Simputer Runs Into Problems

dejaffa writes "It seems that an Indian Linux-based "computer for the poor" is having financial issues. This has implications for the world digital divide. The story is here (MSNBC, I know, I know). There were originally great hopes for it, as seen here, but money is proving to be the stumbling block."

Comments

well, what do you expect?

[Transient0]

when you try to base a real world business plan on sim-dollars(simoleans). The sims may be a pretty impressive environment, but it's not reality yet.

On the other hand, $200 would be a nice change for a cheap sim-puter. I always thought $999 was a bit steep for an entry-level model.

Re:well, what do you expect?

[AtomicBomb]

Simputer is a cool idea, but based on bad commerical decision. With a form factor like a PDA, they are effectively competing for the same type of high cost components, manufacturing facilities with all the major players in the market. Business is business, you should not expect others to do you a favour.

Even the projected 50000 units in a year (for 2004) is not a big number. If I were the Simputer Foundation, I would try to cut a deal with cheap PDA manufacturers for a standard PDA and focus on just providing Linux specialised software initially.

of course.

[kipple]

there's plenty of food for the entire human being (as reported by the recent FAO meeting) but people are starving because feeding the poor doesn't pay back.

there's plenty of money for the simputer but it has financial issues because, well, poor people won't put money into the economy of the internet.

so sad.

Re:of course.

[Surlyboi]

Why should we feed the poor? In a matter of a couple hundred years America managed to transform the wilderness into a land with enough food to feed it's people (and then some).

Nevermind the fact that it was done with an
abundance of arrable land and at the expense of
the people that were on that land first...

But why should we sell food for less than it costs to make? We should we give it away to free?

Because we're not using it to begin with and we're
paying farmers not to sell it. Why? because
we have too much food in the US. Now, this
is changing, as we're losing farmland to urbanization
and the population of the US is growing as well.
But, at present, we make too much and then sit on
it. Do you really think it's better to let the
food rot in silos across the US than give it away?

These starving societies have been around for hundreds, or thousands of years longer than us and yet still find themselves starving?!

Some of these people live in places where the soil
has been tapped out from too much harvesting,
others in places where planting is nearly impossible.
A bunch of people in the US find themselves starving
as well. Poverty knows no specific culture.

"Sound like a troll?" If it ain't, it sure as hell
should be. No, we shouldn't just let them die...

Simputer in Financial Troubles

[Peapod]

Does anyone else see the irony here? An idea conceived to help a nation with some of the poorest people in the world recover at least somewhat financially, and the people wanting to manufacture it cannot even afford to have it produced.

Wonderful.

-Peapod

Noble maybe, but realistic?

[taeric]

While I can certainly understand the desire to get technology "to the people," I do have to wonder about the uses.

It is nice to think that a farmer could use such a device to get prices on equipment and such from around the world, however, what good will it do them? They still will probably be forced to buy what is easily provided.

Instead, this seems like a case where people are just hoping that a computer can magically fix so many problems. I don't understand it, how exactly is the computer supposed to be the answer that solves world poverty?

Should we not instead look to get more usefull technology to these farmers and other poor nations? Technologies that can in fact help them lead healthier more productive lives? Hell, a simple education could probably work wonders for many of them.

-josh

Re:Noble maybe, but realistic?

[Derwen]

It is nice to think that a farmer could use such a device to get prices on equipment and such from around the world, however, what good will it do them? They still will probably be forced to buy what is easily provided. Instead, this seems like a case where people are just hoping that a computer can magically fix so many problems. I don't understand it, how exactly is the computer supposed to be the answer that solves world poverty?

You have a rather narrow view of peoples' chance for progress :-(

Whilst the farmer may carry on with her farm, with little direct and immediate benefit to herself from the computer, it could mean a lot for her children.
Tech jobs is a growth sector in India (unlike in Europe atm) and early access to technology for children of the poor can lead to them getting out of povrty - through a good job - and then helping others in their family/community, too.

You might as well question what use a cheap PC is to someone who works in your local "burger bar" - after all, it won't help them with their burger-flipping :-/
- Derwen

Re:Noble maybe, but realistic?

[jafuser]

There's no financial incentive to making the masses smarter. As a matter of fact, I'm sure some large-corporate executives would find it in their best interests that the public remain as ignorant as possible, so they won't be aware of what they're buying, eating, smelling in the water, etc.

Re:Noble maybe, but realistic?

[Quixote]

It is nice to think that a farmer could use such a device to get prices on equipment and such from around the world, however, what good will it do them? They still will probably be forced to buy what is easily provided.

In a fairly efficient market (like the USA), you take a lot of things for granted. However, things are a bit different in India. There are a lot of middlemen involved, and information is a scarce commodity (I'm speaking of market information). In this situation, an "enabling device" like this Simputer can make a difference. There's no guarantee that it will, but there's a possibility that it will. And that is all that one can hope for.

