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Considerations for an Oversea Move?

Posted by Cliff on from the going-where-your-career-takes-you dept.

An Anonymous Coward asks: "I'm currently working as an 'IT technician' (lowly tech support position) in the southern United States, but I am considering a move to the U.K. to be with a significant other. What's the best way to gather information like the U.K. technology job market, immigration laws, cost of living, housing arrangements, and of course, how I would move my belongings? Sites like this would be most helpful." While the link that is provided is fairly comprehensive, other sources of information, both referential and anecdotal would be appreciated.

38 of 64 comments (clear)

  1. significant other by SN74S181 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I am considering a move to the U.K. to be with a significant other.

    If you met her in a chat room, make sure s/he's really, really significant before moving overseas.

  2. Escape artist by Diet+Rapture · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Lots of info at Escape Artist.

    --
    Stop eating my hands.
  3. Ask /. by Wrexen · · Score: 3, Funny

    While the link that is provided is fairly comprehensive, other sources of information, both referential and anecdotal would be appreciated

    And since this is Ask Slashdot after all, let's just throw "wild speculation and unfounded rumors" in the mix

    Karma.Burn(3);

  4. Moving from the U.S. to the U.K. by Mordant · · Score: 3, Informative

    is a move in the wrong direction, pal. Confiscatory taxes, grossly over-regulated work environment - and that's -if- you can get a work-permit. It's very, very difficult for foreign nationals to get work-permits in the U.K., especially in the high-tech field.

    1. Re:Moving from the U.S. to the U.K. by sql*kitten · · Score: 2

      and that's -if- you can get a work-permit. It's very, very difficult for foreign nationals to get work-permits in the U.K

      It's easy, so long as you can get into France first. The next step is to throw away any identity documents you have (you may be able to sell them). Now make your way to Sangatte, where there is free accomodation and food while you make repeated attempts to smuggle yourself into the UK by stowing away on the Eurostar. Don't worry about the police, the French police don't care and will let you break into freight yards without lifting a finger, and the British police are so hamstrung by red tape that they won't be able to stop you without filling in a dozen forms first. When you arrive in the UK, pretend that you don't speak English. Pretty soon, you will get an apartment, free money from the taxpayer, everything you could want. Once you're sure about your SO, just get married, come out as an American, and you're all set.

  5. Moving by isorox · · Score: 5, Informative

    I live in the UK, and my parents have just moved to greece. I'm also researching where I can move to escape the oppresive police state that labour have us in.

    Moving your belongings though
    1) Forget your car, sell it. We drive on the left over here, and have right hand drive cars, not left hand.
    2) TV. It might work, but I doubt it. We use Pal. Get one over here. 28" widescreens are from £300 ($450) up. DVD players about £90 up ($140). Sky TV (multichannel) or cable arround the £40($60) per month charge. ADSL/Cable arround £30 ($45)pm.

    Make sure you get a region free dvd player otherwise your region 1 disks wont work in our region 2 players.

    Digital terrestial TV is taking off here too.

    Your Computer will work, but SWITCH THE VOLTAGE before you plug in! We use 230VAC, not 110. You'll need new power cables.

    Try this one too
    http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/ 06/19 17250&mode=nested&tid=99

    1. Re:Moving by nathanm · · Score: 2
      2) TV. It might work, but I doubt it. We use Pal.
      I guarantee his TV won't work. There are some multi-system TVs sold, mostly in US military exchanges, but 99.999% of TVs sold in the US are NTSC only.

      Of course, you could bring your TV & only watch videos on it. Then you wouldn't even need to pay for a TV license. That's what I did when I lived in the UK.
  6. culture shock by gruntvald · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would assume you've visited the place already, but if you haven't, you'll need to. Despite a similar language, culturally it's chalk & cheese. I lived there all my life and found it oppressive. I prefer the US considerably.

  7. the hardest part by wompser · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm currently considering something similar. The hardest part I've found is finding the right job. Why would a company look into canidates from overseas when there are so many availible locally? Definatly not easier to interview non-local canidates. So do you just take that leap of faith, spend a bunch of money to move there and then look for something when you land?

    As I recall from when I lived in Germany as a high school student, in order to keep his work visa, my dad had to go into immigration and basically prove that he was the only one qualified to do his job. (i.e. no German could do the job that he was doing, therefore he was not competing with German citizens for the position he was doing) Is this common in European Countries?

