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Inside the Cult of TiVo
StudMuffin writes: "A group of TiVo enthusiasts from over at the TiVo Community Forum recently got together. About 100 people showed up to roast weenies and swap TiVo hacks and screen names. This is just plain cool, if you ask me. TiVo rocks. Of interest, however, was the representation of the TiVo company and the fact that they didn't fight to stop hacking their product. Does this relationship between hi-tech companies and hackers act as a model of how this relationship can work? TiVo even seems tolerant of really hardcore hacks as discussed on /. in the past."
Tivo has stopped hacking in the past. Any hack that gets lets you use outside channel data is stopped by Tivo. Also, I believe they tried to stop a hack that allowed you to extract the mpeg video from a tivo.
Other than those examples though, Tivo has been extremely tolerant of hacks.
According to Tiger, who wrote the MFS Tools application that is used to add/expand drives, most of his handouts for the new version went to TiVo employees and engineers.
Speaking of MFS Tools 2.0, you can do all sorts of nifty adds and expansions with it - including adding and expanding the A Drive on Series2 units.
More on MFS Tools 2.0 here.
TiVo was pretty vocal about not supporting the hack that allowed you to extract video from the TiVo. They asked Dave Bott, the guy that runs tivocommunity.com, not to allow talk about it. The new Series 2 TiVos have been changed so that you can't make hacks (like TiVoweb, telnet access and FTP) that are persistant across reboots.
They are miles above most companies, but they still are not 100% hacker friendly.
tk
As any regularly hacking TiVo owner will tell you, the company is not merely tolerant of people who hack their product, but supportive. The latest version of the TiVo software includes built-in support for the 3rd party network adapters (TiVoNET and TurboNet). It's this kind of technical interaction that gives me hope not just for hacking, but for development of open source solutions.
Err.. that hasn't happened. They (and we) have discouraged such hacks, but Tivo's taken no real action to stop them from occuring.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Guiding this sorta back onto topic...
:)
. ph p?s=&threadid=62906
TiVo-ites from the forums in the Chicago area (and beyond) are also planning to have TiVo BBQ this August.
Don't know yet how many TiVo employees are going to show up but if you read the forums and are in mid-america you should show up.
Information on the get together is at:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread
http://www.WinWithRealEstate.com/
TiVo may have once been hacker frienldy, but they cured that once and for all with the release of the Series 2 units.
Thes units contain a "tripwire" like function in the boot EPROM! So far, this has prevented anyone from managing to make ANY changes (other than addeing a second drive) to the inits.
I was VERY anoyed when I found this out AFTER buying a new Series 2 unit. Yes, I was dumb not to check things out more before buying, but the faster CPU, and more memory sounded good to me.
So, if you want to hack your TiVo, buy a (used) Series 1.
DON"T but a Series2!
Courtesy JamesW on the tivocommunity board.
TiVo in Australia FAQ
Version 1.3
Q: Can I use TiVo in Australia?
A: Yes, you can - well, the series 1 standalone boxes anyway. With some work you can get quite close to the level of functionality of a subscribed US TiVo - live TV guide, control of your Foxtel satellite or Optus Vision set top box, and so on - plus all the standard "trick play" TiVo features - pause, fastforward, rewind and slow advance of live TV.
Q: Which TiVo should I buy?
A: You should get a standalone series 1 unit, and preferably a Phillips unit since the disk layout is easier to expand than the one in the Sonys. You can pick these up reconditioned for not much money (say USD140 plus shipping), or off eBay for slightly more. You're probably best off getting the smallest unit you can find (usually a 14 hour unit) and then upgrading it with a bigger drive yourself, which is an easy process and is explained in depth at Hinsdale's excellent FAQ. You should try to get a unit with the 1.3 software loaded, since it allows manual recording with minimal nagging and generally it is better understood than the later software versions (2.0.5, 2.5.1). I don't believe the UK (PAL) TiVo units are as good a deal as the US ones, particularly as an unsubscribed UK unit is essentially useless.
Q: How much is it going to cost me?
A: Well, it depends on what you buy. As mentioned above, you can sometimes get a reconditioned Phillips HDR-112 for about USD140, or more off eBay. Then there is ~USD24 shipping and handling they tack on automatically. Then using USPS to Australia for the TiVo unit itself (it weighs about 9kg) comes to USD95 at the moment and takes three to five days. So that's about USD260 just to get the unit to Australia. After that, if you want a new, bigger drive you can get a 40GB one for AUD150 (that's the best price I've seen in Sydney in May 2002).
