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Dutch Judge Cracks Down on Hyperlinks
The webzine Radikal (mirrored in Holland, because it has been banned in Germany) published several articles on disabling railroad trains (in the context of preventing shipments of nuclear materials); the German national railroad discovered it, and the fun has been going on ever since. Rejo Zenger writes "Today a dutch judge ordered Indymedia NL on the request of the Deutsche Bahn to remove some links from a page on their website. These links were pointing to the mirrors of Radikal sites. A few of these sites were containing two articles that have been forbidden in court before. The links were indirect links (surface links) instead of direct ones to the articles (deeplinks). So, none of the links was pointing to the offending articles directly! The judge "orders Indymedia immediately after receiving this sentence to remove and to keep removed the hyperlinks, which are placed on (a) website(s) under the control of Indymedia, if those hyperlinks lead directly or indirectly to the Radikal articles [...]". This is BAD. As almost all links indirectly point to the Radikal articles we can abolish the web now. The announcement, Dutch with English to follow shortly. The decision of the judge (dutch only)." Indymedia's press release (English) covers it pretty well. Update: 06/21 19:54 GMT by M : My summary in the first sentence has been corrected.
A few points.
1) The linked to articals where about derailing Nuclea Waste Trains, not passenger trains
2) Would you rather have ppl discusing how to do this with out killing any one, or just let the carnage begin
3) The links where to the main page of the site, not the artical. So this now means that in the Netherlands you can not link to anywhere that may link to these articals. I hope Google.nl is watching
Wouldn't it be nice if schools got all the money they wanted and the army had to hold jumble sales for guns
Why not just remove the link, but post the URL in its place? It is not a hyperlink and it is up to the user to copy and paste it into the address bar of their browser.
...otherwise it's trivial to circumvent the prohibition on direct links only.
For instance, suppose linking directly to document A is banned. Then the hosting site could simply create a page with a "wink wink" link to document A, and the site against which the injunction is placed could link the the page with the "wink wink" link, with identical intent as with a direct link.
In other words, it's perfectly reasonable for a ban to also include indirect links OF WHATEVER LENGTH (arbitrary numbers of pages of "Are you sure? Are you really sure? etc") so long as intent is clear (e.g. putting up silly links to Disney on each of the "are you sure" pages should not absolve them). One can even make a case for neglect if the linker should have known better according to a reasonable-person standard.
Of course, even if the ruling notes this justification -- I don't read Dutch, and I'm leery of trusting a web translator on legalese -- Indymedia isn't exactly an independent with regards to their own case, and probably wouldn't mention this.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
Underneath all of this is a silly premise. Does anyone need instructions to figure out how to derail a train? Let's see, it runs on two rails which are attached to ties in a certain way. So you either move a rail, or undermine the roadbed, or foobar a track junction or switch, or put something on top of a rail that's big and strong enough to send the wheels off. If the German government is counting on keeping trains secure by not having instructions up on the Net, they must estimate that the people who'd derail them are unusually stupid - and yet they expect they'll know how to read?? Reminds me of an article in yesterday's NY Times about how the Germans are following around a guy they know financed Mohammed Atta, but won't arrest him because they have such a respect for individual rights there. Maybe Germans really are stupid enough to need a manual to figure out how to derail a train?? If you live in Germany, feel very secure.
___
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Of course, there's a lot of people who claim that information like this should not be released because of the damage it can cause. Yes, I agree. The people erleasing the information should have better judgement; BUT the people should not be arrested either.
Let me explain:
There's also a lot of people who claim guns should be illegal; I beg to differ (and this is an easier analogy).
Criminals will get guns regardless of whether they're legal or not. Most criminals don't even get guns legitimately; they're usually stolen from gun shops, other people, or bought from gun shows, where they don't have to follow the 7-day laws. Either way, they're acquired through the black market. Criminals (or at least intelligent criminals) don't just go out and buy assault rifles, because they know they can be traced.
If guns were criminalized, all it'll do is prevent legitimate owners from purchasing them for self defense. Now our problem is the personality of this country (the states) where crime runs rampant, the punishment doesn't make sense (I'd get more time for trafficking weed than killing someone), so people don't really have a reason to act responsibly.
In effect, if someone really wants to derail a train, they -will- find out; however, people who know should show enough responsibility to not tell everybody, as it can easily become some twisted game for a bunch of teenagers. As they've obviously shown, they don't have that responsibility, and of course, the government wants to punish them.
What it comes down to is we need to reevaluate our moral responsibilites, and keep the government out of it...
I dunno, I think I'm just rambling now, but it sense (to me) at one point....
What they do with this new skill is entirely their own business, unless you've encouraged them to do that specific linking activity.
