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EFF And MPAA On Broadcast Flags
mpawlo writes: "Greplaw reports that a broadcast flag is a digital tagging technique used for television programs distributed through digital TV stations. The broadcast flag is used as information stating that the program may not be redistributed. It is not your everyday digital watermarking technique. The idea is to mandate a standard for a broadcast flag. The content providers, through The Motion Picture Association ('MPAA'), will most likely aim for the standard to be lobbied into a law through The Broadcast Protection Discussion Group. Hence, the law would require all hardware able to play the digital TV content to carry broadcast flag equipment (not playing unmarked content). The Electronic Frontier Foundation ('EFF') fears that a law stipulating the standard would threaten creativity. The MPAA has published a list of frequently asked questions ('FAQ') regarding broadcast flags. The EFF has commented the MPAA FAQ."
People who do bulk pirating can get rid of that kind of protection easily. At the extreme, they would do one step of analog copying, then put it back into digital for an unlimited number of generations.
We will have to start getting mod chips for our cable boxes now :)
The EFF version has (I believe, based on a quick scan) all of the content from both the MPAA version and the EFF version.
You can skip MPAA document and go right to the EFF version without missing anything.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
I agree it does seem a bit pointless. It's already illegal to record something and make 50,000 copies of it for sale in Taiwan, so how does this flag help anything? They want to make recording to VCR illegal, just because the recording media happens to be hard disk rather than magnetic tape?
Since it's digital it's also trivial to remove said flag, so it won't even slow the pirates down, let alone stop them.
...protecting content, broadcast or otherwise, will spur the availability of high definition content and thus spur innovation for the systems, devices and services needed to deliver and support them in a broadband environment.
They sure love the word spur, which is derived from the term used to kick the shit out of a horse to get it going. A spur is a sharp instrument worn on the ankle of an abusive cowboy to beat a tired horse into submission.
Is this what the MPAA has in store for consumers? Wouldn't you love to have the MPAA spur your living room technology?
Where are you?
Once they lock down electronic media, they will want to plug "the analog hole."
We are in the middle of a slow descent back into illiteracy. It's no economics and lack of education driving it. It's the people in control. They want to control you, the information you can get, and how you can use that information.
Broadcast news is insipid, but print is a little better, for now. This is largely because it's easier to spot stupidity in written form, when you're not distracted by boobies, animated graphics and short sound/video clips.
Once you can't control your electronic entertainment anymore, because of DRM, broadcast tags, Fritz Hollings's legislation, Palladium, etc., what will you do?
Newspapers and books? How long will those be allowed to exist in their current forms? Paper?!?! How insecure! There will be e-books and e-paper, as in Minority Report. And you won't have control over those either.
In Minority Report, there was scene of a guy on a train reading an "E-USA Today." The front page, which he was reading, changed to the Official Story about the A-Large PreCriminal without the reader requesting it. The reader was told what to read.
Who doubts that this will not be turned into reality?
The problem with science fiction is that it's pretty depressing. So much of it depicts a totalitarian future of some sort. These stories capture and guide the imaginations and creative energy of the current and future generations of designers and engineers. How long have people been working on making things they've seen in Star Trek and Star Wars? And more depressing works, like Minority report?
It's all very anti-freedom, anti-citizen, and stupid.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Q : Even if the motion picture and other industries come up with a system to protect this content with a broadcast flag, the security technology will just be broken into and made worthless in a very short time. Given that, what's the point?
MPAA Answer : It is unfortunate that some people may attempt to illegally hack or break into this security system. However, even if a few are successful, the flag will not be worthless. Most people are honest and will not attempt to circumvent the flag.
What they really mean : Ofcourse they are going to crack this half assed security system. But we would go on pretending that its unbreakable. And we would hunt down and sue any half intelligent intellectual out there who attempt to crack it even for academic purposes. And yes we understand that even if someone cracks it, the majority of the dumb ass public wouldnt care, or wouldnt know, and hence most of our investment is still secure. i.e. until some one else figures out a way to get this crack to the masses. Then we would just put out another FAQ.
Rapid Nirvana
not playing unmarked content
Where did the poster get this bit of info? I see nothing about this in the FAQ, which seems to indicate the opposite, and the FAQ appears to be the only deep link in the article.
