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New Red Hat Beta: LIMBO
joyoflinux writes: "Red Hat has released a beta version of its distribution, called LIMBO. It includes the latest desktop technology, gcc 3.1, Mozilla 1.0+, OpenOffice 1.0, and much more. You can download it here or use a mirror. Submit bugs here." Here's the announcement.
It's got Gnome 2, KDE 3.01, GCC 3.1. Pretty good deal...
:)
But I will stay with Gentoo Linux.
New gcc version means this is most definitely destined to be Red Hat 8.0.
They will probably change glibc versions in a major way also.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Code naming software has really annoyed me. Jaguar for OsX. Longhorn for Windows. Palladium for the upcoming hardware software venture. AMD Corvette (before it was renamed). Does this kind of naming have any point or relevancy? What does naming an upcoming code base LIMBO mean?
We had to destroy the sig to save the sig.
Redhat has consistantly produced releases about every 6 months for as long as I have been folowing them. If it takes a month for LIMBO to clear through beta then it will be just about on schedule.
Unfortunatly, RH needs to wait for another broken version of GCC to come out, to base 8.0 on... so don't hold your breath
The mirrors link in the writeup is all the mirrors, I checked and most of them havn't updated yet.
/ limbo/ (http and also rsync access)s /redhat/redhat/linux/beta/limbo// linux/beta/limbo/l imbo/i nux/beta/limbo/ (also rsync access)l inux/beta/limbo/ Europe:h at/linux/beta/limbo/m bo/l imbo/u x/beta/limbo/i nux/beta/limbo/ (http and also rsync access)r edhat/linux/beta/limbo/ (also rsync access)i mbo/
These mirrors are from the announcement link, so they all have the beta:
- ftp://redhat.dulug.duke.edu/pub/redhat/linux/beta
- ftp://carroll.aset.psu.edu/pub/linux/distribution
- ftp://ftp.cse.buffalo.edu/pub/Linux/redhat/redhat
- ftp://mirror.hiwaay.net/redhat/redhat/linux/beta/
- ftp://limestone.uoregon.edu/redhat/beta/limbo/
- ftp://ftp.shuttleamerica.com/pub/mirrors/redhat/l
- ftp://mirror.cs.princeton.edu/pub/mirrors/redhat/
- ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/redhat-ftp/red
- ftp://ftp.linux.cz/pub/linux/redhat/linux/beta/li
- ftp://alviss.et.tudelft.nl/pub/redhat/linux/beta/
- ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/site/ftp.redhat.com/redhat/lin
- ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/pub/linux/redhat.com/dist/l
- ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/MIRRORS/ftp.redhat.com/
- ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/redhat/linux/beta/l
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
From what I understand, Limbo (or whatever the whacked-out name crap means) is the 8.0 Beta.
What I usually do is of the following (depending on what OS):
If it's MS Windows, I wait about 6 months till most of the bugs are worked out. XP has been a show-stopper to me. I wont install that piece of Spyware-ridden crap.
If it's Linux distro XYZ, I usually wait for about 1.5 to 2 months till I touch the new distro. If there's bugs, it'll be usually worked out in that time. Course, if something currently works, I'm gonna leave it alone.
Should I forge ahead, and head into beta-land?
... do you want something you can count on? Or ... would you rather play with the latest and greatest toys.
... I have been running Debian woody (the current "testing" distro) for WELL over a year. I haven't had significant stability problems with it yet.
One question
It's been my experience that Linux apps (not to mention the kernel itself) tend to be stabler in bets than Windoze apps at approximately release level 4.0.
Going to beta-land is a decision you can only make for yourself, but
utter rubbish
I imagine some of them are SRPMs or something but they aren't labeled as such. They have open office and a bunch of stuff on there though, maybe not. I am afraid that if I don't d/l and burn all five I'm going to get half way through an install and need disc 5 for some silly package. The last time I installed 7.3 on a server I needed all three, the install size was only 400 MB too.