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    .....
    1. Re:the hardest part by Usquebaugh · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's common in every country, espically the UK & US

  8. Cost of living varies drastically by Tomah4wk · · Score: 3, Informative

    As a uk resident, i know that the cost of living varies hugely across the country. The north and west of england (including wales and scotland) are fairly reasonable, but the south east (where the jobs are) is VERY expensive. In your sort of job you wouldnt even be able to consider owning a property in or around the London area. If you look at the bbc's website (www.bbc.co.uk/news) there have been many stories in the press recently about this.
    Hope this helps a little, and good luck with your significant other :)
    Tom

    1. Re:Cost of living varies drastically by larien · · Score: 2
      Yuppers; however, Scotland isn't universally cheap; two of the most expensive places to live are Aberdeen (because of North Sea oil) and Edinburgh (it's the capital and the recent devlolved parliment has increased demand). Most of rural Scotland is pretty cheap, so you should be able to find something.

      As Tomah4wk says, London/SE is still the most expensive, although just going West or North of the M25 usually gets you into a saner cost bracket.

  9. How to move your stuff: by PD · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Turn all of it into something easier to carry, such as money. A garage sale is your best bet, or even E-bay. If you're sentimental about a 900 lb. antique wardrobe or something like that, then give it to a dear friend or relative who will keep it for you. When you get to England, you can turn all that money back into all the stuff that you want.

    --
    If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
    1. Re:How to move your stuff: by PD · · Score: 2

      Certainly you can't sell USED stuff and then buy NEW stuff in England. If you're selling USED stuff in the US, then you're going to have to get USED stuff in England. I bet you could come pretty close.

      --
      If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
  10. the biggest adjustment.... by kevin+lyda · · Score: 4, Funny

    i think the hardest part for me in moving from the usa to europe is the exposure to new ideas like democracy, real political debate and political representation for those on the left (no, not democrats or american liberals - they're called center right).

    --
    US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
  11. Experiences by yamla · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My experiences... ship the stuff you are planning to need in the foreign country as early as possible. They may claim six weeks for it to arrive but when we moved from England to Canada, it took more than six months.

    Take as little as possible. Forget most of your electronics. Forget anything big, like chairs or tables or the like. Ideally, you'd take a few items of clothing, a laptop, and some music CD's, buy pretty much the rest when you get there. Forget about taking your car. You likely will stop driving, anyway, once you get there.

    Cost of living in England is expensive. Make sure you have a job and make sure you have somewhere to live. Rent may be several times higher than you are currently paying... four to eight times more than you currently pay if you will be living in or around London, 2 - 4 times more elsewhere in England. Do not even think of going if you do not have a job lined up already.

    Get used to the rain. Be willing to accept that people tend to be much more grumpy in England (at least, compared to Canada). A friend of mine who tried moving to England described people as 'angry f*king c*nts' in England and she's not far off the mark.

    --

    Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
  12. Return Ticket by MountainLogic · · Score: 3, Funny

    Be sure to ask for a return tickst ;-)

  13. Duh by __past__ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about asking your significant other?

    --
    Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
  14. Finding a Job by skaffen42 · · Score: 2, Informative

    A good place to start looking for a job in the UK is on Jobserve. Another usefull site is Lester Associates. Although they specialize in people from commonwealth countries they can find you a job, help with tax information, visas, etc. so they are probably a good place to start. I used them a few years ago when I spent a year in London and have no complaints. Another usefull site is 1st Contact

    Managing a work permit is going to be tough. There are ways though. One possibility might be a student visa. IIRC there are some types of student visas that allow you to work 20 hours a week, so it might be a way to get some studying done while working on the side to pay the bills.

    Be prepared for the culture clash. They do things a lot differently there in the old world. It is worth it though. Even if you weren't going there to be with your significant other it would still be worth the experience of living in another country.

    Good luck...

    --
    People couldn't type. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this.
  15. How about non-european countries? by HyperbolicParabaloid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I lived in China for a year while in college, and my wife grew up in Arabia (her New Yorker father worked for the oil company there). We would love to spend some time over seas with our kids, but perhaps in an Asian or African country.
    Anybody have any experience/ideas for working in the rest of the world?

    --


    -------------------------
    A person of moderate zeal
  16. Doing something similar myself... by bscott · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I just married an Australian last month, and we got her a green card fairly quickly, but it was only after months of research, paperwork, and headaches that the actual filing went so smoothly... We'll begin working on my Australian visa shortly, as we want to travel back and forth freely rather than settle in one country or the other, and we both have careers which can be done essentially anywhere (but it's a lot more profitable in the USA, especially if you're earning US dollars and spending them down under!).

