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Disney Making Fake Crop Circles?
GuNgA-DiN writes: "It seems that Disney has been busy trying to promote their upcoming movie 'Signs' (by M. Night Shyamalan). There is an interesting article from some guys who REALLY follow and study crop signs: Paul Anderson of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network has reason to believe that they will be creating some man-made formations to promote the forthcoming movie. Anderson cites a competition or sweepstakes currently being promoted on the official 'Signs' website." Remember, patronize only genuine alien-swirled crop circles!
I'm shocked, shocked!
Better yet, don't patronize any crop circles at all, since it's destruction of property (how would you like it if a bunch of jokers spray painted your house or car, or broke into your computer and muddled around with the files? It's all the same -- destruction of property). If Disney's really doing this, then I expect to see a rash of lawsuits against them as well.
Of course, if you believe that crop circles really are made by aliens, well ... I guess it's time to break out the ol' tin foil hat.
The original "crop circles" were later admitted to be a hoax. However, when I tried to run a search for that information to show it here, I couldn't find it among the deluge of sites like this one which claims that "most serious researchers" believe that they are from "supernatural intelligence" and give quasi-religious defense for that... Where is the Amazing Randi when I need him?
Get off my launchpad!
short intro, and the homepage of Dansk Korncirkel Central.
Any Disney crop circles will have a little (C) mark somewhere nearby.
And maybe some mouse ears.
On the other hand, if Disney goes to Canada to make crop circles, we can reasonably claim the crop circles were made by aliens. But if Disney hires Canadians to make the crop circles in Canada, are the circles still considered to be the work of aliens? This is actually a very important topic of discussion, because crop circles have historically been produced by illegal aliens who are not only underpaid and overworked, they're not paying income tax. I don't know about Canada, but the IRS has a whole division devoted to hunting these tax evaders.
The only thing certain is that these circles will probably appear in threes -- two smaller circles sitting atop a larger circle -- and a pop musician will be performing in the center of each one.
...if the aliens just got tired of doing these designs and decided to have us humans do them ourselves in a mask of PR and prizes. :)
The latest issue of Scientific has an enligtening short article on the fine mischief of crop circles. (no doubt released in a timely manner in an effort to counter some of the nonsense from the release of the movie Signs.)
- "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
It seems fairly likely that Disney would want to create some hype for the film by commissioning man made crop signs. The only 'harm' to researchers would be if Disney never discloses doing so. Just as the Blair Witch cast was under contract to avoid all media attention until after the hype had died down I see little reason for Disney NOT to disclose not only which circles they commissioned, but how they did it as well. This final media thrust could even help researchers identify fake signs in the future.
A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.
I know some people that were going to go to a field and make their own designs with crops. They were drawing them out on peices of paper and trying to come up with things that were vauge yet apeared to have meaning. They were going to use big-ol-flat boards to do it with. I have no idea if they ever got around to doing it.
"Oh, I saw the sign.. and it opened up my mind; I saw the sign." *Whacks self several times*
Just look at the ears on this one.
i see a whole lot of "people who believe in aliens are crazy" jokes.. pretty disheartening for a website supposedly so technically inclined
.. in case you don't know he's a nationally syndicated talk show host whose show airs late at night (he was recently ranked #1 talk show host in America, above Rush Limbaugh) he also has been following recent developments in crop circles which ave been popping up all over the world (mostly in europe) in tandem wtih various cattle mutilations (argentina)
perhaps you should check out some of the more recent ones on www.artbell.com
if you see the pics they are quite elaborate and definitely not natural, and for having been done in a single night Disney would have had to put down some serious money.. espeically considering the biggest one is right next to StoneHenge (correct me if i'm wrong but Disney still releases movies in teh US first)
i dunno what they look like to you but they look like hints at the solar flares from 2012 that the mayans predicted.. my $.02
disclaimer: this is neither a troll nor am i a lunatic (NATOL)
The crop circles were made by a couple of fellows from Winchester named Doug Bower and Dave Chorley. They made the circles for years at night, and Bower even kept the secret from his wife for seven years. When they finally told the public, few people believed them, and the UFO crowd still insists that the hoax was not the crop circles but the claim of authorship. (ObNeologism: ("cereology" -- those who study crop circles.) Never mind that Bower and Chorley have the original designs and dates, signed the drawings with "DD," and other supporting evidence. Of course, there is also Doug Bower's statement that he was programmed by UFOs to make the circles. Sigh.
