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XP Service Pack Does the Impossible
Peyna writes "This article over at C|net discusses the upcoming Microsoft Windows XP service pack, which will contain the normal bug fixes, but more importantly, will make XP more modular, allowing you to override their default products. I assume this means Internet Explorer and possibly some other apps as well."
Windows is actually modular enough to allow people to add their own apps. I'm amazed!
The next thing Microsoft will tell me is that the sky is blue.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Oh, it's still bloated. IE, OE, Messenger, etcetera aren't uninstalled, most likely because XP still depends on their DLLs. It seems like you could accomplish nearly the same thing by deleting the relevant icons from the Start menu...
It sounds to me like the update is really just allowing Windows to be shipped with third party applications links on the desktop. I guess Microsofts packaging tools used to remove these links (which would suck no doubt) and part of SP1 will change that "functionality".
:-)
. asp and take a long hard look at some of the cool shit MS is doing.
As for it making Windows more modular - thats a load of crap. I love how the editors and the submitters around here intentionally embelish just so they can get more pageviews and comments. Oh well I guess they suceeded today...
Whats really going to rock in SP1 for XP is the new Mira technology stuff. If you dont know what that is - I suggest you cruise on over to http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/mira_preview
J
I love idealists not because I am one, but because they make life bearable for pragmatists such as myself.
This SP does NOT make Windows more modular. It simply is a convenient interface to override default applications.
You can't uninstall IE or its libraries - they still will load on startup. What you can do is associate URLs to Moz or whatever.
This can all be done now, just not very conveniently for the average user. All the SP adds is a Control Panel applet to facilitate the association changing.
Marc
From the Cnet article:
Another change seeks to curb about 90 percent of Windows XP piracy. Microsoft introduced Product Activation with the operating system, which uses a numeric key to lock the software to the hardware. But code stolen from a large Microsoft customer allowed rampant illegal Windows XP copying. People using Windows XP with the stolen key will not be able to apply the service pack or any future updates available from Microsoft's Web site.
"Basically we're freezing their computer where it is," Cullinan said. "We're not preventing them from using it, but obviously one of the benefits of having a license is keeping your PC updated."
Not that any /.ers would use pirated software, but interesting nonetheless
According to this article, XP SP1 doesn't remove the apps, it just hides them. One of the FEATURES of the middleware hiding app is that other programs need to register themselves through a new API to be the default web browser or email client or media player etc... My question is will the API documentation have the same "Anti-OpenSource" clauses that MS has grown so fond of recently??? Would this prevent Mozilla from being the default browser??
------- Assumption is the mother of all f$#@ ups.
I'll bet they're holding lotteries in the Federal Pen right now to see who gets to be Bill Gate's boyfriend.
Kinda useful, then, the way he rocks back and forth.
All this does is HIDE the icons for internet explorer and outlook express and windows media player.
I can already do that. Tweak UI does it. And as for file associations, who here thinks that if you accidentally start up windows media player even after this service pack, that it will still redo all your file associations without asking...
This is not a plea of guilt on Microsoft's part, hell this supports their case, they aren't removing anything, they are just hiding it (since of course, windows would stop functioning if you removed it)...
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
Not to mention that it's build 2600 :)
On a serious note, I wonder why they did'nt do this a long time ago (read windows 95, or first anti-trust lawsuit) it seems that it would have saved them a great deal of headaches.
Well, I thought it was quite funny.
But, as several commentators have already pointed out, this isn't really modularising Windows at all - MS have been using the word "hide", which strongly suggests that all their stuff will be installed, it just won't have icons (rather like NetMeeting in XP).
So far so redundant.
But I was interested in the bit at the end of the article where it mentions "freezing" copies that have been activated with a known pirate key. I thought most pirate copies of XP were the corporate edition, that doesn't need activating, and should therefore be indistinguishable from legit copies? Or do they really mean the Product Key, which you enter when you install Windows? In which case, what's to stop you simply changing it in the registry - or, very worst case, simply finding a working Product Key on the net and reinstalling? Still far far easier and cheaper than going out and buying XP.
While this is a welcomed change for Microsoft to open up their operating system and play nice with third party companies, what has Microsoft done with the EULA for SP1? That is the real reason not to use XP -- not because it doesn't play nice with RealAudio. The XP EULA is affront to an individual's right to cpu privacy.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
I think this is horribly irresponsible, because the people who pirate are probably never going to pay for the full product.
So, what, MS is morally obligated to give their software away for free to keep the Internet secure? Please. The problem with Code Red wasn't software pirates, it was (and is) ordinary users who either don't know enough to keep their bug patches up-to-date, or don't care. If pirates were the only reason viruses spread on the Internet, we wouldn't even have a problem.
Don't know why
"The control offers four different choices for changing the Windows desktop and Start Menu: "Computer Manufacturer Configuration," "Microsoft Windows," "Non-Microsoft" and "Custom."
When I change my setting to Non-Microsoft, will microsoft know? If so, will I not get updates for certain things because I am "Non-Microsoft"? Why does the system need to know that the program is "Non-Microsoft"
(I am not trying to flamebait or troll, just stating my worries considering previous Microsoft practices.)
