XP Service Pack Does the Impossible

Peyna writes "This article over at C|net discusses the upcoming Microsoft Windows XP service pack, which will contain the normal bug fixes, but more importantly, will make XP more modular, allowing you to override their default products. I assume this means Internet Explorer and possibly some other apps as well."

Comments

Now there's a shock.....

[8127972]

Windows is actually modular enough to allow people to add their own apps. I'm amazed!

The next thing Microsoft will tell me is that the sky is blue.

Still bloated

[TheVidiot]

Oh, it's still bloated. IE, OE, Messenger, etcetera aren't uninstalled, most likely because XP still depends on their DLLs. It seems like you could accomplish nearly the same thing by deleting the relevant icons from the Start menu...

Modular my *ss - Lets talk about Mira :-)

[gamorck]

It sounds to me like the update is really just allowing Windows to be shipped with third party applications links on the desktop. I guess Microsofts packaging tools used to remove these links (which would suck no doubt) and part of SP1 will change that "functionality".

As for it making Windows more modular - thats a load of crap. I love how the editors and the submitters around here intentionally embelish just so they can get more pageviews and comments. Oh well I guess they suceeded today... :-)

Whats really going to rock in SP1 for XP is the new Mira technology stuff. If you dont know what that is - I suggest you cruise on over to http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/mira_preview. asp and take a long hard look at some of the cool shit MS is doing.

J

It isn't anything you can't do now.

[the-banker]

This SP does NOT make Windows more modular. It simply is a convenient interface to override default applications.

You can't uninstall IE or its libraries - they still will load on startup. What you can do is associate URLs to Moz or whatever.

This can all be done now, just not very conveniently for the average user. All the SP adds is a Control Panel applet to facilitate the association changing.

Marc

Could this keep Mozilla OUT???

[dr_funk]

According to this article, XP SP1 doesn't remove the apps, it just hides them. One of the FEATURES of the middleware hiding app is that other programs need to register themselves through a new API to be the default web browser or email client or media player etc... My question is will the API documentation have the same "Anti-OpenSource" clauses that MS has grown so fond of recently??? Would this prevent Mozilla from being the default browser??

what's the big deal?

[Quasar1999]

All this does is HIDE the icons for internet explorer and outlook express and windows media player.

I can already do that. Tweak UI does it. And as for file associations, who here thinks that if you accidentally start up windows media player even after this service pack, that it will still redo all your file associations without asking...

This is not a plea of guilt on Microsoft's part, hell this supports their case, they aren't removing anything, they are just hiding it (since of course, windows would stop functioning if you removed it)...

Re:Please Can you Stop the Headline as Commentary?

[darien]

Well, I thought it was quite funny.

But, as several commentators have already pointed out, this isn't really modularising Windows at all - MS have been using the word "hide", which strongly suggests that all their stuff will be installed, it just won't have icons (rather like NetMeeting in XP).

So far so redundant.

But I was interested in the bit at the end of the article where it mentions "freezing" copies that have been activated with a known pirate key. I thought most pirate copies of XP were the corporate edition, that doesn't need activating, and should therefore be indistinguishable from legit copies? Or do they really mean the Product Key, which you enter when you install Windows? In which case, what's to stop you simply changing it in the registry - or, very worst case, simply finding a working Product Key on the net and reinstalling? Still far far easier and cheaper than going out and buying XP.

What about the EULA?

[toupsie]

While this is a welcomed change for Microsoft to open up their operating system and play nice with third party companies, what has Microsoft done with the EULA for SP1? That is the real reason not to use XP -- not because it doesn't play nice with RealAudio. The XP EULA is affront to an individual's right to cpu privacy.

Register Article is More Interesting

[donnacha]

Don't know why /. chose to use the Cnet story to highlight this subject, there's a more interesting article over at The Reg.

A tad worried

[MarvinMouse]

"The control offers four different choices for changing the Windows desktop and Start Menu: "Computer Manufacturer Configuration," "Microsoft Windows," "Non-Microsoft" and "Custom."