Some links:
An interview with Doug Bower
An article by Carl Sagan on crop circles
Circlemakers, an art group creating crop circles
flip
Great site... you can just hear the author snickering at the truebelievers. I especially like the part where he talks about playing to his "audience's" fantasies... /Brian
Will Disney be able to sue for IP infringement if "real" crop circles look similar to the Disney ones?
Well... as long as they're circles, and are made in crops, they're real crop circles...
Anyway, here's an interesting HOWTO you can follow to create your own circles. Here's an excerpt: ;)
How long before IBM starts creating crop Tuxen?
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
The differences are: silicon added to the list of atomic numbers, different DNA and nucleotides, different "stick figure" and stats, other planets highlighted in the solar/star system and a completely different transmitter.
I fail to understand people's logic.
:-D ) but why don't farmers just file lawsuits against those who destory their fields? That would certainly take it out of the realm of the supernatural. Not to mention stoping the recurrance of this 'phenomenon'.
'Flying Saucers' were NEVER seen until one report back in the 60s got quite widespread. Then everyone reported seeing them everywhere.
Even worse, Alien abductions follow the same line. It NEVER happens to ANYONE in thousands of years... One day someone reports it happening. Then it suddenly happens to EVERYONE.
Crop circles are at least understood as fakes by most people because someone came out and admitted to doing them (despite expert opinions that people could not do such a thing
P.S. Next time you see Big Foot/Yeti and the Nesse/The Lockeness Monster, tell them Elvis said "Hi". I missed them at the last Christmas party.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Well even if they arent all man made, soon we will find out how convincing man made crop circles are compared to whatever else is making them
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Theres no way anyone in their right mind can believe one guy, or a handful of guys make them all.
Maybe when they were just circles i could believe some of those dumb looking guys did it, but now they are getting more complicated in shape, some of them would be damn hard to draw on paper, you'd need precise measurements just to draw it on paper so whoever is doing them now is putting a great deal of effort into them.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
http://www.lovely.clara.net/crop_circles_sacredgeo 2.html
I suppose some people need an outlet for their artwork and crop circles are the answer
of course it could be aliens, but i really doubt aliens would ever communicate with us, what would they have to gain by doing so?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
whats the point of stayingn up all night sneaking into crops around the world to make silly designs?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Why would any alien intelligence capable of interstellar travel would choose to communicate using circles in corn but apparently not be able to figure out binary, or radio.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Disney only knows how to fake!
For example:
Fake Mouses
Fake Ethics
Fake concern about Fair Use Rgihts in Copyrights
Fake concern about consumers
Disney should just rename themselves Fakes'R'US
Don't Tread on OpenSource
Imagine if it were humans, landing on another planet, only to find the natives imitating our "footprints" everywhere. Do you think we'd take that as a sign of intelligence?
First, make it work, then make it right, then make it fast, then, make it bloated!
Strategy 1: Make fake crop circles in an attempt to raise publicity for movie.
Strategy 2: Make fake conspiracy about making fake crop circles in an attempt to get a good old-fashioned slashdotting.
I'm sure Disney has a few extra bucks to throw the farmers' way and an NDA to boot if they wanted to make this work.
True - it's very likely that stomping someone's fields is illegal in most parts of the world, but given compensation, I'd bet that most farmers would let someone (i.e. Disney) do it.
I have read of some interesting phenomenon in a few of the circles investigated. Molecular changes at the base of the stalks causing them to bend, rather than break. (do that with a 2x4!) and magnetic issues inside the circle formations.
I agree that most of them are man made, and probably the most intricate ones are man made as well.. but I also remember reading with a giggle as the SKeptic Observer reported definitively that they were being made by "mating hedgehogs".
