Good for Transmeta, but.....
by
idiotnot
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Despite all the recent hype about tablets, I really can't forsee them selling well. I mean, wasn't this tried before? This is especially true when most of the ones I've seen reviewed cost more than a notebook (~$3000). Yeah, you can hang it on a wall, but is the extra grand really worth being able to type on a virtual keyboard with a stylus?
"It's a drug that gives worms to ex-girlfriends!"
Exactly.
Re:Good for Transmeta, but.....
by
nullard
·
· Score: 3, Informative
My tablet PC cost $150 (used) and runs Linux just fine. It may not be very powerful (32mb ram, 2gb hd, 120mhz P1 iirc), but it is a great little machine. Ir's a Fujitsu Stylistic 1200.
I can work on cgi scripting or c programs. I can take notes in class with it. It's great for playing mp3s -- through the speaker or headphones, or miniplug-tape adapter. I can even use it to andmininster my server from the road (pcmcia e-net card).
It even runs Xwindows using a wm designed for PDAs.
Tablets have uses. Mine is cheaper and more powerful than a PDA or an MP3 player, although it it slightly less portable. Plus it gives me an excuse to practice writing pen drivers for Linux.
--
t'nera semordnilap
Re:Good for Transmeta, but.....
by
Fnord
·
· Score: 2
On a similar note, I've always wanted one of these things just to act as a handheld Xterminal for my desktop machine. I think for this purpose processors like the crusoe are ideal.
new pricing structure
by
QuantumRiff
·
· Score: 5, Funny
HP anounced today the the tablet device will sell for $50. Replacement screens, which are good for 1000 page views can be purchased for $85, or $100 for 1500 page views.
--
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Linux drivers yet?
by
Dark+Paladin
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Anybody know if we'll need special drivers to put Linux on this thing (probably the biggest thing is a handwriting recognition program, of course)?
I'm assuming we'll be force fed Windows XP, but with a Transmeta processor, you can always hope.
Re:Linux drivers yet?
by
benploni
·
· Score: 4, Informative
The people at www.handhelds.rg have really advanced the state of the art in linux's suitability for tablets. I run Linux + X11 on my Fujistsu pen tablets with great successs. As for handwriting recognition, there is xstroke and xmerlin, among others. xstroke now uses the RENDER extension to get fulllscreen translucent "ink" as youw write over any window.
It's really slick.
So, let me get this straight...
by
eaeolian
·
· Score: 2, Troll
...we now have Micro$oft to thank not only for bloated operating systems, but also bloated Newtons?
Seriously, isn't this whole idea pretty much useless without handwriting recognition? I've seen nothing to suggest that anyone has that working yet...
Re:So, let me get this straight...
by
tswinzig
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Seriously, isn't this whole idea pretty much useless without handwriting recognition?
No, a tablet already has many uses without handwriting recognition. Aside from the normal PC programs that can be used, you have a great form-factor for a nice webpad, a nice ebook.
I've seen nothing to suggest that anyone has that working yet...
Microsoft is well on the way to introducing hand-writing recognition in one of their upcoming OS's, which is one reason they are rolling these out now. I think there is more information about this technology on research.microsoft.com.
--
"And like that... he's gone."
Re:So, let me get this straight...
by
Gaijin42
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· Score: 2
The transcriber handwriting recognition on the pcoketpc works great. I use it as a primary means of input.
Handwriting has worked ever since rosetta back on the newtons.
And worst case, you always have grafitti.
Re:So, let me get this straight...
by
stubear
·
· Score: 2
Actually Microsoft has already demonstrated these Tablet PCs with handwriting recognition and they are in the process of rolling handwriting recognition into a future release of Windows XP designed for the Tablet PC named, accordingly, Windows XP Tablet PC Edition. Not to mention that Microsoft already has some solid handwriting recognition software in their PocketPC devices as well as handwriting recognition in Office XP.