Q: What happens if my TiVo goes wrong?
A: Upgrading the drive in your TiVo voids your warranty. If you have only done software modifications to your TiVo through the serial port you can probably send it back to the place you bought it from in the US, as long as it is still under warranty. Remember that shipping it to the US will probably cost you about USD100 each way - it might be more sensible to buy a new TiVo.
Q: What about the TiVo's power supply? Do I have to use a 110V transformer?
A: No. The TiVo device itself has an auto-switching power supply, so if you have an appropriate adapter you can plug it directly into an Australian 240V wall socket (the TiVo doesn't use the ground prong). For a slightly tidier solution you can easily replace the TiVo cord with an Australian version - you'll see the type of cord it uses, you can buy replacements at Dick Smith etc. Be prepared to force the replacement cord in a little, since the TiVo uses a slightly non-standard shape for the plug.
Q: The TiVo boxes are American, so they use NTSC. Can I view PAL programming on them?
A: Yes. You can use Tridge's Palkit to modify your TiVo to support PAL - it's a piece of software that you run from the rc.sysinit. You can get instructions on how to use it here, and the software itself for 1.3, 2.0.5 and 2.5.1 TiVos. The 2.0.5 and 2.5.1 software isn't done by Tridge, and it's NZ-centric - bear this in mind if you intend to replace the TiVo's tuner to pick up FTA signals in Australia.
Q: What's this about replacing the tuner? I thought you said the TiVo will understand PAL after you install the Palkit?
A: It does, but the tuner doesn't. This isn't a big problem if you don't intend to use the TiVo's tuner anyway. If you plug your TiVo into your settop box or your VCR via RCA cables and allow the settop box or VCR to perform the tuning function, you don't need to worry about replacing the TiVo's tuner.
If you only have FTA where you are and you plan to plug the antenna directly into the TiVo, then you will have to replace the TiVo's tuner with a PAL-compatible one. This is an involved process involving soldering and as such is beyond me - watch this space for some pictures in the not-too-distant future. Fellow Australian TiVo activist Aussie may be able to help with the tuner mod, PM Aussie or myself for Aussie's email address. Note that as far as I am aware no one has found a PAL-compatible tuner which also supports stereo from Australian FTA channels - only mono. This is because we use a strange sub-variant of PAL broadcast that most tuners don't understand fully.
Q: Can I just use the TiVo as a basic digital VCR?
A: Yes, you can modify it to accept PAL, and then there is a script to allow it to accept composite in. You can then schedule recordings manually. Note that you really are much better off with a 1.3 TiVo if this is your aim.
Q: What's the TiVo experience like?
A: The menus and so on are scrunched up somewhat on the screen, because they were designed for NTSC and are therefore 45 lines of resolution too small. This doesn't look bad.
Slightly more annoying is the "green bar" that shows progress through the recording. It is a bit more obtrusive than on US systems because it is about 1/5 of the way up the screen from the bottom, and it is inaccurate because it calculates time elapsed based on NTSC's 60 frames per second instead of the 50 you get with PAL. This makes it show your recording as being shorter than it really is. (This doesn't cause recordings to be cut off or anything, it just means that your progress through the show isn't accurately shown.)
Otherwise, using the TiVo is great! Pauses are clear, fast forwards are, well, fast; slow motions are everything the words "slow" and "motion" lead you to expect. There is about a second's delay when changing channels (the TiVo needs to tell the settop box to change channels, then it spools up a bit less than a second of the live broadcast to give itself time to encode and display the live TV), but for me this is more than made up for by the way that the TiVo tells you what is currently playing on the channel you are switching to.
Q: Can the TiVo control my cable/satellite box?
A: Depends. It will control the Optus Vision cable box (via the IR blaster included with the TiVo) and the Foxtel satellite box (via IR blaster too). I don't know about the Austar box. Note that you cannot (as yet) control the Foxtel cable box from the TiVo, despite some serious effort.
Q: Can I get Australian TV guide data into my TiVo?
A: Yes. First, you need to set up something called a "headend" on your TiVo that basically tells it what stations you receive, what they are called, and so on. In order to do this, you need Tridge's Guidekit, but Tridge is getting a bit uncomfortable about the number of Guidekits going out. If you PM me I will send you out a channel file which you can modify to suit your local situation. If you then send it back to me I will generate a headend for you and send you the scripts required to get it up and running.
