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Copyright Office Publishes Final Webcasting Rates

Ghaleon writes: "The Copyright Office just released the final rates for webcasting. Looks like the rates are lower than the CARP recomendations, though I'm no webcaster so I'm not sure if these rates are good or not ..." nbrimhall points to a bit more at soma fm as well. Update: 06/20 21:54 GMT by M : See our last story for background information. The final rates are nothing to cheer about: most webcasters will not be able to afford them. Update: 06/21 03:13 GMT by T : An anonymous reader points out the continuing coverage at kurthanson.com, including reactions from Reps. Boucher and Inslee.

21 of 393 comments (clear)

  1. Still gonna knock most hobbyist webcasters out by acroyear · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The Librarian established September 1, 2002, as the effective date of the rates. That does not mean that no royalties are due for webcasters' activities prior to September 1. Webcasters and others using the statutory licenses will have to pay royalties for all of their activities under the licenses since October 28, 1998.

    So either cough up 10s of thousands of dollars to pay for your theft of copyrights for the last 4 years, or take your hobby into the toilet. Doesn't matter that you only had, say, 10 listeners at a time or that the stuff you play doesn't belong to RIAA labels or that you had 0 income related to your webcasting. You still owe.

    --
    "But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
    -- Joe
  2. This is great news. by EpochVII · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And heres why: only unsigned bands will be able to get on U.S. net radio stations. Seriously, fark the RIAA. The other good news is all the streams with copyrighted music will be overseas, either hosted there or run by foreigners, it doesnt really matter. Either way more people will be looking overseas to give the finger to the U.S.

    This really does make me sad, though. Hopefully this will jumpstart artists to move to more independent labels.

  3. Webcasters were hoping for a percentage rate by svferris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with this rate is that it's still based on the number of songs the station broadcasts. Most webcasters were hoping for a rate based on a percentage of their revenue. But, this was rejected.

    So, even with this reduced rate, we're still going to see almost all webcasters go out of business. It's even going to be hard for the big businesses. I work for a large internet radio company, and I was just told by our exec in charge of working with the RIAA that our rates would probably go up about $500,000-600,000/yr from our current rate. He said one reason is because even if a user skips a song, it still counts as a play.

    For more info, I highly suggest checking out RAIN (Radio And Internet Newsletter).

  4. The end result by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, the government has spoken, and the rates have been set, at a level high enough to kill webcasting as we know it. The RIAA must be cheering -- if they're not planning some sort of appeal to raise the rates even higher.

    Personally, I think the RIAA has just finished the job of cutting its own throat.

    Let's look at the facts: These rates apply to "commonly available" music, as a default royalty system. Webcasters are free to sign contracts with content performers and bypass these rates entirely. "But there's nothing good out there!" For now, perhaps.

    Thing is, broadband is spreading like wildfire, as is the potential audience for webcasters, and more people will be edging to push their way into it. I'd expect to see underground webcasting stations pushing unknown bands grow common, and then some of them (both stations and bands) will grow increasingly popular. Meanwhile the bands pushed by the big labels (and big prices) will seem more and more stale.

    The end result will be the decline and fall of the record companies, which will probably drag their signed artists down with them. Oh well.

    1. Re:The end result by beme · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Somehow I think the RIAA's main goal was to kill webcasting as _we_ know it, and rebuild as they want it. Then when the broadbrand wildfire has covered all the Joe Public's out there, the RIAA will be in complete control of this new medium, and do what they will with it, just like regular commercial radio.

      I dunno.. just a thought.

      Since stations get charged per connection even if you don't listen to the whole song, pick your favorite RIAA-sponsored broadcaster and whip up a script to connect/disconnect over and over and over and ...

      :)

      --

      -beme
      1971
  5. Re:What's with the complaints? by baka_boy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Traditional radio stations pay the rates and fees that they do, at least in part, because they are given slices of the "public" radio bandwidth by the FCC for their broadcasts.

    The biggest problem with the new rate structure is that completely non-commercial, amateur Internet broadcasts, which are entirely *legal* (unlike their radio equivalents) will be *effectively* prohibited by the fees, tracking requirements, and back royalties enforced by the FCC.

    Today we see another fine example of the federal government becoming the enforcement arm for major corporate interests. This new fee system was not made to benefit consumers, or to protect the innovative world of Internet audio broadcast, but to answer the fears of the RIAA.

    Big conglomerates already own something like 80% of the radio stations in this country, and this new set of regulations will give them all the bargaining chips in snapping up any popular Internet stations. So much for finding new, interesting music on the 'net...it'll be Top 40 for everyone, from here on out.

