Starband Files for Chapter 11

PalmKiller writes "Well it looks like Starband is going into chapter 11. I got the email a few days ago. And just when I got CYGWIN with squid proxy working beautifully. With winproxy I rarely got any thoughput on my clients (20-50KBytes/sec or 160-360Kbits/sec), on squid I finally am getting 80-95KBytes/sec (640-760Kbits/sec continuously) and some faster bursts. Well, I guess I will ride her till she falls over and dies." Looks like Echostar's tactics have been successful. And we just did an article a few weeks ago on Starband's service, where most commenters weren't very happy.

Comments

another one bites the dust

[cetialpha]

When will the competition start? or are the Major's going to become one and we'll never have good service at a good price? Ceti http://cetialpha.com

Oh my god the Internets going bankrupt!

[Xcrap]

First KNPQwest, now Starband! Whos going to be next? (I hope its Microsoft).

Users

[hoowee]

More info on the Starband User's experience available here

Well, shoot

[Dr. Smeegee]

Guess I can let my installation certs lapse now... :-)

Too bad. A decent service if you don't have access to cable/dsl.

Adelphia

[scott1853]

I'm sure Adelphia Cable is next. They just got delisted from Nasdaq last week and are apparently involved in a little Enron mimmicking. Something like 2 billion worth of debt was kept off the books. I don't have the links handy but just lookup Adelphia Trouble in Google and I'm sure you'll find a hundred articles.

Re:Adelphia

[ender81b]

Links:

Adelphia postpones quarterly report due to 'accounting discrepancies'

More on accounting problems (google cache)

Adelphia selling off assets (google cache)

Absolutely ridiculous. All these telecoms going bye-bye. Where the fsck did the people who ran these business get their degrees? I mean, for god's sake, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if your company is 2 billion in debt maybe you shouldn't pay like 50 million to liscense a stadium (titan's adelphia stadium). Or perhaps you shouldn't get those $100,000 sun boxen. Always a favourite of mine - listening to all this super expensive brand-new equipment these companies have. Ebay anyone?

It just boggles my mind that somehow these morons got put in charge of a company like this. Take starband - why in god's name would you ban something like P2P filesharing programs? These programs are like the #1 reason people (Especially younger people) want to get broadband - but you filter them out. Great business strategy. Gee, I wonder why you are going bankrupt?

It just pisses me off that these morons who ran the company will get to live off of 'only 50 million' like that b*tch from Enron while 1,000 or more employees will have to try and have to scrape together a living. Argggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

</RANT<

Re:Adelphia

[GigsVT]

P2P isn't banned, it just doesn't work very well. OpenNap servers work well though.

It has to do with upstream bandwidth only being about 64kbits/sec. You can't do P2P very well with such a limited upstream.

You get a full, uncensored, unlimited, usenet feed though, and to me, that more than makes up for it.

Starband is not something to get if you want to do any serving or uploading. It is primarily a download-only broadband solution, just like all other consumer satellite products. The advantage is that Starband doesn't tie up your phoneline for the upstream like others do.

Re:Adelphia

[Anonymous Coward]

What is this "only 50 million" bitch you speak of? Did some exec whine about having to live on only 50 million? I'd like to read about that!

Re:Adelphia

[binaryDigit]

Where the fsck did the people who ran these business get their degrees?

Actually, if looking at it from a purely selfish standpoint (which I'm sure many if not most of those who ran these companies did), they were brilliant. After all, who has pocketed all this money and perks? These guys learned very well thank you. They perfectly manipulated a situation that allowed them to exploit gullable (and willing) VC's and other investors and customers. They rode the wave, were smart enough to know that it wouldn't last forever, so they milked it for all they could. For the most part, they have lost nothing. They have fat bank accounts, they will be able to get fat jobs. Now tell me how stupid they are again.

why in god's name would you ban something like P2P filesharing programs?

Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth. If you want p2p, you'd go for cable modem/dsl, not starband. You'd only go starband if you had no choice (or detest your cable/phone company), in which case you'd have no choice. Seems like a smart move to me.

Re:Adelphia

[ender81b]

The wife of Enron's CEO was on 60 minutes (i think) and complained about how poor they where after Enron's collapse. IRS/Bank documents showed the two had nearly 50 million dollars.

Re:Adelphia

[Anonymous Coward]

I totally agree with your post, the rich get richer..... the family that ran adelphia until they were all booted by stockholders in the last few weeks(good riddance) had the financial sense of a 12 year old. they were in the process of building a ~$25 million golf course for themselves at the company's expense because they were too good to play on the course that was already there(a town of 2500 people doesnt need 2 fucking golf courses), and they built a ~$20 million office building downtown that was completely unecessary. not to mention spending well over 2 million on a corporate intranet site that amounts to nothing more than an electronic phone listing. correct me if i'm wrong, but 50k worth of good intel hardware running FreeBSD or linux could have done the same job. well, enough ranting, i guess my point is that the higher up the corporate ladder you look, the stupider people are. it's pretty shitty that i'm about to lose my job because a bunch of rich fucks didnt think they had enough money and had to borrow from the company to buy more stock.

posting anonymously for obvious reasons

Re:Adelphia

[fishebulb]

at $50k your still getting screwed :), but at least on a smaller scale

Re:Adelphia

[LWolenczak]

They already filed... like three days ago.

Ownership Question

[OaITw]

It would be nice if someone could explain or provide links clarifying the relationship between Echostar, Starband, and GILAT SATELLITE NETWORKS. On the the Starband site they say they are not a publically traded company and refer to Echostar and Gilat as partners. The CNET article describes Echostar defection from the Starband and GILAT camp. Anyone got info on the ownership of Starband. What is interesting to me is that it seems that Starband existed as a subsidary of these other companies but the chapter 11 applies only to Starband.

Re:Ownership Question

[NotASuit]

EchoStar and Gilat are two of the several investors in StarBand. Just because StarBand is bankrupt doesn't mean it's investors must be bankrupt too - for the same reason that Webvan's, E-Toy's, etc. creditors didn't come after all of their stockholders.