The only purpose this seems to serve is to allow the Broadcast providers know when someone stupid is redistibuting their stuff.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
This, along with the M$ stuff, is drifting towards "only approved content will play on your [TV/Rio/PC/PDA]" Who approves the content? Whoops! First amendment!
GOODNIGHT EVERYBODY!!!
So basically they are saying that every video playback software on computers would have to support this? Would this kill open-source video playback software?
On the other hand, like most copy protection measures, it will surely be cracked within a day or two.
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
The last point of the EFF FAQ:
Q: When the broadcast flag is implemented, can I record any TV program with my existing digital player/recorder and watch it later at more convenient time?
MPAA answer: Yes. If you own an early model digital player/recorder, you will be able to record and playback time-shifted digital recordings of flagged broadcasts. These digital recordings will also play on legacy DVD players. However, when Broadcast Flag-compliant DTV receivers are introduced in the marketplace, their recordings will only play on other compliant players and not on older (legacy) devices. Of course, you can still record and playback digital programs with any existing analog videocassettes recorders/players. The broadcast flag does not affect what you have been able to do in the analog world.
EFF comment: This answer confirms that "Compliant" devices produced under the BPDG-proposed rules are less capable than current-generation devices.
i wonder if they also record device-specific information. like preventing me to watch a movie i recorded at my friend's house (digitally of course)
Because digital TV in the US is HD (thats the goal at least, not much actual HD content yet). Makes people nervous when the free content is MUCH higher quality than what they are trying to sell you in DVD form.
Q.
Broadcast flags will do absolutely nothing to deter the Internet trading of copyrighted broadcast video. Anybody interested in publishing recorded video will just use known hacks to extract video from their Tivo or other recording device.The flags may deter Joe Sixpack from copying a recorded video, but Joe is not the person who publishes original videostreams to filesharing networks anyway.
As with the RIAA, the MPAA is using filesharing as a pretense to make a big powergrab over their potential competitors.
They want to be recognized as the only legitimate video content publishers, thus locking out potential upstart competitors that may be empowered by new video distribution networks.
And they want to dictate all terms to consumer electronics manufacturers, who in many cases are their direct competitors. It becomes much easier to shut out electronics manufacturers that are not part of the MPAA when you are drafting the legislation that governs their rules of business.
I currently use a hauppage bt848 card and NVrec to use my home system as a PVR. The card I have was cheap, but only records analog. The HD capable capture cards started at around $400 or so when I last looked!
Help me out, does this mean I aught to buy one of those before this passes, so as to be able to capture HD content in the future... or is the HD format as yet insufficiently negotiated/agreed upon by the players, such that if i were to drop $400 on this HD tuner and capture card, that it will be useless in a year when they come out with an new encrypted HD standard.
Basically, what I want to know, is how -standard- and commited is the current HD protocal?
---
the pen is mightier than the sword, the sword is mightier than the court, the court is mightier than the pen.
Q: Even if the motion picture and other industries come up with a system to protect this content with a broadcast flag, the security technology will just be broken into and made worthless in a very short time. Given that, whats the point?
MPAA answer: It is unfortunate that some people may attempt to illegally hack or break into this security system. However, even if a few are successful, the flag will not be worthless. Most people are honest and will not attempt to circumvent the flag.
So if most people are honest and will not attempt to circumvent the flag, why not just trust the people not to do the horrible, dishonest deeds this measure wants to prevent?
Stallman's "Right to Read"
I guess, what doesn't kill us makes us stupid.
The trend I am talking about is the recent trend of organizations who supply services and/or content are no longer thinking about what the recipients of that service want? The MPAA and RIAA are continuously aiming for more restrictive controls, legislation, and whatnot. This just does not make sense to me. How can it be possible that an organization whose sole purpose is to make money by supplying consumers with what they want no longer be paying attention to what the consumers want? It baffles me, that they are now attempting to lock-in the recipient of their services, rather than adapt and give the recipient what they want.
Why is it that organizations so huge can become so blatantly selfish? Without consumers, they cannot make money -- their ultimate goal. Yes this is also selfish, but not in the same sense that they are no longer paying attention to what is wanted of them. They have been forced with a situation where consumers wants have changed, and they can no longer continue to make money doing what they currently do. They have to options, keep giving the consumers what they are getting now -- but what they no longer want. Or, give them what they want.
