Vertical Keyboard vs Carpal Tunnel

An anonymous reader sent us links to a quite strange vertical keyboard which also links to a study that claims that this is more ergonomic than your usual board. Of course at $347 it also better make me coffee.

Comments

It's not a true keyboard...

[FueledByRamen]

...if you can't spill coffee on the important bits.

Man..

[Kizzle]

For that much it should read my mind and type for me.

Is it really the keyboard?

[kidlinux]

Is it really the keyboard that causes carpal tunnel syndrome? I've been going with a regular keyboard since my first computer (~10 years), and I'm just fine.
Maybe some people are just more prone to carpal tunnel than others. Maybe it's just really bad typing habits (or not, because I think mine are horrible ;).

Re:Is it really the keyboard?

[Wesley Everest]

I've been at a keyboard since 1978, with no thought about ergonomics until the early 90's after I first noticed problems. So, that was about 14 years with no problems. Now I have no choice but to be careful about my setup, take stretch breaks, etc. which generally keeps things ok.

Re:Is it really the keyboard?

[gwernol]

I've been at a keyboard since 1978, with no thought about ergonomics until the early 90's after I first noticed problems. So, that was about 14 years with no problems. Now I have no choice but to be careful about my setup, take stretch breaks, etc. which generally keeps things ok

I've been typing since 1981, so not quite as long. But I've had basically no problems in more than 20 years of reasonably heavy keyboard use. Either I'm lucky or its because I've never learnt to touch type. I still do "advanced hunt and peck" which means my hands and wrists are constantly changing positions and don't come under the same sort of repetative strain as a good touch typist's do.

Of course this is a sample size of exactly one, so I don't claim it means anything. But have studies been done to examine a possible correlation between touch typing and RSI/CTS?

Re:Is it really the keyboard?

[prockcore]

"Now I have no choice but to be careful about my setup, take stretch breaks, etc. which generally keeps things ok."

Smoking prevents carpal tunnel syndrome.

Every hour I take a break and go outside to the smoker's lounge.

So the real question is, is there a keyboard out there that prevents wheezing cough?

So Unique!

[CrayzyJ]

"So Unique this was awarded US Patent..."

They also awarded patents on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and how to exercise a cat. What's your point?

correct alignment

[manifested2]

I like this, now the palms of your hand are correctly aligned for the various tasks at hand...

Vertical? how bout 45 degrees and folding

[billstr78]

I know that people tend to rest thier rists agains the desk, and this is a major source of carpal tunnel symptoms, but could the job be done with a mere 45 degree angle and maybe a hinge that allowed in to fold (to many degrees)? It seems as though gravity would take it's toll on your shoulders after keeping your hands in a vertical position 3 inches off the desk.

Alternative Keyboard FAQ

[Skreech]

the Alternative Keyboard FAQ is here and has information about other kinds of keyboards.

also some news articles...

CU study: Vertical split keyboard lowers the injury risk for typists
Vertical Keyboard: the "Touch Easy."

Major University != Cornell?

[dbmartin00]

I can't seem to load it, but the "major university" seems like it may be Cornell... the link I can't load is labelled cornell.html anyway.

It must be this study

How to make a horizontal ergonomic keyboard

[Cardhore]

Remove the following keys:

Windows

Windows (on the other side)

Thing Next To Windows with the Arrow and menu thing(same side as above)

PrtScn

ScrLk

Pause

Home

End

Delete

Page Up

Page Down

Insert

UP arrow (But what about games??? you cry. Ever heard of WASD?)

DOWN arrow

LEFT arrow

RIGHT arrow

The whole friggin numeric keypad (this allows space for your mouse so you arm is not bent all over the side of your desk)

Finally, switch escape with caps lock (for all you friendly vi users), and optionally remove the function keys. Surprise! You now have a typewriter with shift, control, and alt. That's all ya need folks!The best part is...you can still use emacs! If you really need a numeric keyboard, you should be able to buy it separately.

Re:BS

[outlier]

It was Cornell. Certainly not Podunk College.

I'm usually a bit wary whenever someone claims that a study (at a named university or not) "proves" anything. The scientific method doesn't prove things, it is used to test to see if things aren't likely.

Marketing people should be tortured.

Simple engineering

[datastew]

Actually "the turning your wrists sideways to type" thing kind of makes sense in an engineering point of view.