I feel safe in saying we dont KNOW they are all man made, but we do know a lot of them are.
Check here: for more info. This guy seems to be a genuine researcher who accepts it when his hypothesis dont come out right.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
My 'technically inclined, scientific' mind says: The guy who went on TV, explained that he did crop circles, that it was blown way out of proportion, then went out with his buddies into a field one night and demonstrated, on film, how to make a crop circle in one night without being detected is probably indicative of all crop circles.
I remember how 'experts' kept saying that they were too perfect, could not be done in a single night, etcetera.
Of course, then the 'experts' had to scrutinize it and come up withe never-before-heard reasons why it is obviously fake. Of course, easy for them to say when they KNOW it's fake, instead of wanting to believe it's true. Perception is a powerful thing.
This Disney-AOL-Time-Warner Crop Circle was brought to you by a generous grant from Wheaties (a wholly owned subsidiary of General Mills). [crop circle of champions?]
-braxton
CSICOP (Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal) has several informative reports debunking crop circles including Joe Nickell's Investigative Brief into Levengood's Crop Circle Plant Research.
If you're interested in more informed discussion, check out the CSICOP Mailing List, where this topic (Disney's Crop Circle promotion) is also current.
ancarett, historian and zombie gamer
I'm sure Disney has a few extra bucks to throw the farmers' way and an NDA to boot if they wanted to make this work.
Or they'll just do what they normally do and buy themselves a law.
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
It's the well known Mayan Y2.012K bug. When they first implemented the calendar, they never thought the same stone calendars would still be used by now, so they never got around to fixing it. In a couple of years, you'll suddenly see a big demand for masons to go fix the calendars so they can cope with dates beyond 2012. You mark my words...
"Information wants to be paid"
Well, that sure goes a long way towards explaining Dennis Day ;-).
A well-crafted lie appears unquestionable - Dama Mahaleo
Those of you who were paying attention might remember that about a year ago, there was no such thing as crop circles. The only reason you think you've already heard of them now is because Disney has messed with the timeline.
Now you know why Disney really needed to extend the copyright term... When you're creating works in the past, you need that extra time!
I've seen dust devils (sortof miniature tornadoes, common in croplands) make interesting patterns in grainfields, by flattening the stalks as the dust devil passes over them. A dust devil will follow extremely small irregularities in the ground, whether natural or such as those left by circle irrigators, or dirt packed by vehicles, presumably because of temperature and airflow gradiants. On perfectly even ground, it'll tend to move in circles or spirals, presumably per the math of stuff affected by the earth's rotation. So a pattern of spirals or interlocking circles isn't too unusual as a result (albeit not as tidy as manmade examples).
;)
I've seen a very large dust devil (about 300 feet high, 100' wide at the top and 25' across at the base) follow the curves of a gravel road for over a mile (and it went *around* a car that happened to be in its way at a crossroads -- quite a sight!!) This road also acted as a thermal barrier when the airport behind it fogged up -- fog always ended at the road as cleanly as if it'd been cut with a giant knife.
BTW you can demonstrate dust devils' tendency to go around objects and continue on in their original line of travel -- just try "catching" a small one by getting in its way. It'll go around you every time (or even "run the other way"), doubtless because of how your being there changes the airflow.
I can easily imagine a pair of somewhat tipsy and mischievious fellows watching a dust devil moving in circles and smashing grain, and saying, "Hey, we can do that, only better!!"
I have somewhat more trouble imagining why aliens would give a shit about making crop circles (if it's communication they want, surely they can be more direct about it!) unless it's really a biohazard marking to warn their fellows.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
And Authority, (Respected Bodies of Scientists) are NEVER going to place their jobs and reputations in jeopardy by admitting that they were wrong, that Magic exists and the $20 New Orleans psychic had it right the whole time. Just won't happen.
Only it has happened, many times. Many physicists have shown themselves to be quite credulous, which is why the best debunkers tend to be magicians.