The choice they chose is obvious.
It is just disturbing how organizations like this have lost so much respect for the buying public.
Q: Are all TV programs going to be flagged?
MPAA answer: No. The broadcasters that transmit the programming will set the broadcast flag as "on or off" based on private contractual agreements with content providers. Content providers can choose, on a program-by-program basis, whether the flag will be turned on.
Translation: Excluding infomercials and ads, yes. It is illegal to record anything else, since you, the consumer, are thieves, murderers, pirating pices of shit and can not be trusted. Only big business can be trusted and knows what is good for us^H^Hyou.
They go on to say what seems like... aw who cares. There's so much in that FAQ that just makes me want to grab one of their execs, throw em in a chair, and grill them about what they actually believe. Crazy stuff.
The whole thing smells like (is) propaganda, but that's the age we live in.
That is what will happen with this. Some electronic companies are going to release recorders that will bypass the compliance requirement once they relize that the compliant recorders are not selling well(who is going to buy a recorder that can't record anything?).
But if the MPAA get their legislation through, won't it be illegal to own a non-compliant device?
It is already legal to record anything shown on TV for personal use so I don't see how this extra 'bit flag' could become a reality...
You think the MPAA cares about your legal rights? (Hint: they don't)
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Will the new players be able to play unmarked video content? If not, I cannot view my own library of home videos I have created of my family. I will also be unable to electronically distribute my videos, even if I should desire to do so. Given the popularity of the "Reality TV" shows these days that depend on home video and security camera footage, this could be a problem for the TV networks looking for shows to broadcast.
Will I be able to mark my content in the same manner as the big studios do? If I cannot, then this "broadcast flag" becomes a means for the current content providers to effectively ban any new competition.
Will I be able to obtain technical details of the new flag in order that I may create my own recording/playback equipment that is compliant with this? If not, then it becomes a means of creating a monopoly in the consumer electronics market. If I can get the technical information, it becomes a joke as that same information would make it trivially easy to defeat the broadcast flag at will.
Now that it's virtually dead, I went to buy a Playstation recently, in order to play lots of old Square games.
I'm a Brit, and I have friends in the states, so I was planning on having them ship me some games (Chrono Trigger, etc, stuff you can't get here *at all*).
Now, I had a choice. I could not be able to play any import games, even ones that I purchased, or were purchased for me, or I could get my Playstation modded. I chose the latter.
Now, temptation wise, if somebody offers me a copied game, I probably won't say no. If they hadn't put stupid region locks on, I would probably never have bothered - it's nice to be honest sometimes, but since they force me to mod it in the first place, then it means odds are I will end up pirating something.
Everyone of these protections can be circumvented in the end - and if it's pushed too far (as with DVDs) you will turn a substantial proportion of your customers into criminals (or at the very least, people who are happy to change the way your system works)....
The consumerism goes beyond that. Consumerist culture says that if you want something you should have to pay for it, and if you're not willing to pay for it, you don't want it. That there is nothing to gain by making things available for free (ever heard of a library?).
I don't even think all of these technological measures enforcing copyright would be so terrible, if after 12 years, all copyrighted works would be available for all.
Our copyright laws are outdated. They were created in a time when there was no such thing as a free book, or a free movie, because there were printing costs, and there was a natural scarcity to these products. So no one was really hurt too much by giving the author exclusive right to sell it. But now we are imposing artificial scarcity onto art, locking it up forever, just to squeeze an extra 10% of revenue out of it, and preventing 99.9% of people who would've seen it if it were free, from seeing it at all.
The broadcast flag is used as information stating that the program may not be redistributed.
As long as they only turn on the flag during the commercials, sounds like a great idea!
I'm totally opposed to any form of content tagging, whether it be a flag (gee, I wonder how I turn that off? Toggle it?), a digital watermark, or anything else.
The reason is simple: the studios and TV stations will always flip the flag to "not allowed to record". And then sue the pants off anyone who wants to tape the show for later.
Why bother having a tagging system if it is always going to be set to the same value, and that value is incompatible with common sense uses of the work?