Thinking way back to my statics class, the stress at any point in the beam is inversely proportional to the moment of inertia. Modeling your wrist as a rectangular beam 1" x 2", the moment of inertia is given by the formula
( b * h ^3 ) / 12
So turning your wrist sideways changes the moment of inertia from .1667 inches ^ 4 to .6667 inches ^ 4. With a corresponding decrease in the stress on your wrists.

However the actual stress savings will be less for the following reasons:

1. If your wrists are anything like mine, they are closer to being ellipses than rectangles, and concentrating more mass at the centers means that the turning sideways trick will make a smaller change in the moment of inertia. Also, measuring my wrists more closely, it looks like the values are 1.75" and 2.75". I just didn't want to dig out my calculator.

2. Whichever way you turn your wrists, they still have to handle the forces generated each time you push against a key. Think about "equal and opposite reaction" from one of Newton's laws.

Re:Currently feeling bad about buying a datahand

[jonabbey]

I used a DataHand exclusively at work for over 3 years, after having experienced some RSI issues, and wrote many tens of thousands of lines of code using it.

It turned out that the DataHand didn't do nearly as much for me as getting out and exercising (yoga!) did. The DataHand actually encourages you to _not_ move your hands, which is actually a big negative when it comes to blood circulation issues. As a diabetic, blood circulation is actually a big deal.

The DataHand also proved stressful to my little fingers, which had to do a lot of side-to-side motions that one normally does not encounter.

If you like the DataHand, more power to you, but despite my very extensive experience with it, I am happier with a simple (and reliable) Microsoft Natural keyboard and exercise.

Other alternatives

[SeanAhern]

If you watch their little video, they talk about some positions that normal keyboards force your hands to be in. It's those positions that cause all of the problems that are associated with typing. Their keyboard purports to remove the problems by putting your hands in a more natural and neutral position.

A little over a year ago, slashdot posted an article about the Evolution Keyboard, now by Kinesis. I have had one of those for several years, and would recommend that anyone interested in the SafeType keyboard also check out the Evolution keyboard. (You can the review I posted to slashdot here.)

The SafeType keyboard is fixed in position, and they consider that to be one of its major features. While I can see that preventing users from futzing with the keyboard keeps them from moving it to a position where it can hurt them, I happen to really like the ability of the Evolution keyboard to move to whatever position I like. In fact, I can make it go completely vertical if I want, gaining all the advantages of the SafeType keyboard. I can even drop it to the sides of my chair, removing even one more "unnatural" position of my arms.

To me, having lots of choices in how I configure my work space is a good thing. And having a keyboard that fits this mindset is one of the most important parts.

They still have it wrong...

[johnlcallaway]

I'm 5'9" (1.7 m) and 225lbs (100Kg). I've also been touch typing for about 25 years. Now....everyone play along with this and find out where your neutral position is. I'll bet it's probably not the same as mine.

First off, let's assume that the vertical position of your hands is actually better.

Place your hands like the one's in the picture of the Safetype keyboard. Now, when I do this, I feel a pressure in my sholders suggesting that my hands should be closer together ... my arms more like a V than parallel. I measured it, and the most comfortable position is my fingertips about 4 inches (10cm) apart.

Now, look at your hands and wiggle your fingers as if you were typing. When I do this, my fingers are curled and move towards and away from me, not on the side like the Safetype keyboard. Except for my thumb, it moves up and down. Even neater.

So, my 10 minute research suggests that they take their keyboard and rotate it away from the body, and allow the user to control the distance between the two halves. Also, move the space bar, and maybe a few other keys like caps and esc to the top for the thumbs. THAT would be more ergonomic than the contraption they have.

The only drawback I can see, and the Safetype keyboard would have the same problem, is that my hands rest on the outside edges. I would guess that this would be very irritating after awhile.

Can I have my government grant now????

Letters are lined up unsymetrically.

[eugene ts wong]

When people put their hands to the keyboard, they'll find that their fingers are like mirror opposites. Yet the keys line up in one direction. To see what I mean, look at r f v and u j m. f and j are up above v and m, and to the left. I believe that f and j should be up and to the centre. When your hands are on the keyboard, the fingers will naturally reach up to the centre.

This won't help everybody, because many people are happy with their keyboards, but it will help some people. I'm sure that my idea won't hurt anybody. That's for sure.

Better yet...

[Nindalf]

Have your keyboard in the natural ass-scratching position.

(and make one for under $20)