Slashdot Mirror


Trouble on the International Space Station

lewiz writes "The BBC News website has an article that explains the International Space Station has run into troubles due to one of four gyroscopes breaking down. They say while this is a serious problem it will not have any massive effect but it will have to be replaced quickly as the gyroscopes stabilise and control the flight."

32 of 106 comments (clear)

  1. Spin? by AgTiger · · Score: 5, Funny

    NASA tries to spin the lack of spin. There's just something wrong about this...

  2. Reported in the other story by shird · · Score: 4, Informative

    The In Space, No One Knows You Read Vogue story, just two posts ago, had the supermodel report which seemed to already cover this.:

    They also reported a loud, growling noise inside the space station. It turned out to be a broken gyroscope that was commanded to spin down and then shut down. One of the bearings apparently seized up.

    NASA said the other gyroscopes were working fine and that the failure would not affect the station's navigation and control. But the bad unit will need to be replaced, and the soonest that can happen is early next year.

    --
    I.O.U One Sig.
  3. Delivered by Russians? by LinuxHam · · Score: 2

    I wonder if they'll have the Russians fly up the replacement if their rockets can handle something so big and heavy. They didn't seem to indicate that they even have spares ready, but I would assume they do.

    --
    Intelligent Life on Earth
    1. Re:Delivered by Russians? by polymath69 · · Score: 2
      Small? Compared to the size of a planet, maybe. These are stabilizing gyros, not navigational. Didn't read the article?

      The loss of function of the desk-sized 363 kilogramme (800 pound) gyro emerged after astronauts reported a loud, growling noise inside the International Space Station.

      On the other hand, that loud growling was probably the astronaut's libidos at the prospect of escorting supermodels.

      --

      --
      I don't want to rule the world... I just want to be in charge of mayonnaise.
    2. Re:Delivered by Russians? by Buran · · Score: 2

      Incorrect. Hubble was launched by Discovery on STS-31.

      However, all such missions (including the last HST maintenance flight) are now handled by Columbia, since she is too heavy to fly to the ISS with any kind of useful payload -- heavier materials were used for her construction -- so the rest of the fleet is tasked for ISS flights while Columbia remains on research duty -- the kind of flight the whole fleet used to fly.

    3. Re:Delivered by Russians? by Buran · · Score: 4, Informative

      No. Gyros have to be carried on board the Shuttle. They are not intended to be launched on board an unmanned rocket and must be manually lifted from the shuttle's payload bay using the Canadarm (RMS) and installed on the station by spacewalking astronauts with the help of a shuttle crew.

      From http://www.spaceflightnow.com/station/sts111/02060 8cmg/ :

      NASA has a spare CMG available, but it cannot be launched until early next year. That's because a CMG package - the gyro and necessary sub-assemblies - weighs some 1,100 pounds at launch and must be mounted on a special carrier beam in the shuttle's cargo bay. The next two shuttle flights, in August and October, will carry up huge sections of the station's solar array truss and don't have room for a CMG. As a result, the station may have to get by with three CMGs until early next year.

      However, what the Slashdot story failed to note is that redundancy: only two control moment gyros are required for full control. One failed, leaving the station with three. No need to panic yet -- and even if the last one fails, the Russian modules attached to the station (which seem to be forgotten now, since all the activity is on the US side) are capable of using conventional rocket thrusters to control the station.

    4. Re:Delivered by Russians? by Buran · · Score: 2

      Yep.

    5. Re:Delivered by Russians? by AJWM · · Score: 2

      Yeah, gyroscopes probably isn't even the right term, these things are momentum wheels used to soak up undesired angular momentum of the station (or occasionally to restore angular momentum in a desired direction.)

      --
      -- Alastair
    6. Re:Delivered by Russians? by IOdine · · Score: 2, Informative

      They look like they are about the size of an iMac, but I could be wrong. Here, take a look for yourself (they are the third image down the page).

      http://www.shuttlepresskit.com/ISS_OVR/assembly2 _o verview.htm

    7. Re:Delivered by Russians? by polymath69 · · Score: 2

      The image does not appear to have anything in it to convey a sense of scale, so you could be right and they might be Imac-sized. Still, the article said "desk-sized", so that's what I'll trust.