Why can't Red Hat build thier disc images with Disc 1 being the base, disc 2 being X and Gnome, 3 being Open Office, etc. I can't imagine any benefit to spreading things out so much.
If you want to know what package versions various distros and betas are using go to distrowatch.com. A list of packages for the top 10 distros can be found here
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
Yup, there's a nice little app called "up2date" which you should take a look at. This allows you to get the latest rpms from the Red Hat Network. It's pretty good actually.
That means yes but you can read all about it here.
For those people who are moaning about 5 disks, all you really need is the net install disk image, which conveniently fits on a 1.44 floppy. Then you can spend 4 hours downloading the beast, 3 hours configuring, 2 hours cursing, then reboot and continue playing MoH:AA on the other system which we wont mention ;-)
Revolution = Evolution
Debian has already started using a DVD installer in addition to the more traditional CD installers.
Most Debian users hardly ever use DVD or CD installations... as they somehow get Debian installed once, and after that, Debian's robust package management system makes updating the OS fully automatic.
Anonymous because karma is meaningless, but changelogs are not. This took a lot of hand editing to get past the lameness filter, thanks Malda and thanks crapflooders.
/usr/lib/rpm/RPM-GPG-KEY
/proc filesystem to report numbers as if using the default HZ=100, but it is possible that issues could arise -- please test and report bugs, as always. Adaptec's latest hardware that supports the new Ultra 320 SCSI standard is now supported. It is a new driver, so if you have the hardware, test and report any issues that you encounter.
u mp/index.html
u mp/index.html
The Netscape Web browser has been removed.
The RPM Package Manager (RPM) verifies digital signatures when reading packages during installation. In order to verify signatures for packages after installation, the package's public key must be imported into the rpm database. For example, to import the Red Hat public key, type the following as root at a shell prompt:
rpm --import
After importing the public key, you can verify package digest and signature information using the following command:
rpm --checksig package_name
RPM will also suggest package(s) that will satisfy unresolved dependencies if the rpmdb-redhat package is installed. For example, if you are attempting to upgrade the gnumeric without a necessary library, you will see the following message:
rpm -Uvh gnumeric-1.0.5-5.i386.rpm
error: Failed dependencies:
libbonobo-print.so.2 is needed by
gnumeric-1.0.5-5
libbonobo.so.2 is needed by
gnumeric-1.0.5-5
libbonobox.so.2 is needed by gnumeric-1.0.5-5
Suggested resolutions:
bonobo-1.0.20-3.i386.rpm
The above mechanism is equivalent to (and will replace) the existing --redhatprovides mechanism.
GNU Ghostscript has been upgraded to version 7.05.
By default, top and ps only display the main (initial) thread of thread-aware processes. To show all threads, use the command ps -m or type [H] in top.
The junkbuster proxy filter package has been replaced by the privoxy package which can now filter animations, pop-ups, refresh tags, and webbugs. Privoxy is configurable at run-time by pointing your browser to http://p.p and choosing options from the menu.
Red Hat Linux 7.3.92 contains the following new configuration and system tools:
Red Hat Log Viewer (redhat-logviewer)
Red Hat NFS Configuration Tool (redhat-config-nfs)
Red Hat Samba Configuration Tool (redhat-config-samba)
Red Hat X Configuration Tool (redhat-config-xfree86)
Red Hat Sound Card Configuration Tool (redhat-config-soundcard)
Red Hat Language Selection Tool (redhat-config-language)
Red Hat Keyboard Configuration Tool (redhat-config-keyboard)
Red Hat Mouse Configuration Tool (redhat-config-mouse)
Red Hat Root Password Tool (redhat-config-rootpassword)
Red Hat Security Level Configuration Tool (redhat-config-securitylevel)
Package Reorganization
The following packages have been replaced.
ucd-snmp - replaced by net-snmp
gtop - replaced by gnome-system-monitor
gphoto - replaced by gphoto2
console-tools - replaced by kbd
junkbuster - replaced by privoxy
The following packages are currently not included but will be in a future version.
gnomemeeting openh323 pwlib rpm2html rpmfind
The following packages have been removed from this release of Red Hat Linux.
alien blt dip fvwm2 ee elm extace gnomeicu gnome-pim gnorpm ical jikes kaffe metamailmi cq netscape playmidi rxvt sliplogin taper xbill xdaliclock xlockmore xmailbox xpilot
The following packages have been deprecated and will be removed in a future release of Red Hat Linux.