I just hope that the EFF can get their FAQ seen by a sufficient number of politicians that lawmakers begin to see the futility and stupidity of access control tagging. A flag that is set to a constant value is no better than no flag at all.
The holy grail of copy protection is to keep everything off the internet, and thus, off the personal computer. General purpose computing devices are the biggest threat, and everything possible is being done to cripple them.
For now, we can get HD signals over component analog outputs, which when done right, are of excellent quality. And capture cards with component inputs will come around soon enough. Macrovision in these cards is often implemented or enabled through the drivers, which can and will be hacked. So if we're using an external tuner and a capture card, the video can end up on a computer, just as long as macrovision over component is defeated.
The enemy of this approach is the external tuner that refuses to output anything greater than 480p over component. We'll see about this - all TVs currently on the market will only accept HD signals over component, so this would be breaking compatibility with the entire installed base today. Mod chipping is a possibility here, or APEX-style hidden menus.
Some day, we'll have HD transferred digitally over 1394. It's a certainty that your 1394 tv will accept a signal only from an approved 1394 tuner and will output only to an approved 1394 recording device that implements DRM. But interestingly enough, I have a 1394 port on my computer right now.
I can transfer DV over 1394 from my camara to my computer. What's to stop me from transferring MPEG2 over it from my future tv? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing stopping me is a lack of driver support, and the DRM layer in firewire. The latter is the challenge: cracking DRM at the hardware level. All the EE geeks of the world have their jobs cut out for them.
So the question is this: how hard is it to build a black box that takes an mpeg2 video stream over 1394 and strips it of its copy protection? We usually can't fab our own ASICs, but what about FPGA? Can/will it reach high enough speeds to process firewire signals in realtime?
Ah well, I'm skeptical. It seems to be taking an increasing amount of sophistication to defeat DRM, and the one thing the underground community doesn't do too well is coordinate its efforts. It would need the cooperation of the EE geeks for the hardware level DRM, the CS geeks for making mpeg2 over firewire work on the PC, etc.
Nix absolutably seriousness.
Because, consumer, you might try to distribute it without the commercials, thus depriving the broadcasters of their rightful income.
</sarcasm>.
You don't mean "already". You mean "currently (despite the efforts of the MPAA)".
2001: US prerecorded videocassette sales are approximately $4 billion.
I Pledge allegiance to the broadcast flag of the Motion Picture Association of America, and to the restrictions for which it stands; one copyright, restricted, with freedom of access for none.
Flout 'em and scout 'em,
and scout 'em and flout 'em;
Thought is free. - Shakespeare [The Tempest]
... Except, of course, that the number of anime releases by a major studio can likely be counted on one hand. (I'm thinking Akira and the the upcoming commercial release of the Cowboy Bebop movie, as well as the various implementations of Fuzzy Seizure Rodents.) In fact, with the exception of Manga (a relatively small company with few, although some major, licenced titles) and Pioneer (who tend to be overpriced to begin with, IMHO), the domestic anime companies tend to avoid using Macrovision or regioning at all unless it's stipulated in the license - in fact, this is the official policy of ADV, the largest US anime translator/distributor.
/. stance on the MPAA may well be hypocritical... enthusiasm for anime releases is rarely an example of such. ^^
So... well the
Existing set-top HD tuners will continue to work, so no class action for you.
Exactly. Apparently "honesty" here is defined as technical inability to break the copy protection AND lack of any friends or contacts who are able to break the copy protection.
Hey MPAA, DVDs already have copy protection, and that doesn't stop them from being swapped on P2P file sharing systems, IRC, FTP servers, and person to person via burner (just like floppies in the old days). Do you really think that this will be better than DVD/CSS security?
BTW I was in Fry's Electronics yesterday and was astonished to see how cheap the various CD-RW and DVD-R/RW/whatever drives are (hadn't bothered to look at prices for a while). Remember the days (late 80s) when the main mode of copying software was floppy swap meets? One person cracked the copy protection, then folks physically went over to someone else's house where they made a copy for each person who then went home and did the same thing. CD-R[W] drives and media are in a similar price range now, and I see the same thing happening with CDs that I saw with floppies years ago. It's totally feasible to go over to your friend's house, bring a PC or two with you, and sit there and burn 100 or more CDs at a time.