  6. Tag's Trance Trip off the air by djneko · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Reposted from digitally imported's forums

    I don't know how it will affect DI, but if anyone was listening to Tag's Trance Trip, he shut off just before 3pm Pacific Time.

    He was in tears thanking everyone.

    Last song on the air was "Days go by" by Dirty Vegas

    The anarchy of the net can prevail though. As streams drop off the air (every shoutcast stream may be affected), we must trade the files via FTP and P2P networks if we are to stop the music cartels. Blank cds are cheap, hand out cds full of mp3s with information about what has been done to our beloved streams.

    As the streams are shut off, open up the archives and distribute them. Show them how much worse it will get when they block off one avenue of our expression.

    Our culture should not be locked away from us and sold back to us.
    ------------------

    The ideas contained herein are free to republish by anyone not affiliated in any way shape or form with the RIAA and MPAA

    --
    `/\/\
    (^.^)
    (")(")
    not quite an analog pussy, just a cat that plays with vinyl
  7. Civil disobedience by ryanwright · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's time for civil disobedience.

    It's time for someone to setup a streaming radio app that works similar to P2P. Something that can't be shut down.

    This is total bullshit. Commercial stations don't pay $500 per day. Why should Somafm?

    I know the guy running Soma watches Slashdot. What can we do to help, short of giving in and paying these mobsters? I'll do what I can for you, but I'm not sure what to do aside from continuing to sign online petitions and send letters. I sent one to my rep in congress on this subject. Received a worthless form letter in reply that refused to take a position on either side. The punk.

    I have 1Mbps of upstream bandwidth. Maybe it's time to put my private 15GB MP3 collection up on the various P2P networks? So far, I don't let anyone but my family access it, but I'm thinking it's time to reconsider...

    I know at least some of you bastards in the industry are reading this. Get a clue: The public won't stand for this greed. Swapping music on the Internet is only going to increase because of this. You people need to change your attitude, and fast - you can't prosecute us all.

    --
    -Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
    1. Re:Civil disobedience by Bobzibub · · Score: 4, Interesting

      hmmm.. I was thinking about this...
      Suppose you set up a p2p system where each node streams 1/nth of a 'channel' or 'station'. n could be about 16 (16 'subchannels') which would bring down the load on each peer to 128/16 kbps, well within the means of every cable modem.

      Peers could be easily written in Java and spend their time discovering other peers. Your XMMS/winamp/whatever client connects to your local java client which requests and assembles n 'subchannels' into a stream. Peers do not reveal *their* sources, only other peers. That way, the true source is obscured, but more importantly, more nodes are brought in.

      Broadcasters stream to many nodes with a special arrangement/agreement. (push) Everything else is pull.

      Your java client requests a channel/subchannel from some known server or requests a node where to get a channel/subchannel . They stream to you.

      The underlying protocol would be based upon sending files, not a true music stream. These could be caputured by the local client if wanted. Information could describe overlap of two music files, messages, artist info, etc.

      1) low bandwidth for nodes ==> many nodes.
      2) dynamic hierarchy. Loose a node and the system will be able to adapt.
      3) difficult to find the true source.
      4) access to the files streamed.
      5) Of course it would stream Ogg! ; )

      What do you think?

      Cheers,
      -b

    2. Re:Civil disobedience by WEFUNK · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's time for civil disobedience.

      It's time for someone to setup a streaming radio app that works similar to P2P. Something that can't be shut down.


      Not just another P2P app, but let's start seeing more P2P devices and infrastructure as well, like wireless multi-hop networks. That way even the physical network will be tough to regulate or shut down.

      It might only work for densely populated local areas at first, but if you can get around the security issues this is the logical next step in the evolution of the internet.

      The technology and the demand for streaming content is out there, if the RIAA and MPAA etc. kept shooting themselves in the foot, inventors and consumers will find another way to get what they want.

      --
      My next sig will be ready soon, but friends can beat the rush!
    3. Re:Civil disobedience by startled · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, it's time to stop listening to corporate music.

      Civil disobedience? I'm supposed to think it's worth risking prison so I can listen to major label music?

      Maybe some of you are out in the middle of nowhere, but here near San Francisco I can find all sorts of shows, unsigned artists selling their CDs for what it cost to make them, and DJs spinning tunes off indie labels that would be thrilled to have people stream their stuff over the net.

      I've stopped buying CDs from any RIAA member; hell, I basically don't buy CDs. On the one hand you clamor against the RIAA, but on the other hand you can't wean yourself from their product? Why are you encouraging artists to limit access to their work by signing with these people?