You also asked how useful these devices could be without handwriting recognition? I'm a graphic designer and I am anxiously awaiting the time when I can buy one of these so I can sketch away from my desktop workstation. I want to be able to see what I am drawing, unlike the experience I have with my Wacom Intuous tablet. While the Intuous is great, I feel disconnected from what I'm drawing. I could either buy one of these devices or the new Wacom Cintiq but then I couldn't draw sitting in the park on a nice day like today.
I also read. I would like to be able to take an MS eBook or Adobe Acrobat Reader book along with me on the public transportation here in Boston. I would like to read in bed without having to turn on a light behind me or use one of those crappy book lights. Currently my PocketPC fills in for this purpose but it would be nice to have a larger screen and a laptop computer just doesn't interest me; not with these Tablet PCs around the corner.
Re:So, let me get this straight...
by
Lumpy
·
· Score: 2
MS has had handwriting recognition cince Windows 3.11.
In fact I have a copy right here.. windows 3.11 for Pen computing.
it works better than the palm's handwriting recognition. and is from 1989.
so microsoft doesnt have to work on it, it's already there.
Why is it that everyone on slashdot these days don't use question marks when asking questions. I've seen them in books and in magazines and have found them to be rather useful at worst. I think I'll prefer a question mark to a period when asking a question. Maybe, I won't look as dumb, but at least I won't have to go through the agrivation of creating mock paragraphs when at work.
Seriously though, when done well, touch screens can be great. Sorry, but Palms are overpriced electronic organizers, and not designed to be used as 'real' computers. If "casio pocket computers" run PocketPC there are a few programs, like CalliGrapher, that would make it great to use, but since you're identifying it by it's brand name rather than something useful like the platform, I can't be sure.
With good real handwriting recognition (not graffiti, or some other character recognition scheme)- like CalliGrapher (for PocketPC), PenOffice (for Windoze), or the Newton OS 2.x HWR one can enter text quite fast. I can easily enter 45+ WPM on my Newton. I could probably get faster than that on my iPAQ running CalliGrapher 6 if the screen weren't so damn small.
But then again, I wouldn't pay a $1000 premium for something as bulky as this, no doubt without decent software to manage input. I suppose you could install PenOffice on top of Windows XP, which is what this no doubt comes preloaded with. However, there is no real HWR for Linux, which is disapointing.
--
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
All the best for Transmeta
by
jukal
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
I really hope they (and some others) can make the breakthrough, the processor market really needs some fresh new competition. Even though AMD and Intel are "battling", the fight is still, despite of the press - done in Intel's universe. See this article from turn of 2001.
But, when we see real pressure from multiple directions, we might see these companies develop something truly revolutionary, currently they don't have to - they just don't. A market situation in which Intel would have only around 40% slice, would nurture much more speedy development.
Pictures here?
by
tswinzig
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Maybe I'm stupid, but for anything that a tablet would be useful for...what do you need all of that power for?
A little offtopic, but I'd be really happy if someone would come out with a cheap, lcd, even if text only, telnet 'terminal' that could plug right into the network, not even wireless, for $50 DHCP or static addressing, DNS, telnet, nothing else. I'd buy a few of those. Fast power-on would be the key. Many times I want to just check the mail on my main server at home without having to power up the main box. I can use the palm pilot, sure, but the limited display and lack of keyboard are a PITA.
If you can produce a 1ghz processor cheaply, why bitch about it being too powerful? You can run advanced handwriting recognition and speech recognition software. You might be able to make games. The stylus could make sniping an even more intuitive activity.
Look at the opportunities, man.
--
Stop the brainwash
Re:Another touch screen?
by
killmenow
·
· Score: 2
...identifying it by it's brand name...
Why is it that everyone on slashdork that complains about other people's spelling, grammar, and usage of punctuation--or lack thereof--still can't figure out how to use a goddamn apostrophe?
Still way out of most people's reach
by
jbarr
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· Score: 3, Insightful
That's the problem with these types of devices--they are still way out of reach of most users pricewise. Granted, the articles don't mention price, but you can be sure that based on similar products available today, it will probably sell for between $1500 and $2500--way too high for the average user.
