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Opera 6.03 - The Wild Child of Browsers?

IEEE1394 writes: "Ever wondered what other Internet browsers are available outside of Internet Explorer? Opera 6.03 from Opera Software boasts itself on being 'the fastest browser on earth.' Does it really live up to its claim of being unique and being fast? Is it the wild child of the browser family and can it ever surpass Internet Explorer as the browser of choice? Let's find out." Funny, IE isn't my browser of choice ...

22 of 579 comments (clear)

  1. IE often HAS to be your browser of choice by duffbeer703 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many banking and other websites do not render properly with Mozilla, and I'm never going to pay for a browser like Opera.

    So unfortunately, sometimes you must choose IE.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    1. Re:IE often HAS to be your browser of choice by bsartist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If I'm designing web sites, I design for IE.

      They you're part of the problem.

      --
      Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
    2. Re:IE often HAS to be your browser of choice by rknop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      c'mon man. I use Mozilla at home quite a lot and I design web sites (although I do more back end stuff than anything), but let's face the reality of the situation: If I'm designing web sites, I design for IE. Usually, my pages are fairly simple and work just fine in Moz, opera, etc, but I ain't waisting my time making scripts cross-browser compatible, etc, because those folks paying the bill don't care and the customer is always right.

      You are part of the problem. You should be designing web pages to the standards, not to IE. Design to the standards, the site will work with IE. Your employer's happy, your customers (even those who don't use IE, or wouldn't if you weren't so ignorant in your web design choices) will be happy, and nobody even has to know that you aren't writing IE-specific stuff.

      Given that there are web standards out there, and that IE implements them, I just don't undersatnd this attitude that you must design for IE. What's the problem with you people? Sheesh.

      -Rob

    3. Re:IE often HAS to be your browser of choice by rknop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He's right, you know. Banks and large corporations don't give a stuff. It's not viable.

      I simply do not understand this argument.

      Write standards compliant stuff, it works with IE. (OK, don't push the standards to the edge; use two-year old standards.) Nobody is losing here. The vast majority of your customer base has the functionality it wants. And those other 3% of your customers now also have the functionality they want. What's the problem here? What's the sacrifice? What's the tradeoff? Everybody wins. Your bank administrators paying for the web design are in better shape, because not only does it work for the 96% of their customers who use IE, it works for the 99% of their customers who use any of the relatively up-to-date web browsers. It's better for the bank. Why, why, why is there any rational argument for writing IE-speicific code, other than laziness and ignorance, given this?

      -Rob

    4. Re:IE often HAS to be your browser of choice by Pfhreakaz0id · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Look, I design HTML so it renders in anything, no problem. But the standards are ridiculous and have no bearing on the real world. W3 validators say I can't put form elements in tables!!!! Hello? What do I tell employers/clients when their forms look like sh*t!? Sorry, but even though Netscape, Mozzilla and IE all render this page just fine, It doesn't conform to standards and my ethics won't allow me to code it?

      But when I'm doing heavy Javascripting/DOM stuff, I ain't taking the trouble to write several versions of scripts. I always present the option of netscape/mozilla compatibilty, but when they use nothing but IE, they don't care. I'm working on an intranet project right now that has some government employees on Sun's. I said "we need to take the extra time to make this netscape compatible", the team lead says "oh, they have IE on termnial server, we're not bothering!".

    5. Re:IE often HAS to be your browser of choice by (void*) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It only takes extra time if you design with no forethought.

    6. Re:IE often HAS to be your browser of choice by Pfhreakaz0id · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ok, now that I've been modded out of existence and insulted, I'll go over this again, in slightly more forceful language.

      Despite the comment by a poster below, I'm "reasonably intelligent" (and have the IQ test to prove it) and certainly not ignorant of standards and fully capable of writing standards-compliant HTML/Javascript. But I don't. Here's the reason why folks: BECAUSE I'M NOT THE ONE PAYING THE BILL! I don't write web pages for me, I write them for folks who pay for them. If I want to do something for fun, or enjoyment, I'll play hockey or do some woodworking or play poker, but I program for a living. To house and feed my family.

      You CANNOT tell me it does not cost more to develop multiple versions of scripts to do interactive content. And any monkey with any number of graphical editors can knock out static HTML. You're only paid for dynamic, server side code in something and client-side scripting. It takes more development hours ($) to develop multiple versions of scripts, and more QA test machines and personnel ($) to test those pages on multiple platforms and more support personnel ($) to support those multiple platforms. Thus, many, many folks footing the bill for all this lovely web development chose not to incur those extra costs to support the 3-4% of the user base that doesn't use IE (those were the last numbers I saw). For an intranet/extranet application (where most of my work is done these days), that number declines to less than 1% in most cases.