      --

      --
      I don't want to rule the world... I just want to be in charge of mayonnaise.
    8. Re:Delivered by Russians? by tommck · · Score: 2
      "No. Gyros have to be carried on board the Shuttle. They are not intended to be launched on board an unmanned rocket and must be manually lifted from the shuttle's payload bay using the Canadarm (RMS) and installed on the station by spacewalking astronauts with the help of a shuttle crew."


      Oh... you mean the GNU/Canadarm?

      T

      --
      ---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
    9. Re:Delivered by Russians? by Buran · · Score: 2

      *laugh*

      Yeah. :)

      RMS in this case stands for "Remote Manipulator System".

  4. From history... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We know that it took them 5 tries to build the Babylon space station, so really, still being on the first one here is pretty good. As long as the first few aren't sabotaged, and the fourth one isn't taken back in time, we're all good.

    Of course, maybe it would help if we had some of that fancy Vorlon technology, but I suppose Canadians are kinda mysterious and frozen like them, so that's close enough.

    1. Re:From history... by mindstrm · · Score: 2

      If I had mod points today, I'd mod that up.

      Man.. when are they going to release B5 on dvd? I want the whole damn series. I'll pay enormous sums of money for it.

    2. Re:From history... by Codifex+Maximus · · Score: 2

      When the Vorlons come back.

      --
      Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
  5. What happen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
    someone set up us the failed gyroscopes

    we get signal

    you are on your way to destruction

    you have no chance to survive make your time

  6. NO! by Subcarrier · · Score: 5, Funny

    At this point they would be a class one security hazard.

    If you're going to allow supermodels into a space station full of extremely horny astronouts, you'd better have five fully functioning gyroscopes.

    --
    "I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them." -- George H. W. Bush
  7. Re:redundancy by Budgreen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would hope they would be able to get by on at least 2 :) not a place you want a critical system to go down when a replacement is about half a year away!

    They seem to be having quite a few "critical" problems (control computers going offline and onto backup) That in the news are reported as being so bad but no real big deal.. I would like to see what the designers of ISS modules and the astronauts/cosmonauts have to say off the record about these problems.

    --
    The greatest right given is the right to be wrong...
  8. More Information.. by Planetes · · Score: 3, Informative

    As usual, spaceflightnow.com and space.com have better articles with more detail. These sites usually have space/shuttle/station information up very quickly so I tend to rely on them more.

    --
    Planetes
    "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promo Ad
    "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitl
    1. Re:More Information.. by Buran · · Score: 2

      But they don't let you view the Quicktimes anymore. I used to use them for catching launch replays and other things I couldn't catch due to time, forgetting, or being at work. Now they're locked behind a password, and I refuse to be nickel and dimed.

      Anyone know why spaceref.tv quit posting movies in a timely manner? Or, if they still post them, where they went?

  9. Re:redundancy by jackb_guppy · · Score: 2

    I bet that if a few super models - I think two could fit into a seat, now that is redundancy!

    We could get that replacement to them in the next shuttle.

    Then again Swedish Ski Team?

  10. haiku? by small_dick · · Score: 2

    failing gyroscope
    nasa transmits dance lessons
    breakdancing spacemen spin

    --


    Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
    See my user info for links.
  11. Re:redundancy by SkankhodBeeblebrox · · Score: 2, Informative

    From this article on Yahoo! News: Link

    "The loss of one gyro will not impact operations. In fact, the station can function with two. Even if three failed, the station can use thrusters for stability, but that means using up precious propellant that has to be flown up from Earth. The gyroscopes work on solar power.

    "To lose a CMG is a big deal; this is a major component, but from a risk perspective right now we're in good shape," flight director Paul Hill told reporters. "The next CMG we lose, there is going to be a gut check."


    I'd say they're not super-concerned at this point, but if one failed, another could fail quite easily...

