Linux To Run Sherwin-Williams Cash Registers

oilfieldtrash writes "According to this news article on Yahoo!, Sherwin-Williams will upgrade their point-of-sales systems to Linux ... 'Sherwin-Williams Co., the No. 1 U.S. paint maker, plans to convert its computers and cash registers in more than 2,500 stores to the upstart operating system in the next year and has hired International Business Machines Corp.'s services division to do the job.'"

Comments

Not Exactly A Win For Linux

[sputnik73]

This is part of a continuing pattern that I've noticed. The major corporate entites which are embracing Linux aren't normally leaving some variant of Windows behind but instead are dropping Unix. The stranglehold Microsoft has on Office and the problems introduced by switching from Windows to Linux (in terms of a possible inability to access old files) is really hurting Linux in the War against Windows. But what these companies need to realize is that they can convert their old files into plain text files, using the very version of Office which is trying to tie them into an ugprade cycle of doom, using some simple batch scripts. This would be quite a chore, obviously - but in the long run companies would save. I don't know why this solution isn't being offered to companies. From what I understand, many companies are hesitant to drop Windows for this very reason: loss of access to old files. But again, Bill Gates doesn't really lose on this one. Linux gains some but not in the area where I'd like to see it.

Re:Not Exactly A Win For Linux

[autechre]

You've been using Word98, a MacOS product, on your Windows 98 machine? That's pretty cool.

(Microsoft released office 95, 97, and 2000 for Windows. I assume you're using 97.)

The interesting bit is that if you go back far enough, Open/Star Office starts to get better at old Microsoft formats that MS themselves. Word 95 did a _terrible_ job of importing MS Works files...hey! There's that whole argument about "losing old documents." Sing it with me now: "Throw it out the window!"

Also, keep in mind that Office 2000 was the first one to even attempt a backwards-compatible file format. Try to open a Word 97 document in Word 95 and see what you get. So people were forced to upgrade. Maybe 97 added some nice features for some people, but if I'm only writing plain text with some italics, why can't 95 read it anymore?

Personally, I write stuff in Abiword and OpenOffice, and people have no trouble reading it in Word (and vice-versa). So yes, while I prefer to do things in vi, I'm by no means restricted to it.

Re:Not Exactly A Win For Linux

[iabervon]

I think it's great that companies are switching from proprietary UNIX to Linux, because it's an application where they have genreal familiarity with the interface and so forth. Once Linux is a proven technology in their company, they can consider Linux as a replacement for Windows. The places where they are using Windows are places it is not feasible to switch to commercial UNIX. This will give people the opportunity to run the same OS everywhere, since it is not too expensive for the desktop and stable and secure enough for the servers. Once IT is using Linux for the critical systems, they won't want to support Windows as well. Microsoft doesn't lose anything on this deal, but their competition is being replaced with a much tougher competitor.

Furthermore, POS terminals are a market that MS would like to own: the user interface matters and commercial UNIX is impractical (unless the terminals are just thin clients of a single server, which limits the UI possibilities). The fact that companies are chosing Linux as the OS with an interface that's fast, easy to use, and powerful, on cheap hardware, has got to hurt.

Re:Not Exactly A Win For Linux

[cybermage]

But what these companies need to realize is that they can convert their old files into plain text files, using the very version of Office which is trying to tie them into an ugprade cycle of doom, using some simple batch scripts. ... I don't know why this solution isn't being offered to companies.

I've got karma to burn, so here goes...

Converting old files to plain text is an incredibly bad idea. Even if your only talking about .doc files, you need to understand that there is meaning in format. If you cannot take the formatting with you, you're not preserving the meaning. Simple example:

Life of Brian is excellent.
Life of Brian is excellent.

Now, beyond the issue of the simplest kind of old files, consider things like spreadsheets, PowerPoint presentations, Accounting data, etc. Converting these files to plain text will render them useless.

If you want businesses to move to Linux, look back at how we got here. There was a time when nothing was done on computers. Why start? Everyone could use a pencil. All typewriters worked more-or-less the same way. Businesses didn't start using computers because they were cool. They didn't start using them because they were cheaper. They started because computers could do things faster. Computers represented solutions to problems. What your proposing is to make a problem out of a solution. You won't get businesses to agree to problems in order to save money.

If you want to see a mass migration to Linux, here's what you need:

• standard file formats - Linux tools need to open/edit/save Microsoft formats. It is still my hope that Microsoft is forced to cough up their document formats to a standards body as a result of the anti-trust suits.
  
• cloned interfaces - Linux tools need to perform tasks in an identical fashion to their Microsoft counterparts. Corporations will be very reluctant to retrain their entire workforce in exchange for a free OS. The applications need to work the same.
  
• inter-operable OS - provide emulators to run legacy applications. There's a reason why knowledge of Cobol was needed before Y2K: Some old, proprietary applications cost way more to replace than 1000 years of OS upgrades. For many companies, their data is trapped inside computers they don't even understand. Once common applications have turned into black boxes. Make it so they can copy the application and it's inseperable data.
  
