US Army to Test Laser Based Mine Clearing Device

QueueEhGuy writes "Yahoo News is running a Reuters story indicating that the United States will soon be testing a laser which "will either explode or evaporate the explosives in the device which can be up to 250 yards away.." It's about time, I was starting to think that we'd never blow stuff up with light." New Scientist has another story, complete with nifty graphic. The Zeus homepage has a few pictures and specs.

Comments

dumb question

[Telastyn]

How are they going to power the thing?

It's not as though you can just plug the humvee in on the battlefield...

The next step in the evolution

[lingqi]

Everybody saw Akira, right? remember Sol? yeah... i remember Sol...

unlike the Starwars (Regan) lasers -- these are solid state so as long as you have a power source, they can be re-used. with the advances in today's high capacity capacitors (erm), just hook up that laser satellite to a solar panel and let her rip. boost the power a litter and who says you can't burn down airplanes in flight and stuff?

and (unlikely, but) if somebody hacked the satellite network? oh boy... i think i am going to buy some SPF4000 sunscreen.

future warfare is getting gonna get really interesting, really fast.

look at the other point

[doubtless]

This is all good and neat, but how about we look at the treaty for banning land mines? Take a look at http://www.banminesusa.org.

Hey, we can clear your land mines with our cool laser technology for only $200,000,000. By the way, here's the brochure for our newest offering of grade AAA mines.

Re:look at the other point

[rlthomps-1]

look at the other other point.

Right now the US can't sign a treaty to ban land mines because of our involvement in Korea and other countries. The Korean penninsula is so small that an invading army could take south korea in a matter of days. The only thing short of a fully equipped battle ready army that can slow this kind of surprise attack are the land mines that currently occupy the area in the DMZ between the north and south.

Its not pretty but in some cases the only thing we can do is use landmines.

Re:look at the other point

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, i agree that the vietnam land mines should constitute some sort of war crime that someone in the U.S. gov should be convicted of, but most discussion on this subject just doesn't understand what is happening. Please, please keep this in mind, it is important:

Current american landmines are short term only.

In the current technology, American landmines are now battery-powered. When the battery goes out, the landmine doesn't work anymore. Meaning, by design, the landmines have a built-in lifespan past which point they don't harm anyone unless a 12-year old digs up an unexploded mines

Yeah, landmines are horrible and kill people. But War is horrible and kills people. Attack the problem, not the solution. Working to ban any method of warfare, such as non-time-limited landmines, which cause horrible scars to the country long after the war is over, is an important and noble cause. However, that does not cover the current american landmine technology.

That being said, a technological advance that could be used to clear out the submerged minefields of the past with 100% accuracy would be something i'd say is worthy of the nobel peace prize. But other threads seem to be saying that doesn't quite describe this laser thing? Pity.

007

[GoodbyeBlueSky1]

Maybe it's just me, but I always thought the old N64 Goldeneye method of getting rid of mines would be far easier; you know, there's a mine on the ground, you don't know where it is, so throw a grenade/remote mine/etc in its vicinity and it will blow up with the ensuing blast. Now I know it's a silly videogame idea but it just seems so much more intuitive than this. The specs on this thing (from Zeus' site) say it can hit a target from 25 to 250 meters. You wanna be the one aiming that far? Throw another bomb, it's a hell of a lot easier! Takes care of the under-the-surface ones as well. Of course, the area would have to be rather deserted, but no more than it would take to detonate a surface mine in the first place.

Just my wacky $0.02

Oh, and keep in mind that my tongue is planted firmly within the warm crevace of my cheek.

Why not use sound waves?

[orangepeel]

I've occasionally wondered why someone hasn't tried clearing minefields using some tacky Rockford Phosgate subwoofers mounted on a nice big tank.

If the late-night losers around here can shake my apartment building as they drive by with their oh-so-cool car audio systems, surely a military organization could crank things up to the point that any mine within a mile radius would detonate.

Besides, you could keep the locals entertained (at a distance) with some cool tunes.

about time?