People who get too successful in convincing the world of phenomenon outside the accepted realm of science are ridiculed, tormented, punished and murdered. Or nailed to crosses. Take your pick. There is, quite simply, NO way that a person with genuine abilities would be allowed to change the whole Western belief paradigm by way of James Randi's little challenge. --Think about it. Even in the corridors of accepted science, researchers are regularly assassinated for rocking the boat.
Right. Do you also believe in UFOs, astral projection, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trans-mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?
Can you please point out any evidence of researchers being "regularly assassinated"? Beyond the biochemist thing, which is troubling but not necessarily evidence of a conspiracy?
James Randi has too much personal stake in his 'Quest for Truth'. Remember the last time you were caught out and shown to be 180 degrees of wrong in a subject you were not just spouting with authority for years, but upon which you based massive amounts of self-worth? Perhaps this has never happened to you. Perhaps you are very good at the denial game, (which allows you to continue living in a wishful thinking daydream and not feel like a damned fool). This is James Randi. I strongly suspect that he would do almost anything to prevent himself from being proven wrong in a massive public forum. This is the kind of bias James Randi comes installed with. He has NOTHING to do with truth, and everything to do with witch hunting and serving his ego-based agenda.
Only that James Randi's challenge includes an independent judging panel agreed upon by both he and the testee. Go read how the Randi challenge is set up; it's a fair, even-handed way to test supposed supernatural powers. And on another note, he HAS been proven wrong, just not on supernatural/alien issues; check his web page. He freely admits this.
As chance would have it, I happen to know several people who have 'supernatural' abilities but who, a) Have never heard of James Randi and his little propaganda machine, b) have been so sufficiently tormented and stunted for being different while growing up by ignorant and/or cruel people around them, that they instinctively cringe away from such mean-spirited (and most likely fixed) public challenges like Randi's; they would probably shrivel up and die if forced to stand on a stage facing a million eyes determined to see only what they want to see, and to pour out only scorn and disbelief regardless of what is demonstrated
Then tell them to take the test and make a million dollars. There are thousands of people who are convinced they have powers. In controlled experiment settings, they're always proved wrong. ALWAYS. The powers evaporate, leaving a string of excuses, evasions, and prevarications.
So, I read your comment. Read your sig. At exactly that moment, that line popped up on the random itunes playlist I'd made (random 25 toad songs). I'm still dazed.
Triv
I would like to see one that says, "Us Aliens Think Microsoft Sucks".
Table-ized A.I.
Or, a giant middle finger, telling what "they" really think of us.
Table-ized A.I.
Just because he can't figure out the methods of 1 out of 5 circles doesn't mean he's stupid. If someone finally shows him how to do it, he might think "Wow, that was clever", regardless of how obvious it might seem to the pranksters. It just means that 20% of the "artists" are smarter than he is.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Evidence is virtually impossible to legitimize.
If you can bend a spoon, or whatever, under controlled conditions, then you have legimate enough evidence to win the million dollars. It's not like Randi is going to let someone edit in something.
Even video tape of a shuttle launch, shot with the most expensive 'movie quality' equipment could be argued as fake by somebody with such a bent.
Sure. But the claim that science makes, is that I can go down to Houston one evening and watch the shuttle launch. Science is open to people to people looking over their shoulder; even if I'm not looking over their shoulder at this time, I can trust someone else is.
People who get too successful in convincing the world of phenomenon outside the accepted realm of science are ridiculed, tormented, punished and murdered.
Just look at the bloody way John Edwards died, just when people were starting to hear of him.
Science works by proof, and so far has been very succesful at changing the world around us using that proof. All it demands of psychic powers is the same thing.
If you can patent .jpg's and hyperlinks, Lord only knows the fun you could have by patenting this little corner of the patent universe...
Make the Source Forge ads stop, Mommy!
You need a FREE iPod Nano
James "the Amazing" Randi, however, is a self promoter first and foremost, and he is supported by wealthy forces which want to see his, "Go Back To Sleep Citizen," message spread far and wide.