      I guess you could call me immoral for working for such "heavens", but I don't consider browser/computer/OS/hardware platform choice a moral issue. Sue me.

    7. Re:IE often HAS to be your browser of choice by NanoGator · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "If I'm designing web sites, I design for IE.

      They you're part of the problem. "


      I got news for ya: The people who decide what browsers to support aren't the people who program it. They make decisions like this:

      "I hear that Internet Explorer has 98% of the market share."

      "Oh, that means we can support IE, and then we can skip worrying about other browsers and save time and money!"

      "Exactly."

      You really want to talk to the Pointy Haired Boss, it's his decision.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    8. Re:IE often HAS to be your browser of choice by bsartist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It takes more development hours ($) to develop multiple versions of scripts, and more QA test machines and personnel ($) to test those pages on multiple platforms and more support personnel ($) to support those multiple platforms.

      That's precisely why standards exist. Why should anyone waste money and time developing multiple browser-specific versions of a site, when a single standards-based site that supports all browsers will work just as well, for far less money?

      I don't consider browser/computer/OS/hardware platform choice a moral issue.

      Are you trying to tell me that when you create pages that say "you're using the wrong browser, go away," you're not making a value judgment? Rubbish. If you were truly neutral on the issue, you'd let your users decide for themselves what browser to use, instead of expecting them to use your own personal favorite.

      Sue me.

      If a blind user finds your site to be inaccessible to his screen reader, and decided to take issue with it, that is a possibility. Criminal prosecution is another possibility; in the US at least, discrimination against the handicapped is a crime.

      --
      Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
    9. Re:IE often HAS to be your browser of choice by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmmm... last time I checked, IE did support the same W3C DOM that Mozilla/Netscape does. So why should supporting both require multiple versions of scripts? What's done on the server-side is invisible to the client, so that's not an issue; and if you write DOM-compliant code it will still work on IE with no loss of functionality. I haven't seen anything worthwhile that the IE-specific code can do, except for infect boxes.

      FYI I also code for a living, but (apparently unlike you) I have access to the various server logs. Last I checked (a few days ago) the split was running 75/25 to 80/20 - and locking out 1/5 of your userbase is NOT smart.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    10. Re:IE often HAS to be your browser of choice by gol64738 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You CANNOT tell me it does not cost more to develop multiple versions of scripts to do interactive content.

      multiple versions? what for? this is the reason why the World Wide Web Consortium exists at all! develop your scripts to written standards, and you'll only have to do one version that will work for every platform.

      haven't you noticed that web sites are becoming more and more standards compliant? if you keep scripting for an IE only audience, then soon your web sites will be considered 'broken' and your employer (or customers) will be asking you why their website looks/acts screwy.

      trust me, save yourself time and effort now and base your code on existing, internationally recognized standards. the money is the same, and you'll be doing both customers and future developers a favor.

  2. Advertisment? by W2k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I was expecting to see "This article sponsored by Opera Software" at the end of that posting. Has Slashdot started taking cash for posting articles that are little more than advertisments for a particular product? Or in this case, a link to a review which is as far from "news for nerds" and "stuff that matters" as can be?

    In either case, I read the review, and it beautifully disproves Opera Software's claim of making "the world's fastest web browser", with load times varying between 50% and 300% of IE's on the pages that were tested. Opera also displays ads unless you register it (for $39!) -- why bother when it doesn't offer any major advantages over another non-MS browser like Mozilla?

    It should also be noted that Opera has had some Microsoft-esque security holes in the past ...

    --
    Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.
  3. What is Opera's competitive edge? by Orangedog_on_crack · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If any "alternative" browser is going to succeed it has to have some kind of edge over IE. This is only MY opinion, but unless Opera, Mozilla and the like are going to be a serious contender for the MS desktop, it will have to offer some more than just being faster. MS has a BIG advantage....IE is free (even though there is the "making a deal with the Devil factor involved with IE).

    I don't know too much about Opera, but are there any other "features" that it offers that IE doesn't, or at least doesn't do as well as Opera? I like competition in any market, but if it doesn't have anything substantially additional with it that IE doesn't, then I can see it gaining much market share, especially since one has to pay for the ad-free version? Maybe someone here can shed some light in this.

    1. Re:What is Opera's competitive edge? by xtremex · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why can't you just install Opera on your work pc? Or do you have one of those jobs where the users can't install anything on their pcs? (That in my opinion sucks. Since in my job, I work better with my own tools. You can't tell a carpenter to use certain tools that YOU want him to use..makes no sense to me.)