[s.fontinalis]

It's about time we start blowing things up with lasers? Apparently you've missed a 6 billion dollar project in the US, which, technically is a hell of a lot cooler. The Airborne Laser. Stick a laser in a 747 and aim it at Nuclear missiles.

http://www.airbornelaser.com/

Re:americans finally see the light

[rlthomps-1]

as most land-mines were planted by them

I think that's a really unfair statement, especially when you consider the fact that it isn't true. Any country will plant land mines when they find it necessary and lots of countries have been trying to find a way to get rid of them when they're past their use.

If you as a canadian are going to take the high road in this matter you should be criticizing your own country for not making innovations in land mine removal technology. Instead you're sitting there and smugly taking a swipe at the US.

You can't sit as a spectator for this sort of thing and dish out moral judgements and expect to be taken seriously.... but then again you're Canadian so I guess you really shouldn't expect to be taken seriously

Millions of dollars wasted on this stupid LASER

[wealthychef]

This stupid laser is an idiotic idea meant to fatten some stupid colonel's budget. A much cheaper solution has been designed by Dr. Bill Wattenburg and can be seen by going to this page.
The army doesn't care about its soldiers, only its budget.

Re:Not for de-mining during peacetime

[stoolpigeon]

So that's what I figured.

Another post linked to an anti-mine site that says there are like 80 million landmines in 80 different countries.

Now some one else posted that the U.S. has placed most land mines but I find this difficult to believe.

I would imagine that many of those currently placing mines are those actively involved in conflicts looking for a cheap way to do some damage. Not the U.S. military. (I could be wrong but I doubt it)

So the problem is people wanting to kill others. The antimine people look to me to be avoiding the real issue in favor of blaming the tool.

I've never looked into this too closely so I haven't made up my mind on anything but it looks like once again the problem is people w/bad intentions. Can't ban that.

.

Normal military-industrial spin

[tagishsimon]

Let's recheck the facts: portable laser device that:

a) cannot penetrate soil
b) is judged useless for civilian mine clearing
c) is presumably 1,000,000 less efficient than a tank mounted flail

So. Perhaps what we're looking at is the normal machinery of death industry dressing up some weapons R&D in a quasi-humanitarian guise? How much more likely that there are 101 offensive uses of this device to each defensive use?

Re:Not for de-mining during peacetime

[ErfC]

The requirements for de-mining during peacetime and during wartime are wildly different.

During wartime, you want to get the field cleared out as fast as possible, often because people are trying to kill you while you're clearing. So there's a balance between speed and thoroughness; after a certain point, the odds of dying from a missed landmine become worse than the odds of getting shot while clearing. I'm sure that's not the only thing, but the point is during wartime you need the field cleared fast, and it's "okay" if you miss a couple.

During peacetime, you can take all the time you need (well, to a point), but it is absolutely essential that you can guarantee you've found every single mine or nobody will use that field or whatever, and you might as well not have demined at all. For example, over at the Canadian military they're apparently working on a device that shines an x-ray beam down into the earth and looks for characteristic reflections from mines. They pass this device very carefully over every square centimetre of a field, and the idea is that this way they don't miss anything. But it takes forever.

I've heard of another technique where they genetically engineer a local weed so that it glows in the dark (or something) in the presence of certain fumes given off by mines. Seed the field with these modified plants, wait a season (so it's obviously not practical for military use), then look for the glowing bits...

Re:Not for de-mining during peacetime

[Qrlx]

There are plenty of places where landmines from previous conflicts are waiting to be cleaned up. Southeast Asia is probably the best example. Africa has its share of problems too.

The United States does deploy land mines, (a.k.a. Area Denial Weapons) mostly along the South Korea / North Korea border. The USA stands alone among Western countries in not banning the use of the devices. Regardless, land mines can be bought for about six dollars on the open market! (Gotta love those economies of scale)

So the problem is people wanting to kill others. The antimine people look to me to be avoiding the real issue in favor of blaming the tool.