    The above is a whole series of stories unto itself, but other issues we're facing include:
    - climate changes. Depending on where you live in the USA, you may not have appropriate clothing for the UK; certainly, my Aussie wife is not yet fully prepared for my Colorado winters...
    - medical care. Australia's socialized medical system is efficient and user-friendly; and my wife is an asthmatic. We'll either have to get medical insurance here, or be prepared to drive to Canada whenever she needs more medications
    - pets. She has a dog, and we could bring him over but then he'd face months of quarantine if we wanted to take him back down under, which is unacceptable. So he'll have to stay with family while we're in the USA, and she misses him quite a lot. The UK has similar anti-rabies regulations on pets.
    - financial. Are you going to close your American credit card and bank accounts? If not, will they pay overseas postage to send you bills and statements? Do you have investments here that might be expensive to simply liquidate? Are you prepared to learn about your options and obligations under U.K. investment law, or can you afford professional help for all this?
    - there's others but I've been typing all day already

    It's a safe bet there's some online message group which can help you even more directly than /. - we found extremely helpful resources on Yahoo Groups, some of which seemed almost tailor-made for us. Don't accept an answer on anything really significant from just one person, as the information out there varies widely in quality... for example, we consulted lawyers and some friend-of-a-friend senior officials at the INS about immigration issues in this post-9/11 world, and learned a lot about the months and months of delays we were facing... then, during an online search, we discovered Direct Consular Filing - which nobody had told us about, for obvious reasons, 'cos it involves bypassing the INS entirely and simply filing your petition at the consulate. An expected 6-9 month wait turned into a 1-day process, but only after we'd gone through literally dozens of other "answers" to our overall question of "how can we do this quickly?"!

    --
    Perfectly Normal Industries
    1. Re:Doing something similar myself... by sql*kitten · · Score: 2

      Depending on where you live in the USA, you may not have appropriate clothing for the UK; certainly, my Aussie wife is not yet fully prepared for my Colorado winters...

      If you're in New York or New England, you'll have appropriate clothing for most of north-western Europe.

      medical care. Australia's socialized medical system is efficient and user-friendly; and my wife is an asthmatic. We'll either have to get medical insurance here, or be prepared to drive to Canada whenever she needs more medications

      You will be fine in the UK for emergency care, but you will definitely have to pay for dental and anything else.

      The UK has similar anti-rabies regulations on pets.

      We've no choice - blame the rabies-infested French!

      Are you going to close your American credit card and bank accounts? If not, will they pay overseas postage to send you bills and statements? Do you have investments here that might be expensive to simply liquidate? Are you prepared to learn about your options and obligations under U.K. investment law, or can you afford professional help for all this?

      I'm English and I've worked in the US and Europe. The financial side really depends on your bank, if it's some local operation (and by "local" I mean anything up to something the size of Barclays) then you're going to have to take care of setting up a new account, moving money and payments, etc, yourself. But if they're a global player like Citibank or HSBC (not the bit of HSBC that used to be Midland's high street operation) then it's much easier. Citibank, for example, will let you maintain parallel current accounts in difference currencies, move money between them without a commission, etc, and they have branches everywhere. Citibank branches look the same wherever you are, and they all speak English.

      The only thing you might need to watch out for is repatriating money - not sure how that works from a tax perspective. In all the countries I've worked in, I've always been paid directly to my accounts in London (in whatever currency) rather than opening a local account.

  17. Work Permits hard to get by Danious · · Score: 3, Informative
    If you're looking to go under the Work Permit system, you can almost forget about it. For a start, there's no Green Card or visa category allowing you to enter the country to look for work or move between jobs as you feel like it. The Work Permit is for a specific job offered at a specific employer at a specific location for a specific duration. Due to the downturn, the IT Contractors Association have recently convinced the government to tighten the fast-track regulations. Where as there used to be a generic list of job descriptions that qualified for automatic approval, it's now a hard-and-fast list of specific, top-end skills that the job must require before it gets approved. Otherwise, you have to go the long way round of proving that there's no-one in the whole of the UK and Europe who can do the job. I've yet to find an employer willing to spend the time and money when they can have their pick from off the street. The one ray of hope is the latest list still has "Network Specialist, NT/2K/UNIX", but this is more at a design and consulting level, not so much the admin level. You need either an IT degree, any degree plus 1 years experience, or 3 years experience. Full details at the work permits website. Note: currently Work Permits are free if the employer applies directly, but there are unscrupulous agencies out there who try to charge the employer an extra GBP2000 to do it for them, which tends to scare them away.

    You only need 1 job site in the UK, JobServe, as everyone advertises there. Be warned, though, the downturn has made for lean pickings.