Re:Ownership Question

[schnell]

Gilat is a VSAT (Very Small Aperture Terminal, e.g. small satellite dish) hardware manufacturer that owned a large chunk of Starband. However, even though they retain a smaller stake in it, they recently wrote off all of their investment in the company, saying they didn't expect to get any of it back.

Echostar is the company behind Dish Network, and they had bought into Starband (majority ownership?) and planned to use it for their own residential satellite Internet service. Recently, though, Echostar decided it wanted to buy ("merge with") satellite biggie Hughes Electronics (operator of DirecTV).

Knowing that Echostar would face some regulatory hurdles over the consolidation, Echostar dropped Starband (claiming something or other was wrong with it) and then complained to the regulatory overseers that rural folks wouldn't be able to get Internet access unless their merger with Hughes was approved. I think I heard that Echostar recently took its reps off Starband's board, since they didn't seem to be too welcome anymore.

At no time, I think, were Gilat and Echostar really "partners" - they just both owned parts of Starband.

Re:Ownership Question

[Anonymous Coward]

From my time at Echostar, and I still work there. Echostar is the company that does all of the sales for starband services, Gilat is the Israeli company that does all of the engineering work, and Starband is the company that deals with customers.

I'm not 100% sure of this however.

Chapter 11

[zerocool^]

Chapter 11 is NOT going out of business.

Chapter 11 is filing for protection from creditors during restructuring.
Doesn't mean it's not headed that way, just that it's not there yet.

~Will

So what is left for rural areas?

[SlashChick]

Having grown up in a rural area, and having friends and parents who still live in an area that just got 56K phone lines, this issue is important.

I can remember back in the day when AOL and other ISPs promised 98-99% local number coverage, and we were still in that other 1%. We didn't have local dial-up until 1996, when the local pharmacist (!) and his wife set up a T1 and modem pool out of their garage.

My question is: what is going to happen to these communities? With the FCC pushing toward one DSL provider and one cable provider per town, this is going to merit absolute disaster in a town that Verizon doesn't care about and where there practically isn't a cable company (the cable company went out of business three times in three years; everyone gave up and got satellite.)

I sense a real impending disaster that could perhaps be averted by something like fixed wireless. Are there feasibility studies on the 'Net (cost analyses, etc.) that show the costs of putting in a fixed wireless or other broadband setup? I've seen the case studies, many of which are posted on Slashdot. However, they fail to touch in the bigger problem, which is that this applies to 20% of the country.

If we want people to have broadband, someone is going to have to come up with a plan to offer it over large service areas over something that is not a phone or a cable line. Do we have answers yet? What is on the horizon?

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[GweeDo]

There are a lot of things that are popping up for rural areas. My wife is from a small town in western Kansas called Plainville. There town having only 2500 people just got DSL and a town about fifty miles north of them called Phillipsburg now has wireless access within 20 miles of a certain grain silo (no joke). The company providing the server is Nex-Tech. Many of the cities that this company works with are in the 1000-3000 people range...and they don't suck either :)

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[ender81b]

Well they could do what these people did. In all honesty, setting up an internet CO-Op seems to be the most likely way for people in rural areas to get broadband.

Remember only because of the Rural Electrification act of 1923(?) did rural areas get electrict/telephones. A report from the DOE (deparment of Energy) that I read (can't find the link, of course) said that the total cost of wiring all those places took around 30-40 years to pay off. The telecoms make very, very little from rural areas, and in many cases lose money, so they tend to not care about them.

So either build your own or press the gov't to make some sort of law requiring the telco's to provide broadband.

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[Saltheart]

I've been looking at DirecWay. Supposedly people have gotten it to work with Linux, but I haven't seen any hard evidence yet. Meanwhile, Hughes is apparently shipping their DW4020 router device (around $300) that "officially" lets other systems (like Linux, Mac, etc) connect to the DirecWay modem.

When you consider that the basic setup and install is over $500, this is a fairly expensive way to go, but I guess if your desperate for bandwith in rural areas . . .

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[PalmKiller]

Alas the cost is where the rub lies. I spent $600 for the install of my starband system and the modem, so I will be leary about doing that again...will they survive? I did get a free upgrade from a model 180 to a model 360 last year though. While I think the way to go in the country is satellite still, the new radio is a possible. I had a direcpc one way system, which is still on the side of my home, I suppose I could fire that one back up...the Fair Access Policy was crappy and I am sure it still applies to their two way. And DSL is out when you live 20 miles from the nearest town...AFAIK.

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[0WaitState]

There's no mention of throughput or latency on their flash-ridden website. I wouldn't bother with them.

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[fermion]

I don't mean this to flame, but why it is so critical for rural areas to have broadband internet. Rural areas already get subsidized so they can have roads, electricity, and telephone. They already mostly have 56K dialup, which is quite suitable for most tasks. Why do they have a right to broadband. I do have not problem with the other subsidies, except for the situation in which people and companies move to these rural areas specifically to save on taxes and land costs, while whining about the lack of services. They then of course proceed to create excess traffic and pollute our cities as they drive the 50 miles into the city in their SUVs to see a movie.

Anyway, I have yet to see any compelling need for universal broadband. If someone wants to buy a T1 line and sell it to other people, great. If someone can figure how to make a profit on wireless, that would be better. But, generally speaking, a rural area can't have all the conviences of the city. They often can't have a fire station within a 1/2 mile, they often don't have gas piped into they house, and they are generally not going to be within the limitation of a DSL line. I mean, hell, I live within a few block of my switching station, and I still had to wait months to get intallation.

Stop Whining

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[feydakin]

Be glad you had a 180.. I just bought my *band system just 4 months ago.. At $800 for the hardware and install, + $79/mo for service, if they drop tomorrow I will have paid almost $300/mo for internet access..

There are very few other options this far out in the sticks..

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[Anonymous Coward]

>I've been looking at DirecWay.

Before you buy, ask for some details on their Fair Access Policy.

Ask them questions like "exactly how much, in Megabytes, do I have to download before my speed is slower than a modem?", or "when will my speed increase to full after being FAPped?", or "how long will my honeymoon, non-FAP period last?".

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[shepd]

>I don't mean this to flame, but why it is so critical for rural areas to have broadband internet.

Do you want to vote online?

Not until everyone can at a reasonable pace (most rural communities connect at 9600 baud - 21.6kbps -- absolutely useless for the modern internet).