As for taking responsability, it seems to me that it's more important to imbue children with a sense of their basic rights, including freedom of expression, than to mindlessly kowtow to stupid, and ultimately unenforceable, laws.
Remember - 85% of people will obey a morally just law without any coercion. But most people won't obey stupid, or contradictory, laws. The ban against linking is stupid, unenforceable, and ill-formed. It is a direct infringement of freedom of expression, constitutionally guaranteed in both the US and Canada. Maybe Europe should get with the program.
On a side note - I taught some friends how to take down a server in less than 5 minutes - but I also impressed upon them the importance of NOT doing this. The ability to do this is like a nuclear weapon - having it doesn't mean you have to use it. Why did I do this? They didn't believe they had to be so security-conscious, and were too sloppy. Now they know better, and are more likely to secure their sites.
Thats the problem. The inevitable compromise. A compromise about an issue that should never been an issue.
Granted the subject matter involved is spooky, and I really dont want anyone monkeying with any train with a nuclear payload, but still.
We're back to ANOTHER linking issue! WTF? Did the New York Times ever go down for doing the same exact thing as 2600?
The principle issue at hand is the general ignorance (about the net and how it works) of those who create, enforce, and rule on the laws.
There are a great number of people with a decent level of understanding about the internet, and sufficient common sense to know what just is a Very Bad Idea(TM). But basically none of them are in lawmaking bodies around the world. They aren't greatly organized, they don't have a powerful lobby, they don't pack the monsterous cash warchests that the corps have. So what happens?
You get:
1)Trigger situation - someone does something somewhere related to computers or the net that some other body disapproves of, legal or otherwise.
2)Very Bad Law - disapproving body (often big corp) goes after (paid for or otherwise) new law that is so over the top that it looks completely loony to anyone who understands the technologies involved.
3)Uproar - you and I and everyone else wets themself laughing then realizes that there could be very bad consequences.
4)Sacrifical Lamb - some poor bastard (usually the poor soul from item 1) is hung out to dry while courts and lawmakers argue point they likely don't understand, insert paid experts from all sides. And lawyers, lots of lawyers.
5)Bad Law - eventually everything settles down and Very Bad Law goes away, but Bad Law is put in its place. Compromise isn't always a good thing.
Most Bad Laws regarding technology that we have now are actually the sons of Very Bad Laws.
notice how Slashdot didn't link to this Zine, either.
(Let alone deep linkin)
- undoware.ca
This is mostly a repost of a comment I posted on the Indymedia NL website, but here it is for the slashdotters...
A comment on the Indymedia NL webstite state that:
This ruling [will] have severe consequences for every person or organisation that has placed links on the Internet.
Definately, It does. Now, I wonder shouldnt Indymedia NL, or other vigilantes (wink), now take this to the very people involved? Namely Deutsche Bahn and any Websites that may exist for the Nertherlands legal system. Perhaps it can be discovered that they too, have indirect links to the banned materials? This may take some searching, and if I knew some German, I would do this myself. Of course, if anything was found as such Indymedial NL should be made aware.
So perhaps, if the very legal system or even the plantiffs can be found to be guilty of the same action Indymedia NL has been penalized for, perhaps the ruling can be showed for what it is. Inane.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. -- Walt Whitman
Most railroad tracks have a very low voltage current running through them so if a track breaks, they can tell there is a problem before a train crashes. All you have to do is get a few feet (maybe 6 or 7) of some pretty thick metal wire, solder/attach both ends to the track as far apart as the wire will reach. Get a big sledge hammer and knock the track apart. The wire will carry the voltage accross the break in the track so the train company won't think anything is wrong.
As far as I recall, nothing has been done to stifle Ashcroft's right to speak freely. On the other hand, his words have been used against him by others exercising their rights to free speech, and rightfully so. He's an ardent "South sympathizer" regarding the civil war, because he's such a big fan of states' rights. Yet he has consistently stood against states' rights whenever he disagrees with the decisions the states make. Case in point; the Oregon assisted suicide measures, and medical marijuana in California. He's gone as far as to support efforts on the part of Bob Barr to invoke the "Supremacy Clause" of the constitution, over-ruling all states' rights (on matters he disagrees with, of course). He has subverted free speech by completely over-riding efforts on the part of Washington D.C. citizens to put forth medical marijuana initiatives on the ballot. In short, he's the worst kind of hypocrite, in the worst position to abuse his power by way of his utter disregard for the will of the people.
He's completely opposed to all legalization, even more medical purposes, yet blindly supports the tobacco industry. In short, he's a hypocrite who supports states' rights when it comes to the "right" to subjugate an entire class of people, but not when it comes to the decision to allow people to smoke the most effective anti-nausea, anti-wasting medicine known to man. I don't think the ACLU has done anything to stifle his right to make a complete buffoon of himself.