When I change my setting to Non-Microsoft, will microsoft know? If so, will I not get updates for certain things because I am "Non-Microsoft"? Why does the system need to know that the program is "Non-Microsoft"

(I am not trying to flamebait or troll, just stating my worries considering previous Microsoft practices.)

I can see it now..

[MongooseCN]

Please select the default browser you would like to use:

• Netscape

Please press OK to continue.

This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. No changes will be saved.

Re:I can see it now..

[Amazing Quantum Man]

Please select the default browser you would like to use:

Netscape

Please press OK to continue.

This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. No changes will be saved.

No, it'll go:


Please select the default browser you would like to use:

Netscape
Are you sure?

Yes
Are you really sure?

Yes
Microsoft products offer advanced features such as integration into the system. Wouldn't you rather use Internet Explorer instead of Netscape?

Yes
WARNING: Use of non-Microsoft products may lead to instability in your system. Are you sure?

Yes
Setting preferences.

This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. No changes will be saved.

Actually this may apply to Win2K SP3 too...

[frleong]

This link contains some API and registry changes that allow OEMs and other vendors to change the default programs from e-mail, JavaVM to media player within Windows.

So, Who Leaked Their Activation Key?

[donnacha]

...it won't work on a widely-warezed activation key, which as we recall escaped form a large friend of Microsoft beginning with D.

So, who was that?

Dell?

Re:The 3rd parties are still screwed

[mccalli]

3rd party apps will appear as choices if they are coded so that they interface with XP to appear as choices...perhaps even having to use some shared library from MS.

Well of course.

How else am I, as the operating system, supposed to know that this completely unknown executable you've just stuck on the drive handles foodlewidgets unless you tell me that it handles foodlewidgets?

No conspiracy here people. Move along now...

Cheers,
Ian

Re:No more updates for pirates

[Geeyzus]

It disables further updates/patches for users who run XP with pirated activation numbers. I think this is horribly irresponsible

So let me get this straight, not only should a company be OK with people using pirated copies of their software, they should also offer software updates to those people? Maybe 24-hour tech support too just in case?

I don't run XP and don't plan to. However, they are offering an update to their paying customers, I have NO clue why you think they should cater to people stealing their software too.

Mark

You don't pay for it, you don't use it

[fstanchina]

since I refuse to pay for XP, I wouldn't be able to upgrade

If you didn't pay, you shouldn't have anything to upgrade in the first place. The fact that software should be free doesn't mean that we can refuse to pay companies who want us to. As silly as Microsoft sometimes are, I entirely approve the anti-piracy part of this.

Re:You don't pay for it, you don't use it

[Oculus Habent]

I agree.

The simple fact is software, music, art, etc, can only be free if we live in one of two types of societies:

1. Communism/Socialism: If the government has the ability to support people who are furthering the minds of the people/state, then art, music, and software can be free to us, even if we are not free oursleves.

2. Social Democracy: This concept is much harder for Americans than others, as it is contrary to pure capitalism. We would have to support those who make a contribution to our state, but whose contribution should be free. In this model, the government funds artists, music costs are virtually non-existant (you would still have to pay "cost" for physical media, and a "artist tax") and we can get all the music and software for nothing.

The US is a social/capitalist democracy, and very often we are living in the No Man's Land between the two sides.

Sorry for the rant.--
Freedom of Information doesn't mean that information is free.

Re:You don't pay for it, you don't use it

[JamesOfTheDesert]

If the government has the ability to support people who are furthering the minds of the people/state, then art, music, and software can be free to us, even if we are not free oursleves.

Free? Just where does the money to pay for this software come from? Trees? It may be free for certain individuals, but it sure ain't free to others.

In this model, the government funds artists, music costs are virtually non-existant (you would still have to pay "cost" for physical media, and a "artist tax") and we can get all the music and software for nothing.

Again, in "this model", *somebody* has to pay for all this. Shifting costs doesn't make anything free; all this means is some people can make other people pay for things.

Sort of like if I rob you so I can buy new clothing. From my point of view it's free, but you, of course, may think otherwise ....

Re:Biting the hand that pirates it

[edgrale]

Quite useless really, there has been keygens on the net for quite some time now.

They are fighting a battle they cannot win, for each key they disable 10 more will pop up on the net.