      Civil disobedience? Hmm, rather than go to jail, how about I listen to Free Music. Check out somesongs.com and songfight.com for starters.

  8. the only options by GoatPigSheep · · Score: 5, Informative

    1. stop playing riaa music. This will help independant artists (such as myself) alot, but will cause people to not hear the music they want to hear at first.

    2. Don't host in the US, use overseas servers. The riaa will probably try and make their laws apply to other contries (stupid), but I doubt it will work on all countries.

    --
    GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
  9. Note this is only a maximum rate by HiKarma · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It's important to note that these rates are the maximum a station would have to pay, which is why the RIAA thinks they are too low. After all, if you had a song, would you think $.0002 was sufficient payment for somebody to hear it?

    But all players are free to negotiate any other terms, including lower terms, and including free for bands that want to get more play for their music and don't want the revenue.

    This is a maximum because if they ask for more than the .07 or .02 cents, an internet radio station can just invoke the compulsory license and pay that lower amount.

    Think this through again. The norm for copyright law is you can't perform somebody else's copyrighted work without permission. This ruling (common in the music industry but not elsewhere) says that you don't have to ask permission, you can just pay this fixed fee. If you go get permission you can arrange any fee both parties want. This ruling came down because people could not agree on fees.

    In the end, this might mean that independent labels, which can now band together and declare lower fees for their music, dominate the airplay on internet radio stations. They might even declare free airplay for their stuff. This could mean independent labels begin to dominate the big labels on the internet.

    Already projects like the Creative Commons are defining ways for works that want to allow free play to encode it right in the file.

    Frankly, I don't think the government should be setting the price of music at all, however.

  10. Re:What's with the complaints? by grytpype · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In addition to the other good followups that have been posted, another difference between broadcast and Internet radio is that an Internet station cannot possibly serve as many listeners as a broadcast station.

    The more listeners the Internet station has, the greater its bandwidth costs -- whereas with a broadcast station, more listeners in the broadcast area do not mean higher costs. That means advertisers would be willing to buy advertising on broadcast radio, giving them an income stream that Internet radio will never have, and that can be used to pay royalties.

    I do think it's absurd that a 500-listener Internet station has to pay the same per-song royalty as a broadcast station that could cover an area with millions of potential listeners.

    This is just another example of the media Goliaths destroying everything they don't already control.

    --

    - Have a picture

  11. CNN calls it a "victory" by ryants · · Score: 4, Informative
    Over at CNN the headline is:
    Netcasters win ruling
    U.S. rules songs delivered online will be charged royalty fees at half that originally proposed.
    Here's the link.

    Some victory... instead of cutting off both arms, you get to keep one. :(

    --

    Ryan T. Sammartino
    "Ancora imparo"

  12. The RIAA's Response? Feed us more!! by EchoMirage · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Even more disgusting, but certainly not suprising, is the RIAA's response to the announcement, saying, "[the rate] simply does not reflect the fair market value of the music as promised by the law."

    Who's up for burning RIAA at the stake?

  13. RIAA acting the same as always... by allism · · Score: 4, Insightful

    from the copyright.gov article: However, the Librarian concluded that the CARP misinterpreted some aspects of the RIAA/Yahoo! agreement. One of the most significant errors by the CARP was its conclusion that the parties must have agreed that radio retransmissions have a tremendous positive promotional impact on sales of phonorecords - an impact that it did not find Internet-only transmissions have - and that this promotional impact explained the decision of RIAA and Yahoo! to set a higher rate for Internet-only transmissions. In fact, both the broadcasters (who benefitted from the CARP's conclusion regarding promotional value) and RIAA agree that there was no evidence in the record to support the conclusion that RIAA and Yahoo! considered and made adjustments for promotional value for radio retransmissions. The Librarian agreed with the Register of Copyrights that the CARP's conclusion about promotional value was arbitrary and was not supported by the evidence in the record, which provided no basis for concluding that radio retransmissions provide a promotional value that Internet-only transmissions do not provide.

    RIAA is once again ignoring the fact that Internet radio transmissions provide MORE benefit to them by being able to reach MORE people at a lower cost. I've bought music from only hearing a single on a spinner.com broadcast--I'm a heck of a lot more likely to buy a CD if I can see who is playing than if I have to guess at who it might be.

    Now that I've vented, can someone please explain to me how retroactive unspecified charges can be applied? If the IRS were to say, "We're going to tax you next year, but we're not going to decide how much those taxes are going to be for a couple of years and then you'll have to pony up the dough," I would think someone would take them to court and manage to get the charges wiped. Can someone with some real background in this explain this to me? Also, what am I missing with the label "Non-Commercial Broadcaster"? Does this mean that if you weren't making ANY money off of your broadcasts, you have to pay a lower rate? (Not that having to pay despite making no money doesn't suck...)