All I want is a wireless, tablet-sized device that will allow me to surf the web from anywhere in my house, wirelessly connecting to my LAN, and I would like to see it for below $1000. I don't need Windows XP, I won't be playing games or doing video production on this thing! I just want to surf the web!
-- My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
If you want a tiny Transmeta Computer...
by
gdyas
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
...go for Fujitsu's P-2000 Laptop with a 7-hour high capacity battery, DVDROM, and a wireless LAN card.
IMO, pads do and shall always suck, primarily because of the inherent frailty of an exposed screen. Sure, the screens on notebooks fail all the time too, but at least when not used they're folded shut & semi-protected. In this specific comparison, I see no reason to use some frail theoretical webpad when I can rely on existent notebook technology to carry around a computer so fucking small (10.6"(w) x 7"(d) x 1.59"(h)), smaller than the form design for most webpads, that lets me do anything my desktop does.
And everyone seems to bitch about wanting a "more natural" interface. From an anthropological perspective, there is no "more natural", there's just what you're used to -- the human animal can express ideas in multitudes of ways, and when it come to writing what I'm used to is thinking as I type about 90wpm. Writing with a pen on a notepad anymore feels feels like I've got a 25mph governor on a Ferrari. It's infuriating, and it doesn't get any better when you're dealing with some shit handwriting software - I haven't seen a single handwriting recognition program that wasn't a bitch to use and didn't make constant mistakes. Blah blah Graffiti blah blah - Graffiti isn't handwriting recognition software in the true sense of the term. Too many hardware people are obsessed with producing something because they thought of it in a Star Trek wet dream. People LIKE the keyboard. Look at the Blackberry. Look at the new Handspring Treos. How many people still peck at the keyboard with the stylus on their Palm PDAs? We have PDA makers trying to fit keyboards into tiny-ass PDAs & phones, people like them so much. Except for a few niche areas webpads are still a product looking for a market. Except for being bigger and having less battery life, what is a webpad going to do that a good color PDA doesn't? I may be being contrary, but these are serious questions that manufacturers need to consider before going to market with another damned Audrey.
No electronic pad has ever been made so far that didn't suck. Who knows? Maybe I'll be proved wrong, but I think the notebook is always going to be a league ahead of the notepad, and for the reasons above. Until I see a pad that alot of people prefer to notebooks, it's still vapor.
--
The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.
Re:If you want a tiny Transmeta Computer...
by
stubear
·
· Score: 2
Threre a couple Tablet PC designs which mimic the Vadem Clio HPC device. The screens on these devices flip up to work much like a regular laptop and they can flip around, covering the keyboard for pen input. The monitor can then close much like a laptop protecting the screen from harm. Granted, not all Tablet PCs will follow this form factor design but a few will.
Also, I would wager that one will be able to purchase a special case much like you can purchase laptop and PDA cases today. I'm sure there won't be nay problems being able to properly protect these devices either direct from the manufacturers or through third parties.
not a good form factor
by
condour75
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Well i don't know -- i think this is more futurism-wish-fulfillment than actual good design. There are several downsides to the tablet form factor:
1. Suddenly your input area costs beaucoup power, since it's a display.
2. handwriting, at its fastest, is still very slow compared to typing.
3. almost every child knows how to use a qwerty keyboard already -- who are we appeasing by removing the keyboard, except possibly boomers who haven't had to type since college?
4. display is always exposed to elements, rough handling, etc.
5. ergonomics are terrible; this thing will need to be peered down at and then written on. Will the user put it at a diagonal? will it have some sort of stand?
I'm sure y'all can think of others. The prime benefit, i guess, is being able to use a stylus directly on the surface you're viewing. Doesn't sound worth it to me, a Faustian bargain at best.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Possible fix?
by
rapett0
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Ok, I been wondering, remember those desks that have the rolldown top? Why do the tablet/pad makers not implement exactly the same thing? It would be such an easy fix and greatly improve the chances of the screen surviving bumps, etc. Is it an asthetic concern? I am sure someone can make it look good. Also, I am patenting this if no one has done it haha:)
Re:Another touch screen?
by
Catbeller
·
· Score: 2
They've had tablet pc's for years.. I have the origional a Dauphin DTR-1 built back in 1989. and EVERY time they make them the tablet pc becomes a complete flop.
