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Hong Kong's Octopus
Reuters is carrying an interesting story about Hong Kong's Octopus smart card system, which serves as a mass-transit fare card and is now being accepted by merchants for small purchases. A magazine cover story from last year goes more into depth. Interesting to note that the system started off anonymous, and is now being converted into a personally-trackable system.
i work in transit consulting, and would be tickled to see even regional cooperation in fare collection. Of course, one of the big hurdles is that transit in the U.S. is generally all sorts of little authorities, transit districts, and other independent government instruments. ;)
one solution? EZPass-style collection, where the agencies divide up the dough after charges are incurred, according to whose facility (bridge, road, whatever) was used...
of course, for that to work, you have to tell them who you are and where you've been...
The good senators from Illinois are the ones keeping the penny alive. They have some sentimental thing going on with Lincoln and they step in everytime anyone gets serious about killing the penny. The only way the mint will get around this problem is to make a $2 coin with Lincoln on it. They have to reserve the $1 for Washinton when they drop the paper dollar except for some limited edition ones but that will cause even more of a political problem.
Lemme say this again.... The Octopus card is optional.... you can ride the Bus, Subway, Star ferry, subway to the customs for China by paying cash. No one forces you to get a Octopus card.
... if you change bus you pay again.
However saying that, I have one myself and would remark at its conviecne. When I went on vacation to HK and China a while ago, I stayed in H.K. for ~10 days and I even got one myself. No more
looking for correct change at bus stations or
subway depots. It is really convenient. And yes, you can buy one anonymously. When you go pick them up (pay HKD50 for deposit) you are given
the OPTION to personalize, but you don't have it.
For those in Canada/USA the buses operate somewhat differently, there is no 'transfers' or whatever they're called in H.K. For example in Toronto you only pay one fair for each one way trip and you get a transfer for when you change bus or subways. In Hong Kong you pay each time you get on a bus, train, subway
Whereas in most places the ticket prices for bus or subway is fixed (I know its like $2 in Toronto, Canada) its different in Hong Kong. The price for subways and buses depends on approximately how far you travel (by approximately I mean say they divide one bus route into 5 zones and set a certain price if you travel within one zone and different if you travel though one zone, two zone,etc)
The combination of the above two factors is probably why the Octopus system became popular. People got really annoyed carrying large amounts of change at all times (remember, buses don't give change). This is very different from the way most public transit (bus/subway) work in North American cities.
-- Note: These Comments are Generated by ME! Not You! ME!
I have one in my wallet at the moment. One of the best things about it, is that I can charge it up with HKD1000 or so, and then just leave it in my wallet. Then, whenever I am in HK (once a month or more) I can just get on and off the subway, buy lunches and newspapers and more, without the hassle of carrying currency every single trip, no making change, no collecting coins, etc. It's wonderful.
And let me stress again, it's completely anonymous. You buy the cards with cash; you refill them with cash.
That's not to say that some future system will have "opt in for a special deal" features, which you can accept/reject just like you accept/reject loyalty cards. In fact, having some sort of personalisation may enable you to make a phone call to cancel your card should it be stolen. And that would be a good thing.
I can't help but think much of the knee-jerk negativity in here is simple jealousy. Octopus is a fantastically popular, totally secure, wonderfully convenient system. Perhaps some posters secretly wish that their local governments had the balls to introduce something as clever.
Also, it's OLD NEWS. The system has been running for ages.
I'm in Hong Kong and have been designing train stations for 10 years. Your Dude is so wrong.
It's great that it senses within 1cm of the plate - but you have to pause slightly for it to confirm the transaction. Also even if you want to you can't use the same card for multiple payments - say paying for your girl friend's ride on your card after paying for your own.
It is not disturbing that you don't know the price. It's like a toll road - you travel a certain distance and pay the amount. Once you get to the toll gate you can't go "Uh that's too much - I'm gonna go back now".
Octopus in HK is so important for transit - the flowrates through the gates had to be increased along with all the calculations for the number of people on the platforms. The extra second it saves changes the way people use the system. With the density of movement the speed of passengers going through the Octopus gates affects the train frequency.
Without Octopus the system would not run as well for passengers or operators.
The funny thing is that you all think of it as Science Fiction, to us it is normal.... just wait 'til you see the mile long escalator that climbs from Central to Mid-Levels.....
Eh sorry sir but these ones you don't even have to take out of you wallet. My very tall friend just pass his ass wallet and all over the scanner when he goes pass the gate.
The dude doesn't even need to take his wallet out.
Be sure and pick up one of these. They have a great tourist deal that has a 3-day unlimited use of the subway and a return trip on the airport express. If you do this, be sure and check your bags in at the downtown station. They will be checked through all the way to the plane.
The correct links are here and here.
"So far no one has built a smart card that has enough grunt to do real hard crypto in a reasonable about of time while making the chip so it can't be inspected in a way to find out its secrets. We have a long way to go before someone comes up with a contactless card that can do a transaction faster than two people who are good at handling cash. "
This just isn't true for contact cards. Modern smart cards can do 1024 bit RSA operations in about 300 ms, and there are card technologies (SiShell from Schlumberger, for example) that make it extraordinarily difficult to attack the physical chip. By the end of this year, combi cards (with both a contact and contactless interface) will be available for the RSA enabled cards. You won't be able to just wave the card over a reader, but you won't have to hold in place for very long - and certainly faster than a cash transaction.
1) Each sensor is designed to charge your card only once. So if you put your card on the sensor back and forth several times, it's charge once. So if you want to pay for your girl friends ticket. You don't put your card on the sensor twice, you have to buy her a ticket or buy her a seperate Octopus card.
2) If you do not use the Octopus, you can always use the coin machine around to get a magnetic ticket to the trip, but using Octopus you'll get a discount.
3) Now for the rate. The Octopus sensor on the buses have a clear amount shown right above the sensor, so you know exactly what you are paying for. For the subway system, the amount they charge you depends on the destination. Upon entering the subway, the sensor only records the location of entry, so when you exit the system they know exactly how much to charge you.
When the Octopus first come out of the market, it is used almost exclusively in the Subway system. I guess, most business would not border installing an Octopus machine. Not even the bus system was willing to use it. People go to work everyday and transportation is a main issue. After years of deployment, most people have an Octopus card in their pocket, acceptance of the Octopus just multiply exponentially.
Erm, it doesn't have personally-trackable info. I certainly didn't provide any when I had an octopus card a couple of years back, you just pay a one-time deposit when buying the card, simply to ensure you have an incentive not to loose it. If you return the card, you get your deposit back. IIRC, it's about HK$250 (£25 or US$35). Just to make sure my memory wasn't going completely crazy, I checked the article: Unless a holder chooses a personalized card, his or her identity is unknown.
And it truly is a fantastic system. You simply wave your wallet over the reader as you walk through the turnstile and it just deducts the money. Every time you go through, it tells you how much is remaining on the card, and they even have a grace system whereby as long as the card is in credit, it will always let you through the turnstile, even if the credit isn't sufficient for the journey (which works as the card has value to you, so it's in your interests to top it up).
With fares on the MTR really cheap, you don't need to recharge it all that often, and when you do, the recharge process takes about 30 seconds, which is less than it takes me to buy a single ticket on the London Underground.