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An Offer Tivo Owners Can't Refuse
An anonymous reader pointed us to this little tidbit. The BBC paid Tivo (company slogan: "TV Your Way") to force owners' boxes to record some new program they wanted to push, which looks incredibly exciting. UK Tivo owners seem a little upset.
And what's stopping stations from turning off the commercial-skipping feature through similar bribery?
Oh that already happened years ago. NBC, CBS, and ABC are all early investors in Tivo, the PVR without the 30 second skip. (OK, it has a 30 second skip, but you have to "enable" that feature, it isn't on by default).
The "little upset" link wasn't; it just explained that the program "does not take up any of your recording capacity - it is stored in a seperate reserved space."
If it doesn't take up space, and will lower the overall cost of the unit by allowing another revenue stream for Tivo, and you don't have to watch it, and it doesn't interfere with the rest of your programming, why is this news? Am I missing something?
No but these "special feature" programs take up space.
... I don't want that happening to my Tivo, especially considering how much I paid for my box AND the monthly fee.
My US Tivo had a 30 minute BMW commercial in the Showcases that I didn't know about. It sat there for a long time until I realized that I was getting shorted 30 minutes. (I record as much as I can).
Next thing you know, a good idea (Tivo), gets consumed by a bad idea (forced infomercials) and it sucks for everyone.
Look at how much of the web is now unusable due to lack of content and nothing but advertising. Usenet used to be one of the best sources of information, now its one big spamhole
I stopped watching TV because the ads enraged me. Ditto radio. I've been keeping an eye on the Tivo on the off chance television ever becomes economical (eg- I can get sci fi without having to get 37 other channels I never watch). And now they're essentially spamming their userbase- what next? A hard drive full of Golden Girls and The O'Reily factor?
:P
Fuck that- if I want unrequested, unwanted bullshit in my space, I'll go check my hotmail account. The fact that Tivo is doing this violates the basic concept behind why the boxes are selling at all.
If TV were actually configurable, it would be a simple matter of dropping the offending network from your selection of channels. But it's not- users have the illusion of choice. Much like cokeheads- you can have it cut with ephedrine or vitamin b. Or asprin. But you can't have it pure.
Screw these guys, I'm going home.
PS - A huge clue grenade gets lobbed to whoever believes that
It does not take up any of your recording capacity - it is stored in a seperate reserved space. You still have 40 hours of recording capacity on a standard TiVo.
Why isn't that space mine to begin with?
Following the link posted in the article about TiVo users being upset has a list of 'known facts' about TiVo Enhanced Content.
> If you have another programme scheduled at the time the promo airs, then TiVo will record your scheduled programme and will not record the promo. Your own scheduled recordings always take priority.
> If you are watching Live TV at the time TiVo will ask permission to change channels to record the Promo. Note if you are not around to say no TiVo will go ahead. I *think* the buffer up to the time of the channel change will still be available.
As a TiVo user, this really doesn't bother me. It is a possible alternate source of revenue for TiVo, which is always good. I've noticed them before (as other US TiVO users) and I've watched a few.
As long as it's available as an option only on the front menu, doesn't take up my recording space (they use some 'reserved space'), it doesn't force me to watch it, and it doesn't otherwise restrain my usual TiVo use, I really don't think it's a problem at all.
The TiVo is a tool that changes your TV watching habits in such a way that you may not be exposed to new shows as a normal commercial-watching viewer. While it (on principle) bothers me that it ignores parental controls, especially for a show with bad language, this is a tolerable way of letting you know about new shows.
My question would be does it keep you from recording something else in that time slot?
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
Actually... the funny thing is that mine doesn't have a power switch. :-P
And seriously, is it that bad?
Reading the links tells you that it doesn't (or shouldn't) interfere with anything that you are watching or recording. One of the features i like the most about my TiVo is that it's always trying to record something even if i haven't set that time aside for something else. I can't see how it's a bad thing that TiVo gets more money to record something when the unit would otherwise be doing nothing else.
I mean come on slashdot drones, TiVo needs to make SOME amount of money to keep themselves alive.
Because Tivo wants to make a profit and not be sued out of existence by TV companies. The description in the article sounds like a non-disruptive way of letting TV folks promote their shows.
Anyways, you paid for 40 hours of recording time. You have 40 hours of recording time. Tivo doesn't owe you every inch of recording media in the box.
It sounds like a better plan than death by legislation.
(side thought: Maybe in the future shows won't battle for a good time slot, they'll battle for Tivo priority. 200k for a two-day guaranteed time span on everyone's tivo, 25k for a 4 hour span, etc.)
you could simply make sure your kids don't watch it. i mean, if it is on BBC, i don't imagine that you have your parental controls blocking that channel to begin with, and they could just sit down and watch it when it was live. how is that different? simply monitor what your children are watching... jeez. people make me sick. wanting the government or electronic boxes to parent thier children for them.
What is the big deal? Doesn't your Tivo already proactively record shows without your permission, shows that it "predicts" you might like? Nobody complains about Tivo doing that. Tivo and the BBC are now just influencing that existing algorithm (with cash money). This stupid BBC show is now just another OPTION on a list of choices. It's not like you are forced to watch this show against your will. This is not A Clockwork Orange or something..
cpeterso
File under "High-tech product obeys manufacturer over owner."
You laugh now, but wait until your flying car automatically lands at a McDonalds every hour during any long trip. A feature they didn't tell you about when you bought it. In fact, one that didn't exist when you bought it...