~ kjrose
Please press OK to continue.
This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. No changes will be saved.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
This link contains some API and registry changes that allow OEMs and other vendors to change the default programs from e-mail, JavaVM to media player within Windows.
¦ ©® ±
So, who was that?
Dell?
Well of course.
How else am I, as the operating system, supposed to know that this completely unknown executable you've just stuck on the drive handles foodlewidgets unless you tell me that it handles foodlewidgets?
No conspiracy here people. Move along now...
Cheers,
Ian
It disables further updates/patches for users who run XP with pirated activation numbers. I think this is horribly irresponsible
So let me get this straight, not only should a company be OK with people using pirated copies of their software, they should also offer software updates to those people? Maybe 24-hour tech support too just in case?
I don't run XP and don't plan to. However, they are offering an update to their paying customers, I have NO clue why you think they should cater to people stealing their software too.
Mark
I wonder if the key is in plain text inside of the service pack's binary. Can I change the key that it looks for in the code and have a working copy with a hex editor?
since I refuse to pay for XP, I wouldn't be able to upgrade
If you didn't pay, you shouldn't have anything to upgrade in the first place. The fact that software should be free doesn't mean that we can refuse to pay companies who want us to. As silly as Microsoft sometimes are, I entirely approve the anti-piracy part of this.
Guilt? There is no guilt. In an attempt show good faith efforts being made, Microsoft will start modularizing their OS.
Soon, spurred by the concept of modularity, they will make the jump to encapsulation. Further moved by the benefits this produces, they will convert all Microsoft codebases to Visual C++.
After the massive outcry from all the people who really hate C++ because few things need the OOP that C++ gives you (and b/c Microsoft's default OS install will have bloated to 2GB) Microsoft will slowly convert everything over to C#, and the entire operating system will then be based on .Net.
Spurred on by this, Microsoft will then drop the current licensing scheme, and offer operating systems as .Net service only - .Net boot loaders will be free.
Soon, licensing will be directly attached to your .Net Passport, and corporate logins will be another service of Windows.Net. Companies will pay exorbitant fees to set up XP.Net Networks. No one will need Exchange anymore, as we will all have Hotmail.Net accounts, now a pay-per-message service. There will be surcharges for leaving a company, as your Identity.Net profile will have to be updated.
Microsoft will then make the push to DataCenter.Net - ending support for hard disks in client computers accidentally when a particularly malicious .Net virus they can't seem to kill prevents any fixed drives from functioning on computers with a video card. All companies will be required to license DataCenter.Net on a Hardware.Net compliant server to be able to store any files on fixed media, or they can purchase private space on Microsoft's CentralFile.Net.
The need for bandwidth will increase exponentially, as your will need to download an operating system everytime you log in. To improvie the bandwidth situation at your company, you will be able to license OSProxy.Net. To cope with the ever-increasing need for their own bandwidth, starting up a computer will become a "service" of Microsoft, as will OS updates, even minor builds. To prevent version conflicts, you will only be able to have the most recent version of Windows.Net. If an upgrade occurs and your computer is not capable of handling the new version (which you just paid for by attempting to download it), you will receive a message directing you to both local stores where you can purchase acceptable hardware and computer recycling centers.
Excited by the money Microsoft is making with this method, software vendors will flock to join the Software.Net program, allowing you to pay usage licensing instead of flat rates for almost any program or utility. Many gaming companies will stick with CDs, with increased development for Macintosh and Linux. Sadly, installing from a CD will require a small per-use fee for Add/Remove Programs.Net
On the upside, though. Windows.Net will be completely modular, ensuring that you can use any browser you wish to take the time of loading each time you start up.
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
They're scared because the continuing trial has been going very badly for them. If you follow the daily coverage, just about every day one of their witnesses ended up making a fool of themselves in one way or another. The gov't lawyers on the case have been effective enough in getting information that at one point MS had to cut almost 1/3 of their witnesses to avoid even more debacles.
They still swear they did nothing wrong and still continue to file motions to get the case dismissed summarily, but they're also obviously aware that the case is going not in their favor at the moment. Now I'm not saying the gov't lawyers have been angelic either, they've gotten caught with their share of knuckle slaps by the judge also. But from the perspective I see from the daily coverage, MS is keenly aware that they've been made fools of repeatedly and many of their key witnesses have been discredited. They probably view this as a way to try and stave off more penalties by appearing to have a change of heart (in the face of stiffer penalties, of course) just long enough to get the trial done with.
"Christ what a design! I could eat a handful of iron filings and PUKE a better emergency pump than that!"
The service pack doesn't make Windows modular, it just makes it look like Windows is modular. As many others have said, Microsoft is being pretty smart by making this move. They're trying to blow a hole in the case continued by the nine other states and DC.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I don't believe so because internet explorer IS the interface. The IE DLL's are doing double duty as also core O/S files. It's similar to what would happen if you took the Mozilla shared libraries and built them into the base kernel. Yes, Mozilla will run faster and it will boot up when you start the machine and make it look pretty (it would also probably replace window managers and X). However, you would then be totally unable to uninstall Mozilla because it's now intermingled with the kernel code.
