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Free Software Inflates BSA's Piracy Claims

crazney writes: "According to this article in The Age, the BSA do not count the effect of free software when calculating piracy rates. The article suggests that free software has made piracy statistics look worse and hence encourages governments to create harsher laws ... Could someone pass The BSA a cluebat?"

33 of 304 comments (clear)

  1. Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by RAruler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The BSA is exactly that, a Business Software Alliance. It doesn't serve the end user, it serves the corporations, the difference between this and other 'agencies' is that it makes no attempt to hide this. The BSA supports draconian measures like the DMCA, they'd probably like even stricter legislation. They represent corporate greed, they 'blackmail' companies into paying for huge site licenses to cover all the workstations and then some, or face a 'software audit' in which they'll no doubt find some violations. Have a 100 machine site license and a hundred machines, but just bought that new desktop for the boss? Lost the paperwork for the server in the corner?

    Tobacco companies fund studies that find that Ciggarette smoking is less dangerous than playing golf in a thunderstorm, the BSA fudges facts to make Pirates seem like the scum of the Earth. The music industry and the 'software' industry have yet to realize that inflated prices lead to inflated piracy. Personally, i'm of the mind that if you make money with software, you should purchase that software. Some companies are alright with this as well, think of the thousands of script kiddies with their pirated versions of photoshop, they were never going to buy it in the first place.. Adobe cares about that printshop, or the graphics design place.. and most of these places wouldn't touch a pirated version of Photoshop with a ten-foot pole. They don't need the BSA to police them, at best the BSA makes a huge hassle, people decide that paying thousands of dollars a year to Microsoft for a site license is insane and switch to something free, many times open-source. Their draconian policies and scare tactics have probably won more converts than a slick red hat ad.

    --

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    1. Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 5, Interesting
      "The BSA supports draconian measures like the DMCA, they'd probably like even stricter legislation"

      Do you know this for a fact?

      The BSA and the SPA are not the same as the mpaa. For example I know the SPA is very anti-Microsoft which I find surprising. They are also very pro technology and are probably against the dmca. Remember that software companies do not like closed computers unless they are in the entertainment sector.

      Here goes my karma( gulp).

      I know they sound really evil and are unpopular but they have a right to protect software companies. Remember that whether you like it or not software companies need to be paid and you cannot pirate or steal their work. This is especially true for corporations. Script kiddies are far from their minds. The BSA wont be slamming down your door anytime soon for bootlegging like the mpaa plans to, but corporations need to pay for the software they use. Especially if they can afford it. Using someone else's software without compensation is stealing. I know many of you reading this are college students who are poor and are scoffing at this but realize that hundreds of programmers at these software companies need a paycheck. How would you like it if your employer only partially compensated you for writing code?

      All that the BSA does is make sure the software companies are adequately compensated for their particular licenses. They do not have the intention of ripping off the public. To them if a software company is stupid enough to over charge then it's the software company's problem and not theirs. For example Oracle has ridiculously expensive and outrageous pricing. Guess what? They no longer even have %50 marketshare anymore. SQL Server, Mysql, and DB2 are catching up.

      If you think its too expensive or the license is outrages, then don't buy it. Purchase Linux or cheaper alternatives. I oppose piracy and I believe piracy is hurting free software rather then helping it. Borland as well as Linux would have greater marketshare if people stopped pirated Visual Studio and Windows. Remember that its not greed when a software company overcharges. Its stupidity. Oracle is a prime example of that.

    2. Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by jsse · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Then who they serve, some of us might wonder.

      In case you haven't been 'harrassed' by BSA before, they'll first send your company a letter to offer 'free audit' of your computer system, failure to comply might result in legal action. They seem to have their way to get the local government(even outside US) to their side and they could really get the court warrent if they like. Therefore most companies would let them in.