Would you like to get rid of your telephone and only use your broadband connection?

Not until everyone one you would ever need to call has access to broadband.

>They already mostly have 56K dialup

As a rural resident, I can tell you that you've been lied to. Most of us are connecting at rates barely faster than a 14.4k modem, and most of us have enough line noise that getting a 24/7 connection is next to impossible.

Of course, if you're still on a party line (pretty much only found in rural areas now) getting on the internet would be a tag-team sport.

>Why do they have a right to broadband

I dunno, maybe because most of your food was produced by these people?

If you continue to treat rural folk as a second class, you can stop expecting first class eats. I mean, it goes with the territory. The more 3rd world countries surpass rural areas for access to amenities, the more likely your food's going to taste like its come from the third world!

And yes, I've heard from at least one local farmer who's pissed that he can't get broadband for his milk farm business. I don't know how he'd use it, though, so don't ask (I'm one of those SUV driving people who you'd rather not see spending any money in your city).

>except for the situation in which people and companies move to these rural areas specifically to save on taxes and land costs, while whining about the lack of services.

Most rural people who do this are willing to pay extra for extra services. I, for example, am paying $150 CDN a month for always-on high-speed internet. I would humbly suggest that your taxes fund $1, maybe $2 a month of your high-speed internet.

If anything, we pay more, and often are willing to pay more.

>They then of course proceed to create excess traffic and pollute our cities as they drive the 50 miles into the city in their SUVs to see a movie.

That's ok. Considering that the bulk of wealth (at least in my town) comes from people living outside of the downtown areas (where the city is most built up, and where DSL is everywhere), we'll just stop putting money into your city. How long do you think that theater will last when no one is buying the $5 cokes?

>I have yet to see any compelling need for universal broadband.

With ubiquity comes application.

If you can trust that anyone you sell a product has access to broadband, you'll build it in.

You are the reason why its taken over a decade after the introduction of broadband before there's been any real interest in broadband online console gaming.

>If someone can figure how to make a profit on wireless, that would be better.

They're trying, but unfortunately the equipment costs, and monthly service fees are not something that even people with money are willing to pay.

>They often can't have a fire station within a 1/2 mile

We do. Many, if not most, rural communities do. Without our volunteer fire department I have no clue what farmers would do when their barns and silos set on fire, not to mention the many times they save idiots from the city when they cause a crashe by driving 20 km/h on an 80 km/h.

>and they are generally not going to be within the limitation of a DSL line.

'Tis true, tis true. Ma Bell has made some very poor choices when building exchanges out in the country, and when the city expands into the country, they often have to pay dearly for it.

>Stop Whining

Sure, but don't expect a lot of home stereo MP3 players to have broadband jacks, and don't expect to be able to phone a lot of people with your new toy broadband phone, or easily watch movies online, or many of the other things that people with broadband want to do until everyone can get it.

We're whining because many of us are willing to pay almost 5 times what you pay for broadband, but somehow companies think even that won't make them money.

BTW: I'd suggest that us rural people are why North America has been stuck with such a pathetic cell phone system (CDMA is good to 5x the distance as GSM). I'd enjoy it if we can keep people like you, who consider us a second class, from getting their hands on broadband enabled devices in the same way. >:-D

TTYL, and remember, ubiquity is what got Microsoft where it is today, and its why Linux is having such a tough time in the market.

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[fermion]

Again, this is not a flame, just reason > Do you want to vote online? People can vote online with a 14.4 modem, or even at their local library >As a rural resident, I can tell you that you've been lied to. Most of us are connecting at >rates barely faster than a 14.4k modem, and most of us have enough line noise that >getting a 24/7 connection is next to impossible. I will grant you that. I suppose how rural is rural. In one of the posts, the author alluded to the availability of T1. If you can get T1, you can also get pretty close to 56K. If you are so rural that you only have party line phones, then there is not much anyone can do. >I dunno, maybe because most of your food was produced by these people? I have every respect for the farmer, and I support the legislation to keep the family farm, even when that legislation mostly goes to the corporate farmer. Unfortunately, even with these payments, my food is worse than the third world. You see, I have family in the third world. We raise cows in the pasture. We grow fruit and vegetables on the land, pick them when they are ripe, and then take them to market. My father was also a farmer, and spent the first and end of his life in a rural setting. If farmers need broadband, get the government to supplies with further direct payments. >If anything, we pay more, and often are willing to pay more. As well you should . And I pay more in rent and taxes. The issue is not money. The issue is requiring a excessively high level of services. >That's ok. Considering that the bulk of wealth (at least in my town) comes from people >living outside of the downtown areas (where the city is most built up, and where DSL is >everywhere), we'll just stop putting money into your city. How long do you think that >theater will last when no one is buying the $5 cokes? Most people around here move outside the city center because they cannot afford to live within it. City taxes pay to build the venues, and the city is reimbursed by those people that come to use it. >With ubiquity comes application. Cable is not everywhere, yet the market is there. IE is not used by everyone, but everyone is designing to it. To be rude, it is just important to reach enough people that mater. >We do. Many, if not most, rural communities do. Without our volunteer fire >department I have no clue what farmers would do when their barns and silos set on fire, >not to mention the many times they save idiots from the city when they cause a crashe >by driving 20 km/h on an 80 km/h. and many rural places don't. That is why the insurance company assumes that the building will burn down. In the city the fire department can save a house. In more rural places, i.e. not suburban, the fire department is often there to make sure that other houses to not get destroyed. >Sure, but don't expect a lot of home stereo MP3 players to have broadband jacks, and >don't expect to be able to phone a lot of people with your new toy broadband phone, or >easily watch movies online, or many of the other things that people with broadband >want to do until everyone can get it. I am not obsessed with broadband. I have a cell phone that is over three years old, I have a palm that is over 3 years old. I am unlike to pay the money for such devices. I have DSL connection at home because it is not expensive. I do not disagree with most of what you are saying. My problem is exactly what you stated above. There are applications that would benefit from broadband. When I worked for a company in a small town, the company was smart enough to stay within the limits of the town. That cost them some tax, but gave them access to services like a T1 line form the local telco. If we would have greedy and had moved out of town, we would have had to pay all sorts of extra fees. I would like every one to have broadband. I would a real and wireless and secure communication system to be in place. I would like to not have to pay long distance when I call 20 miles from my house. I would like to be able to take a walk at night and see the stars. I would like to be able to get to a lake in 5 minutes, or have an acre of land. I would like to pay $20 a square foot for a house. I give up these things so I can have a high level of service and be able to walk to the mall. But these things are not going to happen by talking about the poor and neglected rural population. There will always be pockets that will be just too expensive to service, even with wireless. We now have section of the country that are classified as empty. Read the orginal post. The author had 56K. The author knew of people with T1. He was complaining that the telcos were not providing him broadband. We all should know the compromises we make when we live in certain area. If those compromises no longer make sense, we should consider moving.