And that's why James Randi has his own highly rated television show on Sci-Fi and John Edwards is a relative unknown except among a few geeks.
Or how about a proof to a long-standing math puzzle?
Or the where-abouts of Jimmy Haffa's body in map form?
Or the source code to Windows XP?
Naw, that would starve the nation because it would kill too many crops.
Table-ized A.I.
But how is it that debunkers are allowed to ask for money in order to publish their information, but that people writing books I might want to read are penalized for the same thing? Is it because James Randi is a hypocrite?
And I bet James Randi doesn't approve of those people who send out the Nigeran letters asking help to embezzle millions, either. What a hypocrit. Wait a second, though; I assume since you think that he should encourage people to give money to his oppenents as well as him, you're a steady donater to him?
Of course, I'm the kind who confuses Close Encounters of the Third Kind with Closet Encounters of the Nerd Kind (a wonderful spoof of the other) while watching them to the point that it doesn't matter which one I'm watching - I'm waiting for the singing pastries :-)
...for the big guns in the sky.
The accuracy with which these "images" are "drawn" seems to fall into two categories, foot-trodden, and laser-like. Many seem, to me, to be the latter.
Some of these images are very complex, and yet so accurately drawn, that the very notion they were trod out with plank and rope by a couple of old codgers (or a team of college students even) is pretty unthinkable. They would need sight lines and all sorts of technique for making sure each one of their stompings went right where it's supposed to -otherwise they'd not look so perfect as they do, no?
These highly accurate-looking images are, in my view, a combination test pattern and non-subtle message, imaged with microwave or other high-energy, non-visible laser, mounted on an orbital "Star Wars" missile defense test platform.
The message being, "notice the accuracy with which we draw on your front lawn? we can focus that beam on anybody who pisses us off!" (except Saddam or Osama, inexplicably) There was a hilarious scene along these lines at the begining of the Val Kilmer movie "Real Genius".
An article in New Scientist Magazine asked "How long before we see a manifestation of a Mandelbrot [set] in the fields?" One year to the day after the publication of that question, a mandelbrot set appeared in a field near Cambridge University -where Benoit Mandelbrot had taught.
Big Daddy, Johnny, Burp, Aunt Zelda, Scott, Slurp, Big Momma
You find the 'biochemist thing' troubling, but not so much as to actually make you think in new ways? Hm. So in that case, no, I can't point out any evidence which will convince you.
In other words, "damn, I don't have any other examples, so I'll just pretend that I do but won't tell."
This does not mean that there isn't plenty of it out there; there is. Many of the greats, and many less famous scientists have been bullied, persuaded, mind-controled and, yes, in the harshest of circumstances, even killed. Go get over your mental blocks, and then go do some research.
Mind-controlled? How exactly does that work?
No. Only in the controlled experiment settings you choose to look at. --Which again cuts directly to my point that the Evidence skeptics cry for is, for all intents and purposes, unattainable. There have been a wide number of studies which have given positive results of various phenomena. But a good study doesn't mean good marketing.
No. In all experiments. None of the "promising" ones are ever successfully duplicated. This stuff isn't hard to test; if it exists it should show up easily, if it doesn't then it won't.
If someone claims they can bend spoons with their mind, let them try. If someone can read minds, then let's see them do it. There aren't millions of variables here, the majority of paranormal claims are easy to test. They never work. NEVER. It doesn't matter how many ad hominem attacks you launch against me, James Randi, or skeptics in general, it still won't make ESP exist.
but that people writing books I might want to read are penalized for the same thing?
Now you're REALLY making things up out of whole cloth. How are they penalized? This isn't a rhetorical question, please tell me how all the John Edwards, Erich von Danikens, and Uri Gellers are PENALIZED. Go ahead.
No. Only in the controlled experiment settings you choose to look at.
Mo. In all the properly controlled experiments. Randi is a magician. He knows how to fool people. He sets up the test so that the subject cannot cheat. Don't you find it a little bit suspicious that no one can ever make their 'powers' work under those circumstances?
