Slashdot Mirror
Inside the Cult of TiVo
StudMuffin writes: "A group of TiVo enthusiasts from over at the TiVo Community Forum recently got together. About 100 people showed up to roast weenies and swap TiVo hacks and screen names. This is just plain cool, if you ask me. TiVo rocks. Of interest, however, was the representation of the TiVo company and the fact that they didn't fight to stop hacking their product. Does this relationship between hi-tech companies and hackers act as a model of how this relationship can work? TiVo even seems tolerant of really hardcore hacks as discussed on /. in the past."
Tivo is a wonderful tool for optimizing the time you spend watching TV. I miss a lot of shows that I would like to watch, and I am happy to see a product out their to help the non banker hours peeps get the most out of their 90 dollar a month cable bill. Now, if only we could come up with a Linux tool to do record TV with tv in, and have a similiar recording engine comparable to Tivo. I would be willing to donate something to that project, cuz monthly fees suck. My .02
"On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."
Maybe the people at Tivo still get it that crossing your paying customers will cost you your paying customers, so they do not harass the hackers. Besides, If I buy a Tivo, it's my personal property. I have the right to use it as I see fit, no matter what the MPAA or television networks say. By the way, If I share my recordings of free broadcast TV how is that stealing?
How ya like dat?
I wonder if Tivo has tried to recruit any of the people that have developed any of the more popular hacks, be they "legal" or not. If I were running a company and found someone who had the skill to come up with good hacks on the hardware that I was manufacturing, I would want them on the payroll.
Tivo doesn't make money off the hardware. (In fact, the hardware is made by Phillips and Sony, and I think I saw once that TiVo actually PAYS Phillips and Sony a small subsidy per box.)
TiVo's revenue stream is from their *service* - I have a friend that works for them, and he basically says that their attitude is that it's anything goes for hackers, in fact they secretly cheer them on.
BUT, that's as long as the hackers don't go near their revenue stream. Try to screw with their channel guide service/etc., and they will most definately NOT be supporting it. (I think someone basically said that TiVo went to some lengths to shut down people who did such things.)
Hackers upgrading mean:
a) TiVo doesn't have to pay the small subsidy on new boxes.
b) If the hacker installs a network card, it means they stop using the TiVo dialup system for updates.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Now that the technology has been debugged and the business case proved, why the hell can't we buy these things here?
Yes, I know Andrew Tridgell hacked one to make it work, but surely we don't have to go to that kind of effort to make it work . . .
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
That just doesn't happen. I'm always hauling home electronics that drive her nuts...
"Look honey! It's called X-10 and I can turn any light in the house on and off with this remote... What? Well, sure, replacing all those switches in the house did cost a little, but look - a remote! No, you can't just switch it off, the remote won't work anymore... Now, hon, put down the gun..."
She loved the Tivo however. So did I. So it had to go...
RinkRat
Doing PVR on the client side is a fundamentally flawed model. The server side model makes a lot more sense.
1) The economics of storing one copy of a programme on millions of client side devices compare very unfavourable to storing the content on even massively redundant servers.
2) Hard disks have a high MTBF when compared to existing media, VHS, DVD. Consumers will not accept the total loss of content with a HD failure. The economics of on-site mainternance require the simplest client possible.
3) A server side solution can 'record' essentially an all channels, the resource requirements are order N. A client side solution requires exponential amounts of hardware to allow all clients to record all channels, order N^N hardware.
4) The efficience of a server side solution means that more content can be recorded, even unselected historical choices.
http://www.tivo.com/linux
I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
Back in the 60's and 70's, people could buy kits to make a computer. Today, hobbyists can still do similar things-- but the spirit is not the same. I build R/C cars and 99% of the fun is just tweaking it out. I've also added a hard drive to my TiVo. I enjoy tinkering with things like this, and a lot of other people do, too.
TiVo could go a step further, by giving users a small how-to guide for basic TiVo hacking. Things like adding Hard Drive's, enabling hidden features, etc. It would be a new (or revistalized?) idea: Customizable Consumer Electronics. It's like you're building a component Stereo system, except the components are all in one box.
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
Your argument is fallacious.
First, doing anything you want with your gun is not comparable to giving away a copy of a broadcast tv show. A pvr is not a lethal weapon unless you throw it really hard at someone's head. You can't stick up a gas station with a tivo. You can't do a drive-by shooting with a tivo. I can just see walking into a bank and handing the teller the following note: "put all the money in your drawer in a bag. I have a TIVO!"
(btw, I'm not suggesting gun control. Just disputing the example.)
Second, there is no license. There is no agreement, verbal or written, that says I can't watch a free broadcast show without agreeing to it. (equiv or not to an EULA)
Third, a more appropriate comparison is my taping a show for later loaning to a friend.
Is this illegal? I don't believe so. The only difference between watching a borrowed tape of a broadcast and watching one transferred from a friend's tivo is the media. The industry complains that this is stealing, but how is it different?
They tried to stop blank tape sales, but it didn't hurt the program viewing (probably helped it, actually).
One might argue that a tivo recording is digital and then can be transferred to someone else digitally, keeping a perfect copy. The problem with this viewpoint is that it's not perfect in the first place unless the broadcast was digital. And we still have the problem of making a copy of the broadcast on tape.