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[shepd]

I dunno how slashdot ate your post like that, but I've got one thing to respond to:

>If those compromises no longer make sense, we should consider moving.

And if everyone rural areas to the city, cities would have the added burden of housing 20-50% more people. As it stands, most people around here are fighting for apartments. Can you imagine what will happen to property prices if we all moved into the city? Heck, can you imagine the homeless rates?

In all seriousness, if everyone had thought like that 200 years ago, everyone would live in one big city, and 90% of North America would be absolutely open to being stolen by other countries! Not to mention how much more damage two planes would do when they land on the city's arcologies (the only solution that provides everyone with everything possible)!

I made my choice, and I'm willing to pay for it. But, as I've seen city traffic going through my city quintuple to the point that my 300 person town is almost at the point of having a traffic light, I wonder just how much the city people really would owe us if we put a toll on that road. Or maybe we could all play fair, and either the city people could pay most of our road tax, not use our roads, or, better yet, give us something we'd like -- reasonably priced broadband.

We might burden you by wanting broadband at your rates (even though it'll increase your price a couple of bucks a month) but city people benefit from rural areas with fresh produce, shortcut roads, and a place they can sightsee in (even if that does piss us all off :-).

I consider the tradeoff more than fair. I question if city people would be willing to live without fresh produce, shortcut roads, and some nice countryside they can visit on their weekends as willingly as I'd live without a phone line (because, if that happened, I'd try it for a while).

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[dozer]

What is on the horizon?

The question is, what is over the horizon?

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have Direcpc at home and I'm pretty happy with it. Been on it for about 6 months now. The service can be difficult to set up but once your up and running its pretty stable. If you live out in the stix satellite is better than dial up.

As for the fair access policy it isn't as bad as people say it is. I would rather have my service throttled back some than have it cut off after a certain limit or charged extra fee's.

Re:So what is left for rural areas?

[The Girl With The Br]

DirecPC turns me on
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

and I'm looking for me. thank you....

Doesn't surprise me

[Gerrioholic99]

Satellite internet has been dying and it is no news shocker to see more companies falling... Why pay for broadband that only works in good weather? With broadband already in decline, there is no way you can sell it if one of your warnings is... May lose signal during bad weather

Re:Doesn't surprise me

[PalmKiller]

The signal on the satellite I am pointed to is very strong. A mild rain or even a fairly hard one does not bother it much, it is still quite usable most of the time. A downpour however does kill it, which we seldom get where I am at. However sunspots get it for about 5-10 minutes a day around 2 pm or so this time a year, but it comes back gracefully. The longest knockout I have had was because it was raining hard on the west coast for a couple of days where the noc is . . . seems a downpour on either end kills it quite dead.

Re:Doesn't surprise me

[GigsVT]

I have only lose satellite contact when it is really really pouring, like NWS Severe Storm Warning type weather. Of course the power usually gets flaky from the resulting lightning of the storm, so I'm not usually trying to hard to use the Internet anyway.

Re:Doesn't surprise me

[trud]

Outages due to bad weather have been a rare and very brief problem for me. YMMV

I would hate to see Starband fail. It's the best thing since flush toilets to folks facing 26.4 baud access.

Wildblue

[vortexf5]

Charlie seems to think that Wildblue doesn't hold much promise either, as indicated in this article. I think it's interesting to read what Charlie thinks of satellite internet in light of the way Echostar handled Starband.

Who's going to step up to the plate and deliver broadband to the masses outside the metro areas?

M-

Re:Wildblue

[stipe42]

What masses outside of metro areas? According to the US census bureau, about 88% of the population lived in metropolitan counties.

stipe42

Re:Wildblue

[GutBomb]

those figures are a bit misleading. in the denver/boulder area for example there are 3 counties i can think of. Jefferson county, boulder county, and gilpin county. while PARTS of these counties touch urban areas, the bulk of all 3 is mainly rural areas.

Re:Wildblue

[vortexf5]

What masses outside of metro areas?

They're called suburbs. Cable Internet and DSL are far from penetrating into all of the suburb areas. Plus, just because a county is a "metropolitan county" doesn't mean the entire county is within the city.

Re:OK.

[bbk]

althought the parent is most likely a troll...

Starband is a satellite ISP.

Squid is a proxy cache server, for HTTP, FTP and some other protocols. http://www.squid-cache.org/ . It's quite flexible, and is great for reducing outgoing web traffic on a network, which speeds up web browsing - I've seen a 40% reduction in bandwidth used for web surfing at my work by using squid.

And for the other buzzwords, wingate is a windows based proxy program, and cygwin is a unix environment for windows, which allows unix programs to run unchanged on NT kernel based versions of windows.

BBK

yaaaaeeeee!!!

[mSuniX]

ding dong the....

damn... i'd better get that starband dish up on ebay..........

Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matters

[babbage]

Guys, first rule of journalism (and for that matter, of getting an "A" on any paper you had to write after, say, the 4th grade): make sure you cover

• who
• what
• where
• when
• [for bonus points] how & why

Before reading this, I had no idea who Starband was, what they did, where I might have known them from, etc. After reading it ...I still don't know, but I know that they're out of money and that it messes up some guy's Cygwin/Squid setup. But I don't *care* about some guy's Cygwin/Squid setup. If you want to convince the reader that this is important, maybe it would make more sense to mention, I dunno, who the fuck Starband is and why the hell it would matter to anyone if they're broke.