If a farmer can, through a simple search, figure out the best (selling) prices for his corn/wheat/cotton/etc. in the neighborhood, he can take advantage of that. This information then gets translated into real rupees in his pocket.

Heck, even decent weather forecasts can mean a lot to most of them.

We have to stop pigeon-holing the Internet into a fixed perceived role. What uses a, say, aborogine in Australia has for the Internet is best determined by her, and not by someone like me sitting here in the USA. I say provide people with the tools, and see what they make of them.

Price problem

[Chardish]

Computers aren't cheap. They never have been. When it comes to food, shelter, medicine, or computers, what do you think has the lowest spending priority for a poor person?

-evan

Re:Price problem

[mangu]

Computers aren't cheap. They never have been.

Yes, the whole point in the Simputer project was to change that.

When it comes to food, shelter, medicine, or computers, what do you think has the lowest spending priority for a poor person?

Give a poor person food, shelter, and medicine, and you will solve his problems today. Give him a computer and he will be able to afford the food, shelter, and medicine he needs in the future.

Re:Price problem

[Twylite]

If you're hungry and in a country where many people are dying of preventable illnesses, education is the greatest key to upliftment.

Most children have to forgo the opportunity of education in order to survive, because they are needed at home to contribute. This means that they don't have the time to walk 15km to and from school every day, as many children in Africa do.

A broader base of accessible computers is a means to improve this situation. It will allow literacy improvement at home for many children and adults. It will also bring knowledge on how to avoid preventable diseases, primarily through basic nutrition and sanitation.

These are areas of adult education that have been notoriously difficult to target because of a lack of resources, and the target audience being illiterate and not having the time to devote to learning.

An interactive medium like a computer does not require literacy, and can be used to teach literacy. It can also (through expert systems) substitute for a doctor or paramedic when experts are not on hand (say, 100km away on a dirt road).

The digital divide is not about people who don't have (quake|word processing|e-mail) versus those who do, it is about the failure to use modern (digital) technologies to address issues in underdeveloped countries.

Maslow's Hierarchy is a model, and as with most models it is not entirely accurate, nor is it intended to function without context. 'Surfing the net' may not feature, but security needs and social needs -- both of which are enabled through education -- are directly above physical/biological needs.

Re:Price problem

[gad_zuki!]

As has been stated earlier the price is prohibitive if you think of it as a personal computer. Its a communal computer. For instance this is marketed for a typical small village that has one phone line and one phone.

I really don't know if this can do what its promised to do. For instance by connecting your simputer with the phone you can get daily prices on what your crop is worth and what you grow is selling for at different places. Hypothetically, the poor village could be making smarter selling and buying decisions which can only lead to being less poor. Whether this is practical is beyond me. If some province or other village has cotton cheap is a nice fact to know but delivering the goods is totally a different story. Depending on how much infrastructure you have in place it could work out very well for all concerned.

Then there's education software. Who knows it could connect to a medical diagnostic database.

The real problem I see here is expecting this gamble, which it really is, to work in a non-subsidized market. Not only is the price prohibitive in a few respects (afterall it is an investment, communal or not), its also only effective if everyone has one. This thing will probably not go anywhere without government subsidies.

Re:Price problem

[mangu]

The biggest thing people in third world countries need (generally speaking) is freedom.

And the reason why they don't have freedom is because they live in countries which do not produce enough goods for everybody. No starving person can ever be free.

The only way for a country to improve from a "Third World" situation is to acquire an industrial technology, sufficiently advanced to compete in the world market against the "First World". See, for instance, South Korea and Taiwan. And, as long as computers are a privilege of the upper classes, the acute social distortions found in all Third World countries will continue to exist.

I think the problem in this thread is that people assume those "simputers" would be distributed in refugee camps. If you have $200 to spend, in a Third World country you are already "middle class", and can also afford the basics you need to survive. If you can use a computer, you already have a basic education. The idea in selling cheap computers is to give tools to those who need them more, people who have the talent to be much more productive if given an opportunity.

I should know, I live in Brazil and have seen the huge improvement in living conditions that technology brings. For instance, five years ago in this country, telecommunication services were a state monopoly. The federal-government-owned phone companies were unable to satisfy the demand for telephones, one had to buy them in the black market for over $5000. In 1998 cheap cell phones became available from privatized companies; today any day laborer in Brazil has a cell phone. A perfect example of technology increasing the productivity of low-skill workers in the Third World.

Re:Price problem

[foobar104]

And, as long as computers are a privilege of the upper classes, the acute social distortions found in all Third World countries will continue to exist.

Aren't you confusing computers with opportunity? Personally I don't buy the ``social inequity is the root of all evil'' and ``the class system is inherently bad'' arguments, but let's set that aside for a minute. Giving a random person off the street a computer does not, in any way, enable him to improve his station in life. In order to do that, he's going to have to go out and get an education (if he lacks one) and a good job. Having a computer won't help him with those things.

In 1998 cheap cell phones became available from privatized companies; today any day laborer in Brazil has a cell phone. A perfect example of technology increasing the productivity of low-skill workers in the Third World.