      They wouldn't take immediate action when they caught your company using software you are not licensed for(well, it always be the case in a big company). However, within three days M$ would mysterically 'see' your difficulities and offered you a 5 years lock-in contract in order to waive your legal responsibility of using unlicense software. Great, you don't need to face that 2 years jailing and $5000 fine for each unlicensed software used.

      How nice they are...but wait, how did M$ know my situation, where did they get our information? It shouldn't be BSA, they promised to our government that the information they got from our Government are kept confidential, and M$ sales said they just do the cold call it. Well, is that my guardian angel save me again by giving an emergency call to M$?

    3. Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by Lord_Slepnir · · Score: 5, Informative
      they 'blackmail' companies into paying for huge site licenses to cover all the workstations and then some, or face a 'software audit'

      I can personally testify to this. My company, a fabric manufacturer with sites worldwide, was recently approached by Microsoft with an offer for a 'maintainence plan'. Since we have a full IT team, we didn't need it. A week later an e-mail appears in our CIO's mailbox saying that we're being audited by Microsoft. Now every morning, he walks into work and says "Alright, what can we do today to get rid of more windows boxes".

    4. Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by ChaosDiscordSimple · · Score: 3, Informative
      All that the BSA does is make sure the software companies are adequately compensated for their particular licenses.

      ...by sending threatening letters, forcing expensive audits, and assuming that failure to locate a license equals theft.

      Businesses should darn well acquire their software legally. If the software they want is commercial, it should be paid for. However, the BSA assumes that every user is convicted thief who must be monitored. The cost of an audit can devastate a school district or city.

      If can go to Best Buy and purchase a DVD player, a PS2 game, a big screen televison, some music CDs, some magazines, a car stereo, some speakers, a phone card, a strategy guide book, and some computer software. How I pay for each of things looks identical. Only the computer software attempts to change the sale into a license after I get it home and try to use it. With the exception of the computer software, I'm free to modify or copy any of these things (Assuming I'm capable of copying them) for my personal use. And only the computer software exposes me to the possibility of having to pay to have an audit prove that I didn't steal it.

      The BSA is leading this charge, "You're a thief unless you can prove otherwise." They damn well deserve all the flak they get.

  2. Re:From the BSA homepage... by AndyChrist · · Score: 3, Informative

    How much of a drain does the application software (as opposed to high-end and/or custom software, which if anything could be HELPED by free software...SOMEONE is getting paid to adapt that software to an organization's needs) industry put on the economy, compared to the benefits it offers?

    How many jobs will be created in businesses that rely upon commercial application software as a result of costs cut through cheaper software?

    Shouldn't free software, apart from it's impacts on the application software industry, be seen just like tax cuts are?

    Well, unless tax cuts aren't all they're cracked up to be.

  3. I'm not sure how all this adds up by KNicolson · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The article says:

    "We ask respondents to choose from a very long list of specific software titles, reporting which ones they regularly use. This means we identify Microsoft Word versus, say, WordPerfect," says Metafacts principal analyst Dan Ness.

    Open-source competitors are not included as alternatives, he says.

    So, do they assume that because x% of users say they don't have a licenced copy of one of Word/WordPerfect/etc, then some percent of this percentage MUST have an unlicenced copy of one of the above? What about people who just don't use Word Processors, or Spreadsheets, or whatever? Seems to be some fishy maths going on here! The article doesn't clarify what's going on.

  4. Re:From the BSA homepage... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's a hacked version of item 5.1 on this page. They're referring to piracy, not open source.

  5. Doesn't surprise me... by evbergen · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... given that the BSA has defined piracy as "downloading software without paying for it" before. Having a bit of a narrow view on the world, aren't we?

    Of course, software (and everything else) should be payed for. Nobody should give something of value away and not charge for it -- you're underselling if you do, and that's unfair to the good people who are trying to make a profit here. How else are we going to have a healthy ecosystem of goods and services?

    In these tight times, citizens should not be harming the economy that way. All those ways in which a good transaction is still wasted today! People playing music for their friends, without purchasing records. Walking in parks with just trees and no shops. Reading books without advertising. Come on people, these models are just not viable anymore.