And to think I once saw Slashdot as journalism's great shining democratic hope. Oh the disappointment of reality.... :/

Gee! EchoStar is evil!

[DrSbaitso]

Who cares about cost/benefit analysis.. how dare EchoStar leave an industry when people in rural areas NEED high-speed internet!

If anyone can't recognize my sarcasm, this quote sounds exactly like one of many from Rand's Atlas Shrugged, which despite being full of (in my view) oversimplifications and flaws is a decent enough critique of governmental control over a lot of stuff. The government had no problem with local phone monopolies, and seems to have no problem with cable monopolies, but can't accept a satellite monopoly. Being a monopoly is in itself fine, the illegal part is when the monopoly uses its power to quash competition (by, for example, tying its browser software to the operating system, or forcing vendors to install its OS on every box they sell if they want to be able to sell it at all :). Charlie Ergen is trying to show the government they can't have it both ways: a competitive satellite TV marketplace and cost-effective satellite broadband, even if the broadband service loses money.

Besides, if Ergen thought the rural internet provider industry was so successful, would he really jump out of it for the fairly shortsighted goal of pressuring the government to approve his merger? *sigh* Is it just me or does the FCC rarely ever have its act together? I'm moving to Sealand!

Re:Gee! EchoStar is evil!

[GigsVT]

What the fuck.

You didn't read the article, and you really don't know anything about this whole thing, do you?

Echostar is a major stockholder in Starband, and they comitted fraud by entering into an agreement with Starband, and then backing out after they got what they could.

The Echostar agreement was that Echostar would sell starband bundled with Dish network packages, and then in Febuary, they were supposed to turn the accounts over the Starband, so that Starband could actually get some revenue. They never turned the accounts over, because they are interested in buying Hughes, which will come with its own satellite Internet, free from pesky things like having to compensate someone you were in a contract with.

Starband filed a suit against Echostar, but when they failed to get an injunctive order to get the accounts, they withdrew the suit. Starband was fucked over by Echostar through deception and fraud. Objectivism does not support fraud and deception, so your drivel is totally baseless.

Re:Once upon a time, slashdot was a peacefull plac

[Xcrap]

Slashdot erases history! Look at a old archived story and you will see that the trolls have been stripped!

Damn, I misread it....

[Anonymous Coward]

...thought it said Starbucks. Damn alcohol...

To Borrow From A Monty Python Song...

[ackthpt]

There goes another one....

And me still fooling around with 56k, of course XO looks comparatively healthy...

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[Elbereth]

Guys, first rule of journalism (and for that matter, of getting an "A" on any paper you had to write after, say, the 4th grade): make sure you cover

* who
* what
* where
* when
* [for bonus points] how & why

But that would take time away from making snide little comments in the submission/story.

Seriously, if you have just now realized how badly Slashdot is run, you must be new here. Half the accepted submissions are trolls (designed only to get a knee-jerk, emotional reaction out of people), and the remainder are so poorly editted that they make no sense at all.

I only read Slashdot for the amusement factor now.

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[doooras]

try reading the article instead of just the summary. those different colored words will take you there. they're called "hyperlinks" and take you to other places on the "internet"

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[Anonymous Coward]

erm... wouldn't that be "edited" ;-)

Those crazy creditors!

[fahrvergnugen]

From Starband's press release:

Now, through bankruptcy court, StarBand intends to restructure our debt, bring in an infusion of new equity, remove any impediments created by existing shareholders and emerge with a plan to achieve profitability.

Those pesky shareholders, always wanting a return on their investment. If management takes the attitude that the shareholders are the enemy, it's no wonder they're going under restructuring.

Re:Those crazy creditors!

[GigsVT]

Major Shareholders:

EchoStar: Entered into marketing agreement with Starband and owns 30% of stock. Failed to perform on marketing agreement (which was to sell starband bundled with Dish Network collect the payments for a while, and then turn over the accounts to Starband in Feburary). Their failure to perform on this agreement has driven Starband into bandruptcy, because Starband does not know who to bill for their service, and thus, has basically zero revenue.

Echostar wants to kill Starband, because they are trying to buy Hughes, who owns DirectTV and has their own Satellite Internet product, which would make Echostar a lot more money than their arrangement with Starband does.

Echostar held several board seats at Starband, until they got interested in buying Hughes.

Other major shareholders:
Gilat - Provides the satellite network and services. Don't know if there is any sleezy goings on here.

Microsoft - Apparently pressured Starband into not allowing open source developers access to the protocols needed to build anything other than a Windows client for Starband. Starband is very Linux friendly, they even will provide the software you need to do Internet connection sharing, so that you can use Starband with non-MS computers, but they refuse to release the specs, for suspicious reasons.

Starband has nothing to lose by ditching the scum that makes up it's major shareholders.

About damn time

[GigsVT]

2002-06-02 12:46:12 Starband files Chapter 11 (articles,news)(rejected)

News for nerds, stuff that's at least two weeks old.

Re:About damn time

[bellings]

2002-06-02 12:46:12 Starband files Chapter 11 (articles,news)(rejected)

Did your submission include a reference to winproxy, cygwin, and squid? Was your submission totally incomprehensible, utterly failing to explain what Starband is, or what relation it might have with cygwin and squid?

Hell, I've spent the last 10 minutes trying to figure out if Starband had been funding either squid, or perhaps the cygwin port of squid. Obviously, if your submission was clear and concise, it wouldn't have pissed me off so much. Then, I wouldn't be so pissed that I'd spend another 5 minutes writing this whiney post. Then, I wouldn't have been staring at the RedHat Linux ad for the last 5 minutes, and the sense of community I get from this website would be gone.

Re:About damn time

[tempmpi]

well, starband files chapter 11 wasn't the real news. Messing around with squid is what was important here.
Without some opensource reference (or anti-ms) this isn't worth a story.

Re:About damn time

[GigsVT]

Haha.

Great reply. I actually submitted it twice, my first submission was a rather long one, explaining "Starband satellite internet service" and their relationship with Echostar, which is why they are in bankruptcy, but it was before they filed Ch11, it was a week before when they asked the judge for an injunction against Echostar, which was denied. (Apparently they just filed the suit to see if they could get the injunction, and didn't plan to carry through on it)

I then tried to shorten it, once they filed Ch11. I didn't mention a lot of unrelated open-souce programs, so that is probably what happened.

