John Gilmore Sues Ashcroft et al. for Freedom to Travel

ChTom writes "John Gilmore initiated a federal suit today in CA Northern District against Ashcroft, et al, challenging the air travel ID requirement: http://cryptome.org/freetotravel.htm (Mr. Gilmore is a businessman, civil libertarian, and philanthropist. He was the fifth employee of Sun Microsystems, an early author of open source software, and co-creator of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Cypherpunks, the DES Cracker, and the Internet's "alt" newsgroups. He serves as a director on several for-profit and nonprofit boards. )"

Comments

Bad timing

[WTC Survivor]

Before September 11th, back when I still supported the ACLU, I would have strongly supported this action. After all, airlines were relatively safe from terrorism, despite their poor security; the ID requirement was useless. But now, everything has changed. Airports need to be locked down so that fanatics cannot use our devices of mass transportation to knock down any more buildings. And to that end, preserving the I.D. requirement at airports is necessary.

Fortunately, Mr. Gilmore is inadvertently doing a huge favor for the entire nation. By publicly challenging a very important airline security policy, he is allowing the courts (hopefully not the wacky "anti-God" court in California) to set a precedent allowing airlines to protect themselves from terrorists. And that will help us all be safer in our offices and in our planes.

WTC Survivor

with comments like this:

[Maeryk]

okay.. so I screwed the last one up.

Wiht comments like "Mr Gilmore challenges every secret regulation"... what does he EXPECT is going to happen?

Guess what.. its illegal to require you to give your social security number in most instances.. but it is NOT illegal to refuse service to someone who wont give it. Your "giving" is voluntary, not forced. Their service to you is voluntary as well.

Gilmore is looking more and more like a nutter. If (and the press release isnt real clear on this) he thinks this a government conspiracy, then suing them isnt going to help. However, it seems he has run afoul of airline policy, not governmental policy. More than half the flying I do is into and out of Canada. I am totally accustomed to whipping out drivers license AND birth certificate to get in OR out of both. (Ironically, it is easier for me to get into Canada, than it is to get back into the US most times.. and Im an american citizen, born and bred, and I live in the US).

Gilmore is just trying for publicity, as far as I can tell.. the airline is no more "required" to service him than I am if someone shows up at my front door and says "wash my car".

ON the other hand, the airlines are the ONLY industry in the world that can operate the way they do, and treat customers the way they do, and get away with it. I still wonder how they survived this long. Delays, cancelled flights, rude treatment of customers (and treatment like so many cattle) non-refund of messed up tickets.. but they are the only game in town, they know it, and there isnt much you can do about it.

(Especially if you are a senator, and can hop military or private transport anywhere you want, and avoid commercial airlines totally, while still "overseeing" them).

This suit will fail. He will be laughed at. Lots.

Maeryk

ID NOT Just to Prevent Ticket Exchanges

[Myriad]

Passanger ID is used for more than just preventing ticket exchanges:

Accurate passanger manifests are important in identifing the dead after a crash - and for security. Not necessarily before the flight, but after as well.

Passanger manifests can be used to track people on the run (via their real names or known alias's - alias's which have corresponding ID, making it harder to change randomly) and to identify person(s) after a flight ("I was in seat 34c and the passanger who was two seats ahead of me was the person who..."). And if a known person is being sought out for whatever reason, the chances of them getting busted at an airport are much higher than, say, a bus terminal. Which could be good, it's hard to get too far by bus.

Event reconstruction is another important aspect. Say someone murders their wife and flees with the kid, having a record of flights they may have taken could help track them down.

I do want to point out, however, I do NOT support what the US Gov't is up to under the guise of "security" - including this airport nonsense. I just wanted to point out that basic ID is important for more than just preflight security.

New name

[chris_sawtell]

Union of American Soviet States.

I think I'll go around the world the other way next time I travel.

Re:Nyet!

[javajetson]

ahmm, by the way, you may want to reply as answers to all of above questions with this sentence: "at whose expense?" if you don't like the way the airline industry sets the rules you don't have to fly. Last time I checked the use of air travel was a private-not public means of travel. As such it is private property and the government's job is to protect private property. And yes that means your physical being. as a libertarian it is ironic that he would suggest such changes calling for more government intervention and not less. why not just let the market work out the solution with it's checks and balances punishing business with financial loss for unethical practices? It's amazing that in the field of electronics and other engineering fields the "principles" are taught and learned in order to yield results. Proper principles of philosophy and metaphysical truths are no different... how about sticking to the basics of the right of the people to pursue happiness and possibly accepting that it may not be obtained? Accepting resonsibility for your actions even when misstreated is part of that happiness. Happiness is not obtained so much in physical or temporary conditions but in eternal...