"Christ what a design! I could eat a handful of iron filings and PUKE a better emergency pump than that!"
Can I uninstall Pinball in WinXP? I was going through my Win2k machine deleting junk the other day, and looked at my logs:
"Pinball.exe has been restored to maintain system stability"
Me: ehh.....
XP is the king of all desktops
Linux is the king of all servers
I use XP to browse the web, play games, do my accounting, word processing, coding, etc.
I use Linux as a web, email, ftp, mysql and ssh server.
you have that computer loaded with Longhorn and a dozen or so Mirya tablets, one for each meeting attendee. They can work on materials being shared on one desktop in the same room, ala a whiteboard.
No they can't, because Mira only allows one user per machine at a time. Version 2, which will likely be released in 2004, will allow... 2 users! So no, it will be impossible to do what you discribe using Mira in the forseeable future.
I won't argue that Mira could be something cool, but it is hamstrung by Microsofts absurd user licensing policies. I expect that it will be possible to do what you describe once these devices are hacked to run Linux, but Microsoft has no plans to give you that functionality any time soon.
That said, though, it would be easy enough to create similar functionality using Linux with much cheaper hardware. Those web tablets have been mentioned, which seem to run about half the price of a Mira tablet, or a laptop would also work, and there are some laptops with touchscreens.
In short, there is nothing particularly cool or innovative about Mira. MS is taking something that's simple to do with *nix/X windows and hamstrung it to fit their licensing model.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
As ever, The Register have a good article on this. Has a bit more detail on how the modularisation will work
This post will enter the public domain 70 years after my death, unless Disney buys another extension.
Permitting and even encouraging unpatched machines is a bad policy. Pirated software or not, the machines are a hazard to local networks and the internet as a whole. They serve as launching points and targets for worms and viruses. I believe it is irresponsible to leave these machines on the internet, but it is even more responsible to deny them patches. If not for the sake of their machine, then for the sake of MY machine and my email quota.
This is similar giving fresh needles to drug users. It is not just to protect the users, but also those around them who would otherwise share dirty needles. Is it just helping the pirates (drug users)? No way! It's better for the your network (your adventureous son/daughter), too.
I understand that some people would prefer not to deal with these problems in this way and it's okay to disagree. I'm surprised to see my comment moderated as a troll. Everyone take off your blinders for a second and think a little about the problem.
/ \
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign for peace
x
/ \
Basically the ones with two commas in a row are not hidden by default, but when you delete the word hide you have to also delete a comma, so there's only one comma. Don't ask me why this is what works.
Not suprisingly, for IE, it doesn't actually allow you to remove it, it says "remove access to internet explorer". If you open up the file tree browser thing, ("windows explorer") or just any file folder, and type in a URL in the address field, it just turns into IE.
If Microsoft tries to legally prevent open-source programs from using their helper-app registration APIs, then just write a closed-source proxy app that will register the open-source app as the helper. This is the reverse strategy that some companies try to use to create open-source proxies to dynamically load GPL libraries.
cpeterso
And running X-ray diffractometers and SQUID magnetometers isn't exactly simple text-based stuff either (a proper unix program would be but you know what Windows programmers are like: let's make it all buttons and clicking contrary to the fact that most people just want a freaking cli interface that works and doesn't require you to pick out high resolution objects with the mouse instead of just typing in the exact angles for example).
Although we have PC-Anywhere on there as well (which may be better, I dunno) it means we can connect up to those machines from practically any type of modern platform, ie we don't have to piss about rebooting into Windows just to control a couple of windows on another box. Added to that the fact that you can sling VNC quite happily onto anything else for serving and you're set: the users don't have to learn anything new they still use the same old clients.
You can compare the bandwidth requirements and cpu requirements and blah blah blah but the fact that VNC is here, has been for years and works on any system we use (Unix, Windows, Macs, even RISC OS) makes it a sure fire winner.
Anyway, at least nobody here has been sucker enough to get XP in the first place which must be a goddamn record for this dept (I'm ignoring the pirating scum and the ripped-off copies they had within days, naturally).
Anything else is X, and I don't need to point out the sheer Joy of its network transparency now do I? (Seeing as I'm often doing graphical analysis/editing and sometimes using OpenOffice to look at people's PowerPoint presentations at home via our cable connection without using anything other than my default desktop).
"Don't get mad, get a monkey!"
Windows uses the much smarter RDP protocol for thin-clients. RDP is hooked into the GDI at a low level, and transfers only the minimum information required to clients. Clients can cache images, and expose their local files and devices to the server. There are clients available for every platform imaginable.
The new Mira technology is basically a dumbed-down version of the professional thin-client stuff for home users. Some friends already have similar networks running at home, and I've experimented too. It's amazing to access your full desktop from any computer, anywhere, anytime. Over ADSL it's fast enough to do most typical office tasks like reading email or writing documents.
The Windows XP "Remote Assistance" tool uses RDP, so it can give you an idea of what Mira will be like.