Re:About damn time

[Orblivion]

Remember, it's like you were saying a while ago, it's all about salsa boy.

Re:About damn time

[garcia]

you had a better article writeup. They decided to wait for the person that had the least about of useful info and the most shit.

Try this link.

[antdude]

Try DSL Reports's forum. Look at the news headlines on the top of the Web page.

What I first thought it said

[reschly]

and would have also made me a lot happier:

Starbucks files for chapter 11.

Re:OK.

[babbage]

Starband is a satellite ISP. Ok, thank you. Now it makes sense to me. Those five words would have made the original article *much* clearer.

I know what squid is, but without filling the crucial blank about who Starband is or what they do, it's not at all clear what Squid has to do with this.

This story is not about the peripheral technolgy savvy users can apply with their computer & internet usage; it is about a service company who's financial situation will make it difficult or imposslble to deliver that service. Explain the story in terms of who they are & what they do, and the technological implications are obvious to anyone that cares; explain the story in terms of technological glitches, and it's still baffling as to why this matters.

I wasn't trolling, this is really just bad, confusing journalism. The important facts of the story -- who, what, where, when -- need to be covered first & foremost. Editorializing on how this sucks for your Squid setup can come later, if at all.

Holy shit! Starband is dead?!

[tswinzig]

"I have no emoticon to express how I'm feeling right now!" -- Comic Book Guy

If I knew who Starband was, however, I might.

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[babbage]

Thank you troll-meister, but the point isn't that I can follow the links -- in fact I did follow the links and was still unclear on the situation. The point is that the article doesn't do anything to make clear why 1000s of Slashdot readers should care enough to want to waste time following the links.

But then hey, I'm wasting time feeding the trolls. Thrown stones, glass hourse, pot, kettle, yadda yadda yadda.

Damn it all :(

[Judg3]

There goes my plan.

Since the IT crunch I have taken to driving a semi, I'll (soon be) out 2 weeks and home 2 days for now.
While theres plenty of Inet access in truckstops (A lot offer truckers FREE broadband in a "Multi Media Center") theres times I'll be in the middle of nowhere and would like a lil something to keep me company. Granted, I'll have satellite email in the truck, thats where it stops. I was kicking around an idea of getting starband installed at my house (since the EULA says it has to be stationary, and installed professionally), rip it down, and jury rig it in my truck. I was even thinking of maybe getting a digital compass and basicstamp and doing a little hackjob to make it try to align itself when I was on the road.

But not anymore =\

Re:Damn it all :(

[GigsVT]

You could do it the legal way and get a Starband installer cert, it's not hard, and it will make sure you don't blow away satellite TV for the whole eastern seaboard. Some guy with an RV got a starband installer cert for that same reason.

As a side note, you can still do all this if you are so inclined. They are still selling Starband, and this message is being posted from it.

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[doooras]

having been at the karma cap for nearly six months i can assure you that i'm not a troll. now, there are 1000s of slashdot readers that don't care about every article that is posted. some stories are of interest to some people, other stories are not. if you are an uninterested party, ignore it.

cheers.

This isn't surprising

[rbabb]

I was an intern for their marietta office about a year ago now. I tested their new 360 USB/ETHERNET modem. The service worked fairly well on the testing labs. Of course it had it's share of problems with lag time, and down time due to weather. But the service wasn't designed to compete with DSL or Cable Modems. It was designed for people who couldn't get any other form of broadband, and didn't want to use a regular dial-up service for the upstream.

I knew even a year ago that they were having severe financial troubles. They couldn't even afford to pay me and the other interns $10/hour for any more then 20 hours per week. Plus I was kinda offered a job as a tier 3 tech (would handle things no other tech coudl figure out) but it was retracted because they couldn't afford more people.

I hope that Starband works everythign out. Like it or not, it's the only hope for many people across the US to get some form of broadband service.

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[babbage]

You're dutifully ignoring the point. Seeing as the original article provided so little information or context, I have no idea if I'm an interested party. I can't tell from that if it can be ignored or if it should be studied further. I have a clearer idea now, based on people's comments, but the article itself is completely un-enlightening. That is what I'm griping about...

News For News, Stuff That Isnt Familliar To Anyone

[Bowie J. Poag]

Here's Your Slashdot Daily Recap, Applicable to every article that has run since late '99:

Two companies you've never heard of are fighting over something you're not familliar with, and as a result, theyre leaving virtually TENS of people without a service you havent heard of either!

An evil corporate entity you've never heard of is DANGEROUSLY CLOSE to finally pushing a bill you've never heard of through Congress that will DANGEROUSLY restrict the rights you're not quite sure you had to begin with!

A popular author you've never heard of has a new book you've never heard of...Don't laugh! Critics you've never heard of are hailing it as a masterpiece, and the author himself has an enormous mob of fans (numbering in the dozens!!!) who have read everything he has written, including several other titles you've never heard of. He gets compared to William Gibson somewhere along the way, which makes him incredibly relevant, because everyone knows William Gibson = Relevant.

Someone has finally perfected a way to do something you were never aware of, which involves a cash prize, numerous officiating bodies you've never heard of and extra-long acronyms everyone but you has known about for years... These acronyms, so sinister, often stretch into the mind-numbing 4 and 5-letter category.

Someone wanna write a Perl script to replace Slashdot the same way that Slashdot wrote one to replace Jon Katz?

90kB/s is good?

[Curtman]

My good old cable modem spits out 600kB/s+ at the best of times, and somewhere aroung 200-300kB/s at the worst, and costs $30CAD a month (~$20USD). What's the problem down there? Availability, or price?

Re:90kB/s is good?

[Anonymous Coward]

kb/s or kB/s ?

Re:90kB/s is good?