Why? people dont want them, not for the insane prices they are asking. If you can make me a tablet web browesr that has a pcmcia slot has a smallish (800x600) LCD that is clear and readable in the dark as well as full-direct-sunlight. I dont want the ability to run java, javascript, flash, or other crap like that. just render HTML 4.0 and it has to cost less than $400.00
Slashdot Mirror
a laptop, only less durable. sounds like fun.
That picture (on CNN) looks like a gigantic iPaq. Looks like HP's really getting their moneys worth from Compaq..
air and light and time and space
Despite all the recent hype about tablets, I really can't forsee them selling well. I mean, wasn't this tried before? This is especially true when most of the ones I've seen reviewed cost more than a notebook (~$3000). Yeah, you can hang it on a wall, but is the extra grand really worth being able to type on a virtual keyboard with a stylus?
"It's a drug that gives worms to ex-girlfriends!"
Exactly.
HP anounced today the the tablet device will sell for $50. Replacement screens, which are good for 1000 page views can be purchased for $85, or $100 for 1500 page views.
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Anybody know if we'll need special drivers to put Linux on this thing (probably the biggest thing is a handwriting recognition program, of course)?
I'm assuming we'll be force fed Windows XP, but with a Transmeta processor, you can always hope.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
Seriously, isn't this whole idea pretty much useless without handwriting recognition? I've seen nothing to suggest that anyone has that working yet...
Why is it that everyone on slashdot these days don't use question marks when asking questions. I've seen them in books and in magazines and have found them to be rather useful at worst. I think I'll prefer a question mark to a period when asking a question. Maybe, I won't look as dumb, but at least I won't have to go through the agrivation of creating mock paragraphs when at work.
Seriously though, when done well, touch screens can be great. Sorry, but Palms are overpriced electronic organizers, and not designed to be used as 'real' computers. If "casio pocket computers" run PocketPC there are a few programs, like CalliGrapher, that would make it great to use, but since you're identifying it by it's brand name rather than something useful like the platform, I can't be sure.
With good real handwriting recognition (not graffiti, or some other character recognition scheme)- like CalliGrapher (for PocketPC), PenOffice (for Windoze), or the Newton OS 2.x HWR one can enter text quite fast. I can easily enter 45+ WPM on my Newton. I could probably get faster than that on my iPAQ running CalliGrapher 6 if the screen weren't so damn small.
But then again, I wouldn't pay a $1000 premium for something as bulky as this, no doubt without decent software to manage input. I suppose you could install PenOffice on top of Windows XP, which is what this no doubt comes preloaded with. However, there is no real HWR for Linux, which is disapointing.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
I really hope they (and some others) can make the breakthrough, the processor market really needs some fresh new competition. Even though AMD and Intel are "battling", the fight is still, despite of the press - done in Intel's universe. See this article from turn of 2001.
But, when we see real pressure from multiple directions, we might see these companies develop something truly revolutionary, currently they don't have to - they just don't. A market situation in which Intel would have only around 40% slice, would nurture much more speedy development.
Found this large picture on Microsoft's Tablet PC image gallery:
Compaq Tablet PC Design Concept
Here is Compaq's page which talks about this thing.
(Remember kids, it's not karma-whoring if you're already at 50.)
"And like that
A little offtopic, but I'd be really happy if someone would come out with a cheap, lcd, even if text only, telnet 'terminal' that could plug right into the network, not even wireless, for $50 DHCP or static addressing, DNS, telnet, nothing else. I'd buy a few of those. Fast power-on would be the key. Many times I want to just check the mail on my main server at home without having to power up the main box. I can use the palm pilot, sure, but the limited display and lack of keyboard are a PITA.
Why is it that everyone on slashdork that complains about other people's spelling, grammar, and usage of punctuation--or lack thereof--still can't figure out how to use a goddamn apostrophe?
That's the problem with these types of devices--they are still way out of reach of most users pricewise. Granted, the articles don't mention price, but you can be sure that based on similar products available today, it will probably sell for between $1500 and $2500--way too high for the average user.