    We should teach people that giving things away is stealing from the economy. It's simply unethical.

    --
    All generalizations are false, including this one. (Mark Twain)
  6. Don't be surprised... by allanj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    that they didn't factor in Open Source. It would have lessened their argument, and it's bad enough as is. Besides, piracy figures from the BSA and similar bodies have always been - at most - one notch above reading tea-leaves.

    --
    Black holes are where God divided by zero
  7. Re:From the BSA homepage... by KNicolson · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I smell a doctored article with dodgy statements like:

    By spending money on free software

    A quick web search turns up this original version:

    http://www.howtotell.com/ww/bsa.asp

    For the link-paranoid, replace "free software" with "pirate software" to get the original text.

  8. Re:Cluebat? by a_n_d_e_r_s · · Score: 3, Funny


    Hey, I always use

    ls -lart

    --
    Just saying it like it are.
  9. Harsh by Mr_Silver · · Score: 3, Redundant
    They represent corporate greed, they 'blackmail' companies into paying for huge site licenses to cover all the workstations and then some, or face a 'software audit' in which they'll no doubt find some violations.

    Harsh. If you purchase a product then the very least you should do is purchase the correct number of licences. This is the nature of commercial software after all.

    Have a 100 machine site license and a hundred machines, but just bought that new desktop for the boss? Lost the paperwork for the server in the corner?

    Then you're one hundred percent in the wrong. When you're an organisation you should be keeping detailed records (after all you probably do when it concerns money owed to you).

    You can't use lazyness and sloppyness as an excuse for violating a licence. Whatever that licence is.

    If someone used that excuse as a reason for violating the GPL, I doubt it would wash - so why do you think it should the other way?

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    1. Re:Harsh by rseuhs · · Score: 3, Insightful
      If "you should be keeping detailed records" is so important how come that now TCO study I've seen so far has accounted these costs in?

      What about the risk of getting busted? Some part-time employee installing pirated software can cause the company to pay huge fines or even go under.

      Again, when do studies start to calculate these risks in?

    2. Re:Harsh by imadork · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Have a 100 machine site license and a hundred machines, but just bought that new desktop for the boss? Lost the paperwork for the server in the corner?
      Then you're one hundred percent in the wrong. When you're an organisation you should be keeping detailed records (after all you probably do when it concerns money owed to you).

      In that case, since you're an expert as to what organizations do, I'm sure that you have proof of purchase for every piece of office furniture that you have in your office, don't you?

      After all, by your logic, if the Office Furniture Alliance comes and does an audit, and finds that you're missing the proof of purchase for that one file cabinet in the small office that nobody uses, then somebody must have stolen it, right? Because if you can't prove you own every piece of furniture, you're one hundred percent in the wrong. When you're an organisation you should be keeping detailed records (after all you probably do when it concerns money owed to you).

    3. Re:Harsh by imadork · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You, sir, must have one heck of an office manager in your workplace. I know there's a process in place where I work to keep track of things like that, but things do get lost, although not very often. Especially after a few office moves and personel changes, like we've had here. Sometimes people move from department to department (I'm in a big company) and bring their office furniture with them since it was bought with their ergonomics in mind; in your workplace, you obviously must transfer the reciepts for their equipment (and all their pencils) as well. I bow to your mad foo powers.

      Anyway, I think you took my response a little too literally. I was trying to point out the absurdity of having some outside agency assume that if you can't prove you bought something, than you must have stolen it. Because that's what the BSA does on a routine basis. The Government is bound by this silly notion that you are innocent until proven guilty; luckily for us, in the BSA's world, we're all guilty of theft until we can prove we've bought every tool, chair, and pencil. I feel so much safer now.

      I have no sympathy for business who try to cut corners by engaging in mass copyright infringement. But the BSA often goes too far in the other direction, and treats well-meaning businesses who are trying to comply with the rules with the same hardball tactics as the businesses who don't care about licensing.

