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Reducing TCO of an Inkjet Printer?
AtariDatacenter asks: "Everyone knows that inkjet printers are cheap, but the cartridges cost a bundle. I was trying to find one with the lowest total cost of ownership for a modest twenty or so pages a week. This PC Magazine article kind of takes this on, but with a small sample group. Are there any printers today that should be avoided? Is ink reducing software like inkSaver as good as they claim?" Inkjets have a lot of drawbacks when it comes to laser printers except one thing: the initial price. When it comes to printing lots of text that you intend to keep for an indefinite period of time, which works out better over the short-term and long-term? I've already had Inkjet printers die after a few years of normal usage, are laser printers any better?
You can buy extremely high quality ink (or cheap ink) in bulk and use a continuous ink system. A lot of professional shops make use of these. Once I run the free cartridge that came with my Epson 1280 out I'll be adding one to my system.
The ink becomes a lot cheaper. I'll be using the archival inks from inkjetmall.com as well as their continuous ink system.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
I don't know if this is cheaper, but I do it this way...
First, find the cheapest printer you can...Circuit City has the Lexmark Z25 for $39.99 after rebate this week, but a better deal is at Office Max...Hewlett Packard DeskJet 825C for $49.99 (no rebate required), plus it's USB and it also comes with a free USB cable ($15 value).
And, don't worry about the speed of the printer, because if you wanted speed you'ld be buying a Laser Printer for much more $$$.
Then make sure you buy one of the InkJet refill kits...WalMart and CompUSA sell a Universal kit for Color and Black (seperately), but if you go to a Computer Show, you can buy a huge kit that should last you a while for the cost of both.
Now, sit back as the Printer pays for itself in saved cartridges. I don't know about you, but I'm reluctant to use refills on a $200 printer, but have no problems with doing it to a $50 printer. Most cartridges can be refilled 2 or 3 times before they go bad...this means that after only 6 refills, the printer should have paid for itself...
A few notes, in general, stay away from Lexmark and No-Name printers...try to stick with HP, Cannon, Epson, etc.
And don't worry about speed or resolution, if you wanted that, you'ld be buying a Laser Printer, and $$$ wouldn't be your first concern.
The whole idea of this is that Moore's Law works for you here...by the time you need to get a new printer, you can get something much better for the lower price...
Those fucking inkjets will bleed your wallet dry.
I know of one place where a perfectly good HP laserjet is only metres away, but this person insists on using a personal inkjet.
The mind boggles.
Just say no.
Get one that uses the same cartigages as where you work.
I've Noticed printers for under $50 for sale all over the place and I own one. The refills for my printer cost about $60 for colour and $50 for black (it uses 2 cartridges side by side) and i've been thinking if it comes with 2 free cartridges why not buy a new one every time you run of of ink and sell the old one on e-bay. -Ben
---PRESS ANY KEY TO CONTINUE---
"Now, where's the damn 'any' key?"
One thing to consider for laser printers for home use, at least in my experiance with older HP LaserJets... they will dim your rooms lights every 10-15 mins as they power up to warm the toner. I worry what this does to the poor PC feeding off this power.
Sometimes I wonder about PC Magazine. Sometimes I wonder if they have hidden agendas. Here's a quote from the article:
"We've added $25 for the cost of the USB printer cable..."
USB cables are less than $3.00 wholesale. If PC Magazine is helping us, why is it helping retailers make outrageous profits on cables?
While I swear by HP business printers in general for sheer rock solid stability and longevity (note the phrase "business printers" there), the one model that is starting to scare me is the Hewlett-Packard LaserJet III. Those monsters are the size of several modern sedans, and the *will* *not* *stop*. I keep seeing them in offices - sometimes not in use, in a supply closet, whereupon I'll ask and be told "yeah, it works fine when we last plugged it in, we just got new printers". I swear that to stop one of these things, you have to freeze it and ship it to the Arctic.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Step 1. Rent Office Space.
Step 2. Beat the hell out of your inkjet while listening to gangsta rap.
Step 3. Find a decent used HP laserjet. Older 'office model' HPs are built like tanks. I've found a few with page counts into the 100-200 thousand range that still print fine. Look around and you can find refurbed IIs, IIIs, and 4Ps for about a hundred bucks. With a bit more effort you can pick up free IIs and IIIs from small offices cleaning their closets. They might need a fuser or rollers but the work is easy and the parts are usually cheap.
On a 4P (the personal sized version of the 4 series) the toner lasts about 4000 pages. At 20 pages a week you can get nearly four years out of a $70 toner cartrige. Since a lot of refurbs come with some toner, you might spend a hundred bucks for the printer and be printing for a couple of years.
Now that is a reduced TCO...
OK, I'm only posting here 'cos, I was trying to moderate a post in this thread and it turns out I fingered someone as "Redundant" when I was trying for "Insightful", so the only way to erase that is to post in this thread.
I got nothing to add to this thread but the lesson here is, don't "moderate" when you're tired...
Perfectly Normal Industries
- It had to print well under Linux
- I wanted to use colour most of the time
- Ink replacement had to be cheap-ish
That said, I selected the Epson Colour Stylus 670, used Mandrake (right after they upgraded to using CUPS), and bought those colour refill kits another poster mentioned.I killed it in 14 months. I did a lot of printing, and the print heads were completely shot by the very end.
I've thrown out that printer. I've used plenty of printers over the years, and I have to second JabberWokky's assertions. Essentially, LJIIIs render colour printing unnecessary, and my old objections have no relevance today.
LJIIIs *are* built like tanks, and the technologies behind them are very well understood now. The fact that HP supports Linux doesn't hurt, either. True, they don't print colour, and new cartridges can be expensive. However, refurbished cartridges aren't dear any longer, and if I had just found an old LJIII I'm sure it would still be in use. You can often find them at auction houses, or in the classifieds, or eBay.