As chance would have it, I happen to know several people who have 'supernatural' abilities
Uh huh.
have been so sufficiently tormented and stunted for being different while growing up by ignorant and/or cruel people around them, that they instinctively cringe away from such mean-spirited (and most likely fixed) public challenges like Randi's; they would probably shrivel up and die if forced to stand on a stage facing a million eyes determined to see only what they want to see,
You don't have to stand on a stage. You don't have to face a million eyes. All they have to do is face Randi, one-on-one, in controlled circumstances, and bend one single spoon with their mind. Or divine the contents of the sealed envelope. Or predict the order of the cards. Or...
in what I'd guess is a piece of miraculous timing, there's a documentary of crop circles coming around the same time. Directed by Emmy-award winning William Gazecki.
http://www.cropcirclesthemovie.com/
(Disclaimer: I'm not associated with the movie and havent seen it, but I've worked on the website.)
- j
some would take a lot of people and time,and some incredible organization.
k 01 df.html
l hi ll/windmillhill2002a.html
http://home.clara.net/lucypringle/photos/2001/u
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2002/windmil
---
If that's true -- and it certainly can't be proven otherwise -- then they're welcome to their supernatural powers. But if they refuse to let their powers be tested under controlled conditions, and allow scientists to do repeated experiments, with everything that goes with it, they shouldn't be surprised when most people don't believe them.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Science, as usually practiced today, is prejudicial. That is, it pre-judges what is real and what is not real.
That's because that's what thinking creatures do. There is no proof that writing this message wouldn't cause the destruction of the Earth. But by my judgement of what is real, this message will have minimal impact of the world. We go around assuming that floors and the ground won't collapse beneath us; it's not always a correct assumption, but someone who didn't believe that would quickly terrify themselves to death.
If scientists didn't prejudge what was real, they would constantly be doing to experiments to see if 2+2=7 or if things fly upwards when dropped. However, scientists like to do useful research, and people prefer to pay them for useful research. So they study stuff that they believe has a decent possibility of being true.
these bounds are subject to the creeds of materialism and naturalism.
By the nature of science, that's about all you can study using it. Supernatural things don't obey rules that allow them to be studied. They won't appear in a labortory, they frequently won't appear on film, and they can be very good at hiding or destroying evidence about themselves. How exactly are you supposed to study them?
There is no fundamental scientific problem with psionic powers. For some reason, however, while we can pull some guy who can bend a crowbar in half with his hands into a lab and study him, people who can bend a spoon in half with his mind tend to not be able to do that when watched too closely.
Well, unfortunately I wasn't keeping records and notes of all my reading when I was looking at examples of this kind of activity. A quick search, however, through my files brought up these names: George Bull, Morris K. Jessup, Karen Silkwood, Frank Edwards, Phil Schneider, Stefan Marinov. (All murdered in fairly clear ways, some of whom, I believe, in clear attempts to misdirect; Morris K. Jessup in particular; that is, kill a guy who is spouting crap in a very obvious assassination, and then all the conspiracy people will spend all their time looking so carefully at the dead guy's notes that they miss what's really going on. But that's just my thinking.)
Then there are the big ones, like Nicoli Tesla, Albert Einstein and Von Neumann, all of whom were manipulated to some degree, in both very obvious ways, and in some very un-obvious ways. I'm afraid you'll have to look up the information regarding these items yourself; I'm not about to go re-tracing my steps with hyperlinks and footnotes for your benefit, particularly when I'm not convinced that you really want to see any of this stuff in the first place. All I can say is that the reading is very interesting if you are ready to dig and to consider, but you must be willing to work at it.
Mind-controlled? How exactly does that work?
Wow! Where to start. . . This stuff is REALLY fascinating, so if you only look up some of the items I'm providing here, look up these three:
Greenbaum Lecture. --That's the psyche side.
Jose M. R. Delgado --The famous 'stop the charging bull with a button push' guy. He was into the direct control of the brain through electrical impulses delivered, in his early experiments, through implanted wires, and later on, with EM.
Joseph Goebbles --The man who pioneered population control through mass media.