  10. Of course, one has to consider... by 91degrees · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The actual piracy rates are a wild guess as it is. Its based on the number of applications they expect to sell. Since piracy has been around for at least as long as computers, this figure has never been calculated from a static value.

    While it is true that they ask people what software they use, a lot of people genuinely don't know. They'll say Word when they have StarOffice

  11. These people have a clue. by g4dget · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The BSA knows exactly what they are doing and they are very smart. They simply interpret the facts in the most convenient way they can to advance their agenda. Open source software is a threat to their members, so why should they make any allowances for it in their statistics if they don't have to?

    I suspect the BSA is run by rampant free market ideologues. If you pressed them about their philosophy, they would probably say something like that open source software is a threat to the free enterprise system and mostly copies commercial software; while open source may not be illegal, maybe it should be.

    Don't expect to be able to reason with those people. Oppose their claims with facts whereever you can, and expose the irrationality and inefficiency of their model of software distribution.

    1. Re:These people have a clue. by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 3, Funny

      Open source software is a threat to their members...{snip}

      Well, when your tactics hit below the belt, I suppose turnabout is fair play.

      {SEG}

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      Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
  12. Re:Go BSA! by fferreres · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes and No.

    Yes. Also, people lets Word before they even find htier first job. Of course, that may mean the use Word because that's what their employer will value.

    No. Your boss uses Word and probably has a pirated copy at home. Every office runs Word because they know employees (high or low rank) will be able t pirate Office to make the homework.

    So that leads me to the conclusion that if NOBODY ever had even the slightest chance of getting an Office without actually paying for it, you'll have like (my guess) 80% of the computer-litetare US population outright complaining about this overpriced piece of crap being imposed to them.

    BUT OF COURSE ... MS knows they can easily charge "corporation X" and not "citizen X", so they don't ever "audit" peoples homes. But they will when they evaluate they can get value added from it (ie: discounted cash flow triggered by anti-piracy@home [including all side effects such as riots, bad PR, etc.]). If they haven't done so, it's because they are better off charging corps than everyone.

    And you can't (sucessfully) argue that Openoffice would greatly benefit from BSA starting an large scale antipiracy crusade at companies AND home users.

    --
    unfinished: (adj.)
  13. Napster?!? by Johnny+O · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Im sorry, the article mentions Napster as a source of software?!?! Not only does napster not exist anymore, but it never shared software....

  14. Better yet by mizhi · · Score: 3, Funny

    Could someone please use the cluebat on the BSA?

    --
    Humorless sig goes here.
  15. Here's one by heikkile · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Could someone pass The BSA a cluebat?

    Have someone inform BSA that the FSF office is actually using pirated word processors for all their work. Let them ask for an audit, and try to force the matter. Immediate self-lart, with lots of publicity for both parts!

    --

    In Murphy We Turst

  16. think like business people...... by XavierXeon · · Score: 4, Funny

    and you will come to the following conclusion :

    open source = no profit (most of the time)
    piracy = no profit

    since
    no profit = no profit

    it follows
    open source = piracy

  17. We could server ourselves by fferreres · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What if someone with some free time and willing to donate some work would put a website that:

    1 - calculated OOS installed based (using their same methods or the ones that'd fit us best)
    2- estimated a price similar to one of closed source alternative in other plataforms, that achieved the same tasks
    3 - calculate estimated total sales in a BSA likewise fashion

    We would then be able to say:

    * How much money corporations and customers are saving by using OSS
    How much productivity is OSS contributing to the US economy

    * How much taxes is OSS producing (based to the fact that 35% of all savings turn into Income Tax + all the indirect taxes collected due to the 65% remaining income beign either used for consumption or investment)

    Someone could contribute another posibles good uses of these figures, to fight back BSA arguments and better inform our politicians and the media.