(mod me down if you wish, this not intended as a troll/flamebait.)

Re:Biting the hand that pirates it

[Rogerborg]

• Not that any /.ers would use pirated software

Pirated? I dunno about that, I have a shared copy of WinXP Pro, probably with one of "those" keys. I'll pay for it when my refund arrives for the OEM copy of Win98SE that I was forced to pay for on my laptop (now running SuSE), i.e. the 2nd of Never.

If any Microserf are reading, the only reason that I still boot to Windows is to play games. Offer me a stripped down OS that presents an API subset limited to DirectX, OGL and enough of the WinAPI to let me install and start a game, at a reasonable price ($30) without any idiotic licensing or activation crap, and I'll buy it. Short of that, forget it. Every dumbed down "Telletubbies" new Windows version, every curate's egg upgrade, every bluster and threat and waved MicroFist just brings me closer to the point where I'll wipe the Windows partition and take my chance with WineX. When that happens, you lose any chance of getting any more money out of me, ever.

Re:Biting the hand that pirates it

[Anonymous Coward]

Offer me a stripped down OS that presents an API subset limited to DirectX, OGL and enough of the WinAPI to let me install and start a game, at a reasonable price ($30) without any idiotic licensing or activation crap, and I'll buy it.

You just described the XBox.

New XP Activation Key!

[teamhasnoi]

Y0USO-34R3A-P1R4T-1N6B45-T4RD5

How modular?

[archen]

Can I uninstall Pinball in WinXP? I was going through my Win2k machine deleting junk the other day, and looked at my logs:

"Pinball.exe has been restored to maintain system stability"

Me: ehh.....

Re:YOu are too shortsighted

[MrResistor]

you have that computer loaded with Longhorn and a dozen or so Mirya tablets, one for each meeting attendee. They can work on materials being shared on one desktop in the same room, ala a whiteboard.

No they can't, because Mira only allows one user per machine at a time. Version 2, which will likely be released in 2004, will allow... 2 users! So no, it will be impossible to do what you discribe using Mira in the forseeable future.

I won't argue that Mira could be something cool, but it is hamstrung by Microsofts absurd user licensing policies. I expect that it will be possible to do what you describe once these devices are hacked to run Linux, but Microsoft has no plans to give you that functionality any time soon.

That said, though, it would be easy enough to create similar functionality using Linux with much cheaper hardware. Those web tablets have been mentioned, which seem to run about half the price of a Mira tablet, or a laptop would also work, and there are some laptops with touchscreens.

In short, there is nothing particularly cool or innovative about Mira. MS is taking something that's simple to do with *nix/X windows and hamstrung it to fit their licensing model.

Re:VNC has been doing this, and better

[Professor J Frink]

That's odd, we don't have any problem running our hardware control machines across VNC. Ok, on a modem it isn't fun fun fun but on anything better than that it's perfectly acceptable.

And running X-ray diffractometers and SQUID magnetometers isn't exactly simple text-based stuff either (a proper unix program would be but you know what Windows programmers are like: let's make it all buttons and clicking contrary to the fact that most people just want a freaking cli interface that works and doesn't require you to pick out high resolution objects with the mouse instead of just typing in the exact angles for example).

Although we have PC-Anywhere on there as well (which may be better, I dunno) it means we can connect up to those machines from practically any type of modern platform, ie we don't have to piss about rebooting into Windows just to control a couple of windows on another box. Added to that the fact that you can sling VNC quite happily onto anything else for serving and you're set: the users don't have to learn anything new they still use the same old clients.

You can compare the bandwidth requirements and cpu requirements and blah blah blah but the fact that VNC is here, has been for years and works on any system we use (Unix, Windows, Macs, even RISC OS) makes it a sure fire winner.

Anyway, at least nobody here has been sucker enough to get XP in the first place which must be a goddamn record for this dept (I'm ignoring the pirating scum and the ripped-off copies they had within days, naturally).

Anything else is X, and I don't need to point out the sheer Joy of its network transparency now do I? (Seeing as I'm often doing graphical analysis/editing and sometimes using OpenOffice to look at people's PowerPoint presentations at home via our cable connection without using anything other than my default desktop).