    You can find the regulations for joining significant others at the Home Office, friends have done it and it does take time. You have to apply from outside the country. You can only join your partner and work if you are legally married, if you are unmarried but there is a legal reason you can't marry (i.e. previous marriage and not yet divorced), or if you are engaged to be married within 6 months (but then you can't work until you are). After 2 years together, you can apply for permanent status.

    Of course, if you happen to be qualified as a teacher or a nurse, they will pay for you to go there... The down side being the schools and health system are the scummy pits of hell, far, far worse than any call-centre or help desk you've ever been enslaved by.

  18. My experiences by Beltza · · Score: 2, Funny

    A few months ago I moved from The Netherlands to Spain, also to be with my S.O.
    I also used the internet to gather information about the best way to move, and I found tons of good quality sites. Unfortunately they are of little use for you, since my situation was completely different, but one might help you: I found the sites of the embassy's of great help. They gave more information than I expected: links to companies to ship your personal belongings, addresses of Dutch clubs in Spain, etc.
    As for moving, I decided to move as little stuff as possible and left most of my belongings in Holland. I can suggest the same to you! After all, how long ago did you buy that sofa?
    One last note: Before I moved over I first looked for a job. Having a job makes all the paperwork a lot easier to do!

    --
    Brain Tags |
  19. people in Britain by xiox · · Score: 2

    Just a couple of comments:

    o The rain - the weather in Britain is pretty variable, both in terms of location and time. East Anglia is almost arid from the rainfall point of view. It probably depends on where you come from whether you will like the weather. Quite a lot of people like the variability and seasonality. Spring and Autumn in Britain can be fantastic if the weather is good. Summer can be wonderful except when you get weeks when it keeps raining!

    o Grumpyness? It's just a bit of a culture clash. People here tend to not be so open to people they don't know and don't welcome personal questioning. Once you get to know someone they'll appear less grumpy. They may be taking some aspect of your personality badly (it works both ways), however here they wouldn't tell you what they don't like about you.

    1. Re:people in Britain by RobinH · · Score: 2

      People here tend to not be so open to people they don't know and don't welcome personal questioning. Once you get to know someone they'll appear less grumpy.

      What's even more funny is that even though the original post is comparing Britain and Canada, I can see a similar difference in attitudes between Canada and the United States. Being Canadian, I'm a bit taken aback when someone in the U.S. turns to me in an elevator and starts talking about how it's such a "blessed day" today. Also, perhaps a dozen times, I've had complete strangers (Americans) start complaining about "God damned foreigners" and how they're ruining America. I always find that one quite amusing: "Where y'all from anyway?" (smile)

      I don't mean to say all my experiences are like that, but overall, I find that Rick Mercer had it right when he said "Americans are very generous, both with their money, and their opinions." To us 'foreigners', it might seem rude, but as you've pointed out, it's really just a cultural clash.

      --
      "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    2. Re:people in Britain by ScuzzMonkey · · Score: 2

      See, and even your story is funny to me, because in my travels north of the border, I've found Canadians to generally be much more personable and likely to start up a conversation than most people in the States (though even there, depends on where you are... Seattle is a lot friendlier than DC, for example :) ).

      Americans are much more likely to be up-front and open about their opinions on more controversial topics, though, I'll give you that. The Canadians I've met personally are pretty much universally just plain NICE. They don't bring up topics that are likely to be controversial. We have a whole branch of the family that lives up around Edmonton, and I always look forward to reunions. I guess they must at the same time be dreading them, eh? ;)

      --
      No relation to Happy Monkey
  20. Were your parents or grandparents from Europe? by rpjs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If so your immigration hassles to the UK could be eased as you may qualify for dual citizenship. Ireland is the best know: if you have a parent, grandparent or even in certain circumstances great-grandparent born there (north or south) you will almost certainly qualify for Irish citizenship. My girlfriend is American but had a grandmother from Northern Ireland so once she'd got her Irish passprt she was able to move here to the UK under the rights granted to European Union citizens under the Treaty of Rome and work with next to no problems (well, she's still trying to get an NI number - SSN equiv - but you don't need one to work here, though it makes it slightly easier). As an irish citizen she can even vote in all our elections!

    I believe some other European countries have similar deals to Ireland, so it may be worth checking your family tree. BTW, if this does apply to you, don't beleive anyone who tells you that the US does not allow dual citizenship and that you could lose your US citizenship - the old rules that meant that were declared unconstitutional and repealed years ago.

    If you can't use that route, be aware that the UK is greatly liberalising work permit rules for skilled workers, and there's still an IT skills shortage in many places here.