In the longer term I intend to set up a web site with some prebuilt headends for various locations in Australia.
Once you have a headend set up, you can use a series of Perl scripts written by Dr. Warren Toomey to collect Australian TV guide data from www.sofcom.com.au/tv. PM me for the URL for Warren's web site. Visit Sofcom to see what channels they have schedules for.
For the avoidance of all doubt : Warren's software and Tridge's Guidekit are for TiVos in Australia only. Their respective software licences prohibit you from using their software in any country where TiVo's service is available. We want TiVo to survive, and we won't be part of any form of service theft.
Edits : 1. Some small changes, added in Aussie's mention of help for the tuner mod, and pointed out that the Foxtel cable box can't be controlled. 2. And spelling! Added the question about the TiVo experience. 3. Changed the details about the Guidekit.
Last edited by JamesW on 05-29-2002 at 02:31 PM
El Karma: excelente(principalmente la suma de moderación hecha a los comentarios de los usuarios)
reasonable lifetime fee
I disagree. The "lifetime fee" is the lifetime of the unit. I purchased one of the first units with the "lifetime subscription". I recently went to order a new box because I got sick of reinstalling TiVOnet after every upgrade (fixed in 3.0 finally). I was told I would have to pay another "lifetime" fee, so I would have enough TiVO for two lifetimes appearantly.
I'm not saying this is unfair, but I think the company should better clarify "lifetime" to people buying the machines.
To clarify the subsidy/manuracturing issues..
Neither Philips nor Sony ever manufactured TiVo boxes directly. All TiVos roll off a third-party OEM assembly line in Mexico. Philips-branded boxes are just the TiVo reference design, Sony specified some minor changes and a different (nicer in my opinion, but others disagree) remote control. TiVo even handles the technical support for Philips.
As for subsidies, TiVo did pay a subsidy with the Series 1 boxes (no longer manufactured), but does not do so with the Series 2 boxes being built now, which is a major step forward in their path to profitability.
Where are you that you don't think you have local program listings available?
A Series 1 TiVo that came with version 1.3 or earlier of the TiVo software factory-installed (even if it upgraded to a later version) does not require a subscription - it can be used with manual programming if you don't mind a nag screen that comes up when you go to schedule a recording. Anything newer won't record without a subscription.
Whoa there! I feel like /. has been overrun by Tivo employees or something with all the gushing going on in this thread. ("Cult" of Tivo indeed!) Let's try to remember:
1) Tivo forcing users to record programs
2) The Privacy Foundation's report on Tivo points out that
a) Your Tivo serial number is sent multiple times during each phone call and there is no way to guarantee data is truly treated anonymously except to trust Tivo.
b) Tivo's definition of "personal" information is significantly more narrow than the average privacy policy reader would assume, and so guarantees about your "personal" information are hollow.
c) Tivo suggests that the viewing information is never transmitted. In fact, all of the constituent pieces of the personal viewing information are transmitted to TiVo's computers.
d) TiVo should disclose that their customer-identified diagnostic log can indicate when the TiVo remote control was in use.
3) Anyone heard of Replay TV here? They are actively fighting Hollywood to defend your rights. When a judge tried to force them to spy on users, they fought it. When Hollywood said users shouldn't be allowed to send programs to other devices, they fought it. When the networks said your skipping commercials was "theft", they fought it. I think a company that does all this for the privacy and rights of its users deserves our support (or at least a MENTION on this page).
Brian
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First, I love my Tivo. It's great for recording the boob tube.
However...
A friend of mine, after hearing a bunch of us talk about nice the Tivo was, bought one of the new "Series 2" machines. He wasn't sure he was going to keep it, so he didn't subscribe. After the "trial period" ran out, he can no longer record manually (time and channel, without the guide).
It appears from various comments around the 'net that the "Series 2" machines cannot be used as manual recorders. Now, using a Tivo as a manual PVR kinda defeats the purpose of the thing (IMHO), but the older units can be used manually (i.e., without a subscription) and people may think this is still possible with the newer units.
Yes, I understand that their business model is to get the money from the subscriptions. I'm just pointing out something I had not heard about (that manual recording without a subscription is no longer possible). I was a bit surprised to learn this, in fact.
Milalwi