      --
      If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
  4. Features by eddy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, I use Opera because of the features. I like the MDI. I cannot live without the ability to go back/forward using only the mousebuttons ("gestures"). I can press ctrl+g to quickly apply my own stylesheet to the page, as can I disable image-loading with a click. I can use the zoom-control to get up close when I need to (which happens), I can press F12 and quickly enable and disable javascript/plugins/popups. I can press CTRL+J to get a window with all the links on a page. I can enable automatic periodical refresh, I maximize frames with the click of a button. When exploring large link-collections I can use the special 'create linked window' to browse efficiently without having to open/close lot's of windows.

    I'm sure mozilla can do much of this, but IE? IE is - as far as I'm concerend - a joke as far as features go.

    Opera is all about the small things which makes my browsing fun and efficient. That said, I have a long list of things I wished it could do, some of them from IE (I want a page 'properties' function)

    --
    Belief is the currency of delusion.
  5. Re:must be ... by xtermz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hmm... I guess car magazines shouldnt run reviews of new models, because anybody interested in those new cars already test drove them... and Money magazine shouldnt give any stock advice, because people who buy stocks already know what to buy...
    ...
    ..
    now do you see how flawed your argument is? So what if "everyone slightly interested in opera that reads /. already tested it ", believe it or not there actually are people who have _never used it_.. ...

    --


    I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
  6. Re:of course it's not your browser of choice, but. by barzok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, it's such a terrible burden to have to write HTML-compliant code, instead of having IE render just about anything you throw at it.

    Write correct, clean code and you won't have any trouble with Mozilla-based browsers.

  7. Mouse gestures... Annoying?! by levik · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The comment on the reviewer's part about the mouse gestures being annoying pretty much invalidated the whole review for me. I am using Opera full time, and find genstures indispensible to the extent that when forced to use IE/K-Meleon due to Opera's rendering issues, I constantly find myself trying to "go back" by right-dragging the mouse to the left.

    That somebody who took it upon themself to review the product did not wish to take the time to familiarize themself with one of its biggest features speaks to a certain lack of proffessinalism... That aside though, I don't see how the gestures can be considered a "con". Even with them turned on, I find it difficult to perform one accidentally (I myself only use the back and forth navigation and never run into a problem of triggering another gesture accidentally). Finally, since there's an option to turn them off, I really fail to see how, iven if they are "annoying", their inclusion can be held against the browser.

    I think that it's by providing these features that Opera can succeed in the marketplace alongside of IE. One great feature would be trying to predict the next link you will click and pre-loading that page. (Like for multi-page articles).

    --
    Ñ'
  8. Frontend designer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I I am a front end graphic designer/coder, which menas I design what people see and use, I get dirty with some javascript and asp when necessary but my company has backend/plumbing people to take care of the database and heavy coding needed. As a frontend designer I use Dreamweaver to rapidly create a page the way I want it too look and quickly switch to code view to tweak/ change things and go back to layout the rest of the page. I can code by hand but when its done so much quicker visually I dont need to do it by hand. Thus Dreamweaver/FrontPage/Interdev etc. need to be the ones creating the inital code to be crossbrowswer. I should'nt have to remember what one browser does versus another and on which version it does and doesnt do it. Thats just ridiculous. The standards are a base from which to jump off from and it seems that IE has made quicker strides in developing what people want to see unlike Netscape or others.

    Slashdot is a biased community of very talented,smart techno savvy individuals. Most internet users are not. Most users are Windows/IE platform based not Linux/Mozilla or otherwise.

    With the staggering amount of sites out there and the number of designer/developers and platform combinations and developemtn tools. Expect diversity. Expect it too be different and you won't be dissappointed.

    Flame On!

  9. Re:Unfortunately... by mike77 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    peoples, you're making a slight error in your statements.

    Browser of choice = your top choice of what you want to work in.

    Browser of necessity = what you're forced to work with even if you don't want to.

    slight difference, but it is an important one.

    mike

    --

    --Keeping the flame wars alive, one post at a time

  10. Re:Free opera is loaded with spyware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    and if you read Operas own docs properly you would see "without a uniqueID it would not be possible to sell adverts" which is a GUID therefore identifying specifically your machine, compromising your privacy

    also while cexx do mention its cleaned up its act, further reading mentions it still hides critical function calls from the user and cexx continues to call it "Cydoor spyware"

    so quit trying to convince people otherwise without the full facts instead of just the ones you choose to believe

    no smoke without fire

  11. Re:Free opera is loaded with spyware by splitfyre · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There is an option within the preferences section in Opera that allows you to specify what type of advertising you want it to serve up. However you can also choose to refuse those ad popups as well from the File menu in Opera.