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    unfinished: (adj.)
  18. please everyone remember... by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The BSA is NOT a government agency, they have no real abilities outside of having a fleet of overpaid lawyers and a buttload of money to blackmail or assult a company with. remember these words... the Business Software Alliance is Nothing but another Company.

    And this company is paid to make money for the companies that pay them. Of course they are lying about how much piracy is happening. Of course they publish false and misleading information about the amount of money lost due to piracy. Of course they include linux, BSD, Open BeOS, Samba, Open office, Abiword, Gimp and everything else that is 100% free AND popular in their numbers. It inflates them and makes the lies they publish previousally look even better.

    Remember the Business Software Alliance is nothing more than a paid extortion racket. If they threaten your company you should never let them in without a judge-signed search warrant.

    They ARE NOT A GOVERNMENT AGENCY! Unlike OSHA who is, they have ZERO legal power and ZERO rights above what you have. Fight the bastards and make them spend their money to get in your building, and then be sure to sue for lost revinue, destruction of property, and public defamation.

    Thank you, This post is brought to you by the Council to stop freeware piracy. "Remember every time you pirate a freeware program you hurt...Ummm... well you hurt someone!"

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  19. There's the question of motivation... by leonbrooks · · Score: 5, Informative
    They do not have the intention of ripping off the public.

    That's debatable. What isn't debatable is that the vast majority of their income is derived from the huge fines etc that they levy even if their victim then buys a site licence.

    The motivation is all wrong: the BSA (and in Oz, the BSAA) stand to make more from hurting people than from helping software companies.

    Here in Oz at least, when they send an audit demand, the correct answer is `ummm...' followed by some hurried quick checking. If the checking ain't too disastrous, you proceed to `OK, send your guys around when you're ready' - you see, the EULA gives them the right to audit, not the right to force you to audit.

    If they do bother to come around, you make everything as difficult as possible, e.g. by only allowing them to audit a machine when the user is present (privacy regulations, you see), then arranging for a skeleton staff when they do arrive so that the minimum number of computers are available for checking, and make finding out who `owns' a computer as difficult as possible. Meanwhile, all the time, so sorry, wish we could hurry things along a little but can't break these rules.

    Depending on your situation, you should be able to cut them down to six computers a day or less. Over 3 working man-weeks to audit a hundred-screen shop. Make them earn their fines. And keep harping on about your reliable Linux servers, your bulletproof OpenBSD network machines, and how you're testing Linux Terminal Server technology for your desktops and wondering whether it's worthwhile cutting over to it...

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
  20. The problems I have with BSA audits are by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1) They don't need a warrant or anything like it. While I don't neessiarly think they need something like a search warrant, they should ahve to present a case to a judge showing that they have sufficient reason to believe that you do indeed have pirated software. Also, they should be limited (as in the case of a search warrant) to auditing the software packages they have evidence are pirated and nothing else.

    2) You have to pay for it. When the audit happens, your people have to prove to them that you have paid for your software. This costs money. They should be required to reimburse you for all staff time spent doing the audit. After all, they are the ones that want it done.

    3) There needs to be a reasonable age limit on software they can audit. I'd say no more than four yeats. You just can't keep records forever, after awhile they need to be destroyed to make space. I work for a university department that isn't too big (say 100-150 people total) and four years of our finincial records occupies a filing cabnet, several huge binders, and a number of boxes.

    Also, I don't know what they BSA accepts as "proof" but I feel that it needs to be whatever kind of record your company keeps (within reason). So if you have POs that show orders for the software, they need to accept that. Many software does not come with adiquate physical documentation of a liscence and for large orginazition there are no reciepts other than the PO papework often.

    Basically, from what I've read about BSA audits, I just feel they have too much authority. They should need to go to a judge, present convincing evidence that you have pirated software. All the software they want to audit must not be more than four years old. Then the judge issues an order for an audit, limited ot the software they presented a case for. Then, the BSA orders teh audit, and pays the costs. They are then reqired the accept the documentation your present, so long as it is reasonable (ie not handwritten notes).