This is just a historical reminder about why copy protection is a foolish endeavor. The only difference between nobody being able to copy something and everybody being able to copy something is that one guy who cracks it. If you know anybody who has acquired a cracked copy, then everybody you know can get one.
It's kinda like buying illegal drugs - if you want them, and you know somebody you trust who has them, you can get them. I bet that for every person who is sure they couldn't get them (and thus that the drug war is being won) there is a friend who can get them whom they just haven't bothered to ask yet. Hello, entertainment industry, welcome to your own private drug war. I can't wait to pay taxes for cops to put DVD copiers in jail right next to potheads.
The broadcast flag is not used in satellite receivers, so I was talking about over-the-air HD tuners.
But if the MPAA get their legislation through, won't it be illegal to own a non-compliant device?
The "best Congress money can buy" may make it illegal to _sell_ non-compliant devices, but I very much doubt that the public would stand for the cops coming into people's houses to check their DVD players. As for manufacturing non-compliant devices, they haven't bought the legislatures in other countries yet - for instance, it's easy to get all-region DVD players in Australia and Europe. So at most, they might create another bootlegging business.
I almost hope that the **AA idiots do get some horribly intrusive laws passed - fscking up people's video players is about the only thing I can thing of that would wake up the American public and get all those corrupt, halfwitted, permanent Congressmen kicked out at last. They'll be replaced by other corrupt halfwits, but most of the new ones will see bigger opportunities in bashing the media than in taking their b^r^i^b^ campaign contributions - there are lots of other corporations handing out the payola. The new Congress would repeal that law ASAP (on the general grounds that if they broke that election promise, they might not _live_ until the next election), then when the next election approaches they'd need to do something further to garner the votes. Maybe rolling back copyright terms to a reasonable length, or even taking a look at EULA's, and at software & business method patents too...
I think the government should take away all profits earned from VHS tapes. The MPAA wanted to take away VHS from us, lets take away their VHS profits from them and show them what it's like if VHS didn't exist.
This may be a very naive question, but I am still curious.
Why do organizations which are obviously selfish (ignoring specifics), such as the MPAA, have better luck at lobbying for legislation than organizations which are obviously sincere and looking out for the people, such as the EFF?
Yes, I'm sure that money exchanges hands and that there is a little corruption involved. However, I cannot see how there is *that* much corruption to justify things like the DeCSS outcome and the undeserved resilience of the DMCA. Do most legislators really buy what the MPAA says?
I know the EFF is too honest to slip any money under the table, but I (perhaps naively) don't believe that the MPAA benefits too much from those tactics, so it seems like there has to be something else.
I have also spoken to a few politicians (Senators), and they always seem to be at least moderately intelligent and concerned. Yes, I know most of that is an act, but I can't see how a group of people of average (or better than average) intelligence can come to the conclusions that the US government has in recent times.
I fear that things like this are going to go MPAA's way, and I don't even understand how that's possible...
Source code is a lot like a parachute; it needs to be open in order to function properly.
They sure love the word spur, which is derived from the term used to kick the shit out of a horse to get it going. A spur is a sharp instrument worn on the ankle of an abusive cowboy to beat a tired horse into submission.
Hm, I have a pair of 20mm rowel-less Stubben offset stainless steel spurs at home, and I don't remember their being sharp (actually, they're quite blunt), and I'm certainly no "abusive cowboy." On the other hand, I'm an accomplished English-style equestrienne who has had to deal with horses who are more fractious than tired (note: all the spurring in the world won't rouse an exhausted horse), and "kicking the shit" out of the kind of horse who needs spurs is liable to land you face-down in the dirt -- don't laugh, I've seen it happen. A nudge to the nag is usually sufficient...
I will admit that this metaphor of the MPAA's is extremely clumsy. The sense, here, in this case, is more that they're guiding a bunch of testy technologists and cranky consumers into cooperating with them (they haven't quite got curb chains and Kimblewicks on us yet!).
Now, mind you, coercion is still coercion, and I'm not happy about it one bit (chortle chortle). After all, we're not ponies, we're profit.
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.