[ahfoo]

Price is the problem.
Anybody could set up a broadband ISP in rural ares with DSL or Wireless if you could buy DS3 or OC3 TCP/IP bandwidth for what it's really worth using modern ethernet technology. In Canada you can buy from the government and they pass it on at cost which is cheap enough to give you good service even in rural areas.
Sadly in the States there is this massive infection of paranoia about the government which is, oddly enough, fueled by the government itself which came to power on a platform of government hatred. Talking about twisted. We need marijuana reforms so bad because everybody just needs to mellow out a bit.
The insistance that broadband has to be handled by the unregulated private sector because the government can't be trusted with our private communications is bizarre to say the least. It's particularly odd because if the government was to lay, or simply purchase existing fiber on the interstate highway rights of way for an at-cost ethernet only backbone it could simply promise the same level of monitoring on the government owned network as it currently already has over private networks. Since it's a matter of public record that private networks are fully monitored anyway in the name of national security, the government wouldn't need to have any more access to everybody's data on its own network than it already has on private ones, this would maintain the status quo and lower prices.
I can hear the argument now though --well it's not about THEM looking at my P2P pr0n downloads, it's that they'd be putting these struggling mom and pop baby bells and cable companies at an unfair disadvantage. Oh boo freakin' hoo. Finally the argument becomes --we can't have cheap broadband in rural areas because it would mean these telecoms wouldn't have a license to fuck the nation and block out anybody's attempt to start up a small rural ISP with broadband ISP grade bandwidth which is NOT a T1. That's what happens when you put government haters in charge of the government. They have to prove their point and their point was negative from the outset so if they don't fuck everything up they feel like they didn't do their job.

Re:90kB/s is good?

[Curtman]

kB/s. Not kb/s.

Incorrect Bit Conversions

[Prizm]

It seems that the submitter for the story incorrectly converted the network bits/bytes. He stated that 20-50KBytes/sec = 160-360Kbits/sec and that 80-95KBytes/sec = 640-760kbits/sec.

As you can see, he's using the common "8 bits = 1 byte". However, that's not correct for network traffic. It's actually "10 bits = 1 byte" due to the network start and stop bits.

Just thought I'd point that out for clarification.

Re:Incorrect Bit Conversions

[certsoft]

As you can see, he's using the common "8 bits = 1 byte". However, that's not correct for network traffic. It's actually "10 bits = 1 byte" due to the network start and stop bits.

That's true for asynch serial lines, but not for other types, such as ethernet.

Re:Incorrect Bit Conversions

[Tony-A]

That's true for asynch serial lines, but not for other types, such as ethernet.
True. More like 15-20 bits = 1 byte.
kbps measures the bit speed, the time from one bit to the next, excluding the effects of overhead.
kBbs measures the rate at which bytes are sent down the pipe, including the effects of overhead.

Don't worry

[mangu]

...it will make sure you don't blow away satellite TV for the whole eastern seaboard

You are sending a 1W signal from a 90cm dish. TV goes at 100W from a 9 meter antenna, so your signal will be 40 dB below theirs. But you won't be able to get it right without their cooperation, it takes a certain amount of interaction with their control center to get the antenna aligned. Even with an installer cert, they'd probably charge you an installation fee every time you moved.

Here's the catch: the antenna must be small, to reduce the cost and make it easier to transport and install. At the same time, radiated power must be low enough to comply with regulations. The consequence is that the EIRP (equivalent isotropic radiated power) received by the satellite is at the very edge of what's detectable. The procedure seems easy because it's mostly automated, but you can't do it by yourself. I know all this because I work for a company that sells exactly the same service as Starband, outside the USA.

Re:Don't worry

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you could just get a Motosat Datastorm. I have one on my RV--it works very well.

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[Anonymous Coward]

"Badly" is incorrectly used. The word you are looking for is "poorly." Just one grammar buff to another.

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[SuperKendall]

I've seen a number of posts before on /. about Starband - in fact even better than the link in the story is a Slashdot search for Starband.

Personally, I don't mind that they omit those details as I've always felt that stories here assume a certain level of basic knowledge from previous reading - I like it that way in fact as I do not have to wade through fluff in the articles.

You Guys All Missed The Obvious One

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm shocked that no one commented on the unfettered spirit of humanity demonstrated in this comment.

"Well, I guess I will ride her till she falls over and dies."

That's the spirit tiger! ;)

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[zulux]

called "hyperlinks" and take you to other places on the "internet"


I have the internet in my hard-drive under the desk - sometimes though, it disappears and clicking on the "e" doesen't work. Sometimes, though, clicking on the "N" works, and the internet works.

Gotta go - the paperclip is helping me write a letter.

It's not sunspots

[mangu]

The effect you mention is called "solar interference", but it has nothing to do with sunspots. It happens when the sun, as seen from your antenna, passes exactly behind the satellite. The sun emits so much radio noise that it drowns the satellite signal. At other times of the year, the sun is either higher or lower in the sky and never gets in perfect alignment with the satellite, so its noise doesn't get focused by the antenna parabola.

Re:Once upon a time, slashdot was a peacefull plac

[Anonymous Coward]

I've noticed that too. I'm not quite sure why they strip some comments. With the image that Slashdot seems to want to portray of being a protector of civil rights it seems contradictory.

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[Elbereth]

You're right. I knew that it was wrong, but I couldn't come up with "poorly". That's what happens when you give up caffeine and turn 30. Ah, to return to the days of my youth when I really knew everything...

Then move to the city you stupid hick.

[glrotate]

You don't have a right to live in the boonies and expect everyone else to foot the bill for all of your modern conveniences.

So try the competition instead

[jlrowe]

A friend of mine has this service and really likes it:

http://www.directpc.com/

Re:So try the competition instead

[Anonymous Coward]

>A friend of mine has this service and really likes it:

He didn't have AOL first, did he?

I can't think of anything else bad enough that would make me put up with this.

three R's

[twitter]

The three R's for today are Readin, Riten, and Ranting.

Where the fsck did the people who ran these business get their degrees? I mean, for god's sake, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if your company is 2 billion in debt maybe you shouldn't pay like 50 million to liscense a stadium (titan's adelphia stadium). Or perhaps you shouldn't get those $100,000 sun boxen. Always a favourite of mine - listening to all this super expensive brand-new equipment these companies have. Ebay anyone?

The people who run these companies are NOT going bankrupt pilfering them. If you have kept up with this Adelphia story you might have noticed that the owners gave themselves $2,000,000,000 loans and that kind of thing to subsidise their livestyles.

As Dogbert once said, "I can't tell you what I'm going to do with the company's assets, but it rhymes with villiage."