Thank you, I'll take the product that you can't reprogram remotely. The one that works for me.
Argument 1: "It's coming from reserved space, so it doesn't affect your existing programs."
What if I have a 15 or 30 hour box (at basic), and some event (vacation) means I'm having trouble juggling just a few things I wanted -- in the meantime, space is "reserved" that could have been provided for my use (remember me, the one who bought the product for usability's sake).
In that sense, the reserved space affects my regular space, and that of anybody who purchases the box, because only so much "space" fits in a given box. If it's about making for both happy users and a healthy company, the money from people who prefer the "extra" space rather than reserved space may outweigh the (payoffs from networks minus lost subscriptions from angry users).
Argument 2: It doesn't pre-empt live television.
Mostly wrong, though it doesn't seem to pre-empt scheduled recordings. I often pause a baseball game and leave the room to take a phone call, for example, or leave it playing knowing that I can go back 20 minutes or so to catch Barry Bonds' record-tying home run.
On 60 seconds notice, a forced program changes the channel and loses the previous program buffer. Goodbye, user option to review what they might have missed, all because they weren't on guard with the remote to respond "yessir" or "nosir" to the equipment they own. Remember that is one of the prime selling points of the product, at the moment.
For you non-Euro-resident readers, the BBC already collects a gigantic toll from the population at large ('the license fee'; currently UKP112 for a colour TV ) for its budget, in exchange for what is generally regarded as among the best programming anywhere. While I have supported the BBC strongly in the past, this kind of activity essentially is extremely unethical for a number of reasons:
The BBC, through its joint ventures in the UK (particularly publishing and radio), North America and elsewhere, is already blurring the distinction between public monies (the license fee) and private finance to an unhealthy level. With this latest effort they lose a little more of their hard-earned reputation of objectivity in pursuit of coin, and more importantly, give the British public less of a reason in future to pay the fees.
Regardless of however small the payment was in the grand scheme of things, this was wrong. To think of it another way, 100% of the British television public paid for only a small subset of viewers (less than 1%?) to receive something that they probably didn't want. How is that acceptable?
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Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
You still have control of the hard drive. If you want to reformat it and blow away the operating system on them, you are completely able to do that. The Tivo just becomes a little less useful afterward.
If you don't pay for the Tivo service or just don't hook your Tivo up to the phone line, then you can stop your Tivo from downloading this content that you don't want on your hard drive. But then you won't get the cool features you bought the Tivo for which is automated recording of shows, guide data, etc.
His point is that if you pay for the Tivo service, you get the Tivo service and all the things that come along with it. Just like you pay for Internet service. If your ISP decides not to route port 80 traffic to you, they have that right, and you have the right to cancel your service if you don't agree with it.
First, no one's forcing you to watch the show. It simply appears as an option on the menu. You can ignore it as you wish. It's far less intrusive than the average banner ad; and ads don't stop you from viewing Slashdot. It's even less intrusive than Google text ads!
Second, the extra space on the Tivo was not something that you knew about when you bought it, and it did not affect your purchase of the Tivo in the least. When you buy one, you know that it's a sealed box. If someone wants to make a PVR libre, I'd be glad, but Tivo reserving a very small amount of space is completely normal for a corporation.
Finally, a number of people think it's bad that the program had "bad language" but that it overrode "parental controls". Talk about control. What gives you the right to decide what your children can watch? Tivo has a program downloaded to your box... but it doesn't override your schedule... but it doesn't record if you ask it not to... but it doesn't force you to watch it... but it doesn't take up any space... And you're outraged! But your children are being explicitly denied the right to watch a TV show, solely because it has some "bad language" (which isn't bad - would you rather your kids fist- or gun-fighting than swearing?), is completely fine. Listen to yourselves!
His point is that if you pay for the Tivo service, you get the Tivo service and all the things that come along with it. Just like you pay for Internet service. If your ISP decides not to route port 80 traffic to you, they have that right, and you have the right to cancel your service if you don't agree with it.
Any service you are paying for covers only what data is sent from Tivo to you (as with your ISP). If Tivo uses the services to make the machine do things that are not in your interest, then they are using it to control you.
Claiming Tivo filters channels when you're still paying for them- something another poster mentioned- is sticking your head in the sand. With the web tools available these days, I can simply choose how militant I am about control of the ads I recieve. By default, I disallow pop-ups entirely. Flash is a waste of bandwidth, so those wind up being dropped as well. I honestly don't mind banner ads- some of them are interesting. At least on the sites I go to. I could argue one angle of "these cats need the revenue", but the fact is, some of the sites I visit plug things that I wouldn't have found out about if it wasn't for their banner ads. This is nice, and the potential enjoyment factor is worth the possible hassle.
On the other hand, I have yet to be exposed to a blasting, annoying as hell TV or radio ad that caters to something I'm interested in. I have zero use for cadillacs, depends, preperation H or beer. I could give a shit about the X-fest. It bugs me that I know about these things when I have no need or use for them. But then, I'm the sort of person that actually figures out what I need and then looks for a solution, rather than eagerly being led around by the nose.
The internet advertising environment can be configured by an educated end user on a more or less global level. The television and radio environments cannot- sure, you can flip around, but if you haven't noticed, most networks seem time things so when you flip, you hit another commercial break. You can take or tivo and fast forward or drop commercials, but you're still expending effort to do so. Not an effective solution.
On top of all of that, tv and radio are passive. The net is much more interactive, and I'll take that over the tube any day.