All I want is a wireless, tablet-sized device that will allow me to surf the web from anywhere in my house, wirelessly connecting to my LAN, and I would like to see it for below $1000. I don't need Windows XP, I won't be playing games or doing video production on this thing! I just want to surf the web!
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
...go for Fujitsu's P-2000 Laptop with a 7-hour high capacity battery, DVDROM, and a wireless LAN card.
IMO, pads do and shall always suck, primarily because of the inherent frailty of an exposed screen. Sure, the screens on notebooks fail all the time too, but at least when not used they're folded shut & semi-protected. In this specific comparison, I see no reason to use some frail theoretical webpad when I can rely on existent notebook technology to carry around a computer so fucking small (10.6"(w) x 7"(d) x 1.59"(h)), smaller than the form design for most webpads, that lets me do anything my desktop does.
And everyone seems to bitch about wanting a "more natural" interface. From an anthropological perspective, there is no "more natural", there's just what you're used to -- the human animal can express ideas in multitudes of ways, and when it come to writing what I'm used to is thinking as I type about 90wpm. Writing with a pen on a notepad anymore feels feels like I've got a 25mph governor on a Ferrari. It's infuriating, and it doesn't get any better when you're dealing with some shit handwriting software - I haven't seen a single handwriting recognition program that wasn't a bitch to use and didn't make constant mistakes. Blah blah Graffiti blah blah - Graffiti isn't handwriting recognition software in the true sense of the term. Too many hardware people are obsessed with producing something because they thought of it in a Star Trek wet dream. People LIKE the keyboard. Look at the Blackberry. Look at the new Handspring Treos. How many people still peck at the keyboard with the stylus on their Palm PDAs? We have PDA makers trying to fit keyboards into tiny-ass PDAs & phones, people like them so much. Except for a few niche areas webpads are still a product looking for a market. Except for being bigger and having less battery life, what is a webpad going to do that a good color PDA doesn't? I may be being contrary, but these are serious questions that manufacturers need to consider before going to market with another damned Audrey.
No electronic pad has ever been made so far that didn't suck. Who knows? Maybe I'll be proved wrong, but I think the notebook is always going to be a league ahead of the notepad, and for the reasons above. Until I see a pad that alot of people prefer to notebooks, it's still vapor.
The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.
Well i don't know -- i think this is more futurism-wish-fulfillment than actual good design. There are several downsides to the tablet form factor:
1. Suddenly your input area costs beaucoup power, since it's a display.
2. handwriting, at its fastest, is still very slow compared to typing.
3. almost every child knows how to use a qwerty keyboard already -- who are we appeasing by removing the keyboard, except possibly boomers who haven't had to type since college?
4. display is always exposed to elements, rough handling, etc.
5. ergonomics are terrible; this thing will need to be peered down at and then written on. Will the user put it at a diagonal? will it have some sort of stand?
I'm sure y'all can think of others. The prime benefit, i guess, is being able to use a stylus directly on the surface you're viewing. Doesn't sound worth it to me, a Faustian bargain at best.
It's the public school system! I SWEAR! ;)
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Ok, I been wondering, remember those desks that have the rolldown top? Why do the tablet/pad makers not implement exactly the same thing? It would be such an easy fix and greatly improve the chances of the screen surviving bumps, etc. Is it an asthetic concern? I am sure someone can make it look good. Also, I am patenting this if no one has done it haha :)
What is "agrivation"? Notice the question mark.
They've had tablet pc's for years.. I have the origional a Dauphin DTR-1 built back in 1989. and EVERY time they make them the tablet pc becomes a complete flop.
Why? people dont want them, not for the insane prices they are asking. If you can make me a tablet web browesr that has a pcmcia slot has a smallish (800x600) LCD that is clear and readable in the dark as well as full-direct-sunlight. I dont want the ability to run java, javascript, flash, or other crap like that. just render HTML 4.0 and it has to cost less than $400.00
otherwise the product will be an utter failure.
This is nothing but history repeating it's self.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.