The problem is not people wanting to kill others. The problem is *land mines*, which continue to kill and maim long after the war is over. The world considers this to be acceptable. Part of the problem is that the USA considers this to be acceptable.

We were able to ban the use of poison gas after World War I, and Western nations have not used it since. Poison gas kills indiscriminantly, without regard for civilian or military status, and it is a very unpleasant way to die. Civlized nations decided that even in war, there are rules. The USA, of course, has more chemical and biological weapons than any other country on earth...

Like we did with poison gas, we should ban land mines, and stop using them, and most of all stop producing them.

We can't prevent people from having bad intentions but we can set some boundaries on acceptable behavior. Poison gas was deemed unacceptable. Land mines kill indiscriminantly long after the war is over. They must be banned, and they should be removed from the face of the earth.

I've never looked into this too closely so I haven't made up my mind on anything but it looks like once again the problem is people w/bad intentions. Can't ban that.

Look closely. The problem is not people with bad intentions. It is that these people continue to use a weapon which keeps fighting after the war is over. The combatants have gone home, but the land mines they left behind keep blowing up.

Re:Not for de-mining during peacetime

[stoolpigeon]

The world considers this to be acceptable.

This is what I mean about the people problem.

Part of the problem is that the USA considers this to be acceptable

From what I've read today the U.S. does not find this to be acceptable. In fact they haven't made antipersonnel mines in years and have banned their export. Apparently they are very easy/cheap to manufacture and they continue to be in use because people want to kill other people and this is a very cheap way to do it. Poison gas is not a good comparison as it is not so cheap to produce, store and deploy.

They must be banned, and they should be removed from the face of the earth.


I agree that we would be better off without them but I am not sure that the ban will get the job done. It looks like these are way too easy to manufacture and there is a market. (kind of like narcotics).

I'll keep researching because I'm very interested but from what I've read on the antimine web site that supports the ban- the U.S. has not produced or exported mines in over 6 years- nor do they intend to do so in the future. Getting them to sign the ban seems symbolic at best. I'm familiar w/this kind of thinking as it is what drives the anti-gun lobby. Much more sentimental motivation than reason.

A much cheaper and better solution....

[mattm76]

Bill Wattenburg's Helicopter-pulled Chain Matrix. Check out: his site (requires RealVideo) and a letter he wrote to the SF Chronicle

This maybe way too simple and cheap for the US government to consider and not nearly as cool as jeeps mounted with "laserbeams", but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be effective.

Re:Not for de-mining during peacetime

[DNS-and-BIND]

Yeah, the problem is all the USA's fault. Even with the most tenuous of links, the USA should receive the full amount of blame for all the land mines in the world due to the strips of no-man's land in Korea.

I especially noticed the part where Russia and China, the largest exporters of land mines, didn't even make the post. After all, it's all the USA's fault.

Re:Not for de-mining during peacetime

[arivanov]

So what is exactly keeping these mines from getting cleaned up?

You need to find them first. Most of these minefields are layed out "blanket" style and there are no maps where the mines have been put in. As a result it becomes a task of combing the entire surface of the conflict zone. Including woods, swamps, mountain ranges, etc. It took more then 40 years to clear the ex-WWII minefields in former USSR. Kids were getting themnselves blown up palying in the Belorussian woods as recent as 1980-es

Back to this device. With this device you have to see them to clear them. This is good for exploading UXO and disarming bombs put by nuts of various origin. Basically it is the same market as the current police force UK and israeli made robots, which use a pump action shotgun to detonate the bomb. Unfortunately they often get blasted into bits while doing this as they have to do it from under 20m range. And they are b*** expensive.

So I guess that police forces around the world especially in UK, Middle East, Greece, etc will happlily buy this truck. I do not see it getting any wide military deployment. The reason for this is that it is not very useful on a properly layed minefield where you cannot see the mines. A tank rolling a reinforced plough or the solid fuel propelled one-time use ploughs will be of much better use.