If someone claims they can bend spoons with their mind, let them try. If someone can read minds, then let's see them do it. There aren't millions of variables here, the majority of paranormal claims are easy to test. They never work. NEVER. It doesn't matter how many ad hominem attacks you launch against me, James Randi, or skeptics in general, it still won't make ESP exist.
What can I say? You say NEVER with such utter conviction, there really isn't much point in trying to offer you new info for consideration. There is plenty, (though clearly, you haven't seen any of it; and unless you specifically look beyond CNN and the popular media feeds, you won't), however I am not going to bother listing them for you. And no, it's not that, "damn, I don't have any other examples, so I'll just pretend that I do but won't tell," it's that I don't feel like working in order to provide you with links and names etc. just for you to dismiss out of hand. Your level of awareness is YOUR problem and nobody else's.
If I'm reading you incorrectly, then I apologize, but must still recommend you go look for the material yourself. Start with Healing Touch; there were some good double blind studies done in the late eighties. Also, Acupuncture is another system with a fairly low threat factor for normal people stuck in orthodox thinking; Acupuncture clearly works, (even on animals during surgery, which removes the question of any placebo effect), but orthodox medicine doesn't want to admit it because it raises some foundation breaking possibilities. --It's nothing scary; it's all well within the realm of physical science, it just undermines certain 'rules' of medicine which would upset many were they broken. Anyway, that information is all out there as well, for those willing to search.
Now you're REALLY making things up out of whole cloth. How are they penalized? This isn't a rhetorical question, please tell me how all the John Edwards, Erich von Danikens, and Uri Gellers are PENALIZED. Go ahead.
Are you intentionally mis-understanding the semantics here?
First off, I am not familiar with any of the three authors (?) you listed. I assume you believe they are con-artists of some color or other, and because you bring them up with such confidence, then I suspect they probably really are. I wouldn't know until I read their material, however.
In any case, when I said penalized, I meant that the James Randi's of the world look at the fact that New Age books are sold rather than given away for free, as proof positive that New Age books are filled ONLY with lies and that their authors are ALL in it just for the money. --A damning statement and a 'penalty'. And that's what I meant. Perhaps 'penalize' was the wrong word to use in this case, but that's hardly the point. I hope we're done with that! I hate it when this kind of conversation devolves on one side into the mere clashing of word semantics; it's usually at that point when denial is in full swing and nothing is being heard. Rather like covering one's ears and singing, "La, La, La, I can't here you!"
But I don't think we're at that point, so I'll just let it be for now.
I hope that gives you something interesting to chew on. Enjoy! (If you will. It's up to you. Learning is fun!)
-Fantastic Lad
There probably are lots of people doing them, but they don't really seem that hard. There is a documentary on (I think) the Discovery Channel that has aired a few times over the years where they actually go out with some folks one night and do time-lapse photography as they make a highly complicated crop circle. (They drew the original design using some basic geometric templates, compasses, and things like that, iirc.)
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
OK, so the video surveillance didn't see people -- what the hell did it see then? Alien spaceships? The circles just magically appeared *without* any cause?
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
orthodox medicine doesn't want to admit it because it raises some foundation breaking possibilities.
And you seem to think that's a bad thing. Once you think you know what's going on, you don't switch foundations on anything less than very strong and compelling evidence.
Frankly, you'll get farther predicting the movement of the planets believing the planets and sun move around the earth in circles, each riding their own little cirles upon cirles, then you'll get believing the planets and Earth move around the sun in simple cirles. And the paths for the first couldn't have been predicted except by many years of devotion to that theory.
the James Randi's of the world look at the fact that New Age books are sold rather than given away for free, as proof positive that New Age books are filled ONLY with lies and that their authors are ALL in it just for the money
The quotation you gave certainly doesn't prove that - he's specifically complaining about scam-artists in that quote. Having read Randi's weekly column, he clearly understands that many authors believe what they are writing.
First off, I am not familiar with any of the three authors [John Edwards, Erich von Daniken, and Uri Geller] (?) you listed.