    1. Re:Were your parents or grandparents from Europe? by will_die · · Score: 2, Informative

      The US does not recognize dual citizenship, as far as the US is concered you are or you are not a US citizen. So, just watchout what passport you use when you travel into and out of the US, beyond that it is no problem. Now taxes are another story, as a US citizen you are expected to pay taxes no matter where you live or earn your money. However the US has aggreements with most countries over taxes and who you have to pay them too. Just read the requirements, you can info on them on most expat sites.

  21. Re:And forget about broadband.... by isorox · · Score: 2

    But then again my parents used to live 15 miles west of manchester, and had cable or ADSL.

  22. Move memories, not things! by bluGill · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Take some photos of the US, your house, your yard, all the things you have, along with neighbors. People live a different life in Europe, and you won't be able to live the standard American life even if you want to. (there are good and bad points on both sides) You might however be able to find some advanatges to life over here that you can introduce to them. For the most part though take pictures. When I was in europe they were shocked to learn I just bought a house on one acre of land, and didn't consider that much at all, I wished I had pictures to show them how I lived.

    Don't forget pictures of people. You won't get to see your nephew much anymore, so you have to live with pictures and letters. Remember professionals can often get better pictures of famious objects than you can, so make your pictures personal in nature. "This was my house in the US" is intereting. "This is the biggest building in my state, but I've never been in it" is not intereting. (IF you worked there it would be)

    Sell as much as you can, ship the rest. You might love that table you have in the dining room, but if it is too big to fit in your UK apartment what good is shipping it? (I don't know the UK, so this is just an example). Give things away too. You can buy the basic needs of life anywhere.

    The rule should be setimental value first, and avoid shipping the rest.

    I hate to say this, but please make sure you are serious about the relationship. You would hate to get there, break up after a few weeks, and discover everything about the UK no annoys you because it reminds you of the failed relationship. (If you are even allowed to stay) This is personal, any only you can be sure.

  23. Re:people in Canada / U.S. by RobinH · · Score: 2

    Americans are much more likely to be up-front and open about their opinions on more controversial topics, though, I'll give you that. The Canadians I've met personally are pretty much universally just plain NICE. They don't bring up topics that are likely to be controversial.

    This is certainly true in general, and explains why in Canada, Americans are considered "arrogant". However, individual differences are far greater than these cultural tendencies, so there are still many arrogant Canadians, and many nice Americans. Gotta love diversity!

    I guess they must at the same time be dreading them, eh?

    I doubt it... I'm pretty sure that blood is still thicker than borders. (and ours is a pretty thin border) ;-)

    --
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
  24. Confiscatory taxes by Rupert · · Score: 2

    Compared with the 47% taxes we pay on my wife's income (US, FICA etc., & MN)?

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    E_NOSIG
    1. Re:Confiscatory taxes by Rupert · · Score: 2

      Wow. That's one well-paid paper route.

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      E_NOSIG
  25. Re:Don't bother - no jobs here! by biglig2 · · Score: 2

    If you look at UK "find a house" web sites they usually have indications of average house prices in each region. Try http://fish4.co.uk to start with - they have job searches too.

    I have to agree with A/C, the IT job market is rather flat in the UK at the moment.

    --
    ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
  26. High Speed by macdaddy · · Score: 2

    Make sure her area can get high speed Internet access. If not, dump the hillbilly.

  27. Here are some sites by StrawberryFrog · · Score: 2

    As someone who recently moved to the UK (from Africa) and has now found work (after much nerve-wracking searching), I wish you good luck - you'll need it; it's not easy out there. Nope, not at all.

    Jobstats (www.jobstats.co.uk) tracks 'the current state of the UK computing job market' by counting techie-wanted-ads placed online per week.

    It's not totally accurate, but it's an adequite index of demand for IT people. It's not a pretty picture right now. The 'the U.K. technology job market' is bleak.

    My advice to you is that if you have a job, seriously consider holding onto it for 6 months or so, until things pick up (as we assume that they must) by jobstats measures.

    http://www.jobserve.co.uk/ is the site to browse and find jobs. It seems to have cornered over 80% of the online jobs market. If you do find a UK IT job online, chances are it will be via this site.

    --

    My Karma: ran over your Dogma
    StrawberryFrog

  28. Re:TV License by nathanm · · Score: 2
    If you have a TV and you're the true law abiding citizen that every slashdotter is, you need a TV license ( £100ish p/year) in the UK, even if you just watch videos on it.
    I was told I didn't since I had a NTSC only TV, not even capable of watching the PAL system the UK broadcasts.
    Oh, and you're not allowed to shoot people if they break into your house. Apparently.
    This varies state to state in the US. Thankfully, here in MN, I can shoot anyone that breaks into my house, then ask questions later.