    So if an employee reported that their company was pirating Windows 98 the BSA would have to take their sworn statement to a judge, the judge would then allow an audit for Windows 98 only. If then during the course of the audit the company produces credit card recipts proving they indeed purchased all their copies, the matter is over and the BSA has to go away, after reimbursing them for audit costs.

    If a system like this was the case, I'd have no real trouble. They couldn't then use audits as bully tactics and would only be able to go after people they had some reason to believe were breaking the law. I do think it's only fair given our country's presumption of innonce laws.

  21. Terminology by ratamacue · · Score: 5, Informative
    I suspect the BSA is run by rampant free market ideologues. ... they would probably say ... while open source may not be illegal, maybe it should be.

    As a "rampant free market ideologue" (Libertarian), I will be the first to point out that you have confused the meaning of free-market economics (i.e. capitalism), which implies the absence of government interference (coercion) in the market, with a hypothetical regulation, imposed through coercion, which happens to favor one particular group over another. Capitalism does not necessarily imply profit but only the absence of coercion in the market. Free market economics is grounded in voluntary cooperation, not coercion (which is the definining prerequisite of any government). Hence, open source software falls squarely into the category of free-market enterprise, and in fact, to a greater degree than any software vendor which relies on patent law to sustain a business model. (Patent law, you may be surprised to know, is contrary to the true principles of free market economics, because it is derived from coercion.)

    See free-market.net if you are interested...

  22. Yes, we do have proof . . . by SimplyCosmic · · Score: 3, Insightful
    RAruler said:
    The BSA supports draconian measures like the DMCA, they'd probably like even stricter legislation
    Billly Gates replied:
    Do you know this for a fact?
    From any of the number of BSA press releases:
    The DMCA was designed to promote a safe and legal online world while advancing the dynamic change that is synonymous with the Internet. Since the DMCA's enactment the evidence of the abundance of creative content available online is proof that the DMCA is working.
    Going through their press releases you'll even come across others promoting stricter legislation.

  23. Yes, the BSA makes up their statistics. by jpvlsmv · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Read their "State Piracy Study", particularly page 5 where they define their statistical methods.

    About their estimate of the "demand" for software:

    • "PC shipments by state were estimated from a detailed review of the employment and population of each state and market research that surveyed the PC penetration rate of each state."
    • "These estimates of software applications [...] were allowed to vary slightly by state. They were then applied to the state PC shipment estimates to form state-specific software demand estimates."
    About their estimate of the "supply" of software:
    • "This data was compiled only for software applications that were studied in the "2000 BSA Global Software Piracy Study". [...] The resulting shipment data was uplifted to reflect shipments for the entire software industry."
    The difference between "supply" and "demand" is defined to be the "piracy".

    For the retail value of the software (the larger number often quoted by the media) they added 22% on top of that.

  24. Microsoft's Free-Software Dichotomy by schmaltz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    On the one hand, Microsoft attacks free software (mainly because it's bad for Microsoft's business plans, so it seems.) On the other hand, while free software has a strong hold in certain sectors -and a bid for certain desktop uses- Microsoft continues to aggressively price upward their offerings to businesses.

    They're driving IT departments toward free software. Self-defeating in other words, particularly considering today's economy and business climate, where IT budgets are not faring well.

    --
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  25. Re:The Exception by MrResistor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And what about in third world countries. It sounds like they can not even install a proprietary operating system, simply because the price is not adjusted to their economy. No wonder piracy is such a large problem there. I see no ethical problem here, either.

    Many third world countries have no copyright law, and so discussions of piracy are totally inappropriate there. Without copyright there is no piracy, regardless of what is actually happening. This is another way that the BSA, et al, distort the truth of piracy. They list all this activity going on in countries that have no copyright law and call it piracy.

    Anyway, just a thought I figured I should throw into the mix.

    --
    Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.