LPRng
Kernel Notes
The kernel used in this release supports the following list of improvements and new features. The kernel is based on the 2.4.19- pre10-ac2 release for this beta.
HZ=1000 on i686 and Athlon means that the system clock ticks 10 times as fast as on other x86 platforms (i386 and i586); HZ=100 has been the Linux default on x86 platforms for the entire history of the Linux kernel. This change provides better interactive response, lower latency response from some programs, and better response from the scheduler. We have adjusted the
The latest aacraid driver now has 64-bit support, and so should have much higher performance on systems with more than 4GB of memory when you use the "bigmem" kernel.
The network console and crash dump functionality from Red Hat Linux Advanced Server 2.1 has been ported to this release. Documentation for setting this up is included in the netdump and netdump-server packages and is also available as a whitepaper at the following URL:
http://www.redhat.com/support/wpapers/redhat/netd
This beta contains a kernel providing EA and ACL support for the ext3 for setting this up is included in the netdump and netdump-server packages and is also available as aw whitepaper at the following URL:
http://www.redhat.com/support/wpapers/redhat/netd
This beta contains a kernel providing EA and ACL support for the ext3 filesystem based on the patches and user-level tools from
http://acl.bestbits.at/
The support for EA and ACL is included in several packages:
kernel provides the support for storing EAs and ACLs on disk for ext3 filesystems provides the system calls to manipulate EAs and ACLs; and provides the mechanisms to enforce ACLs on file access.
e2fsprogs includes knowledge of the new on-disk extended attribute formats so that fsck can check filesystems using the new feature.
attr provide access to extended attributes attached to libattr files
acl provide tools to set, modify and query the ACLs set libacl on files
libattr-devel libraries and include files to build programs using libacl-devel, acl, and attr
Yeah, not only does it come with Gnome2, but the installer and all the distro apps use gtk2.
My biggest gripe with RH is the install /configuration too. The standard options doesn't fit my need on my desktop or my servers. So I always end up using "costum" with "kernel-development" (and "XFree"), and then select the rest of the individual packages.
/etc/foo.conf" saves the day.
The best solution is probably spending some time, learning to use "Kick-start".
Another thing: if you dislike being a CD DJ, and have the disk space, then remember that it is possible to install RH directly from the downloaded ISO images on a harddisk partition.
About maintance. Hm. My experience is different from yours. I think RH has become much easier to maintain, especially with RH-network. Mastering RPM to a certain degree is a must though.
Simple stuff like "rpm -Fvh *.rpm --test" or "rpm -qa | grep foo" or "rpm -qf
And underappreciated tool is "mc" or Midnight Commander", a dual panel "Norton Commander" ncurses based clone. Among other things, it is able to browse inside rpm packages. Nifty.
You mention that up2date filled "/". It is configurable where up2date dumps the downloaded rpms. On my servers "/var" and "/home" are on seperate partitions, so that eg. huge, growing log-files etc. doesn't spill over the "/" partition.
Gentoo Linux looks very interesting, and the guy that makes it, D. Robbins has written some extremely well written tutorials for IBM on: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/
That's complete BS. KW'ing actually does serve a useful purpose -- it brings facts into the discussion that would not otherwise be brought up. The people who get the +5 get it because they contribute to the discussion.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Actually up2date can be a very nice program, and if you have several systems you'll get them all listed on the redhat network page where you can easily update them all without logging in on them. I really like the up2date program RedHat offers.