    And why the heck was Yahoo selected to negotiate on this? Sure they've got a broadcast service, but they have money to blow, unlike Joe Schmo broadcasting out of their basement...

  14. So lets get some live internet music... by dbc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously. I've had a lifetime of listening to recordings, and get far too little live music in my life -- and I seek it out and go. This ruling applies to recordings. But... imagine what a grand thing it would be to have an internet feed from a jam studio where musicians came to make *live* music, not Muzak. Where musicians came to make the music live and breath, to make mistakes, to laugh, to improvise meandering, soaring solos -- to share the joy that is true, live music. Why can't we have this? Recordings are so sterile, so frozen in stone. So the same-every-time. Let's have some real music.

  15. Re:What about non-RIAA music? by Sloppy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It doesn't really have anything to do with the RIAA directly. These are compulsory license terms and fees. What that means, is that these are figures that broadcasters get to forcefully impose upon copyright holders, and there is nothing the copyright holder can do about it. If he wants more money, or he doesn't want you to broadcast his music at all, you can tell him "tough shit" and do it anyway (legally), as long as you follow these rules.

    Effectively, all that means is that it sets the upper bound.

    Where RIAA comes in, is that they are big business and won't negotiate with you "little people", so these rates and terms aren't just the upper bound, but they're the lower bound also. This is the only offer on the table when you are broadcasting their stuff.

    For non-RIAA music, such as that garage band that played at the bar last weekend and then had a few beers with you, they are probably very happy to negotiate with you and offer you other terms. So instead of you paying these rates, you'll be able to work out something better. Maybe they'll even let you play their stuff free, because they want people to hear it.

    IMHO, it's pretty fair. The ball is in the musicians' court now. They need to either commit to working for the corporations (who can push them pretty hard and effectively when they want to (e.g. you have probably heard the name "Britney Spears")), or work for themselves (and offer pleasant terms to underground supporters who will push thme in a different way). Choose wisely, dudes.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  16. What will happen... by forii · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This ruling does not mean the death of Internet radio, but rather the death of Internet radio in the United States. This is an important difference, as I predict that the big US radio sites will either move out of the US, or be replaced by new sites that exist outside of the United States.

    Here is what will happen:

    Internet Radio continues to grow/develop, outside of the United States.

    The number of US-based listeners continues to grow.

    Non-US based Internet Radio stations begin to generate revenue.

    US-based groups and industries begin to realize that they are missing out on a large stream of revenue/listerners, and begin to look for changes.

    Sometime in the (near) future, new laws are passed that open up the United States market for Internet Radio.

    So while I'm disgusted by the Copyright Office's decision, I have to say that I'm cautiously optimistic. Optimistic that sometime in the future people will realize what a big mistake this was.

  17. An internet broadcaster's opinion by detroitindustrial · · Score: 5, Informative

    I run Detroit Industrial Underground. My station has a 20 simultaneous listener capacity, and I've been broacasting for 3.5 years. To give you an idea of the small scale of most internet broacasts, DIU is currently ranked 222 out of around 2800 stations on the Shoutcast directory for total time spend listening (TTSL).

    Some thoughts, based on what I've read here:

    Terrestrial radio stations with webcasts are as unhappy with these rates as internet broadcasters are, and they'll be lobbying against this as well.

    Some people have said that these rates won't apply to stations which only play non-RIAA material. While common sense would suggest that, it has not been proven yet, and common sense doesn't seem to apply to anything involving the RIAA and U.S. Congress.

    Ephemeral recordings are "temporary" recordings made solely for broadcast purposes. In the case of internet radio, they're referring to MP3s. In practice, its an excuse to add another 8.8% fee on top of the per listener per song $0.0007.

    Moving outside the U.S. won't save internet radio. U.S. based Broadcasters can be tracked through ISP's and billing relationships with hosting companies. Also, other countries have licensing bodies which are just as rapacious as the RIAA. In Canada, SOCAN is pushing Tariff 22, which imposes a $0.25 per unique listener per month fee. This adds up to more than the RIAA + BMI/ASCAP/SESAC fees, and forces listener tracking/subscriptions for auditing purposes. See the Stop Tariff 22 website for the details.

    The battle isn't lost yet. On the Shoutcast list, we're working on our response to this. In the meantine, check out Save Internet Radio and the Radio and Internet Newsletter. Finally, write your reps in Congress, and include your snail mail addresss so they know you're a constituent.