You left out the part about how having a cell phone increases the productivity of a low-skill worker. If you're a salesman or something, and your job is based on talking to people on the phone, then having a cell phone might make you more productive. But if you work in a field or a factory or something, having a cell phone won't improve your productivity in any measurable way.

Your argument is really specious.

Re:Price problem

[mangu]

You left out the part about how having a cell phone increases the productivity of a low-skill worker.

I didn't want to extend an already long post, but, since you asked, people who benefit most from a cell phone are unemployed people doing odd jobs. For gardeners, housekeepers, plumbers, etc, it can make a huge difference when one can be readily called to do some job that appears. I first realized this when I was at a meeting at my company and a phone went off. It belonged to the cleaning woman who had come in to clean a coffee spill.

Re:Price problem

[mangu]

You cannot make money off of people who do not have any money

These people DO have money. The Simputer would cost $200, they would need at least that much money to buy one. I don't know about India, but in Brazil $200 is two months minimum wage. People with $200 to spend in a computer in the Third World do not live in cardboard shanties. They live in brick houses, much more solid than the particleboard panels used in most homes in the USA.

Re:Price problem

[cygnusx]

> INDIA has had 3000 years, and yet can't seem to do anything

This country was a loose confederation of states for most of those 3000 years, and most had no joint standing army. One invasion after another -- Aryan, Hun, Moslem, British, not to mention the (more than the?) usual quota of internal intrigue (a la europe) raped India quite enough. Think about that, you prick, before passing snap judgements on 1.1 billion people.

> We are talking about countries and societies that absolutely REFUSE to take the steps neccessary to increase living standards.

How do _you_ know? Go and check out how the GDP has risen over the past 15 years. Check out the cost of living too, while you're about it. Check out how basic health services, telecom, transport have improved. Can we do better? Sure! We have crappy leaders, imho, and our education system could use a thorough cleanup. But are we _not trying at all_? No, you pampered little snot. We are _trying_, and it may take longer than your lifetime or mine, but I think we'll get there, with help or without.

Re:Price problem

[foobar104]

You're really reaching here. Having a cell phone, with only tiny exceptions, doesn't make anyone more employable. It's irrelevant to a person's overall social or financial standing.

If having a cell phone meant you were suddenly skilled at operating machine tools, or educated at a significantly higher level, that might mean something. But being able to make and receive phone calls doesn't make you more employable, or put you in a better job. It just helps you do your existing job better. That's not going to do anything to affect social or economic inequity.

Re:Price problem

[jafuser]

Who knows it could connect to a medical diagnostic database.

Ah, yet another vision of the future which will never come to be (like flying cars). And who's going to pay for access to this database? It's not going to sit online for free, consuming hundreds if not thousands of watts of power and kilo/megabits of bandwidth in some rack somewhere.

Didn't the late 90s show that the 'net can *not* provide useful, reliable information, for free? Sometimes you can find an online source which fits two of those three, but most of the time it's only one.

Re:Price problem

[mangu]

When a pipe blows up and your kitchen is under water, do call a plumber who has a phone or do you go all the way to his home to see if he's available? For a low skill-worker whose livelihood depends on small services, a phone means a huge difference in employability.

Re:Price problem

[foobar104]

But we're talking about cellular phones in particular. We did a lot of business for a long time before cellular phones became available. I still don't think the argument is valid.

Re:Price problem

[mangu]

A plumber is not a low-skilled worker. At least not where I come from.

I come from Rio de janeiro, Brazil, were a plumber is "low-skill". In Brazil, a "skilled" worker is a lawyer, engineer, dentist, someone who has gone through college, or, at least, some sort of professional training course, like a lathe operator, agronomist, electronics technician, or accountant.

Cutting and fitting pipes is a profession that can be learned in a few days. Having a cell phone does not make such a professional more skilled, but it makes it easier for him to get job assignments. It makes him more productive because he gets more customers. Instead of sitting idle most of the day, he can be cutting and fitting pipes with a hacksaw. He doesn't need to know how to read and write to do that, but he needs to know exactly where his services are needed at a given time.

Re:Price problem

[Twylite]

According to Google, 33000 lemmings^Wpeople think you're wrong. So does the Oxford English Dictionary.

You're American right ...?

Re:Price problem

[Twylite]

I think you missed my point entirely. In many rural communities, especially in Africa (the situation in India, specifically, is different), people don't have access to education because of the distances involved in getting to facilities.

Studies have shown that computers CAN, if used correctly, address this problem, and be a substitute, not simply a tool, for traditional basic education. This is because a computer CAN be used to teach literacy, basic mathematics, etc, and most importantly CAN be located nearer to the target audience than traditional resources (such as teachers).

Books are useless without literacy. Even for the literate, educational books are of questionable value without a suitable guide. This is a basic flaw in using a non-interactive medium for education. Only once you have learned to educate yourself (which is supposed to be the basic skill you learn at a University) can you be reasonably expected to learn from books. (This isn't to say that people don't, but rather that not all people do).