Really? I know you haven't read Randi's weekly columns, since he goes after John Edwards almost every week. (He channels the dead for people on the Sci-Fi channel; his very successful shows has produced much backlash.) He also mentions Uri Geller frequently. (Uri Geller is, among other things, a spoon-bender and has been around for many decades. He's sued Randi, among others, for slander a couple times, never successful in court, but Randi is now somewhat circumspec about how he refers to Geller.) (Erich von Daniken wrote the very successful Chariot of the Gods and other books.) How you've never heard of them is beyond me; they are arguably the three most succesful (money and fame) non-religious paranormal people of this century.
Crop circles have been appearing in England since the mid eighties. In fact they are old news here now - nobody talks about them anymore.
At their peak in the early nineties there were people including some reputable scientists who actually believed that they weren't made by human beings. To be fair the reputable scientists all fell into the "bizarre meteorological phenomenon" as opposed to the "beings from outer space" camp.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
I happen to know several people who have 'supernatural' abilities but who [...] have been so sufficiently tormented and stunted for being different while growing up by ignorant and/or cruel people around them [...]
And let me guess, they're all right now in the process of swearing an oath to protect a world that fear and hate them? And I thought that was just a comic. Silly silly me.
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok
With the current state of the agricultural economy in the UK, a good crop circle is an absolute godsend (oops - I meant it is good fortune). Yesterday I passed a field with a crop circle in it and the farmer was charging 1 UKP for people to go in and walk around. He will probably make more money that way than out of the wheat that was flattened.
This makes a few things a little easier to explain such as how complex designs were able to appear overnight and why nobody has ever filmed a circle being made without the cooperation of the "hoaxers". If the farmer is in on the joke, it's a lot easier.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
Don't think PopSci, or SciAm are above being paid to run a story that's relevant to crop circles in a timely fashion 'to coincide with the release of...' - because they are not above it. These magazines are *frequently* paid to take 'guest editorials' on topical subjects ...
...
The movie industry dedicates entire *departments* to getting media and press to publish stories relating to current topical movies. You don't have to look far to see the effects of this - CNN are *always* running 'filler stories' that are somehow topical with the latest blockbusters
Look at it this way. You read about crop circles in this months SciAm, then you see the "Signs" posters at the busstop, and you figure "hey, okay, I'll go see it - I'm interested in crop circles lately".
That whole transaction was planned, months ago.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Wow! You've got good eyesight! The shuttles launch from Florida.
Right. Do you also believe in UFOs, astral projection, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trans-mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?
If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say.
I can't possibly be the only one who caught the reference....
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
buuuut.....the article was critical of the whole crop circle/ created by aliens phenomenon. It certainly wasn't an endorsment of that waste of film Signs. It makes me NOT want to see it.
- "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
Bah! Look at Charles T. Tart, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at UC Davis. A man who has had a long, and successful career as a psychology professor - a staunch believer in "Transpersonal Psychology" -
(here's his web page: http://www.paradigm-sys.com/cttart/
)
He's had his share of critics mind you, but nobody sabotaged his career or mind controlled him into silence or assassinated him. You'd think that if there were underhanded efforts to discredit the whole "supernatural phenomenon" deal, that he would have been a prime target.
I'm a proponent of the supernatural (somewhat) myself, but I sure as hell don't believe in some vast conspiracy to silence those who study these phenomena seriously. That's just plain bullshit. Any field like this, of course, is going to attract people who are flakes. Those flakes get discredited, and generally bad things happen to them. And there are also perfectly good scientists who DO make some observations which are unexplainable. Nothing is happening to those people.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I run a skeptic-oriented search engine called Skeptic Planet
[...]
I also run a Slash-based news site called Skeptic News...
Cool. Haven't played with them, yet, but they're bookmarked now =) Definitely relevant to the topic under discussion.
Get off my launchpad!
Perhaps Michael Eisner is actually the lead alien, and Sen. Fritz Hollings is his gay martian lover. They discuss legislation in their seedy love shack orbitting high above the Earth while watching Keanau Reaves movies.
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.