Next time, Read before you Rant stuff that ain't right.

Hasta la vista, Enrondelphia!

[MsGeek]

No duh Adelphia is next. I'm packing up my stupid piece of crap Terayon TeraPro modem and giving it back to them as soon as DSLExtreme gives me the high-sign.

TeraPro is a kludge that allows cable companies without fiber plant to run cable modem over coax. It is notoriously unreliable. Here's details to wince over: Terayon: the TeraPro proprietary cable system

Adelphia saddled us with this setup because they were unwilling to string fiber and set things up the right way with DOCSIS. I look forward to seeing them run out of town on a rail.

Re:News For News, Stuff That Isnt Familliar To Any

[Anonymous Coward]

Bowie, for one last final merciful time: would you please FUCK OFF and leave slashdot for good. Your incessant bitching got old about 2 years ago. Thank You.

Re:Once upon a time, slashdot was a peacefull plac

[Anonymous Coward]

All posts that don't score 1 or better don't go into the archive. Is that so hard to comprehend?

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[tuxedo-steve]

Before reading this, I had no idea who Starband was, what they did, where I might have known them from, etc.

Indeed. This kind of article is more the domain of FuckedCompany, IMHO.

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[dangermouse]

You're missing the point. The important thing here is that he's better than you. He's able to use "quotes" for "sarcastic effect", and to create a "mocking tone".

He also probably does not know who or what Starband is or why he should give a damn, and because he genuinely doesn't care, it follows that you are a fool for even potentially being interested. The fact that you are annoyed by the site editors' complete failure to impart any relevant details whatsoever to help you make up your mind merely indicates your incomplete indoctrination to the Snotty Dork Treehouse Club and outs you as an inferior geek-- despite the fact that he's just faking it himself.

How dare you ask for even a hook in a synopsis? After all, this is the internet. You can google for your own hook, you incompetent, lazy simpleton.

Re:Chapter 11

[Anonymous Coward]

Whew, that's a relief. I was really worried that good old Chapter 11 was going out of business, so I'm glad they're surviving.

Re:who needs high latency?

[jkirby]

I live on a mountain and I have no grid power or telephone, so cable and short-haul wireless is 100% out of the question. Although I would like to have a better solution, Starband works for me and I hope it stays.

I use Starband via the Ethernet port to a gateway running XP Pro. I use ICS and my down speeds are anywhere from 400 kb to 900 kb and I have seen it hum at over a meg. on late nights.

Up speeds and latency suck, but it is better than using the Avian Carrier Protocol.

I hear Tachyon kicks butt, but the price is was too hight (www.tachyon.com).

Direcway (www.direcway.com) sounds nice too and if something happens to Starband, I will switch to Direcway.

Re:News For News, Stuff That Isnt Familliar To Any

[Elbereth]

If any post deserved a Score:6, this one does. This is a masterpiece.

Re:Chapter 11

[Anonymous Coward]

Chapter 11 = reorganization

Chapter 7 = liquidation

In the first case, the bank is still working with you to help out, because it thinks it can get its money back some day. In the second case, it's bye bye blackbird. The U.S. bankruptcy code is complex and confusing, I don't blame anyone for mistaking the two.

Re:Chapter 11

[fred911]

The 1st case the fed is requiring the lenders to stand by while they (fed) figure out a way to pay creditors. Generaly, in either chapter, only secured creditors get paid.

Re:News For News, Stuff That Isnt Familliar To Any

[Enonu]

Yah, I know. This shit gets repetitive, doesn't it? The same damn thing happens on TV too. Like this on network, ESPN only friggen talks about sports games, sports management, and the like. Touchdown this, goal that, can't they be more original? Who cares who fouled who and why? I mean, I could code a PERL script for this, and I bet it'd be an even more exciting report than if a real game were involved! Sheesh!

Oh. Sorry. I forgot to add the right formatting tags to all of my post

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[Tony-A]

Ah, to return to the days of my youth when I really knew everything...
From an old fart, twice 30 is young.
/. editors are really headline writers with the object being to stir up controversy. Generally, any journalism is in the comments. Still the headline blurb was significantly more informative than the linked blurb from the CEO of Starband.

From the parent post. And to think I once saw Slashdot as journalism's great shining democratic hope.
For all I know it is. It does tend to be the only source of unbiased information. Sure there's bias and best to take everything with a few lumps of salt, but if there is unbiased information to be had, the most likely place to find it is /. The information is not politically correct, no bias showing, predigested pablum.

Re:Slashdot: antinews for nerds, nothing else matt

[Tony-A]

Sounds like an uninterested party is complaining about indadequate information to convince them that they should stay uninterested.
If you are an interested party, like you're using Starband, just the word "Starband" is enough.
It's talking about bit rates and proxys. Obviously something to do with internet connections. It could mention long ping times, but that starts to get far too wordy.

rural / food-growers / access rights

[fw3]

>Why do they have a right to broadband
I dunno, maybe because most of your food was produced by these people?
If you continue to treat rural folk as a second class

Well, not only does agriculture pay well, it is enshrined in federal subsidy programs ... Why?

It has been suggested that this is due to the fact that 'agriculture states', which are states with tiny populations effectively control the senate (roughly 1/3 of the senate is described as 'ag states'. These politicians therefor represent a constituency whose main priority is agribusiness. (Being as they are politicians you'll often see their pet bills being sold to the voters as 'good for family farms' ... Guess what? Many very large ag businesses are family farms)

So what we get is a voting block in the senate which represents a tiny fraction of the voting population, yet is large enough to cut political deals with very large benefits for thier constituents. (These low-pop states btw also get an 2 electoral college votes per state toward the presidential election.)

This observation comes from some interesting university research which looked at power balance in the US system from a mathmatical perspective. Google didn't find the study (which was written more than 10 years ago) but the obvious google keywords will turn up lots of interesting links (like why we subsidze Ethanol for motor-fuel).

So I'm sorry but a pitch for tossing any more of my tax money toward the ag-states doesn't sit very well with me ...

By the way, I grew up and worked on a a small farm and know very well what rewarding and diffucult work it can be.

Test, ignore

[Anonymous Coward]

Test submission

My Canberra ANU Aikido site