Regarding medical knowledge, I was referring to expert systems, not to medical texts. In a community where there is no doctor, an maybe only a nurse several kilometers away, an expert system can be a valuable aid.

Finally, having been taught by several crap teachers, I'll take a filmstrip any day. Educational broadcasts in developing nations are proving to have more success than formal education, because they reach a wider audience, and are presented in a clear and understandable fashion ... completely unlike a lesson from a crap teacher.

Re:Price problem

[cygnusx]

> You're American right ...?
No :-)

Seriously, is upliftment a real word? I always thought it to be one of those pseudo-words that were popular in some parts of the world -- if you look closely at the Google results, you'll find quite a number of the 33k results to be from pages written by Asians/Africans. I wouldn't be surprised if upliftment was popular in `local' english (for some values of local) but it's hardly a standard word. On the other hand, the OED has over the past few years been very inclusive in its approach to including words from across the globe (jihad from arabic(?), thali from hindi, and so on) so who knows, somebody could have included upliftment as well.

Encarta can't locate ``upliftment'' (though I know it's hardly the final answer); but then neither does the online cambridge dictionary or dict.org or dictionary.com (which searches through quite a few dictionaries). My old dogeared copy of Oxford Concise also doesn't have the word.

I don't have a subscription to the OED Online, so I can't go to the ultimate authority :-), but please, if you can give me a citation, I'd be very glad (contact info here).

This is stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

What this company (and a lot of others) fail to realize is that the market for hi-tech devices isn't there until more basic needs are met. This goes for pretty much all third-world nations. There's no point in providing people with new technology when the "old" technology - indoor plumbing, running (clean) water, etc. isn't available to everyone yet. Solve the basic problems first, and only *then* try to sell them computers.

too expensive

[bigpat]

I think $200 is still too expensive to be of much use to craftsman and farmers. And what happens when one of these things breaks and you lose all your inventory information or records of who owes you what? I think paper and pencil is probably a much better use of people's time. People should be taught how to use computers in schools, but it does them a disservice to tell them they really need these machines. I fear this is just another way big companies wish to tell people how to live their lives and have gotten the intelectuals to prmote their agendas.

Reminds me of the big chemical companies promoting pesticides in the third world thus putting entire populations and countries into debt.

Don't fall for this crap. If it is a choice between a computer and a cleaner water supply, then go for the water.

Re:too expensive

[Twylite]

You're absolutely right: $200 is far too expensive. But...

A pencil and paper only assist if you are either literate, or able to receive instruction. Computers, on the other hand, can teach literacy. This has huge potential: (in Africa) many people can't take the time to attend literacy classes (which may involve walking 15km or more). There are also a lack of resources to sustain ongoing training.

Between a computer and cleaner water, sure, go for the cleaner water. But first consider some things: (1) in many places the water is sufficiently clean or at least not a health risk to the population (whereas it may be a risk to a Western visitor who is not accustomed to the local bacteria); (2) without education, most people don't know enough about the importance of clean water and basic sanitation, which in itself is the greatest threat to natural supplies of clean water.

Reminds me of the big chemical companies promoting pesticides in the third world thus putting entire populations and countries into debt. Supplying cheap(ish) computers is subtly different from supplying engineered toxins which solve your problem for a year or two but poison the environment so that only related products from the same supplier will allow food to grow.

Re:too expensive

[bigpat]

yeah, a computer tax sounds like a real good idea for the poor.

If the government sees that these would be good for it's beaurocracy or good to put in schools as a better way to teach kids and transmit information, but don't call this computing for the poor. It just isn't.

Real Computing for the poor would empower people to manage their own information and business in a way that adds value to their lives.

This is nothing, but a marketing ploy which could do more harm than good. Hell, I wouldn't even give a poor person a computer given the huge waste of time and money it could be.

Re:too expensive

[Augusto]

> A pencil and paper only assist if you are either literate, or able to receive instruction. Computers, on the other hand, can teach literacy.

This little PDA doesn't seem like it would teach an indian farmer how to read, specially when it's main interface requires that you READ!

How about we send money for real teachers? There's an idea! :-/

Oh please this has nothing to do with poverty !!

[gelfling]

A Simputer used to get on the internet and check land records has nothing whatsoever to do with poor people and whether they will subsitute computers for food. This is for mid level people, probably state employees who are sent out to do a job, it's for urban shopkeepers who need to check something online or students who nead and educational tool. In India that's MILLIONS of people.

The idea that the vastness of India is nothing but barfoot rice farmers and water buffaloes is frankly, insulting.

Well....

[idfrsr]

This is certainly not overly surprising.
Trying to get money for development aid is hard enough, getting money together bring comps to rural towns is low on the priority scale when food, shelter and disease are also at issue.

Doesn't mean we can't keep trying though....

Enough with the stereotypes!