• education - Linux needs to be accessible to educators to share with students. Schools, libraries, and colleges all receive generous donations of Wintel computers. Children are taught from an early age that Windows == Computer. They learn their tools under Microsoft's guidance. There is, however, a back door. Community Colleges are chartered to teach what the community asks for. Businesses who've embraced Linux and OSS need to ask their local community college to get their future employees ready. Invite educators to tour your business and sit with your people.
  

Re:Not Exactly A Win For Linux

[Melantha_Bacchae]

Methuseus wrote:

> Get an old (free) version of Staroffice and use it to convert the files.

To what if not text?

> but you have to at least notice that your argument is stupid and
> irrational.

DavidJA wasn't arguing, but was asking perfectly valid questions:

"The question is WHY should I "upgrade" to linux????"

and

"Why would I want to change to an OS where I have to use plain old text for my word processing?"

Instead of getting insulting, why didn't you just simply answer the questions? I'm sure there is more value to Linux than a vague promise that converting all of one's files to some unknown format will somehow "in the end ... save time and money".

I'm also sure that there are a wide variety of file formats for documents to choose from in Linux, and a few word processors that can read MS Word files with a varying degree of success. I don't know about support in Linux for the more advanced features of Word used by businesses: such as mail merge, Word document templates, forms, and VBA scripting. Of course my knowledge of current Linux features is limited to my Zaurus; OS X is my forte.

These are questions that Windows users have that are going to have to be answered if Linux is going to make it on the corporate desktop. Answering honest questions with insults and ridicule is not going to help Linux get there.

For those who want some actual facts on the subject, here's some stuff I found on Google that might help:

http://www.linuxlinks.com/local/business/wordpro ce ssing.shtml
http://www.canadacomputes.com/v3/stor y/1,1017,5413 , 0.html?tag=134&sb=281
http://wwws.sun.com/softwar e/star/staroffice/6.0/

What happens when you embrace and extend Godzilla? Nuclear heartburn!
See "Godzilla 2000" (released in Japan as "Godzilla 2000 Millenium") for details.

However as part of the agreement with IBM....

[b0r0din]

Sherwin-Williams can only sell the color Blue.

What POS software will they run?

[laserjet]

I currently admin a few stores that run a POS (Piece of Sh*t) POS (Point of Sales) program called Microbiz. It runs on Win9x, and it is an unstable piece of junk.

We need to migrate to a new software due to the fact that support will be stopping on our current software within the year. I know there is LinuxPOS, but has anyone tried it? We need a full featured POS app for a small/medium size business.

Things like this give me much hope, as I have always thought that Linux is the ideal point of sales software: it is stable, can be no frills, has good user access control, and the network and remote admin can be made easy.

Linux, while it may not be the most used for gaming and multimedia, may have a niche in the POS market. In my view, it would be the perfect OS for the retail environenment.

Re:What POS software will they run?

[bovinewasteproduct]

If you think writing a POS is sytem that simple go for it! I've been involved with POS since 1990 (My dad co-owned one of two POS scanning companies in Houston from 1987 to 1995, I was his lead PC tech from 1990 to 1993) and I can tell you it ain't that easy. Sure, if all you want is a basic cash register it's not too hard, but when you get into scanning it gets just a little bit harder.:)

And a web based system will NOT cut it either. You'll need an X app to compeate with the windows versions out there. Plus you'll have to write drivers for the printers, scanners (those that don't have a keyboard wedge available), scales, cash drawers, customer keyboards and the other things people hook up to a POS system.

Been there, done that, DID NOT WANT THE T-SHIRT!

BWP

P.S. This is just retail, when you get into hospitality systems (ie selling food), it gets even worse!

Where Linux can really shine...

[fmaxwell]

Embedded GUI systems is an area where Linux can shine. The lack of a consistent UI between general-purpose Linux software packages and the sometimes-problematic configuration and administration is simply not an issue in a dedicated machine like a point-of-sale terminal. I expect Microsoft to lose a lot of sales in that arena.

That's how it starts. Not on the desktop.

[crovira]

I hadn't even thought of cash registers and other point-of-sale systems but it figures. They need utter reliability and 100% up-time.

There is no way anybody is going to trust the collection or the handling of cash or credit card transactions to machines that are as virus prone and crashable as anything M$ puts out.

The PATH system of trains between New York and New Jersey uses some M$ box to display information to riders on iys trains and M$ is prominently displayed in all its glory when the big monitors hanging over the platforms get "Blue Screens of Death." Tens of thousands of people ride the system every day. That's GREAT advertising for M$. -NOT!

I wish somebody would replace these with some Linux servers so we riders could get systems we can use and trust.

More details

[acordes]

In addition, the International Business Machines equipment won't use Advanced Micro Designs processors, but will be compatible with Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol. No comment was made by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration or Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing.