Ransom Love to Focus on UnitedLinux

morhoj writes "Looks like Ransom Love, who recently was host to a /. interview, has been replaced as CEO of Caldera and is now exclusively leading the UnitedLinux initiative. Some other stock buybacks and board swaps also happened at Caldera. Can't say that I'm all too pleased by this, I for one didn't like some of his answers in the interview, specifically that fees would be required to become "UnitedLinux" certified. That should really help wider Linux adoption."

Comments

C: A Dead Language?

[egg troll]

Gentlemen, the time has come for a serious discussion on whether or not to continue using C for serious programming projects. As I will explain, I feel that C needs to be retired, much the same way that Fortran, Cobol and Perl have been. Furthermore, allow me to be so bold as to suggest a superior replacement to this outdated language.

To give you a little background on this subject, I was recently asked to develop a client/server project on a Unix platform for a Fortune 500 company. While I've never coded in C before I have coded in VB for fifteen years, and in Java for over ten, I was stunned to see how poorly C fared compared to these two, more low-level languages.

C's biggest difficulty, as we all know, is the fact that it is by far one of the slowest languages in existance, especially when compared to more modern languages such as Java and C#. Although the reasons for this are varied, the main reasons seems to be the way C requires a programmer to laboriously work with chunks of memory.

Requiring a programmer to manipulate blocks of memory is a tedious way to program. This was satisfactory back in the early days of coding, but then again, so were punchcards. By using what are called "pointers" a C programmer is basically requiring the computer to do three sets of work rather than one. The first time requires the computer to duplicate whatever is stored in the memory space "pointed to" by the pointer. The second time requires it to perform the needed operation on this space. Finally the computer must delete the duplicate set and set the values of the original accordingly.

Clearly this is a horrendous use of resources and the chief reason why C is so slow. When one looks at a more modern (and a more serious) programming language like Java, C# or - even better - Visual Basic that lacks such archaic coding styles, one will also note a serious speed increase over C.

So what does this mean for the programming community? I think clearly that C needs to be abandonded. There are two candidates that would be a suitable replacement for it. Those are Java and Visual Basic.

Having programmed in both for many years, I believe that VB has the edge. Not only is it slightly faster than Java its also much easier to code in. I found C to be confusing, frightening and intimidating with its non-GUI-based coding style. Furthermore, I like to see the source code of the projects I work with. Java's source seems to be under the monopolistic thumb of Sun much the way that GCC is obscured from us by the marketing people at the FSF. Microsoft's "shared source" under which Visual Basic is released definately seems to be the most fair and reasonable of all the licenses in existance, with none of the harsh restrictions of the BSD license. It also lacks the GPLs requirement that anything coded with its tools becomes property of the FSF.

I hope to see a switch to VB very soon. I've already spoken with various luminaries in the *nix coding world and most are eager to begin to transition. Having just gotten off the phone with Mr. Alan Cox, I can say that he is quite thrilled with the speed increases that will occur when the Linux kernel is completely rewritten in Visual Basic. Richard Stallman plans to support this, and hopes that the great Swede himself, Linux Torvaldis, won't object to renaming Linux to VB/Linux. Although not a C coder himself, I'm told that Slashdot's very own Admiral Taco will support this on his web site. Finally, Dennis Ritchie is excited about the switch!

Thank you for your time. Happy coding.

Egg Troll

Re:C: A Dead Language?

[Genghis Troll]

You have raised some important issues, here, and I applaud you for having the courage to do so, as well for making the fr1st ps0t to this fine article. I feel compelled to advise that you desist from further intercourse with the likes of Cox, Stallman, and Torvaldis, however, lest it lead to forcible intercourse of the type they are known to favor. When they stop ranting about "free warez for everybody" long enough to listen to someone from the "outside" it is generally only because because they have caught the scent of an unviolated anus.

Re:C: A Dead Language?

[Anonymous Coward]

"And as you can see," Natalie Portman continued, pointing at the
large projector screen with a laser pointer. "No one who is famous in
the public eye goes untouched on this website. From actresses to
singers to athletes to royalty, it seems that if there is an
attractive woman on the planet who is famous, this site - Celebrity
Sex Stories Archive - has at least one story on her,"

Natalie paused for a moment, shifting back to her notes.

"As an actress in Hollywood, I find this sort of thing very
disturbing indeed. With over two dozen stories written about my screen
name and persona alone, including some of the most vile and despicable
things imaginable that could be done to a person sexually or
otherwise, written at various stages of my life. This site and others
like it are a danger for women everywhere, for they foster the idea
that not only is rape and forced intercourse acceptable in our
society, but that even one night stands and casual, unprotected sex is
also the norm," she said, continuing.

"From a psychological standpoint, it's clear that the writers of
these stories are often lonely men, more than likely in their early
20s or mid 30s, who are most likely seeking female companionship and,
unable to get it or find much of it in the real world, are forced to
extol upon the Hollywood system of beauty and perfection further by
writing perfect, willing sex partners who just so happen to be famous.
The result is a collection of close to 2,000 stories, whose main
purpose is to sexually excite the reader and others who feel the same
way. Summed up, there are a lot of isolated men who get off on this
stuff," she said, eliciting some laughter from the audience.

I sat back in my chair and yawned as Natalie continued. I tuned her
out somewhat, glancing around at the people filling most of the seats
in this small auditorium. They were fellow students, professors and
what appeared to be even a few desperate "Star Wars" fans, all
listening pretty raptly to what the young Ms. Portman was saying. I
had come to hear her speech, a delivery of her thesis paper for her
degree in psychology here at Harvard, entitled "Celebrity and the
sexual mind: The new mediums, dangers and glorifications". However, as
her speech went on, I started to lose interest until something she
said perked my ears up.

"Attempts to contact the site maintainer, a person with the ambiguous
name and indefinable name of Carnage Jackson, were not returned,
leading this researcher to conclude that many of these people, these
authors, are ashamed to show themselves in public or be confronted
with their own sexual fantasies, for fear of public exposure," Natalie
said.

This made me a little angry, but I subdued myself and listened as she
closed her speech, hoping that at the end I could get a moment to talk
to her. She was quite wrong about a lot of the things she said, and I
would hopefully get a chance to correct her on the error of her ways.

"In conclusion, the melding of the Internet with the iconic,
picturesque culture of Hollywood has created sites like this Archive,
where sexual fantasies about women of all creeds are exploited and
glorified for anyone to receive access to. The future is uncertain in
this field, given that such speech IS legally protected by the Supreme
Court, but more research may be warranted to try and predict through
algorithms and patterns what the next logical step is. Thank you for
your time, I will present the remainder of the paper tomorrow
afternoon for those who wish to attend" Natalie said, taking a slight
bow.

The crowd applauded in their seats as Natalie smiled at them while
gathering up her notes, a few "Star Wars" fans, decked out in too
small t-shirts and matted hair, jumped to their own feet to give her a
standing ovation. The crowd began to disperse as I waited in my seat,
watching them go. The geeks rushed to the stage to shake Natalie's
hand and talk to her. She seemed poised and collected, smiling and
laughing a little bit and even taking a picture with two of them,
something that seemed radically out of place in an environment such as
this.

The "Star Wars" fans finally began to leave after a few minutes and
that's when I stood up, casually strolling past them towards the
stage, where Natalie was unhooking her laptop computer and putting
some note cards into a satchel.

"That was an excellent speech Ms. Portman," I said to her quietly,
leaning against one of the auditorium seats.

"Thank you," she said, not looking up.

I hesitated for a moment. "You were a little incorrect on some
aspects of it though, I am afraid to tell you," I said.

"Oh really? What do you mean? Have you worked on this topic before?"
she said, still not looking up.

"Well, you could say that I suppose. Let's just say I'm a bit of an
expert when it comes to stories about celebrities having sex," I said
to her.

Natalie finally looked up, her brown hair falling away from her ear.
She was dressed in a casual but formal sort of way, wearing a knee
length khaki skirt and an expensive looking silk blouse. If it wasn't
for her youthful appearance, she could have easily passed as a
business woman.

"Hi, Carnage Jackson. Nice to finally meet you Ms. Portman," I said,
extending my hand. Natalie froze in shock for a moment, staring at me
wide eyed, her hands seemingly stuck over her briefcase. I watched as
she sized me up.

I wasn't really a big guy, and not really even that threatening
looking. I weigh about 170 and am around 5'10 - big enough to keep
away trouble but not large enough to probably defend myself from it. I
was wearing just a pair of slacks and a button up shirt, figuring when
I showed up that this was a more dressy sort of thing than my usual
shorts and t-shirts.

Natalie blinked at me and finally extended her own hand slowly. I
shook it softly, not wanting to scare her away by squeezing too tight
or too long. Natalie removed her hand and stood back up, still amazed
to be looking at me.

"Why didn't you answer my emails to you? You didn't have to show up
here in person," Natalie said. I watched as her eyes darted around the
room, looking for a way out or for extra people if she thought I was
too much of a threat or something. I followed her eyes and saw a group
of students standing by the exit, talking. Otherwise we were alone in
the auditorium.

"I'm sorry about that, really. I haven't been able to get at a
computer for a few days and I know that the three or four messages you
probably left me are just sitting there in my inbox. I did see the
first one though, but I wrote it off as a joke. Then I checked the
Harvard website and saw that you really WERE giving a speech, so I
decided to come and see how you handled my little hobby. It was a
quick plane ride, but getting the fare on such short notice was a
pain," I said with a smile, taking a step towards her just so I didn't
have to speak in a somewhat loud voice so that she could hear me over
the air conditioners.

Natalie stepped back quickly, moving behind a table.

"Well...what did you think? You said I got some things wrong,"
Natalie said, her voice a little uneasy.

"Yes and no. It's really more semantics than anything but, if you
have sometime, I'd be more than happy to give you that interview for
your research. In a public place of course, since you obviously seem a
little unnerved by me being here," I said, still smiling. I wasn't
trying to sound over eager at all, but I could understand her
trepidation.

"Alright, I suppose that would be okay. Meet me at Angelo's, two
blocks over in about 30 minutes, ok?" Natalie said, starting again to
gather up her stuff.

"See you then," I said, turning away and walking out of the room. I
stole a glance over my shoulder and saw that Natalie was still
watching me with some hesitance. I really didn't blame her, given the
situation, but I still smiled to myself anyway.

She couldn't have picked a more crowded place to go. As I waited
outside for a table to open up, the heat of the summer sun fading in
the horizon above me, a bustle of dinner patrons coming and going into
the restaurant, I watched the cars drive by in rush hour and the
pedestrians crossing the street. Glancing at my watch, I was starting
to wonder if Natalie would show up, as our confirmed time had passed
five minutes earlier. Turning to leave, figuring I had been stood up,
I spotted Natalie hustling with a throng of people at the intersection
directly across from the restaurant. She had her laptop slung over her
shoulder and a folder beneath her arm, but it was without a doubt her.
I was amazed as I watched her walk that no one else seemed to notice
who she was. A short, brown haired girl - never mind the fact that she
was in one of the biggest film franchises of all time - blended in
with the crowd pretty well.

"Hi," she said to me, a bit out of breath. "I apologize for the
delay, one of my professors held me up as I was leaving,"

"No trouble at all. I'm afraid we will have to wait though, since the
place seems a bit crowded," I said, glancing at the door as an elderly
couple walked out.

For the first time, Natalie smiled at me. "Not necessarily. Watch
this," she said, heading towards the restaurant. I followed a step or
so behind and watched as she walked up to the greeter, saying
something to him. His face lit up and he laughed, grabbing two menus
and stepping past a waiter. Natalie looked back at me and motioned for
me to follow her.

I did, and within a moment we were seated at a table towards the side
of the restaurant, next to a row of booths were couples and families
were eating. Pulling the chair out for Natalie, the greeter's face
fell a bit as he saw me, probably figuring I was Natalie's date.
Needless to say, he didn't pull a chair out for me.

"How did you do that?" I asked, a bit amazed.

"Celebrity status. I don't like to use it if I don't have to, but
sometimes the situation warrants it. Besides, they know me here. I eat
lunch here all the time, not to mention do some studying. The crowded
environment is very soothing in a strange way when you are cramming
her finals," Natalie said, smiling again. Her beauty was far different
than I even imagined it to be: a natural grace and poise to her young
frame that I had never seen before on a person. She wore just a bit of
makeup, but she really didn't need it - her radiant face and smile
spoke for themselves.

"So," she said, setting her laptop and folder down, pulling out a
notepad from the case. "What's your name? I forgot to ask that, but
I'm sure you're parents didn't name you Carnage Jackson,"

"No, of course not. That's just a pen name, something I made up out
of the blue one day when I started writing stories," I said, stealing
a glance at a passing waiter and his nametag to tell Natalie my "real"
name. "My name is Adam. I'm sure you can understand that for privacy
sake, I can't tell you my last name,"

"Why not?" Natalie said, taking a sip of water from one of the two
glasses already prepared at the table.

"Well, as you probably know with being a celebrity and all, a last
name is key in identifying a person. And given that I don't want
people in my life outside of my little hobby knowing that I actually
do it, I just go by my pen name, always. Hope you can understand," I
said to her.

"I understand. Besides, I already list you by your pen name in my
paper anyways, I just wanted to know for our conversation. It would
sound a bit awkward if I kept referring to you as Carnage, don't you
think?" Natalie said.

"Yes, I suppose so," I replied.

"Ok, so then tell me Adam, how long have you been doing this
celebrity sex story thing? That is what you call it right?" Natalie
asked.

"About two years. I call it just celeb erotica, it makes it sound
more dignified I suppose," I said.

"Celebrity erotica then. How did you start doing it? I mean, how did
you get involved in this seemingly vast group of people," Natalie
said.

"I just started reading some of the stories one day while online, and
being an aspiring writer myself, just decided to try my hand at it.
The other writers liked what I did right off the bat, so I started to
use the stories as a way to practice for more legitimate sort of
writing," I said.

Natalie was scribbling all this down on her notepad, taking notes and
underlining or circling certain things.

"Ok. Now, you probably already know this already, but to a layman
person out there in the world, a lot of this 'celeb erotica' is quite
pornographic and even offensive. Doesn't that bother you, being
associated with that sort of thing?" she said.

"Not really. I mean, everyone is turned on by something different in
the world, as I'm sure you know. I just think it's a fun thing to do,
something to occupy yourself with. I don't like and can barely stomach
a lot of the stuff on the site, CSSA, but to each his own I suppose.
And I'm not really worried about what other people think. Half the
people you know probably have some sort of kinky sexual fantasy, they
just don't act on it. That's why I think CSSA is a good site, because
it puts people's fantasies into words, and gives them a place to
express those fantasies. I've never heard of anyone actually acting on
them, and I hope that day never comes. I would feel horrible," I said
to her, sipping some water.

"Now, I read some of your stories," Natalie said, looking over her
notepad. "Some of the ones about me, some of them about other
celebrities. I wouldn't have even come to this interview with you if I
didn't think you were harmless, but as a seemingly competent, albeit a
bit obsessed with myself and a few other celebrities, you seem to have
a good deal of respect for the women you write about. You don't put
them in dangerous or violent situations, just regularly vanilla sexual
activities," Natalie said. "Would you say that's a fair assessment?"

"Yes, most definitely. Don't get me wrong, I don't like to pass
judgment on what people read or like, but to me the socially
unacceptable morays of rape and torture are a big turn off. I can't
get over the idea that they are just wrong on a higher level and
degrading to the people involved. And for me, that kills any arousal
that might come about," I said. "By the way, what did you think?"

"Think about what?" Natalie said, looking up.

"The stories about you. The ones I wrote," I said with a smile.

Natalie blushed. "Well, they certainly were descriptive. I read all
the ones about me, just out of a sort of morbid curiosity. Some of
them made my stomach churn, but yours seemed to be alright. You at
least didn't just turn me into a sex object, which I appreciate. But
they just aren't my thing," Natalie said softly.

"You mean you don't have sexual fantasies? I smell a hypocrite across
the table from me, if that's the case," I said in a joking manner.

Natalie blushed deeper now, her raised cheekbones turning a bright
red. She leaned forward across the table. "I do, but not like that I
suppose," she said.

"Not like what?" I asked.

"Not like the way you're stories portray me. I'm more old fashioned,
wanting to know the person and all before I even will consider
sleeping with them. I've only had sex a few times and I'm still a bit
new at it, but all the stories on that CSSA site just portray me as a
wanton sex maniac. It's just not who I am," Natalie said.

"That's understandable. But would you ever even consider acting on
your fantasies? Or, for that matter, even telling another person what
they were?" I said.

"I could, but I mean, sexual fantasies are a very private thing,
something you only reveal to one or two people in your whole life.
It's just not an acceptable thing to talk about," Natalie said.

"I disagree. I think that by coming to terms with them, you could
understand yourself better. It's worked for me and at least a few
other people I know. Not to mention past girlfriends of mine, which by
the way, you were wrong about in stating that all erotica authors are
dateless wonders. Many write with their partner there by them, and
then use what they write as their own form of stimulation," I said.

"I'll make note of that. Anyways, this interview isn't about me, it's
about you. I have a few more questions, will you answer them?" Natalie
asked, setting her pen down.

"Fire away," I said with a smile.

Natalie proceeded to ask me various questions about my personal life,
my love life, etc, all of which I answered cordially and without
hesitation. As our meal arrived (Natalie eating a salad, naturally)
and we each had a glass of wine, things became more relaxed between
us. Natalie still wasn't totally trusting of me, but at least she
seemed to be able to not jump in fear if I made a sudden move across
the table or anything.

The interview wound down and we finished our dinner, walking out of
the restaurant. The air was hot from the sunny summer day just a few
hours passed as we stood there watching the cars go by and the city
blink and twinkle around us.

"Well, thank you for the interview. I'm sure it will help me out with
my research a lot," Natalie said, shaking my hand in a polite,
Hollywood way.

"You're more than welcome. But you aren't REALLY going home right now
are you? I mean, the night is young, you are young! You can't just
call it quits at," I said, glancing at my watch "8:30! Aren't you
supposed to be out partying somewhere? I mean, after all you DID just
turn 21,"

"I know, but I really should go home and prepare this new information
for the speech tomorrow," Natalie said. I could tell she was wavering
a little bit in her decision, so I jumped on it.

"At least come have a cup of coffee with me. Public place again, of
course, but I can at least buy you a cup for putting up with a
'pathetic loser' like me all night," I said, smiling broadly.

Natalie sighed. "Alright, I guess that would be ok. Should we walk or
do you want to take a cab?"

"Walking is fine, if that's okay with you," I replied.

"I guess it would be okay. I think my freaked-out level towards you
has gone down a few notches," Natalie said.

We began to walk down a main road, the name of which escapes me since
I am not familiar with Boston, but there were plenty of people out. We
came upon a Starbucks but noticed that it was closed already and thus
continued on. As the blocks progressed, I decided to probe Natalie
further on her interest in the site.

"Of the stories about you on CSSA, which ones did you like the best?
I mean, which ones would be something you would actually consider
doing at some point in your life?" I said, hoping the question wasn't
too off-putting for her.

Natalie didn't answer for a moment as we passed another block, but
after some thought she finally responded.

"The rape and mind control stuff is just too sick or weird for me, so
that's out. Ditto for the animal sex. So I guess that just leaves the
lesbian, orgy style and regular consensual stuff. Consensual would be
too risky in this day and age, as that just goes against what I would
do as a person. I like myself too much to just sleep with some random
stranger. And orgies fall under that category too I
supposed...anything where you are treated as a sex object is something
that doesn't appeal to me at all," Natalie said.

"That just leaves lesbian stories, of which there are quite a few," I
replied as we walked.

"Yeah. I guess...I mean, I've kissed other girls on a dare or at a
party or something, but never really sexual. And they say that lesbian
sex is the safest kind of sex because there isn't any physical
penetration next to toys so...yes, I suppose the lesbian stuff,"
Natalie said. I was amazed at how much she had opened up on the topic,
considering her previous statements earlier in the evening. Then again
though, this was all talk.

"I think that you're right, that would be a good choice for you.
Having written stories about you and followed your career, I could
most certainly see you in at least a casual lesbian fling. It's fairly
safe, like you said, and it's not as if you really ARE a lesbian, at
least to the best of my knowledge," I said.

Natalie laughed. "No, I'm not. I like men just fine, thank you,"

"Then in that case I'll keep that in mind next time I write a story
about you. If that wouldn't freak you out too much I mean," I said.
"After all, you're in college...everyone experiments at one time or
another in college, right?"

Laughing again, Natalie nodded her head. "If you did keep writing
about me, I still wouldn't like it but there's not much I can do. This
is America, you have the right to write whatever you want. Besides,
not like anyone would really believe that I gave you my 'permission'
anyway," she said.

I laughed and we continued walking. The part of town we were in was a
little bit lower class now - not exactly the ghetto, but a far cry
from the neatly cleaned streets up by her school. Natalie pointed at a
coffee shop up on our right, with an OPEN sign and started walking
that way. I followed behind her and we entered it, my nose overwhelmed
with the sweet fragrance of coffee beans and boiling tea. Neither one
of us said anything as we ordered individually, taking a seat by a big
plate glass window near the front of the store. It was mostly empty, a
few straggling tourists and college kids coming and going for a late
night espresso but for the most part we had the place to ourselves.

We talked a bit then, about Natalie's plans after college and about
my own stagnant writing career that couldn't seem to lift itself out
of the world of celebrity erotica. Glancing out the window, I couldn't
help but notice the sudden influx of women walking by the store. They
were dressed provocatively in clubbing clothes and dolled up hair and
makeup and seemed to be walking in groups, chattering on cell phones
and giggling with one another. There was something a bit different
about all of them though, I couldn't put my finger on it.

Natalie finished her cup of coffee and stood to leave.

"I really need to head back now. But this has been fun Adam, I think
that my perspective has changed a bit from what it was when I first
found CSSA," Natalie said. I stood up to walk her out, stepping back
into the warm summer air as we stepped around a foursome of women
passing by us.

"Hmm, I wonder what they are up to," Natalie asked quietly to herself
as we started to walk away.

"I saw a bunch of girls, I mean women, walking around the corner
while we were sitting there, are there any clubs near here?" I asked,
watching the four girls as they rounded a corner a few yards down.

"None that I know of, but let's just see where they are going. Then I
really need to go home," Natalie said, her own curiosity getting the
best of her. We turned around and followed the women, far enough away
so it didn't seem like we were stalking them or anything. As we
rounded the corner, I was temporarily blinded by a set of red neon
lights flashing about eye level in front of me.

There was a swarm of women standing in the street in a neat line,
chatting and smoking with one another, waiting to get into the club.
Natalie and I walked into the street to glance at the sign, which was
now quite obviously a club of some sort.

"FEMME FATALE" the sign read, it's letters in a curved, seductive
style as it blinked it's neon harshness onto the awaiting guests
below, bathing them in the sharp red light of it's buzzing glow.

"I'll be damned, it IS a club," Natalie said. Some of the girls
closest to us gave us a once over, shooting me a dirty look. However,
I noticed that their eyes lingered longer on Natalie, and that's when
it all clicked.

"It's a lesbian club. That's probably why you have never heard of
it," I said to Natalie.

Natalie looked a little taken aback. "You're right. I can't believe I
didn't pick up on that right away. Next to you, I don't see a single
man on this whole block. Even the bouncer is a woman," Natalie said.

She was right. It was hard to miss the door woman, her large and
bulky frame and buzz haircut giving her the appearance of a big man,
had her breasts not been a dead give away. She was busy checking a
guest list and pulling back a velvet rope to allow a few girls at a
time entrance in, while others pleaded and begged with her to be
allowed inside.

We stood there watching the whole thing for a few minutes as women
came and went, a few more intrepid couples leaning against the side of
the large brick building, making out and touching one another.

"Well, we should go," Natalie said. That's when an idea suddenly
dawned on me, one that I look back on and relish for even having.

"I say we go in. Check it out some," I said to Natalie, my hand
subconsciously resting on her arm. I glanced down and noticed myself
doing it, Natalie's warm skin beneath my touch, and to my surprise
Natalie not shirking it away.

"We can't go in there! We aren't lesbians!" Natalie said, a little
loudly, soliciting a few more looks from some women nearby.

I thought fast. "No, we aren't. But hey, maybe we could just go in
and have a drink and scope it out, see how the other half lives," I
said.

"Are you crazy? The media would have a FIELD DAY with something like
that. 'Star Wars actress seen inside lesbian club', that sort of
thing," Natalie said, taken aback by my suggestion and now moving her
arm away from me.

"Think about it Natalie: who is going to be in there to even report
this back to the outside world? You already are a critical darling, I
don't think they would be able to even print dirt about you,
especially if you just went inside to have a drink. You could just
brush it off, say it was an honest mistake," I said, trying to keep my
voice from sounding too pleading. If I could get her in the club,
things might go where I had always fantasized about them going...

"And what about you? How would you get in?" Natalie asked.

"Oh girlfriend, you don't need to worry about me at all. That's such
a SILLY question," I said, putting on my most effeminate voice and
limp wristing my hand in a stereotypical gay gesture.

Natalie laughed at my voice change. "I still don't know..."

"Ok, well then look at it as research. Research for your paper and
research for your life. You only live once, and what an experience to
think about when you are 80 years old, you know?" I said to her.

"I guess so..." Natalie said, still thinking about it.

"One drink, one look around and then we get out of there. Sound
cool?" I said, going in for the kill.

"Alright, but just ONE drink. And you better put on your most flaming
act possible, because I don't think that the bouncer would let you in
otherwise," Natalie said as we walked to the back of the line. I fixed
up my shirt and pants, making myself as neat and presentable as
possible, going for the suave and stylish look.

As we moved closer up in line, Natalie was just a few heads away from
the door. The bouncer rejected two girls in front of us and, despite
their crying, motioned for them to get out of line. We walked up to
the woman.

"Name," she grunted.

Natalie looked a little hesitant. "Umm...I'm not on the list. My name
is, uhh..." Natalie said, stuttering.

The bouncer sighed heavily. "Look bitch, either you're on the list or
you are waiting with everyone else. Now move," she said, pushing hard
at Natalie's shoulder to guide her out of the way. I stepped up
quickly to the bouncer.

Re:C: A Dead Language?

[Anonymous Coward]

[continued ...]

"Sister, don't you know who this is?" I said, my feminine voice
returning again. "This is Queen Amidala herself, Miss Natalie Portman.
I think that she doesn't even need to be on your silly list, don't
you?" I said, putting my hand on my hip as a sign of annoyance.

The guard glanced up from her clipboard and looked Natalie over.
Natalie looked nervous, pushing her hair back behind her ears as she
smiled a little nervously, her eyes on the ground in front of her. The
bouncer's face shifted to a smile, her yellowish teeth broadening as
she recognized Natalie.

"You know, you're right. I guess we can make an exception for you
this time," the guard said, pulling aside the rope. "But you have to
do me one favor,"

"What's that?" Natalie asked nervously.

"Tell George Lucas that the new movies SUCK," the guard said. We all
laughed at this and she motioned for us to go on in. I passed by her
and followed Natalie into the darkness of the club, the music and
smoke and lights flashing and moving all around us.

"What the hell was that?" Natalie said to me, leaning in close.

"Celebrity status. I don't like to use it if I don't have to, but
sometimes the situation warrants it," I said, winking at her. She
shoved me playfully as we walked further inside. We made our way
through a throng of women - both young and old, butch and not, and
headed to the bar. There was just one empty seat, right near the
middle of the long row, amongst the crowd of women coming and going. I
stood next to Natalie, leaning on the bar, trying not to show too much
arousal by the two women I saw at the end of the bar, making out.

"I'll take a Zima," Natalie said to the bartender, who gave her the
once over but then handed her a drink from beneath the bar. I was
surprised that she wasn't checking Natalie's ID, since she had just
barely turned 21, but I wasn't certainly going to tell her to do so.

"Cosmopolitan," I said to the bartender. I personally couldn't stand
the drink itself, but I had to keep up my appearances, after all. She
slid it to me and I handed her some money for the drinks, leaning back
on the bar to watch girls bumping and grinding on the dance floor.

There was one girl who caught my eye in particular, a clubbing type
for sure. She wore a tight, white tube top that left her midriff
exposed and her belly button ring clearly visible, and a pair of tight
black pants that seemed to make her legs go on for miles. To top it
all off, it was hard to miss the pink hair on the top of her head,
styled in two ponytails that gave her a pouty, slutty look. She caught
me looking at her and stared back at me and Natalie (who was nervously
sipping her drink, trying not to be spotted) as I quickly looked away.

"See, this isn't so bad?" I said to Natalie. "And just think, you can
now safely tell your friends that you were in a lesbian bar,"

"Hardy har. I don't know why you talked me into this, but as soon as
I'm done with this drink, we are out of here. This just isn't my
thing," Natalie said. I was going to ask how she KNEW it wasn't her
thing, but then the pink hair girl came up next to Natalie by the bar.

"Hey baby, buy you a drink?" she said to Natalie. I could see a stud
in her tongue and now clearly see that this girl was obviously the
"bitch" in any relationship...she looked somewhat tough, no doubt, but
was undoubtedly into all the makeup and fashion stylings of most
straight girls. Natalie about spilled her drink all over herself when
the girl touched her shoulder.

"Uhh, no thanks, my friend and I were just," Natalie said,
stuttering.

"Leaving? No way, not without dancing with me first," the pink haired
girl said. "I saw you walk into this place from a mile away, there
ain't no way I'm letting a cutie like you leave here without one
little dance," the girl said. In the closer vicinity, she was actually
quite cute - high cheekbones like Natalie, full pouty lips and much
larger breasts than I had seen from far away. The fleshy orbs seemed
to be set to burst out of her tube top any minute.

"Oh come on Natalie, the girl just wants to dance!" I said to her in
my feminine voice, perhaps giving it TOO much emphasis.

"You heard the boy, now come on. Don't make me drag you," the pink
haired girl said. Natalie still seemed hesitant but the girl would not
take no for an answer, lifting Natalie underneath the arm and pulling
her out onto the floor a bit, Natalie stumbling as she half-walked,
half-drug herself out there. I promptly took her seat and sat back to
watch the show.

The DJ was playing a thumping bass beat, the words drowned out in the
really bad acoustics of the place, leaving just a rhythm to move to as
the lights flashed and glowed above the dance floor. Natalie and the
pink haired girl took a spot towards me, a little bit inside the crowd
on the floor. Natalie just stood there like a stump at first, the pink
haired girl bumping into her and rubbing her body against Natalie's
small frame. Natalie started to make an effort, moving her feet a
little bit at first and then as the music started to take over, her
legs and hips as well.

Before long, Natalie was getting into things. She still kept some
distance from the girl and didn't make any moves to reciprocate the
pink girl's hands moving onto Natalie's hips and ass, pulling her
close. But Natalie could certainly dance, her uptightness over the
whole thing starting to fade away. Natalie allowed herself to get
closer now, the pink girl's face just a few inches from Natalie's own
as they moved together in rhythm, dipping their hips down and up to
the music, their bodies in perfect sync.

I tried to keep my growing erection from showing too much as I
slouched on the bar stool, sipping at the down right nasty mixed drink
I held in my hand. I couldn't believe what I was actually seeing take
place in front of me was real, that I had actually managed to convince
Natalie Portman to go into a lesbian bar and actually DANCE with
someone, but here it was and I was loving every minute of it.

Life began to imitate art further now as I saw the pink haired girl,
her hand slipping into a tight pocket on her hips reach in and pull
out what looked like two white pills. She slipped one into her mouth
and held the other one out to Natalie. Natalie shook her head no, but
again the pink haired girl wouldn't quit. She held her hand up by
Natalie's mouth, her other hand taking hold of Natalie's hips and
grinding her own against Natalie's trim tummy as she offered the pill
- clearly Ecstasy in a place like this - to Natalie. Natalie continued
to resist, so the girl tried a different route. She placed the pill
between her teeth and leaned her mouth in very close to Natalie's,
pushing her lips onto the starlet's own. This was like my very first
celeb story almost to a T and I couldn't believe that it was actually
happening.

As she kissed Natalie, I saw her mouth open slightly and the pill
disappear from view into Natalie's mouth. For her part Natalie had
resisted the kiss as well, but when their lips touched Natalie seemed
to open her mouth slowly in reluctance, allowing the girl's tongue to
slip inside and deliver it's contents. They broke the kiss and the
pink girl smiled at Natalie, her free hand moving up to Natalie's hair
and unclasping it from the ponytail it was in, allowing the hair to
fall freely around Natalie's neck.

The song began to wind down, as did their dance and the pink haired
girl led Natalie by the wrist over towards me.

"I'm borrowing your friend upstairs for a few minutes. I'll have her
back and probably better than new real quick, don't worry," she said,
leading Natalie passed me to a set of stairs towards the back of the
building. Natalie's eyes caught mine and they seemed to plead "Come
with me!" as she was led away and into the crowd of people. I grabbed
the drinks and followed the two, pushing my way through couples and
gyrating girls towards the dimly lit stairs.

The pink haired girl saw me follow her but made no move to stop me or
say anything as they bounded up the spiral staircase almost two steps
at a time. I followed right behind, not wanting Natalie to be left
alone, especially now that she had taken that pill.

The upstairs was much more empty than downstairs, and it was quite
clearly a place for couples to go and be alone. There were various
insets cut out along the wall, like telephone booths without a door to
allow entrance. As Natalie was led down a row of about four or five,
they turned suddenly into an apparently empty one, disappearing from
my site. I caught up to them and stood there in front of them, Natalie
now sitting on the pink haired girls lap, who was busy stroking
Natalie's hair.

Natalie looked a little shell-shocked at what was going on, but
perhaps it was the alcohol or the early effects of the Ecstasy that
was lowering her inhibitions, for she made no move to stop it.

"Uh, here is your drink Natalie," I said to her, thrusting it out to
her. The pink haired girl took it and set it down on the floor.

"Thanks. Hey, why don't you go get us another one huh?" she said,
still stroking Natalie's hair.

I stood there dumbly for a moment, just watching the scene of
Natalie, such a timid and quiet girl being petted by this bold and
beautiful lesbian. I must have been standing there for too long
though, because the pink haired girl snapped at me.

"Hello? That means like, now!" she said.

"Oh yes, I'm sorry. I'll leave you two ladies alone," I said, turning
as if to walk away. I caught one last glimpse of resistance in
Natalie's eyes as I moved past her further down the hall. I had
absolutely no intention of "getting drinks", but I had to find a spot
to watch and see how far Natalie would actually go.

Hustling quickly down the hallway away from where Natalie was, I
glanced around, trying to find a place to give me a spot to watch the
action. It looked like I was going to be out of luck until I noticed a
catwalk rising above the whole building a few feet from the ceiling.
There was a ladder, rusty and old but still usable it appeared, hidden
in a dark corner at the end of the hallway. Making sure no one saw me
as I approached it, I climbed up it hurriedly and looked around as I
stood up at it's base.

I could see the whole club from here, and perhaps more important, I
don't think anyone could see me on it. The catwalk ran from one side
of the building to the other, pressed flush against the wall. Walking
slowly down it, I dodged cables and light fixtures that hung down.
Glancing through the mesh metal flooring, I had a perfect birds-eye
view of everything below me, including the little stall like rooms
that I had just passed. I continued to walk down slowly, spotting
couples making out and having sex in the private rooms below me, women
of all shapes and sizes going at it with one another. I counted down
the rooms, five from where I had first started and finally spotted
Natalie and the pink haired girl in the room directly below me.
Dropping down to my stomach, I laid down prone on the catwalk, leaning
my head down as I watched Natalie and her new "friend" begin their
foreplay.

Natalie had moved off the girls lap now and was sitting on a bench
with her back against the wall. The other girl was standing over
Natalie, her body leaning against Natalie's own thin frame, her pink
hair now free from the ponytails and hanging down over her shoulders.
I was probably 6 or 7 feet up from them and could just barely make out
what they were saying.

Still a bit nervous, Natalie seemed to be loosening up as the girl
began to kiss her neck mouth passionately. Natalie turned her face
away at first, but as the kisses grew more heated and more frequent,
she finally turned back and allowed the girl to plant what appeared to
be a hot, wet kiss right into Natalie's small mouth. Natalie leaned
forward into the girl, returning the kiss for a moment before breaking
it and panting, her chest rising and falling rapidly from the
excitement.

The pink haired girl stepped back for a moment and reached down to
the base of her tube top, pulling it upwards and over her head,
revealing a well proportioned frame and a large pair of breasts, the
nipples visible only to me from the top as they jutted from her
breasts. The girl leaned into Natalie again, pressing Natalie's face
between her tits and holding it there as she stroked Natalie's hair.

Natalie pushed away for a moment and I strained to hear what she
said.

"Wait wait, I don't know if I can do this. I don't even know your
name," Natalie said.

"It's Stacy, and yes you can. Don't worry girl, I'll take good care
of you," the girl said.

"But...I've never done it...you know, with a girl before..." Natalie
said hesitantly.

"Shh...don't stress baby doll, I'll be real gentle and make you feel
real good. Is the pill working on you yet?" Stacy said.

"I...I think so. I still don't know though, about what we are doing I
mean," Natalie said meekly. Stacy didn't give her a chance to continue
arguing though, instead pressing her whole body against Natalie, her
large breasts crushing against Natalie's own as she held her against
the wall. Their lips just inches apart, Natalie finally conceded to
her desire and made a tentative move to kiss Stacy on the lips, to
which Stacy replied with an excited fervor.

I could see Stacy's hands as they moved behind Natalie's back,
holding her closer to her naked torso as her hands roamed up and down
Natalie's firm body. Stacy's hands crushed against Natalie's chest as
her busy fingers touched and fondled Natalie through the blouse that
she wore, a few fingers slipping in here and there to steal a touch
upon Natalie's soft flesh beneath her clothes. They continued to make
out for a few minutes, Natalie excited by the passion and new
sensations of being with a woman as she became lost in the moment.

Stacy's fingers found the buttons on Natalie's blouse and ripped her
shirt open hard and fast, revealing Natalie's tanned upper body clad
only in a small black bra. Natalie took the initiative however and
reached behind her back, undoing the garment and flinging it aside as
they both returned to one another, their upper bodies naked and
breasts heaving.

I would have killed for a better angle to see Natalie's breasts, but
from what I could make out they were just as I had remembered seeing
in the tabloid pictures a few years ago: small nipples, brown and
slightly pointy as they stuck from her handful sized breasts. It was
hard to get a good look though, because the two girls were now really
going at it, twisting and writhing with one another on the bench of
the room. Stacy's head dropped down to Natalie's breast and her face
disappeared, Natalie's hand stroking the top of the girl's head as she
suckled and licked Natalie's tit. Stacy must have been a little rough
however, because Natalie cried out in surprise and pleasure as she
arched her back away from the wall, Stacy's mouth still over her
nipple.

Stacy lifted her head up again, flinging her hair over her shoulder
as she and Natalie held each other's gaze for a moment, both women
flushed and wet with sweat and sexual arousal. I watched with bated
breath as Stacy moved her hands to the zipper of Natalie's khaki skirt
and began to wiggle it off of Natalie's small hips, the material
falling and crumpling into a ball at the ground beneath them. I could
see a glimpse of Natalie's matching black panties, but it was really
only a glimpse because Stacy wasted no time in removing them from the
slender legs of Natalie and casting them aside on the floor as well.

Dropping to her knees in front of Natalie's splayed legs, Stacy's
head and mouthed disappeared between the young Amidala's thighs, her
face shielded from my view by the hair on Stacy's head. It didn't take
a rocket scientist however to figure out what was going on and I felt
myself grow more and more excited as I watched Natalie's first lesbian
experience unfold just a few feet from me.

At first, Natalie seemed to be a little surprised by Stacy's actions,
simply sitting there and watching the girl as she licked and moved her
mouth around inside Natalie's quite wet box (even over the sound of
the club, I could still hear the wet sucking coming from beneath me).
But after a few moments, Natalie's legs and hips began to move and
slide on the bench, her legs thrusting slowly by their own accord
against Stacy's face, her hips really starting to buck.

Reclining her head against the wall of the room, Natalie leaned back,
her curly brown hair falling over her shoulders as she arched her back
and pressed her pussy against Stacy's busy mouth. Stacy lifted her
face from Natalie's legs, standing up slightly to kiss Natalie once
again. There was no mistaking the passion as Natalie licked her own
juices away from Stacy's face, her small tongue roaming and wiping
away all that it could get it's seemingly unquenchable palette onto.
As they kissed once more, Stacy dropped her hand between Natalie's
legs and I saw as a few fingers slid into Natalie's waiting box,
Stacy's hand fucking Natalie hard as they kissed.

Natalie bucked and writhed on Stacy's hand, closing her legs tightly
against the girl's fingers as she pushed harder into Natalie, making
Natalie gasp and moan loudly from where she sat. Her head leaning back
against the wall, Natalie broke the kiss long enough just to tilt her
head upwards and pant, her eyes closed tightly in the lost, passionate
realm she was in.

Stacy kissed Natalie once on the cheek before lowering her face once
more down Natalie's body. This time she made sure to plant loving
kisses and licks all over Natalie's small, naked body, first on her
neck then moving from one breast to another and then finally to
Natalie's taught tummy before repositioning herself between Natalie's
now spread-eagle legs.

Natalie moaned once more as Stacy licked happily at her cunt,
Natalie's two hands busy in holding onto Stacy's head, guiding her
mouth around and into her dripping twat, the other hand rubbing and
squeezing against her small breasts. Stacy raked her hand down
Natalie's body, sliding her fingers back down to her hot pussy and
slipping her fingers once again into Natalie while her mouth licked
Natalie at a feverish pace. Stacy's head bobbed up and down and by the
shuddering of Natalie's body, I knew that she was very very close to
cumming.

With a very loud moan, Natalie did just that, her ass rising totally
off the seat as she bucked her hips hard into Stacy's face. Stacy held
her legs down to keep from being flung off of Natalie, keeping her
mouth pressed onto the girl's snatch. Natalie continued to buck and
cry out in an unintelligible yell, her orgasm causing her body to
tremble and shiver with the pleasure of her orgasmic release.

Her hips slowing, Natalie finally came to a stop, her legs dangling
from the bench as she slumped against the wall, panting. Stacy lapped
at her tenderly for another minute or so then slowly rose up from
between Natalie's legs and spread her own legs over the girl's
trembling thighs, leaning into Natalie. I watched as they shared a
passionate kiss and held one another for a moment, Stacy's face wet
and sticky from the juices, all the more evident by the dim light that
shined down upon these two beauties.

I had almost blown my own load in my pants watching the scene, but as
the two girls kissed and fondled one another, I realized that the show
was over and that they might be looking for me any second now.
Standing up, my erection was painfully hard in my pants as I walked
slowly back to the ladder of the catwalk, glancing down first to make
sure no one saw me.

I treaded lightly down the hallway once again, spotting two drinks
left on the bench in one of the adjacent stalls. I took them in my
hands - they weren't cold but they would work as convincing props -
and walked down to where Natalie and Stacy were. I tentatively peaked
around the corner as I came in, finding both girls sitting there next
to each other, fully clothed. Natalie was buttoning up her blouse and
Stacy had her tube top back on, straightening out the edges as if
nothing had happened. Both girls faces were sweaty and flushed from
their very obvious activities that had just taken place, and Natalie
seemed to radiate a sort of glow, her eyes glazed over in post-coital
bliss.

"Here you are ladies, sorry if they are a bit warm. I had to wait in
line," I said sheepishly, trying to avoid letting them know I had seen
what they had been up to (my erection had thankfully subsided).
Natalie took the drink from my hand and slowly drank from it. I don't
know if she actually liked it - it was some sort of fruity cocktail -
but from the amount of sweat she had apparently shed, I knew she was
thirsty.

Stacy walked over to me and took the drink from my hand, walking
past. "Thanks guy. Hope to see you again sweetie," she said. I thought
at first that the comment was directed towards me but then I realized
she had been talking to Natalie.

Natalie finished the drink completely with a gasp, setting the glass
down on the bench next to her.

"Natalie?" I said, for she didn't look like she was going to be
moving any time soon, her back seeming to melt into the wall. Natalie
turned to look at me.

"You ready to leave?" I asked. She simply nodded and stood up, her
legs a little wobbly from the alcohol, sex and drugs she had partaken
in over the last few minutes. She steadied herself on my arm and we
walked back downstairs, through the throng of women still dancing and
gyrating with one another and out into the night air.

Natalie leaned her head against my shoulder and from the way she was
pressing against me, I knew that she wouldn't be able to walk much
distance at all. Thus, I decided that a cab would be the best bet and
led Natalie to the curb as I waited for one to come by and pick us up.

A few minutes later one arrived and I sort of shoved Natalie into the
backseat as I climbed in next to her.

"Where do you want to go?" the man asked, his voice heavy with a
thick Arabian accent.

"Umm..not sure, hang on a second," I said to him. I nudged Natalie,
who had leaned her head against the side of the car and the seat, her
eyes closed. I thought for a moment that she was asleep.

"Natalie? Tell the man where your apartment is okay? I don't know and
I think you need to go home," I said to her.

Natalie leaned forward on the seat woozily and half-slurred the
street name to the man. He nodded his head and we were off down the
still-busy roadways of Boston, the air rushing in around us through
the open back windows.

The ride was fairly short and within a few minutes the cabbie pulled
to a stop in front of a row of old-style brownstone houses. I pulled
some money from my wallet and handed it to him, tipping him graciously
as I helped lead Natalie out of the car. The cabbie pulled off and I
led Natalie towards the steps of the house, the street empty and
quiet, a few lights on in neighboring buildings around us. The ride
had sobered Natalie up a bit (or perhaps it had been the night air.
I'll never know) and she seemed to be able to walk better by herself
as I led her up the steps and into the apartment.

Natalie fumbled in her laptop bag for her keys, struggling to find
them though the sound of the metallic ring sliding around in the bag
was filling the tomb-quiet hallway. I leaned over to her and helped
her pull her keys out.

"Thanks," she said, taking the keys from my hand and heading up the
stairs to her apartment. We walked quietly up the carpeted steps,
slowly and carefully so as not to wake up the other tenants. Natalie
stopped in front of her door and opened the room, flipping on a wall
switch as she stepped through the threshold and turned to face me.

"Don't you want to come in?" Natalie said to me, setting her back on
the floor by the door.

"Only if you want me to," I replied. Natalie thought for a moment.

"Well, you already opened my eyes to what it's like to be sexual
adventurous for once, the least I can do is repay you. That is, unless
you have somewhere else to go?" she said.

"I don't. But I just want to make sure you know where things could
lead if I do come in," I replied.

"I do. And I think, after tonight and getting to know you better and
all that, I do," she said. I nodded and stepped into the apartment
next to her, Natalie closing the door softly behind us. I stood there
for a moment as Natalie walked into the living room, checking the
messages on her answering machine. I put my hands in my pockets while
Natalie busied herself with her own tasks, waiting to see wanted to do
next.

"You don't have to stand there. Here, come have a seat," she said,
motioning towards the couch. I walked over to it and sat down while
Natalie scribbled down some phone numbers from the answering machine,
the tape clicking as it came to it's last message. Natalie joined me
on the couch then.

"Tonight was fun. I don't know what got into me, but the combination
of your very persuasive arguments in going into that club plus the
pill I took from that girl, whose name was Stacy by the way, and the
fun we had have definitely changed my mind on a lot of things. I don't
think I'll be such a prude from now on," Natalie said.

"I never thought you were a prude Natalie," I replied. "I only
thought you weren't comfortable with your own sexual fantasies, and
that's why you wrote your paper on CSSA. You didn't want to admit to
yourself the way you felt, that you weren't very adventurous when it
came to your own thoughts,"

"Maybe so. But I will be more open minded from now on. Life is too
short not to have a little bit of fun now and then, and as long as
it's in moderation and is as safe as can be, I think it's healthy to
get to know yourself better," Natalie said.

"So does that mean you might be more open to sleeping with guys you
just met?" I asked with a grin.

"What, like you?" Natalie replied with a wicked smile. I laughed.

"Well, with me would certainly be nice. All night I couldn't stop
thinking about how beautiful and sexy you were. But I just meant in
general," I said.

"I don't know, I would probably just have to try it out, see how I
felt about it," Natalie said. She leaned to me and gave me a hug, her
mouth right by my ear as I held her closer to me.

"I'm willing to try it out now if you are too," Natalie said. I
didn't say anything for a moment and as Natalie lifted her head away
from my shoulder, I looked deep into her brown eyes. They were like
beautiful pools of chocolate, the flecks in them dancing around like
mystical fire within her face, representing to me the intelligence and
beauty and grace of Natalie, but also how she was after all just human
and had the same desires as everyone else.

I moved my mouth closer to hers and within a moment our lips touched,
the electric excitement of the kiss sending cold chills down my spine
as her soft lips pressed against my own. Natalie's small mouth parted
gently beneath my kiss as I began to slip my tongue into her mouth,
passing over Natalie's own tongue and deeper into the depths of her
hot, wet mouth. Natalie returned the kiss and I could feel her little
tongue start to explore my own mouth as we pressed in closer to each
other, my arms instinctively wrapping around her shoulders to savor
the moment, to make it last and stay embedded in my memories forever.

My hands roamed up and down Natalie's back, feeling her soft body
beneath my touch, the smoothness of her flesh radiating heat from
beneath the silk blouse she still wore, the top behind her neck wet
with sweat and perspiration. Our kissing grew more and more heated
with every passing second, Natalie's head and my own moving and
weaving around as we pushed hard against one another, trying to
explore as much of each other's bodies as possible. I knew that
Natalie's increased passion and heat were from the Ecstasy she had
taken at the party, but it didn't matter to me...all I knew was that
the drug hadn't altered her desire and that I was lucky to have this
experience just once in my life, with a celebrity and beautiful woman
like Natalie.

I broke the kiss, Natalie panting a little, her face flushed from the
excitement. A small drop of perspiration formed on her head, like
morning dew on a blade of grass and it seemed to excite me even
further, my body and mind gone completely to the task of making this
time with Natalie last.

"Let's go into the bedroom," Natalie said. She stood up and I walked
behind her, my arms wrapped around her waist as I felt her firm
stomach underneath my touch, my fingers lifting up the material
slightly so that I could feel the smooth heat coming from her body.
Natalie lead me into the bedroom and turned on the light, kicking off
her shoes before stepping away from me for an agonizing moment to
clear off the bed from the books and stuffed animals (a memory of her
childhood no doubt, but it made her all the more sexy in mind, the
clash between a young girl and an excitable woman making her allure
undeniable.) She pulled back the sheets and wasted no time undressing
herself as I stood by the bed and did the same.

Within a few moments, we were both naked on the bed, my cock jutting
obscenely from my waist as I laid down next to Natalie on the bed. She
was even more beautiful than the awkward light of the club had allowed
me to see. Her body was petite and flawless, from her gorgeous breasts
to the small patch of pubic hair between her legs to her smiling face,
a smile that looked at me with affection and lust. Natalie was without
a doubt the most beautiful woman I had ever been with and probably
would ever be with.

She rubbed a finger along her hip and thigh, making nonsensical
circles and shapes over the smooth skin of her leg, the smallest hairs
of her body brushing back to the will of her finger as she caressed
her own skin. Natalie was propped up on her elbow as she faced me, our
faces just inches apart on the bed, neither of us saying anything. I
breathed in deeply, savoring her scent - a delicate blend of her
perfume from much earlier in the day, the sweat of her body and the
aroma of her sexual excitement intoxicating me to the point that I
almost became dizzy from it. I placed my hand on Natalie's own and
guided her finger along the rest of her body, moving up from her hips
to her stomach and chest, between her cleavage and along the soft
flesh of her neck, Natalie tilting her head up as my fingernail
brushed over skin.

Natalie moved her hand free of mine and pulled my index finger up to
her mouth. She took it in between her lips, sucking lightly on the tip
as her warm saliva coated my digit from the tip to the base. This
gesture was incredibly erotic, I found, and I almost hated it to be
over as finally pushed it free from her lips, a sexy smile on her face
as she did so.

Rolling over onto her back, Natalie reached into a bedside table and
pulled out a condom, unwrapping it holding it between her fingers, the
lubricant making them slightly wet and damp as she held it, looking at
this small piece of rubber.

"I thought you didn't do this sort of thing that often?" I said to
her with a smile.

"Always be prepared," she replied. I leaned down and kissed her
gently on the lips before sitting up and crawling over her body, my
legs almost dangling off her small bed as I held myself over her.
Natalie raised her head off a pillow and glanced down at my swaying
cock, catching it in her hand. The feeling of her small hand wrapped
around my prick was heavenly and I thought that I would blow my load
right then. As she moved the condom down by the tip of my shaft, I
leaned forward slightly to meet her hand, feeling the tightness of the
latex as she slowly unraveled it down my prick.

Natalie pushed it down all the way onto my 7 inches of cock,
unwrapping it to the base as she squeezed me firm to make sure it was
on and stayed on. I moaned slightly to myself at this added pressure,
Natalie's hand falling away from my prick to move up my body and
chest, her fingers rubbing over my stomach and up over my nipples, as
if electricity flowed from her hand to my body.

I looked down and watched as Natalie spread her legs slightly, her
pink lips opening up like a delicate flower beneath me as I pushed my
hips down to her opening and aligned my cock with her hole. I felt the
tip press against her fiery hot sex and locked eyes with Natalie as I
slowly pushed myself into her.

Watching her face as I pressed the tip into her body, Natalie just
smiled at me slightly as more and more of shaft began to slide into
her wet twat, the head going further into her tight channel with each
passing second. I pushed harder into her, as my dick became engulfed
in Natalie's stretching cunt lips, her legs parting even more to allow
me more room. I sighed contentedly as I finally bottomed out inside of
her young snatch, the world around me disappearing as I held myself
inside of her for a moment, inside of her tight walls that seemed to
hold me in a death grip like a vice.

Slowly, so as not to hurt Natalie at all, I began to ease myself back
out of her slightly, her inner muscles squeezing onto me as they tried
to hold me deeper into her body. I removed about half of my dick from
her body before sliding back into her slowly, the lubrication from the
condom and of Natalie's own wet box making my gliding motions easier
with every push. Natalie held onto my shoulders with one hand and
stroked my face softly with the other, the back of her hand brushing
along my unshaven cheek as we moved as one, my body and hers a cosmic
uniting of sexual fulfillment.

I lowered myself to my elbows to give me better stamina in fucking
her (I knew I wouldn't last very long) and our faces were just an inch
or so apart as I moved my hips up and down into her pussy. Even
through the condom, I could feel the softness of her inner cunt
rubbing against the sensitive flesh of my prick, the caress of her
body just as beautiful and amazing as everything else about her. I
began to get a good pace going inside of her as I worked myself in and
out, feeling her body respond to my thrusts and hearing her soft
breath in my ear as she grew more and more excited.

My balls rested firmly against her ass, sliding up and down along her
sex as I made love to her, my sac rubbing over her exposed and excited
clit as I rocked myself into and out of her body. Natalie was still
feeling the effects of the drugs and seemed to be fascinated with the
feel of my skin beneath her fingers, rubbing and feeling each and
every hair on my chest and forearms as she responded to my fucking my
grinding her hips hard against my own. Her eyes had a sort of dull
glaze to them, the pleasure overwhelming her senses and making her
body flush with excitement as I continued to slide in and out of her,
unsure how much longer I could keep going without releasing my pent up
load.

My nuts began to tighten slightly from the course of our lovemaking
and the different texture that they took on seemed to excite Natalie
even more, her body moving faster and faster against me, her clit a
hard little nub as I made sure to rub against it while I slid myself
into her. She must have been close to orgasm because as I pushed into
her harder now (Natalie was speeding things up, not me. I wanted to
last as long as possible), she suddenly gave a deep throated cry and
her legs shot up from the bed for a moment, the pleasure of cumming
rushing through her body. I glanced back to see her toes curling up
and then felt her body tremble beneath me as she came, my dick
burrowed as deep as possible into her snatch, her body shaking as I
felt a small trickle of her juices escape from between her thighs.

Natalie lifted her head up and kissed me again, a passionate kiss as
she shoved her tongue into my mouth as if to thank me for making her
cum. She leaned back down on the bed and breathed heavily for a
moment, still lost in her own world of bliss. I continued my pace
inside of her, but I knew that from the way Natalie's pussy had
contracted around me that I was just seconds away from cumming.

Turns out I was right. As I slid myself into Natalie one more time to
the fullest, I held myself there to feel the tightness of her snatch.
Instinctively or not, her cunt squeezed me the hardest all night as I
held myself there and I felt my orgasm begin, the white hot cum
shooting up from my balls and out of my prick in an explosion that
almost made me black out. I lost track of how many times I shot, but I
could feel each one as the head of my prick expanded to make room for
the streams of my juice to spill forth. I saw stars for a moment as
the orgasm ended and then finally, out of breath, lowered myself down
onto Natalie's body, almost crushing her from my exhaustion. We laid
like that for a moment before I finally (and regretfully) pulled my
prick from her snatch and rolled over onto to the bed next to her,
sliding the skin tight condom off before my dick grew soft. I sat up
and tossed it into a nearby wastebasket before laying back down on the
bed.

Natalie curled up next to me, and I could feel her heartbeat slowly
returning to normal in her chest as her small breasts brushed against
my forearm. Within a few moments she was sound asleep, a small smile
on her face as she slept - a look of contentment.

I laid there holding her for a while, probably a few hours, unable to
sleep. Sitting up, I saw that it was almost 3 in the morning and
decided that it might be time to leave, lest I get locked out of my
hotel for the night. Dressing quietly, I carried my shoes and left
Natalie's apartment, turning off the lights and shutting the door
behind me before walking out onto the street once more and into the
quiet night.

The next afternoon, I made sure I had a front row seat for Natalie's
continued speech. Muscling my way in past the exact same "Star Wars"
geeks, I took a seat front and center so I could see if Natalie really
had changed her tune about the site.

Natalie took the podium, wearing a pink blouse that opened up
slightly above her breasts and a pair of black pants that clung to
shapely legs. She didn't see me sitting in the front row...not until
she started her speech at least.

"Thank you all for coming back for a second day, as I wrap up my
thesis paper. I had originally planned to continue to argue the point
against celebrity pornography on the Internet, but in light of a few
recent events and consultation with knowledgeable sources, who will be
named in my revised draft, I have come to an entirely different
conclusion than my hypothesis first suggested," Natalie said into the
microphone. There was a quiet murmuring running through the auditorium
as people whispered to the person next to them, wondering what she
meant.

"The truth is, these authors and whom the mainstream press and
academia would call pornographers are really nothing more than
enlightened members of our society, men and women who are in touch not
only with their sexual selves but also grasp an ability unlike other
people out there to balance out their lives between ones of fantasy
and personal desire. They possess the skills needed to live an orderly
and perhaps even imitateable lifestyle where everything that they do
is in true balance. It is the liberals and people such as the authors
of C-S-S-A.com that are advancing our society, not the old time
prudish nature of those who seek to closet up sexuality and lust for
those we admire in our world," Natalie said.

Now the noise was almost deafening, people not believing what they
had heard.

"I am not at this point ready to conclude this topic of research, so
until that time is reached I must delay my final thesis paper so that
I can make revisions in light of this new information. I would take
questions on the topic today, but I really must be going. Good day,"
Natalie finished, walking quickly away from the podium and out a
nearby side door. People had risen from their chairs and were shouting
questions at her, asking her to clarify what she meant.

But Natalie ignored them as she walked past. She did however see me
sitting in the audience near her and when I smiled at her while she
strode past, I could have sworn I saw a slight wink in her eye. I
grinned to myself for a second as Natalie vanished out the door and
then stood up amongst the crowd and the loud noise of the auditorium.
The "Star Wars" geeks sat stunned at what they had heard her say, but
they remained motionless.

I paid them no heed as I quickly glanced around to make sure no one
followed me and then promptly walked through the door that Natalie had
just left, finding her waiting there for me, a wicked smile on her
face.

THE END

[from: http://www.carnagejackson.com]

Re:C: A Dead Language?

[HappyUser]

Wow, a troll!

What kind of programmer would call vb a better language than C?!?p>
Sure C has it's problems, but please vb is for small projects.

Re:C: A Dead Language?

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

P-Code is a dead language!!!!

Oh wait, damn that was a bad troll....

Re:C: A Dead Language?

[Anonymous Coward]

A beautiful story, well done!

Re:C: A Dead Language?

[LinuxIsDyingGuy]

It is official; Netcraft confirms: *The Who is ying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Who community when Yahoo! confirmed that a Who musician has dropped yet again, now they are down to less than a fraction of 66% percent of all members. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that The Who has lost more band members, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. The Whoe is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by coming dead last in the recent MTV comprehensive music test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict The Who's future. The hand writing is on the wall: The Who face a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for The Who because The Who is dying. Things are looking very bad for The Who. As many of us are already aware, The Who continues to lose market share. Blood flows like a river of red ink.

Who member "Ox" is the most endangered of them all, having lost 26% of his body to decomposition. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time The Who member "Ox" only serves to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: The Who is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

Who leader Roger Daltrey states that there are 7000 fans of The Who. How many fans of "Ox" were there? Let's see. The number of Who versus "Ox" posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 "Ox" fans. The Who posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of Elvis posts. Therefore there are about 700 fans of The Who. A recent article put The Who at about 60 percent alive. Therefore there are now (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 The Who fans. This is consistent with the number of Who Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of the music business, abysmal sales and so on, The Who went out of existance and was taken over by MCA Records who sells more troubled BS. Now MCA Records is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All majr surveys show that The Who has steadily declined in market share. The Who is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If The Who is to survive at ll it will be among music dilettante dabblers. The Who continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, The Who is dead.

Fact: The Who is ying

Re:C: A Dead Language?

[Anonymous Coward]

damnit, modded down already... does anybody have a sense of humor anymore?

Re:C: A Dead Language?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone who _needs_ GUI based coding can't code, your comment about gcc didn't make sense, and any non-retard could tell you that M$FT shared source means M$ owns your code. The GPL is the one that's free. If you had any idea what you were talking about you would know that the FSF doesn't own your code. It is FREE, as in not owned by anyone. You seem to have mixed them up, and you obviously aren't a real programmer, you're just a M$ drone.

Re:C: A Dead Language?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this some kind of double troll, falling for an obvious troll to see how many people point out how trolled he is... or is this AC just really fucking stupid?

Focus on the SP

[Pr0n K1ng]

Get it in you!

Ransom Love Loves You!

If this isn't first post

[Alec_Baldwin]

Then I must not be using my Microsoft .NET computer. (CLIT)

Re:If this isn't first post

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck CLIT and fuck all you Linux communist zealots. Booyah!

First dibs on #41

[Anonymous Coward]

He's sexier than a stack of kuro5hin calendars.

Re:First dibs on #41

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, man! Cox has more beard than everyone else combined!

Re:First dibs on #41

[Akito]

i count one female, can anybody confirm this. some of the guys are borderline

Re:First dibs on #41

[theodoliteq]

lnus is lookin' good, looks like he's been workin. out. I'm mildly disturbed, think I will masurbate to this pic. Thanx for the link && pic( i'm so horny I cant wait for my boyfriend).

Notice

[Slashdot's Attorney]

The opinions expressed in the article above, and those submitted as comments below, are not necessarily those held by the Slashdot editors. All comments remain copyright Slashdot, 2002. Slashdot is a computer enthusiast entertainment and discussion site, and does not offer any warranty or guarantee as to the accuracy or coherence of its stories.

Charging fees for Linux certification

[RTFA Man]

just plain asinine. They don't deserve any shelter on this one. Just plain greedy, perverting the open source ideal just to put a few bucks in their pocket, and to exercise some control over something that really isn't rocket science since it's been done already.

Re:Charging fees for Linux certification

[kryoptic]

The way I see it, the certification fee is more a method of appealing to big businesses than an attempt to pocket some cash. Corporations can use any distribution of Linux they want, but most still don't use Linux at all. They want to know that the product they're getting meets certain standards. Although being certified doesn't imply any sort of superiority or higher quality than non-certified distributions, it does help.

Ransom Love???

[AussieBastard]

Sounds like a porn star name.

Re:Ransom Love???

[Anonymous Coward]

He's from Utah. Everybody's in the porn business over there.

Re:Ransom Love???

[Verizon Guy]

Ha! You couldn't be more correct!

Do you think this hurt?

[Genghis Troll]

Oops, I crashed my Ferrari!

I'm gonna say that it probably hurt like hell, but for a very short time.

Re:Do you think this hurt?

[Anonymous Coward]

Silly me, I misread it. I thought it was you who crashed and I was going to wish you a speedy (he he) recovery. But I guess these aren't pictures of you and your car; they're someone else?

Re:Do you think this hurt?

[theodoliteq]

As some one who has suffered dislocated shoulder several times, I feel very sorry for these guys. I'm afraid gentleman #2 may be deceased, but the 1st guy, I hope he can get his arm back in place( it looks really painful). This is further evidence to allow the govment to install devices into all cars to cap their speed at like 60MPH(similar capping bandwidthon cable ). If it can save a single life, it is worth it. Never again should a civilian drive faster than 60MPH.

Listen to Ransom Love, he's got a plan:

[NASAKnight]

1) become united linux certified
2) ??
3) profit

Re:Listen to Ransom Love, he's got a plan:

[terrymr]

Phase 1 .... Collect Underpants

Re:Listen to Ransom Love, he's got a plan:

[Anonymous Coward]

Geez, this old joke is becoming about as funny as the stupid "all your base" thing..

Spelling?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ransom Loves to Focus on UnitedLinux? Gee, that's toddler-level grammar.

What will undoubtedly hurt UniLinux's credibility

[Verizon Guy]

Is taking this guy seriously with a name like THAT.

We might as well have this guy lead UnitedLinux. Or this guy. An Oriental guy would be good for diversity. This guy too.

That should do for now.

Ransom Love is not on that picture.

[BlowCat]

Robert Love is. Ransom Love is not a kernel developer.

Try to stay off topic, OK?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks.

Re:What will undoubtedly hurt UniLinux's credibili

[Anonymous Coward]

Erm... that last missing link was supposed to point to Mike Rotch. Heh.

United Linux Kingdom

[Juhaa]

Have you forgotten what these people (Caldera) did to DOS? I know DOS might not be such a high priority to most people, but there are still people who care about DOS and the leverage that Caldera had on Microsoft which was obviously ironed out. Let me rehash history a bit, Caldera inhereited DOS from the Novell folks and at that point they have the right to SUE Microsoft to death (Since it was found that Microsoft had put special instructions in the Windows code to make it not run on the original IBM DOS). But, instead of getting something done right, the kind folk of Caldera accepted a nice wad of $$'s from Microsoft and shut themselves up. And what happend to DOS? They still held onto the code, they held onto it for many years till finally giving it up (We know have FreeDOS which is better than CLOSED DOS). And now this thing called United Linux. Where do you think this is heading? Everthing reeks of the same grubby $ hungry Caldera and their desire to exploit our loving Tux and milk her to the last drop. I say it's time we took back our penguin. I say it's time for civil disobedience and not spend a single cent on this United Linux effor and any company behind that effort. I say we need to take back our Linux and make it be know that's it's from the people for the people.

Re:United Linux Kingdom

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like FUBU! YESSSSS

Re:United Linux Kingdom

[bradipo]

And what have you done for Linux recently?

Re:United Linux Kingdom

[Juhaa]

Most recently,

/usr/src/linux/drivers/video/matrox/mat roxfb_accel.c

Re:United Linux Kingdom

[Anonymous Coward]

"I say we need to take back our Linux and make it be know that's it's from the people for the people. "

Nobody has run off with it. The people can eat their fill. It was pretty clear from his recent interview that UnitedLinux isn't for the people, it's a package with a bow on it for business, addressing their concerns. Which is fine. That's part of the beauty of Linux, no one can have a monopoly on it -- not Linux hippies, not business, not anyone, but everyone is free to use it, and there's a flavour for pretty much everyone. After reading his interview it was pretty clear to me that I'll never be using UnitedLinux, but that's fine, I've got more than enough other choices. Heck, I can even build it from scratch. And I have.

hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

the reason people (windows users) dont use linux is because they are used to pay hundreds of dollars for windows. they think linux is a worse product because it is free :P

(:cP)-|==

Re:hmmm

[Genghis Troll]

Well, then they've come to the right conclusion, even if not for the right reason. Is it really so important that they know WHY linux is a worse product?

The Leopard Can't Change His Spots

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Ransom Love has never really understood the concept of free software. He's stuck in the mindset of proprietary == added value and Caldera has suffered because of that. The same thing will happen to United-Linux if he has a strong controlling interest in its productization. The end result will be more of an Untied-Linux which will probably never even have as much relevance to the linux world as even Caldera was able to achieve.

Re:The Leopard Can't Change His Spots

[Anonymous Coward]

What's wrong with standards? What's wrong with charging money? You're the kind of people that turn free software into communism.

Re:The Leopard Can't Change His Spots

[max cohen]

Yup. UnitedLinux just got the kiss of death. While UL was Ransom's baby all along, his role at Caldera kinda gave off a thin impression that he would just be another figure head in the total UL organization. Now that veil has been lifted and he's the head guy at UL, I expect him to apply his usual ideas of using the proprietary software model for open source software and drive UL into a tiny niche market. Poor Ransom, he just doesn't get it, does he? I've never seen one man make the same business mistakes so many times...

Re:The Leopard Can't Change His Spots

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what message you are replying to, but the one I read didn't say anything about standards, charging money or communism.

Re:The Leopard Can't Change His Spots

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys are all idiots. Could you read the press release before you comment. Ransom Love was annemate about saying that he isn't leading UL. He is leading the UL initiative at Caldera. Therefore, he is not going to be making any of the UL decisions, only the decisions that affect Caldera. I am so sick of linux people trying to take the moral high ground, when they won't even take the time to read a press release.

Re:The Leopard Can't Change His Spots

[Anonymous Coward]

Please tell us the secrets of the Ming Mecca chip! It has four pins on it.. two presumably for power. The other two must be for data. So if one's for input and the other's output, then the chip must be massively serial. Is serial the wave of the future?

Re:The Leopard Can't Change His Spots

[Anonymous Coward]

What didn't he understand, that they should give away their work for free and go out of business?

Re:The Leopard Can't Change His Spots

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll tell you the secret of the Ming Mecca chip, for a price. You must find and retrieve the valuable and elusive egg salad recipe first.

Re:The Leopard Can't Change His Spots

[jav1231]

Again...UL is simply Caldera expanding without having to buy out anyone. I don't have a problem with there being a price on Linux. I've purchased boxed sets of RH. My problem is per seat licensing and Caldera's cold shoulder to individual users. >

Re:The Leopard Can't Change His Spots

[MindStalker]

The chip in PI I know it had only a few pins on it, but are you sure it was only 4? But I guess that would work, really depends, if the entire computer is in the chip, why not. Feed instructions in it, wait for god to come out of it.

group photo is fake

[Anonymous Coward]

Guy #56 with the weird hair is called Christoph Hellwig? Give me a break.

So?

[Anonymous Coward]

So what if it requires fees to become "UnitedLinux certified". I'm pretty sure every other certification requires money too.

Trolling 101: Building the Perfect Troll by pwpbot

[Anonymous Coward]

A while back Don Henley created an album called Building the Perfect Beast His first solo album it surprised many with tracks like Sunset Grill All She Wants To Do Is Dance my favorite Driving With Your Eyes Closed and Jon Katzs favorite Boys of Summer I was listening to this album on illegallyripped MP3s while reading the Slashdot trolls and started brainstorming what would make the perfect troll This article serves as a directed introduction to building the perfect trollFirst we need to define trolling This is harder than it sounds because everyone has their own definition of a troll or better their own definition of a good troll I am going to use multiple definitions to create a very broad ideal of the term troll Any post that meets ONE of the definitions below is considered a trolla A message widely regarded as an annoyanceb A message which insults the editors with no regard to meritc A message which flames another user for their viewsd Any message which is designed to enrage the standard slashdot userFor the purposes of this post a good troll is one that spawns many angry responses There are other sides of trolling such as crapflooding which do not generate any responses usually These sorts of trolls are out of the scope of this articleThere are 6 dimensions of a good troll annoyance arguability subtlety topicality logicality and permeance By NO means should a good troll use only one dimension although some dimensions are inherently contradictory using as many as possible will result in a good trollAnnoyanceThis is the allstar of the troll spectrum Racial comments page wideninglengthing misinformation deragatory comments etc all are considered an annoyance But be careful The common pitfall is the annoyance is used to frequently and too loudly Subtlety is a necessity if you are going to use this with any sort of success read more about this below Here are some examples of good and bad annoyancesBad You stupid fucking nigger Im going to kick your faggot ass if I ever see you you shitface cocksucking animal This will be modded down immediately and will probably not be responded to This message will largely be ignored thus limiting the troll affectPosting factual inaccuracies is great when combined with annoyance the Slashdots will fall over themselves correcting your every moveGood Its posts like these that question the education system of America If you were paying any attention at school you would know that the South won the Civil War because of their views no slavery It was Abraham Lincolns last stand at Gettysburg that caused Slavery to go awayMaking references to your education as proof that you are right is excellent especially when in your troll you make it obvious that you dont have anyBad I studied this topic in great depth when writing my PhD thesis at MIT As it turns out the limiting factor of sorting function with completely randomized data Good Oh I took a class about this at the DeVry Institute According to the reseptionist notice intentionally bad spelling the integral of ex2 is ex so its got to be rightArguabilityPosts such as You fucking faggot Im going to kill you has no element of arguability You want to post a view in an inflammatory way that will incite a great argument There is a right way and a wrong way to doing this Usually if you are outright cursing at the poster or editor its the wrong wayExamplesBad You worthless piece of horseshit Your views are wrong jackassGood This study post link to mostly irrelevant and offtopic study indicates there is a strong correlation between deviance and Linux usersDrawing illogical conclusions based on incorrect statements is a great way to instate a nerd riot ExampleGood When ESR said that Windows is losing clientelle he used intentionally bad grammar which is inherent proof that his ideals are flawedPermeanceQuestion If a troll posts a troll and no one reads it is it still a troll Answer NoA troll can only have so much longevity I call this principle permeance Permeance is judged by the number of people who will see and read a post and to a lesser extent respond to it Good formatting grammar and spelling all contribute to a posts permeance but the real factor is contentMost of you spend a lot of time reading at 1 presumably so you will know that a fair amount of racist and antisemetic comments are posted Most Slashdot users will not see these because they are at 1 klercks PLP and PWP are ultimately a failure because few see themTo maximize permeance you have to 1 Sound like you now what you are talking about 2 Sound like you have a stake in your point of view maening you care about what you think and 3 Express it without homophobia any sort of racism and discrimination You will see that trolls at 1 and even 2 use this principle You will see that trolls at 0 and 1 do not use this principle This brings us toFirst Fundamental Theorem of Trolling Anonymous Cowards by definition rarely succeed in posting a good trollSecond Fundamental Theorem of Trolling If an AC succeeds in a good troll it would even be better if it were posted at 1 or 2 by default SubtletyCertain posts SCREAM This is a troll Please ignore it These are not successful trolls As a troll your every urge is to scream YOU FUCKING FAGGOT HOW CAN YOU THINK THE WAY YOU DO to the Slashbot homos Resist this at every cost You need to diplomatically insult them Its hard I know but it will result in success GOOD PHRASESYou should know by now that Havent you learned anything from eventWhat a stereotypical viewWas this post sarcasticI cant believe the level of ignorance of that point of viewTopicalityThis is a nobrainer and therefore Im not going to spend much time discussing it Why do you think BSD is Dying trolls rarely get responses when they are posted under one of Jon Katzs articlesLogicalityDid I make that word up Probably But its principle is still important use every logical fallacy that you know of when writing trolls Jump to illogical conclusions Misquote or misrepresent parents posts when responding Make references to studies linking them to a 404 not found page You get the idea This one isnt hard to introduce but its wildly successful in getting Slashcock responsesThis is a brief introduction to the good trolling Soon I will post an article about combining dimensions and look at some good and bad trolls in the past

-pwpbot

greed and the death of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Greed will be the death of Linux, if it hasn't already. Not only is Linux's ongoing search for a stable VM system a waste of human lives in today's environment where FreeBSD is freely available without the GPL virus, but everyone trying to divide up the Linux pie has lead to fragmentation and selfish self-promotion. It's high time this sad chapter in Computer Science history came to an end. Just say no to Linux.

A few corrections

[einhverfr]

Caldera bought DR DOS from Novell, sued Microsoft, settled out of court, and promptly sold it to Lineo. It is still, BTW, closed source, though Lineo is using it to expand its roles in the legacy and embedded device areas.

The basic problem here is that Love has made Microsoft-inspired statements about the GPL, helped his company get a large chunk of their capital from suing Microsoft, buying worst-of-breed products (like SCO), etc. Is he really the person you want to have head the United Linux effort?

I personally think that United Linux will flop, and may take down Turbolinux, SuSE, and Conectiva as well. I would include Caldera as well, but that company has already lived up to its namesake ;)

Re:A few corrections

[Juhaa]

Corrections?

Never said Caldera opened source, I said they let it go (as give it up to Lineo). =- Beef with Caldera =-

FreeDOS is not by Caldera. And you should try it. It's pretty good. I've been using it on bosch and dosemu.

Yes, and here is some 'porn'

[Anonymous Coward]

* * *
Day In The Life Of The Average Slashdot Reader
* * *

I've always been rather fastidious about cleanliness; I guess that's why I washed the bitch's cunt opening. I mean fucking a female Doberman was one thing, but fucking her all dirty and grungy was quite another.

I poured warm soapy water over my young bitch's body and scrubbed her fine chocolate colored fur, making sure to massage the soapy water into her sexual areas. She seemed to like it when I rubbed the soapy cloth across her bitch-hole; she'd shiver and whined for me each time I made contact.

We were both naked and wet as I began to dry her. My stiff teenage dick was rubbing against her damp fur and I was getting so aroused that there was no way I was going to back out of it now.

The thought of screwing my Doberman bitch came to me when I read some of those porno stories at asstr.org. They were about woman screwing their dogs. All kinds of situations were described, and I soon realized that those types of stories made me so horny that I'd blow my wad before finishing even a short story.

My folks had bought this Dobby about six months ago and she was a sweet pup. Clean athletic lines and bright intelligent eyes. And when she went into heat last week and I watched the neighbor's dog fuck her in our back yard, well... the thought blazed through my mind like a
falling star, 'Why couldn't I use her to get myself off.'

I'll admit that I'm no stud-muffin. At 15 I was still skinny as a rail and had that computer-geek whitefish complexion that you get from sitting in front of your computer all day playing video games and working on programs.

Needless to say I was still a virgin. But I wanted to lay a girl in the worst way. It was just that I was too shy to put myself in a position to get one to do anything with me.

I dreamt about fucking girls all the time, just about any girl I met, or saw, I'd fantasize about. Even my buddies mothers and older AND younger sisters weren't exempt. It didn't really matter if they were attractive or not, all I wanted was to sink my dick into a hot wet cunt and bang away until I came.

That's why I was in my back yard on my hands and knees, naked and washing the family pup. My folks were gone for the entire day visiting old college friends who lived up the peninsula in San Francisco and I had the place to myself.

I intended to lose my virginity to our female Doberman that very afternoon. And as I rubbed vigorously, drying her fur I began to finger her with my free hand. When my finger first touched her slit she jumped in surprise and growled at me.

But soon she settled down and let me stick my finger into her to the first knuckle. Then in an effort to see what she could accommodate I pushed another finger in and began fucking her with two fingers. She felt so slick and warm inside, I could just imagine how it would feel to sink my dick into her.

Hell, I'd been imagining that feeling for years, and it was time to do it. I was going to fuck our female Doberman -- it was now or never.

She stood in the afternoon sun smelling of shampoo, and I could feel the light breeze as if it were a caress against my fevered dick. It ruffled through my pubic hair as I climbed over the bitches back and positioned myself at her slick opening.

It took quit an effort to make any headway. I remember trying to stick myself into her cunt and nothing was happening. I kept missing or sliding off to one side or another. But finally I felt a wonderful hot slickness encircle the head of my dick and I instinctively knew that I'd hit pay dirt.

I kept wiggling my dick around with my hand and making shallow thrusts and was finally rewarded with the feeling of a tight moist, hot enclosure gripping my dick and I sank further into my female pup.

The dog was looking over her shoulder at me with a strange expression in her eyes and her teeth bared. I wasn't sure what to make of it, but at that moment I didn't really care if my dog through I was a crazy pervert. She felt so good wrapped tightly around my dick that all I wanted to do was make fucking motions, to sink balls-deep into her and then fuck her until I came.

And that's exactly what I did. I finally penetrated the bitch so that I felt her tight cunt muscles stretched all the length of my dick. I remember thinking to myself what a wonderful feeling it was, so liberating to have my dick planted into a warm wet cunt instead of the five-fingered fuck that I'd had to be satisfied with all my life up until that moment.

I began to fuck my Doberman bitch in earnest. I loved the feeling of her inner cunt walls of wet warm velvet grasping at my prick as I pumped in and out of her. She stood there patiently letting me use her body and I grunted and groaned over her back in ecstatic pleasure.

Then I was coming -- and I literally howled as I experienced the most intense orgasm of my life. I emptied my balls into our family pet, gasping for breath, shoving in as deep as I could go.

When my gushes of pleasure were spent I gingerly pulled out of the Dobby and watched as my come spilled out with my departure. I knelt there on my knees looking at the sleek young Dobby as she moved away from me and lay down on the carpeted patio and began to clean herself, licking my come from between her legs.

I knelt there watching her, my boner still hard, our mingled goo feeling wet and cool from the light breeze still rusting the leaves.

Rustling the leaves? What? Who was there?

I looked over my shoulder to see the Bruce, neighbor boy watching me. I saw that his eyes were wide and they were glued to my hard shinny dick.

Damn, I was caught, and we went to the same school too.

Epilogue:

As it turned out my neighbor Bruce was a pretty good friend and one thing led to another and we ended up experimenting with a lot of things together that summer.

He turned out to be as shy as me around girls even though he had dark good looks, and we did a lot of things with each other that answered many questions that we'd never had the nerve to asked. I even ended up sharing our Dobby with him...

THE END

Ransom Love to focus on UnitedLinux

[HappyUser]

Well, by charging, corporate america will be able to think with it. Besides it might become able to fund the partners to continue creating distributions we've grown so fond of.

It seems few here have any experience with keeping a company afloat. It's always complain, complain when these guys try to get paid for all the work they put into this. It would be one thing if they were making money head over heals like MS.

They have all been running at a loss with their linux distributions. Do you want to pay for them to continue?

I for one am willing to pay for what I get. Fair exchange, don't you think?!

So unless you can put up the money, and time it takes, and make it go right to bring out a great distribution, shut up!

Re:Ransom Love to focus on UnitedLinux

[Anonymous Coward]

So unless you can put up the money, and time it takes, and make it go right to bring out a great distribution, shut up!

Um, people who put up money, time and make it go right have other venues of comminaction than geek blogs. Try Wall Street Journal if you don't want and opinion from every anarchist and athiest with an opinion and a keyboard.

Commercial does *not* mean closed

[frascone]

Personally, I don't mind that United Linux is trying to make a profit. I also wouldn't mind paying for it, if it was worth it.

Having something be commercial is *not* the same as being closed (propriatary). If they try to charge money for something that sucks, no one will pay for it.

I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, and I'm a huge open source fan. But, people do still need to make money. And, I would rather see closed source software on an open platform, than closed source on a closed platform.

Just my $.02 worth, anyway.

Re:Commercial does *not* mean closed

[Arandir]

Having something be commercial is *not* the same as being closed (propriatary).

I hate to point out the obvious, but if a company tries to charge money for something that you can download for free they're not going to make much money. Most distros are going about it all wrong. Free Software == commodity software, which means you had better find something else to sell if you want to stay around for any appreciable amount of time.

p.s. Distros that have managed to make a few quid here and there are selling stuff other than just the shrink wrapped free download.

Re:Commercial does *not* mean closed

[anshil]

I think you're completly right.

Which distros really have made any money? Which, just one? Redhat? Is nearly going toward the black zero, and most of they money they make are because of other services, not for the linux distro.

Come on as soon you make a distro people demand to freely download, do you know what that means for costs for a server, they want free this and free that, they copy their distros etc.

The problems are that the linux users AND develeopers are not business friendly. Honestly think about it, joe average linux user is a fuckwit. Isn't it? Just read slashdot for a half a year to get an idea, all this extremists posts somedays make me embarassed to be a linux user.

(This post is written of 100% free software)

Re:Commercial does *not* mean closed

[MindStalker]

This post written with %50 free software, %50 closed software, and wrapped in a bundle of x86 brand hardware. (Mozilla in Windows)

Hmmm....

[__aadhrk6380]

LinuxSoft? MicroLinux? Either way, at least someone is taking the first step. To really be competitive means making money, and making money means charging for the product.

Redhat charges for Advanced Server (targeting the Enterprise), but allows server and desktop for free. If I understand correctly, United will charge for "Server" and up, but the desktop will be free. Sort of like "If you build it, they will come" for the desktop piece.

What is troubling (to me) is that, in the end, the precedents here are well documented. We all remember the "free" for life" services when the internet was in first bloom. Free E-mail, web hosting, etc. Those are gone. They won't be back, either. Because they didn't make money.

The "give" here (by United) is on the GPL and releasing source code to developers. That keeps the platform "open", while still managing to charge for the product.

Is Linux on the desktop "ready for Prime Time"? No, probably not. It isn't mindless enough. Certifications? Let's hammer away at that like MS and get 500,000 + folks certified (how many MCSE's are there?). Looks good to IS departments, anyway.

My point? The Linux community will have to answer United's push, and the answer will be an MS-like Linux based counterpoint to Windows. Things are fixing to change.

Re:Hmmm....

[patbob]

Is Linux on the desktop "ready for Prime Time"? No, probably not. It isn't mindless enough.

I don't know if I'd choose that wording ("useable" is the one I'd use), but yes, it does need to be made easy enough for the non-hacker masses to pick up and use. Charging money is the fastest way to get there because as soon as United needs to make a buck quarter to quarter, they will have to pursue other markets than Linux zealots. Perhaps we don't like to think about it, but we are way outnumbered by the non-hacker computer users, and there is no way Linux can ever replace Microsoft without appealing to them.

My recommendation (not that anyone asked :-), is to centralize access to all the umpteen different ways to muck with the configuration. RedHat 7.3 a la KDE has a pretty good start on this (I wonder why..), but there is still configuration that cannot be gotten to from the menus. The configuration doesn't need to be dumbed down at first, just findable.

OSF all over again?

[dcavanaugh]

As I see a few bits & pieces of the UL puzzle, I can't help but think of OSF. The Unix community was supposed to be united at last, as the software giants combined forces to create the one, truly standard OS. Focused more on fees than creativity... we all know how the story ends.

The more I read about UL, the less I like it. I seriously doubt that the people who developed most of Linux were expecting to be used as free labor in a conventional retail software product.

Ugly truths

[Anonymous Coward]

UL is such a lame idea it doesn't matter if RL runs it or not.

RL being replaced as CEO of Caldera won't make any difference. They'll still be clueless, they'll continue to trail RH in marketshare by a bunch, they'll still fail to make the services model work, and they'll still lose boatloads of cash every quarter.

Re:What will undoubtedly hurt UniLinux's credibili

[Anonymous Coward]

I think everyone has missed the point here. The main story isn't that he's now heading up UL, but that Ransom Love is no longer President/CEO!


That story is HUGE. There has been enough mismanagement and misdirection in Caldera and it's finaly time for a change. While targeted by the OpenSource community for quite some time and for several (many times) unfounded reasons, Caldera has typicaly done nothing different than most other comertial Linux companies. However, they have consistantly played their hand in the wrong light. Their own announcements have come from a point of view that ticks off the OS community. ei. Suse and RH have both shipped proprietary software with their Linux distros but Caldera does it and they get the bullet. Go figure.

It always seemed that Caldera never thought of how they should say things as much as what was said and consistanly fucused (caldera internal joke...) on the wrong points.

BAH

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't like the idea of UnitedLinux at ALL. The idea of all the distros under one "lead" specially a lead like the former CEO of caldera.....not good.

Ransom Love Will Destroy this.

[peterdaly]

Ransom Love will destroy any hope UnitedLinux had. I hope he does not take SUSE down with him. He has never from day one understood anything about how to run an open source related company. Just look how popular Calera is with "Open"Linux (quotes are intentional.) They have boughten SCO, which is a horrible OS with a mainframe like following, and is slowly destroying that too. They had some cool technology years ago, like Linux NDS which was never widly used because nobody wanted to "tie themselves" to Caldera. He seems intent on creating vendor lockin, which is exactly what his market wants so badly to avoid.

Love seems to shoot himself in the foot each time he opens his mouth. People are complaining about the slashdot interview. That was one of the best interview he ever gave...go search for more, you'll see. This guy does not belong in the Linux business, he just doesn't understand it. What's even worse is he thinks he does.

This move of his saddens me. It also makes me want to go out and purchase some RedHat stock. All of RedHat's serious competition is about to die. I hope SUSE can maintain itself, and not sellout to Love's screwball mindset. I thought they knew better.

-Pete

Re:Ransom Love Will Destroy this.

[gad_zuki!]

Yeah, like I'm going to listen to a guy with a fucking ad for a .sig call Ransom a sellout.

Re:Ransom Love Will Destroy this.

[Tim Colgate]

They have boughten SCO, which is a horrible OS with a mainframe like following, and is slowly destroying that too.

It's horrible and they're destroying it? So what's your problem?

All the highly moderated comments so far have been very critical of Ransom Love. The parent post here makes a lot very critical statements, but with no facts to back them up. I know Caldera as a distribution has never been particularly popular amongst geeks, and that Mr Love's views don't exactly coincide with the majority of the Slashdot readership, but whatever happened to "a rising tide lifts all boats"?

When Sun introduced payment for Star Office, reaction on Slashdot was fairly muted. People could see it still represents good value compared with MS Office, Open Office is still available for free (and Free), and businesses are happier because they can understand the revenue model and have faith that with Sun making money on it, it will have a future.

Many of us have to use Windows at work and would love to use Linux instead. Many corporations will be happier to use Linux if they think it has a viable (read profitable) future. If Caldera and OpenLinux want to charge per-seat licensing then great! With the money, they can pay people to do some of the more tedious jobs that need doing. They could update all the HOWTOs, some of which are years out of date. They could pay driver manufactures to release drivers. They could sponsor people on gcc to work specifically on pre-compiled headers, faster load times for C++ programs etc.

And guess what? If you don't want to pay for Linux, you still don't have to! So cut Caldera some slack, they just have a different business model from IBM, and go do something useful.

Re: SCO and Mickeysoft

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

On the Microsoft thing, you have to remember Microsoft created XENIX, mostly by farming it out to SCO to do the port. XENIX eventually became what is now OpenServer 5, which was SCO's mainline (and only UNIX) for many years. Kind of hard to hate MS when they formed the core of their business for decades. MS also owns some amount of the old SCO, dunno how that played out with the Caldera purchase. A lot of XENIX => OpenServer code had MS copyrights, and MS got a cut of every OS5 sale until 1997 I read...

Ransom's Contributions

[peterdaly]

This is the same guy who is angered by the question about what Caldera does not give back to the Open Source community in the recent slashdot interview. He tells of how much "merketing" caldera has given to Linux, and how we should be greatful.

That shows how much he understands the Open Source world. I remember when Caldera was considered a "bigger" more reliable Linux distribution than RedHat back in the kernel 1.2 days. Look at the two of them now, and the business/respect they have. If he thinks "marketing" his own product is enough giving back to the open source community, he deserves to fail. Calera should have died a long time ago. He bites the hand that feeds him...we have bitten back. I am afraid he will stunt (if not completely destroy) UnitedLinux's growth like he did Caldera.

-Pete

Re:Ransom's Contributions

[Anonymous Coward]

"Yeah, like I'm going to listen to a guy with a fucking ad for a .sig call Ransom a sellout."

Re:Ransom's Contributions

[Anonymous Coward]

ROFL! -- I was going to post the exact same thing.

Re:Ransom's Contributions

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh stupid ./ people and geeks, all you can do is beeing angered and to bite, I can understand people who say they want the hell stay out of linux business as soon you enter it you've to pester yourself with never-be-satisfied people like you. Hell what does you make happy?

Why do you want Caldera to die? Oh stop talking shit. You're doing the linux community not good. And even if someone wants to make a commercial, does this hurt you? huh? No, so stop bickering.

Re:Ransom's Contributions

[Afty0r]

If he thinks "marketing" his own product is enough giving back to the open source community, he deserves to fail.

While I have read the GPL, and understand the FSF 'philosophy' I also believe it is somewhat like the bible. Full of good intentions, but unable to put across the full picture.

While I agree that 'just marketing' is not putting back into the free software community in the spirit of the GPL that marketing may attract thousands, or even millions (if done well) of new Linux users.

Each one of those Linux users will become a part of the community, and maybe one in a hundred or so will become an active and contributing hacker on some project - bringing much more mindshare to the Linux meme.

*This* is incredibly important as the proprietary software vendors seek more and more to shut open source software completeley out of the marketplace using laws and other unfair methods - I know that Ransom Loves main reason for conducting marketing was to make a profit, but please do not underestimate how important it is to gain mindshare in the current climate, and only effective marketing can do that with any degree of success. Without it, Linux will die a death within a very few years because the current user base is too politically apathetic and too small to prevent legal and commercial pressures from halting Open Source production and distribution.

Re:Ransom's Contributions

[bogado]

But he is not doing marketing for linux, he is marketing his product. This is not giving to the comunity, is giving to him self. When he is say that he is doing marketing for linux, what he is saying is "Be happy I'm here you little fools". All the distros, and even some companies that don't even have distos (like IBM) that work with linux market linux. After all is their business. That don't stop them to contribute.

In my opinion this is BS.

Franklin Covey?

[Anonymous Coward]

That just gets me that a technology company hired one of the head guys at Franklin Covey... I think I'll just jot that down in my leather bound date planner.

If the goatse man had a face...

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be this:
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/ne/pre/Ent/200 0/03/03 21RansomLove.jpg

I could just see that nasty grin on his face.

Is it just me?

[farrellj]

Or does anyone else think the blue part of the Caldera logo looks like the left ear and part of the head of Mickey Mouse?!?!?!

ttyl
Farrell

Re:Is it just me?

[Afrosheen]

Dude, everytime I see that logo it freaks me out. It looks like a balloon with Mickey's logo on it, half-rotated away from the viewer. Creepy.

If it wasn't for Caldera's superdope icon sets I wouldn't even care who they were or who ran them. Wait, I don't. I like the crystal icon sets though.

Re:Is it just me?

[anshil]

Or does anyone else think the blue part of the Caldera logo looks like the left ear and part of the head of Mickey Mouse?!?!?!

Of course it does, but don't tell DISNEY!!! If they find out they gonna sue Caldera into nothingness.

Slashdot exists for my amusement.

[rice_burners_suck]

Here's what I think. I think a company needs to be started (let's call it Microsoft for our purposes), and that company will take all the GPLd software, package it, and license it under a commercial license so strict that you're not even allowed to remove the CD from the shrink-wrapping, let alone try to execute any of the information on it.

well, er

[xant]

I don't know about huge. CEO of bit player in the corporate Linux world steps down. Nobody cares about Caldera.. a few people (most of Redhat's competition) care about UL. You seem to be saying that he'll do less damage this way, but I think he has the potential to do more damage.

Re:well, er

[Anonymous Coward]

Ransom's role as explained in the press releases is that he will lead the Caldera UL effort which is just a portion of UL. Caldera has a portion of control of UL. Everyone on Slashdot seems to think that Caldera is leading UL which is NOT true. The huge difference I was refering to (and should have been more explicit) was the difference that would happen within Caldera, not the Linux world or even UL.

Caldera does NOT = UL just as RH does NOT = Linux

I hope he doesn't hold Linux for Ransom

[Anonymous Coward]

with this United Linux initiative if you know what I mean. GPL'd code must be free!

He sure will

[dcavanaugh]

With any luck, the demise of UL will take RL with it. Unfortunately, the M$ hype machine will be screaming at full blast to announce the death of Linux, when it's really just UL being flushed down the toilet.

Regarding SUSE, I'm not so sure any of the Linux parters in UL can survive this expensive mistake. These companies simply don't have the financial reserves to go out and take foolish risks like this. Of all the potential UL casualties, SUSE is the only one that I will miss.

Ransom Love should focus on the TR�LL�NP�LK�!

[Anal Cocks]

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____________________

Change Log:

• Subtle changes to most verses. It sounded really gay before.
• Removed all references to Tacos pud. May have been high at time. Will investigate further.
• Finally think I have
• goat sex written correctly in German. I think. Arschficken?

© 2002 Serial Troller. Permission to reproduce this document is granted provided that you send all the bukkake porn you can find to serialtroller@hotmail.com.

Hey! Fuk Yu!

[Anonymous Coward]

How are you man? Long time no see!

The only reason this guy gets any coverage at all

[Mordant]

is the same reason that no-talent moron River Phoenix got any parts in films - because of his 'dorky-cool' name.

That's it. There's no other logical explanation.

I mean, I've never met anybody who's even claimed to -know- anybody who's ever run Caldera Linux, or even seen it running on some computer somewhere, you know?

So, let's do ourselves a favor and just forget about this dimwit and his oh-so-pretentious moniker so and go back to more relevant stuff like
whether or not Ozzie's wife is going to defecate in his bag of pot or whatever, OK?

fees

[__aahlyu4518]

"specifically that fees would be required to become "UnitedLinux" certified"

Yeah... it almost looks like a business... ehm... oops ... IT IS A BUSINESS

Free as in beer

[RatFink100]

So in the end Linux in your opinion should be about Free as in beer?

Open Source Ideal?

[RatFink100]

It remains to be seen whether UL will be a good thing or not. But I thought the whole point of Open Source was to allow you more freedom (as in speech) over the code you run. Since when is charging money going against this ideal? Even RMS says it's ok to charge for Free Software.

Say UL is successful and lots of businesses adopt it. They still won't have the kind of control over the users that Microsoft does - because they can always take the source and go elsewhere if they don't like the direction UL is going.

Certification is about giving businesses the comfort factor that applications will work out of the box on their linux systems. Certification means testing - which means time and manpower - which costs money. Charging for it seems to make sense to me. And you're only getting charged if you want to be part of the UL distro club (as far as I can see anyway).

Re:The only reason this guy gets any coverage at a

[Te1waz]

Well, he seems to be trying to hold Linux at 'Ransom'

Wake Up People

[deKernel]

I am so sick and tired of people ragging on Ransom and Caldera. I have been using Caldera for years now, and I feel that it is the most stable of all distros out there. (I can say this because every once in a while, I install other distros just to see what is going on in other people worlds).

Now lets go after peoples bitches about Ransom and how he "bitches" about the "freeloaders" in the Linux community. First off, I have read all of his interviews that I can find. I have never seen that quote. Usually that is people saying that he said that. Second, everything that Caldera does for Linux OS is done under the GPL so all can get to the source. To me, he is giving more back to the community than most people who are just running Linux (I put myself in that boat!) Please notice that I put Linux OS because they do write apps like Volution for money. Yes, I said the dirty thing when it comes to Linux, making money. Business's as a rule need to make money to stay in business. I realize that most people in the community don't seem to have a clue about running a business, but let me make it clear as I can. The above is the first and cardinal rule: You need to make money to stay in business.

Oh, buy the way, there are not to many businesses staying afloat on service contracts alone. Look at RedHat as an example.

The moral of my story would appear to be: If you don't like Caldera or the UnitedLinux thing, don't use it. Plan and simple.

Sounds good to me

[nurb432]

At least the nut isnt in control of Caldera anylonger.

Let him go out and do stuff on his own.

I dont see a problem with it.

Re:What will undoubtedly hurt UniLinux's credibili

[BrokenHalo]

Maybe we'd have to be certified to take him seriously :-P

Commercial is Good, but UL is Definitely Not Good

[FreeUser]

I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, and I'm a huge open source fan. But, people do still need to make money. And, I would rather see closed source software on an open platform, than closed source on a closed platform.

I agree, and while my experiences with Blender have led me to conclude that proprietary software coupled with proprietary formats is a no-win situation on any platform, open or closed, there is a place for commercial software in the Free World.

The problem with United Linux is that they are promoting a very erroneous and IMHO destrictuve meme: that (a) a single commercial entity imposing a defacto embrace-and-extended standard is better than a community consensus and (b) that commercial products are better off targeting one imposed distribution and counting on compatability with others (in contrast to packaging their binaries in a distribution-neutral manner, the way VMWare does, Blender and Loki did, etc.).

Point (b) is particularly problematic (and my sole signficant gripe with Red Hat, who I otherwise like as a company, as they have promoted that harmful meme to some degree as well), and why I will actually be cheering the demise of United Linux (to put it bluntly).

Their strategy is to encourage vendors to package stuff for their distro, arguing that they are the standard to which all other distros (e.g. Gentoo, Source Mage, Slackware, Debian, etc.) must become compatible, then use that in)compatabilties to coerce those who would like to use said commercial products into purchasing their distro.

In short, they are about coercion and removing choice from the community, and as I said in another thread, the losers will ultimately be the commercial vendors, whose products would simply be disregarded regardless of merit because of their incompatability with the installed distribution (which in our case we prefer for a number of reasons, the details of which aren't important here). The vendors will likely then think, erroneously, that they failed due to a lack of GNU/Linux interest, when in fact they failed because they targeted a coercive distribution that the majority of the community rejected, and thus closed themselves out of the very market they were trying to address.

The entire notion of United Linux is based upon at least two false pretenses: (1) that it is somehow impossible for vendors to package binaries in a distribution-neutral manner, despite numerous examples to the contrary and (2) that the GNU/Linux community will accept a compatability standard imposed upon us by either a unilateral or multilateral corporate interest instead of community consensus.

They are sorely mistaken on both of these points, and their arrogance will likely prevent them from seeing that until it is far too late.