[Archie Steel]

Not everyone in India is a farmer - in fact it is one of the booming IT market among poorer nations. I went to India 14 years ago, and when a friend of mine who went there recently sent me photos, I was astounded to see the number of "Internet" and "e-mail" signs in the streets. Things have evolved so fast over there! You see, India is trying to go from an agrarian/industrial society to a digital one. In fact, a lot of Western companies outsource some of their coding to India. It seems Indians have a cultural knack for programming and mathematics.

If they feel like they need computers, then they need computers. The first world trying to decide what the third world needs has rarely worked, like trying to sell heavy farming equipment to people used to work their fragile soil with animal-powered equipment. Since it cost so much to maintain and repair, these expensive agricultural machines often end up collecting dust. In this particular case, I think recycling older computers (i.e. Pentium I and II) and giving them away to poorer nations which want them is a great idea. After all, they are the ones most aware of what their needs are...

Re:Enough with the stereotypes!

[Archie Steel]

Yes, it's probably true that for the farmers (who still make up 80% of the population, IIRC) computers are not a basic necessity, and that they are only part of the infrastructure. My point was, however, that we cannot decide what indeed they do need or want. Likewise, VCRs and TVs are not essential commodities, and yet they are ubiquitous in India (though not every family owns one). I'm sure having half a dozen computers for each village would prove to be useful, if only to keep abreast of local and national news, as well as help stay in touch with expatriates through e-mail and generally serve as an educational tool for children. As a recent experiment showed, even Delhi slum kids can learn to use a computer by themselves...In the modern world, knowing how to use a computer is becoming as important as knowing how to read (notice the expression "computer-literate"). Would you say that these farmers don't need to know how to read? Certainly it is not necessary for their livelihood - but as human beings it can only help to widen their horizons.

Computing for the poor an oxymoron?

[greensquare]

I just can't buy it.

I don't believe that this simputer effort even makes sense. Their are a lot of people here in USA that could afford a computer if they needed or wanted one, but don't have one, because they are not necessary.

It is hoped that the villagers who would use a shared simputer could afford to buy their own $2 smart card. How will those same villagers be able to afford the $5 worth of batteries that this thing is going to burn through 2 or 3 times a week, or even daily under heavy use?

What problem is the the the simputer going to solve for the poor Indian? Balance his checkbook? address book? Notepad? calculator? calendar? Surf the net on a QVGA screen? ( is their a phone? ) spreadsheet? database? email?

I can't see it..

]

Re:Computing for the poor an oxymoron?

[Twylite]

Computers are, surprisingly, less necessary in an environment where there is a higher literacy rate. Computers, unlike books or pencil and paper, can teach literacy. This is probably the most critical application in underdeveloped countries.

As for the problems it will solve: #1. Communication. This is far less obvious that it may seem, but many poor people spend an enormous amount of their annual income on communication, primarily to stay in contact with loved ones who have moved to cities (in search of an income / better living). It is painfully obvious that e-mail is orders of magnitude cheaper than long-distance phone calls; something that many "operators" take their cut for along the line (most often an enterprising shop owner pays ridiculous bribes to get a telephone installed, and then passes that cost along to the consumers ...).

Access to knowledge bases is also important. Medical knowledge is often sorely lacking in rural areas. For literate adults, a source of educational information is also important.

Technology can be used to improve quality of life, not just as a passtime for the rich.

Sim-Puter woes

[El_Smack]

The really do have troubles.
First, a tornado hit the factory. Then the workers rioted because local taxes are so high. As soon as that got fixed, the earthquake hit. What could possibly happen next, an alien invasion?!?!

Re:Food, Clothing and Shelter

[Archie Steel]

If you just keep supplying them with the basic necessities, you're not giving them a way out of poverty. If you can provide them with the tools to participate in a booming digital market (in South-East Asia, anyway), then you've done more than help them survive: you've given them a future.

India is becoming a digital nation, with more and more Western companies outsourcing some of their coding needs there. If people in India feel like they need more computers, then we should believe them. Acting otherwise would be paternalistic, to say the least.

Gates Charity Foundation

[Salsaman]

Hmmm...isn't this just the kind of thing Gates's charity foundation should be supporting ?

Oh, but of course, this thing will run Linux, and we can't be helping people like that, can we.

Plain Insulting..some of these comments are..

[cOdEgUru]

Ok people, Lets get the friggin facts straight.

Despite what Western media and half of what Texas believes, India is not swarmed with people deprived of their basic needs. Although there are still parts of the country where people are under poverty, there are parts of the country where the community is much advanced. Heck! the state that I am originally from (look it up on National Geographic - as "Kerala" was named as the one of the best 50 places to visit), the literacy rate is 100%. Can any other place in the world claim the same ?

Rants aside, the Simputer was intended to help Govt employees, and employees of other corporations who had to send these people out to the remote areas of the country to educate and to help these people. You cant send them out to the far corners of the state with a notebook and a pen. You need them to have access to information, the same information that you would ultimately provide to the people who never had it. Understandably, food and clothing and a roof above your head are the basic amenities.

So please, if you really wanna know more about this country that you are so ignorant about, take a trip. Fsck the trip guides, ask someone who had been there, and take the untread path, and discover the heart of this beautiful country.

And while you are at it, dont miss out on my little South Indian state, learn more about it here

Re:Plain Insulting..some of these comments are..

[pgpckt]

Heck! the state that I am originally from (look it up on National Geographic - as "Kerala" was named as the one of the best 50 places to visit), the literacy rate is 100%. Can any other place in the world claim the same ?

Vatican City, a.k.a. The Holy See, immediatly comes to mind. See here.

Re:Plain Insulting..some of these comments are..

[RoshanCat]

Ok people, Lets get the friggin facts straight.

Yep lets do that shall we?. If a country has more than 70% living in poverty conditions, it is considered to be poor. 10% borders an exception than a rule. Just because there are rich people living in Somalia, Ethiopia doesn't mean those countries are not poor.

It also helps to check the median salaries of various countries, before shooting someone's mouth off.

Also literacy means poeple can recognize certain symbols as certain sounds. It Doesn't mean people will actually read books are even get an education.

100% literacy is used only for govt employees to get a raise or boast during their appraisal. It doesn't mean a squat if they dont utilise it.

Kerala could be a beautiful state, so are thousands of other states around this world

Fighting FUD with FUD is defintely not a solution

Cheers,
Roshan

Re:Plain Insulting..some of these comments are..

[TrumpetPower!]

Blockquoth the cOdEgUru:

Heck! the state that I am originally from (look it up on National Geographic - as "Kerala" was named as the one of the best 50 places to visit), the literacy rate is 100%. Can any other place in the world claim the same ?

Interestingly enough, Cuba can. According to the CIA, the total population literacy is 95.7%

Cuba is exactly the sort of place I'd expect the Simputer would do wonderfully. Many of its citizens have close ties with Americans--Americans with money. Education is one of the few things the Cuban government got right--very right. (Their medical system isn't that bad. What it lacks in sophistication and material supplies it make up with truly universal coverage with a strong emphasis on preventative measures, or true health maintenance.) Cubans have the skills to put computing to good use and the potential access to computers through those who escaped to America.

Now, all we need is to lift the embargo....

b&

P.S. Communisim is terrible. The Cuban people deserve a representative government and a leader other than Castro. Heck, even true Communisim would be a huge step up from what they have now. That the Cuban people have done as well as they have is a testament to their strength. Lifting the embargo would go a long ways towards destabilizing the Castro regime to the point where a replacement is practical. b&

Re:Plain Insulting..some of these comments are..

[cOdEgUru]

Interestingly,

Kerala were the only state in India who had a communist govt soon after independence.

I believe Communists were ruling the state even before they arrived in Cuba.

I am not flaming here, but I believe the literacy being 100% had a lot to do with having Communists in power. Basically because, when they first came in to power, all they had were the grassroots movement and empowering them was the first thing the communist party did. I know shit happened from then on (Communists went the capitalist way), but in the beginning they were really about freedom of choice and power to the people.

Re:Plain Insulting..some of these comments are..

[Dahan]

Despite what Western media and half of what Texas believes, India is not swarmed with people deprived of their basic needs. Although there are still parts of the country where people are under poverty, there are parts of the country where the community is much advanced.

Oh, good going there... try to fight stereotypes with some of your own, huh? Despite what you believe, Texas is not full of ignorant hicks. In any case, your first sentence doesn't necessarily follow from your second. 35% of Indians are below the poverty line. And with a population of about 1 billion, that's 350 million people in poverty. Sure, parts of the country is quite advanced, but that doesn't change the fact that a significant percentage, and an even more significant number of the population live in poverty.

... the literacy rate is 100%. Can any other place in the world claim the same ?

How about Denmark, Finland, Norway, and Sweden? (Okay, so Sweden is "only" 99%). Those are all estimates though; I doubt if the literacy rate is really 100% in any country (or state).

P.S. Speaking of facts, the Census of India says that the literacy rate in Kerala is 91%. Very good, certainly, but a bit short of your 100% claim.

Re:Plain Insulting..some of these comments are..

[cOdEgUru]

Nice to see someone who shares the same passion. Is there something I can help you with ? Getting more of that wonderful unique music might be one way. Or sending a couple of that hot and heavy recipes might be another.

But then again, you might be another Keralite for all I know :)

Re:Simputer is not for the Avg Joe Yankee

[evilempireinc]

you actually bring up a good point. While the creators seem to have put in a lot of thought into how to get funding and distrubute it to rural locations, what about literacy? I know it is supposed to have an intuitive user interface, but what if the users are entirely illiterate? While the computer might be cheap and give them access to the web it won't do them much good if they can't read it

some clarifications

[tanveer1979]

I belong to the same sity as the simputer, and have been in touch with the progress. Firstly i think a lot of slashdotters are confusing the meaning of third world countries. A third world does country like india does not mean that everybody lives barefoot and goes hungry. Basically the concept here is that for the middle class ie people haveing one car 2 kids who goto school and comfortable life *cannot* afford PDA's because when we convert Dollers to Rupees 1000 Dollars menas 50000 Rs. In India somebody earning 50000 Rs/pm is in the upper class. So currently not only for poor even for middle class and cooperative societies that is steep. The $200 simputer will basically enable cooprative societies to manage their records, order stuff etc. Currently in some places, in the rural areas the internet is used to send request to companies to order products For example in a village in andhra when the farmers have a sufficent quantity of milk they send a email that the vehicle can come and pick up the stocks. This is a very rudimentry examply cheap computer will enable such things on a larger scale. Also it will benifit students who have the basic necessities but cannot afford such things. This is a small step. Maybe this will lead to cheaper computing that will be good for all, developed or underdeveloped

Why not sell a collector's addition?

[cpuffer_hammer]

A low serial number, special case, or cover at a premium price. I would consider paying more to have an early one and to help lower the price. The extra cash could go to lowering the price in the Indian market, and by getting the early runs out of the way the price could also drop. Also experienced Linux users could be more helpful in the programming debug process.

There may be setbacks to the Simputer, but...

[altgrr]

...this article from the BBC details a different approach to the problem of taking computers to the masses - make the internet accessible through one person, who goes round villages on a motorbike with a laptop which has some pre-downloaded web pages at the villagers' request.

It seems a strange concept: you might think that the things the article mentions the service being used for (local news, crop prices, government forms etc) were already catered for through newspapers and the postal system. But then I don't live out in a rural village in India, so I wouldn't know.

What both this and the Simputer project show, is that there is demand for such a service, regardless of whether or not we, who are totally isolated from the situation, think there is.

Re:Call for more charity programs...

[TibbonZero]

Didn't mean to place banners on their computer... I meant placing banners on their website (look up if you aren't subscribed..)

Not gonna happen

[Skarstedt]

While a noble initiative, this won't work. "Rural" folks don't need computers. They've gotten along without them just fine before now, why mess with them? As far as I know, there is no killer app that would make an Indian subsistence farmer ache to have access to a computer. When a killer app comes along, some enterprising company will then fill the market need. And there will be no need for a group of academics to shove the things down "Rural" folk's throats.

More path of resistance

[r_j_prahad]

There are other problems that will happen as Simputer wretsles its way into market. First, Microsoft is very popular in India, not important why. Second, and much important, is the problem of corruption. To reach the sales goals for a $200 system, Simputer are going to have to have political friends, and that I just cannot see happening. Corruption is so ingrained in Indian government there are even special laws to address it. Microsoft is not unique, just uniquely wealthy.

Open source hardware design? Lateral thinking?

[pieterh]

Perhaps this is redundant, given that the 'standard PC' is pretty much a public standard, but perhaps another way of building cheap computers is to evolve a good open source hardware design that can be assembled from cheap components, and which GNU/Linux will be guaranteed to run on. The economies of scale will then work to keep costs down.
We should be aiming at a $100 computer that approaches the power of a P100.
To all those people who say: give people clean water and education before gadgets, I'd point out that information equals money, and computers used in the right way (like cars, mobile phones, capital, property etc.) are an excellent way of increasing real standards of wealth.
Lastly, has anyone tried to run anything other than games on something like a Cybiko? It seems to be an excellent (robust and cheap) platform for small hand-held computing.

Original Intent

[pagercam2]

I remeber reading the original Simputer stuff last year and that had very different goals than those discussed now. People here are discussing if a single poor farmer could afford such a device and would it make his/her life measurable better? The orginal concept as I understood it was that there would be one simputer per town and a farmer could get goverment aid, file paperwork, market (as in vegeatble) prices, receieve email (as in free communications as opposed to pay post) etc....

In short it was a common shared resource to connect small villages and help provide goverment services that didn't make it out to rural locations. It might start as one per town and as it bacame more usefull (demand raised) it would be one per neighborhood, one per street etc.... . These seem like very realizable goals and it would be either the combined resources of a town or the goverment that would pay (~$200) for the Simputer to enable services and communication with said town.

This seems like a reasonable goal and one that would actually help small rural villages and with time increase to helping a wide portion not only of the poor or rural but be a standard community device. It would be helpful to any community, even in the US or other "rich" countries. It might replace the phonebook at a payphone, so that the phone listings are always upto date easier to use as it could assume that you are looking for the Bill Smith in this neighborhood rather than all the Bill Smiths in NYC. It could provide info about local stores, resturaunts, movie times etc... or access to communications for the homeless for those traveling (most people want to get email while traveling but don't want to carry 7 lb laptop, 3 lb charger, ......). The use has the best computer technology but most of that is in the form of desktops at homes of those well off, when you're out shopping, vactaioning or whatever, that desktop doesn't get you much, so a public data terminal would be a boost to every segment of the population. My countries in the world have email cafe's in every town, I haven't seen more than a couple anywhere in the US, I'm sure there are out there, but not enough to be able to assume that I could get info while not a t home.

The local phone companies need to start offering some sort of digital payphone so that I can keep in touch or lookup movie times after dinner etc.... I'd pay $.25 to $.50 just to know if I got new email, there is a huge market out there, everyone is just to afraid to put something in a shared area for fear that it will get vandalized.

Open up Simputer Commercial Licensing to Low End

[DonWallace]

The Simputer is different enough from established computer platforms that I believe it will require some grass roots efforts to popularize it. I think that allowing some hobbyist electronics companies to produce a Simputer kit would help proliferate the device and probably would cross-fertilize the initiative to develop the computer for poor countries.

In particular, the licensing terms from simputer.org are unfavorable to very small commercial operations: Any commercial exploitation of the Specifications (whether Simputer or Simputerized) involves a nominal one time payment to the Trust. The payment will be $25,000 for developing countries and $250,000 for developed countries.

So, what about a smaller kit company in a developed nation, such as Jameco or others? They're almost certainly not going to spend $250K for a Simputer license. But if kit vendors were allowed open access to the plans, specifications, PC board layouts, etc. we could see enough hobbyists building and using Simputers to create a small revolution.

At least, the royalty should be graduated according to the company's current size and profitability.

My point: sometimes, drawing a hard line in the sand between "noble" non commercial use and "lowly" commercial exploitation is silly, and I can think of innumerable examples in the world where lack of profit motive and strong armed egalitarianism ruined a market.

Possible applications are endless...really

[Loge]

Everytime I think about possible applications for the Simputer, I am reminded of this press release issued a few years ago:

The Global Village

KABINDA, ZAIRE--In a move IBM offices are hailing as a major step in the company's ongoing worldwide telecommunications revolution, M'wana Ndeti, a member of Zaire's Bantu tribe, used an IBM global uplink network modem yesterday to crush a nut.

Ndeti, who spent 20 minutes trying to open the nut by hand, easily cracked it open by smashing it repeatedly with the powerful modem.

"I could not crush the nut by myself," said the 47-year-old Ndeti, who added the savory nut to a thick, peanut-based soup minutes later. "With IBM's help, I was able to break it." Ndeti discovered the nut-breaking, 28.8 V.34 modem yesterday, when IBM was shooting a commercial in his southwestern Zaire village. During a break in shooting, which shows African villagers eagerly teleconferencing via computer with Japanese schoolchildren, Ndeti snuck onto the set and took the modem, which he believed would serve well as a "smashing" utensil.

IBM officials were not surprised the longtime computer giant was able to provide Ndeti with practical solutions to his everyday problems. "Our telecommunications systems offer people all over the world global networking solutions that fit their specific needs," said Herbert Ross, IBM's director of marketing. "Whether you're a nun cloistered in an Italian abbey or an Aborigine in Australia's Great Sandy Desert, IBM has the ideas to get you where you want to go today."

According to Ndeti, of the modem's many powerful features, most impressive was its hard plastic casing, which easily sustained several minutes of vigorous pounding against a large stone. "I put the nut on a rock, and I hit it with the modem," Ndeti said. "The modem did not break. It is a good modem."

Ndeti was so impressed with the modem that he purchased a new, state-of- the-art IBM workstation, complete with a PowerPC 601 microprocessor, a quad-speed internal CD-ROM drive and three 16-bit ethernet networking connectors. The tribesman has already made good use of the computer system, fashioning a gazelle trap out of its wires, a boat anchor out of the monitor and a crude but effective weapon from its mouse.

"This is a good computer," said Ndeti, carving up a just-captured gazelle with the computer's flat, sharp internal processing device. "I am using every part of it. I will cook this gazelle on the keyboard." Hours later, Ndeti capped off his delicious gazelle dinner by smoking the computer's 200-page owner's manual.

IBM spokespeople praised Ndeti's choice of computers. "We are pleased that the Bantu people are turning to IBM for their business needs," said company CEO William Allaire. "From Kansas City to Kinshasa, IBM is bringing the world closer together. Our cutting-edge technology is truly creating a global village."

Re:Cellphones lessen search costs

[foobar104]

There's no argument that this is true. But I still don't see how it makes any more than an insignificant-- in the grand scheme-- difference in the lives of low-wage, unskilled or marginally skilled workers. Same with a computer. You can hand 'em out for free on the street corner, and it won't do a think to help people.

I think the whole "simputer" concept is distressingly close to a cargo-cult ritual. Rich people have computers, therefore we will build computers of our own, so we can also be rich! God you takem life bilong mi, and all that.

Re:Dumbass!!!

[uncoveror]

My point is that they should have done a needle exchange, or at least given instructions for sanitizing needles with bleach and/or rubbing alcohol. There were already several free condom programs for anyone who wanted them. The program ignored the real problem with IV drug use, and was just a photo op for a grandstanding politician.