Even if I have used RedHat for several years, I have never recommended it to new PC users. The reason is that (even if they probably be satisfied if I set up a Linux ystem for them) they be more happy if I set up something running MS Windows.
To be an alternative for the ordinary user on the desktop, Linux must have:
* A decent office suite
* A decent browser
* A decent e-mail program
* A streamlined desktop
* A sentralized way to change the system settings
A year ago, Linux didnt have any of this. Open Office 1.0, Mozilla 1.0 and Evolution (or KMail) are brilliant programs. I have no problems recommending them instead of MSOffice, IE, Outlook. (To be honest MS Office is a better program then OpenOffice, but MS Office is way to expencive for an ordinary user, and Open Office is GoodEnough(TM)).
With Gnome 2 and KDE 3 the desktop starts to look fairly streamlined. It still some work to be done on Gnome 2, but hopefully Redhat will fix the most annoying bugs before releasing 8.0.
With "a sentralized way to change system settings" I do mean that the most important settings should be reached from a "control panel"-like program. To the ordinary user it is very hard to explain that the desktop resolution have to be changed by editing a text-file, while the desktop backgroud can be changed by right-clicking the desktop. I hope Redhat have a better control-panel in 8.0.
If they fix the last two items, this could be the first Linux distribution I recommend to a novice computer user. Im looking forward to it..:-)
Limbo is just the first beta release of, dare I say, RH 8.0. New version of gcc may be pretty obvious indication of the next major release. Since it's been released 3 months after 7.3, that would give us a window of about 3 months to beta test this one, beta 2, RC1, perhaps RC2. 3 months doesn't sound as a helluva lot time - my money for this release is on December 2002.
Since I use RH product extensivelly for quite some time now, predominantly as a server platform on a decently sized WAN, I want to take this opportunity to respond to all people in Limbo thread that have been bitching RH again, like they always do, without any apparent reason or, God forbid, technically biased justification.
How can desktop oriented system be changed and improved in a way that IBM, HPQ, Oracle and the likes are supporting it as an Enterprise Class product? How does good chunk of Wall Street transactions get processed every minute of every day on desktop systems? What you're saying is so rediculous that it makes me wonder how would I run a WAN on say, Win98SE.
On the other hand, I am more than pleased, hell - I'm extatic!!! - about all the desktop goodies included in the latest distro. If fine people from RH concentrate enough on this (and looks like they might, according to latest happenings around the embedded product), taking into account all negative publicity Microsoft keeps generating in last couple years, I would be expecting near future with a lot more confidence in possible desktop market earthquakes.
Again, hats of all colours down to Red Hat!
There was a time when Red Hat were seemingly pushing Linuxconf as the system admin tool. Now they have developed their own. Anyone know why?
Washington, DC: It's like Hollywood for ugly people.
Since the Limbo is also a dance, I bet that the next Red Hat release will be codenamed something like Mambo or (dare I say it) Macarena? ;-)
cpeterso
If glibc is going to break compatibility for its next version, I think the glibc maintainers should consider removing functions which KNOWN SECURITY RISKS, such as gets(), strcpy(), strcat(), sprintf(), and friends. There are safer alternatives, such as strncpy(), strncat(), and snprintf(). If glibc removes risky functions, then application writers will be forced to improve their applications by use safer functions and coding practices. Shouldn't known "best practises" be encouraged by the libraries we use as the foundation of our software?
Unfortunately, even some of those "safe" functions can be difficult to use safely. OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and Solaris libc libraries include strlcpy() and strlcat(). Theo de Raadt co-wrote an insightful paper about these new functions: strlcpy and strlcat - consistent, safe, string copy and concatenation . Why does glibc insist on not supporting these safer alternatives?
If removing these risky functions is too controversial, then glibc could use a transitional approach. Move the risky functions' prototypes into a separate header file. Name it something scary like "unsafe.h", "securityrisk.h" or "bufferoverflow.h". Application writers who are too lazy to fix their use of risky functions, can simply #include "bufferoverflow.h".
cpeterso