  12. Why didn't they just... by Codifex+Maximus · · Score: 2

    design a space station using the doughnut shape? That way, they could kill two birds with one stone; spin the station to create artificial gravity and achieve gyroscopic stability. (That way, you don't really need discreet gyros)

    It's a nice staion but should be used to build a better station. Put manufacturing capabilities on it and let's move forward.

    --
    Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
    1. Re:Why didn't they just... by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      (* design a space station using [spinning] doughnut shape[.] That way, they could kill two birds with one stone; spin the station to create artificial gravity and achieve gyroscopic stability. *)

      I thot the purpose of a space station is to do anti-gravity research. If you spin it to make gravity, then you only have an expensive Earth emulator.

      I suppose you could have part of it spinning, and part of it not spinning, but that creates mechanical risks at the joint, and we are right back to the gyro-like problems again.

    2. Re:Why didn't they just... by Ziviyr · · Score: 2

      They could make a rotating doughnut shaped station with a non-rotating doughnut-hole for experimenting and docking.

      This could be very cool stuff!

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    3. Re:Why didn't they just... by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* They could make a rotating doughnut shaped station with a non-rotating doughnut-hole for experimenting and docking.*)

      But then you have the problem of going from the spinning section to the non-spinning section. If it is done with motors, then you have the problems already mentioned. If they are separate units, then you have to do time-consuming and risky thru-space transfers of people and materials.

  13. Lack of planning? by Shriek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I understand hardware will fail which is fine if wasn't due to negligence; what isn't fine though is the apparent lack of preparedness in handling the resolution of this situation.
    First, why did such a critical device fail so soon on the space station? I only ask that because it just seems like the more expensive a device is for the space shuttle or the space station the more easily it will fail. Does the level of criticality coincide with the level of fragility?
    Second, doesn't it bother anyone else that it may take up to a year to replace the one failed gyroscope? NASA has to make room on a future space shuttle mission in order to fly the replacement gyroscope up, fine I say, but I don't think that's the whole story as to why I will take so long to replace. NASA shouldn't be using the excuse that it would delay experiments or completion of the space station. The safety of the ISS crew is more important than getting some experiements completed.
    I think the issue should be why is NASA classifying this problem as low priority? Maybe NASA has done its risk analysis on the problem which would be fine except that there seems to be no oversight of the decision process.

    1. Re:Lack of planning? by NateTech · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If there's one thing NASA knows how to do, it's to plan things. This post and the tons of others like it shows what sheep people will be when reading a /. article. It also shows a complete lack of understanding of their process, procedures, and the fact that numerous others have posted: There's multiple redundant gyro systems on board. This whole article is FUD.
      Various books for reference to NASA's typical procedures exist. I enjoyed "Failure is Not An Option" by Gene Kranz (Flight Director), and "This New Ocean".
      It's Monday, I'm grumpy and I'm not putting links in -- find 'em yourself and learn something.

      --
      +++OK ATH
  14. Is it really a big deal ? by GTM · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When I was an intern in a company building satellites and rockets, local gurus told me that gyroscopes, with all their complex pieces moving fast, are the most failure-prone part of most satellites, and that's the reason why they usually have 4 gyros while only 3 are needed for normal operation, and 2 are enough for "degraded mode".
    Now one gyroscope of the ISS is out: granted, it's a bit early, but it is also a bit early to worry about the ISS's future. Remember Hubble: at the beginning, it sounded like the mission would be a complete failure... In the end, Hubble could be repaired, and it is now considered a complete success. Don't be too hasty when bashing space missions: this IS rocket science after all.

  15. Re:Backups? by alienmole · · Score: 2
    Yes, it has two backups, according to this space.com article. It has four gyroscopes but only needs two to maintain attitude.

    But it wouldn't be very interesting to report this story factually, since it literally has no effect on the station's operation, except requiring that another gyroscope be installed before not the next one, but the one after that fails.

  16. To misquote by Salsaman · · Score: 2
    Your idea of a doughnut shaped space station intrigues me Homer...