Upshot, get a used LJIII and print a test page or two to check the quality. You probably will be satisfied.
========================================
Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
I'm using an IBM 4019 laser printer. This printer is easily nearly as old as I am -- it was originally hooked up to some type of a 286, than an IBM PS/2, and now to my system.
The 2MB of onboard RAM isn't a lot, and it only has 3 fonts onboard, but the toner cartridge (While costing about $100) is good for between 10,000 and 15,000 pages.
I believe the printer cost $999 when new. It hasn't needed a single replacement part (not even new toner -- same toner it came with) since purchase. Of course, your mileage may vary. Older equipment seems to have been designed to last longer because it was more expensive -- you couldn't afford to replace a printer if it broke, you got it fixed, and they designed them not to break.
Now a days, everything is field replaceable -- which usually means swap the whole unit out for a working one. Cheaper that way.
It beat anything I know of but a continuous ink system.
:-(
However, the series is really old (1992 or so?) and mine really needs a new pickup roller. 720 dpi if you can wait...
I remember tests showing 100% coverage of over 125 pages in colour before the cartridge ran out. Black was more. And at just $25-$30 a cartridge, the price is right.
Basically, what I'm saying is look for a printer with BIG cartridges, and check the price of 'em. This printer had the largest cartridges I've ever seen for under $40 and I was happy to buy it, even if it was $700 or so at the time!
For some reason (greed, I suppose) cartridges have gotten punier and punier over time. I expect eventually they'll be the size of coins and cost $100.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
And that's a trick in which PC Magazine participates, rather than tell their readers to prepare for the attempted rip-off and tell them where to get cheap cables.
20 pages a week? That's a resonably substansial amount of printing.
- In color, an inkjet will cost you (rough estimate) $2 to $3/week at that rate. That's not taking the cost of special paper into account. (Ask yourself if you need color -- what are you going to use it for?)
- At the same rate, a used LaserJet will cost you roughly 50 for the same number of pages.
- Laser printers produce a lot better output on cheap paper. Inkjets sometimes require paper that costs more than blank CD-Rs! ($1.00/sheet for photo quality paper!)
There certainly are reasons for an inkjet, too. You can't beat the entry price, but it's a Gillette business model -- lose money on the razors (printer), make (lots!) of money on the blades (ink). I recently heard tell a rumor about a disposable (recyclable?) inkjet -- the whole printer was cheaper than 2 replacement cartridges! (Ouch!)Really important point:
If you really need color, an inkjet is hard to beat.
- HP Inkjet printers can "mix" ink to create better-blended colors on a page. (I don't think they're alone in this capability, either.) HP calls it "Color Layering" -- it works because injets dyes and pigments aren't completely opaque, where laserprinter toner is.
- Color laser printers are limited to placing 4 different colors of toner next to each other and letting your eye perceive something that's not really there. Sure, you could stack pixels just like an inkjet, but instead of blending colors, you'd just see the one on top (best case), or a melted brown smear (worst case).
- Other side of the coin: Dyes fade. Pigments (for the most part) don't. This is why you can still dig out 20-year-old laserjet-printed material and it's perfectly readable. Print out a picture of your cat on an inkjet, leave it tacked up in your cube, and print out a new one -- same printer, same file -- a year later. You'll notice the fading.
Okay, last point: The Minolta (QMS) Magicolor 2200 color laser. Office Depot sells 'em for $999. Listed on Pricewatch (refurbished) for just shy of $800. 1200 x 600 dpi, 20 PPM B&W, 5 PPM Color. Even comes Ethernet-ready. Yes, it's expensive, but it seems like people drop that much on (new | upgrade) parts for their computer every 6 months.There are some inkjets moving to pigment-based instead of dye-based inks. (It's a premium expense, though.) The output from these is supposed to be colorfast for much longer periods, but I haven't seen this first-hand.
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
Epson's ink congeals on contact with most generic inks and jams up the ink path, often irreparably. This problem is mega, since Epsons have the printing unit built into the printer, not the cartridge as with HP carts.
I've not had a problem with mixing different kinds of generic ink however, so as long as an Epson never tastes an Epson cart, you're good to go.
It's also worth mentioning that there are replacement assemblies available for the epsons, which use tubes going from specially modified print heads to individual pint-sized ink reservoirs which sit in a box beside the printer. If you get one of these, you can print something like ten thousand pages of color without refilling.
Says the RIAA: When you EQ, you're stealing bass!
http://www.lmcomp.com/printer-cartridges---generic -for-epson-inkjet-printers.html
Still, I only use this printer for low-volume printing, so costs are very low.
Lemme see:
Q. How does Bresenham's Algorithm work?
A. Bresenham's Algorithm uses technology to analyze and control line data. It uses an advanced algorithm, optimzing line data so that less floating point is used everytime you draw a line.
Oh, that answered my question.
Don't call it a FAQ when it's a press release!
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
First off, I picked up couple used laser printers - a couple of HP laserjet 4M+ w/fonts, network, and extra ram for about $75 each. They are pretty quick, do a great job with black and white, and I will get many thousand pages of copy from the toner it came with, with refurbs running about $50 each when the time comes.
On the bad side, these things take a fair amount of power. I plugged the thing into my wife's office and the UPS in my home's server room clicked on. DON'T EVER PLUG ONE INTO A UPS! You may have to run an extra line of power into the room.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Especially the old Apples and HPs... I know of lots of old Apple Laserwriter IIs that have been in constant office use for, well, what is it, 10 years now. Lots of metal parts -- they weigh a ton, too. If you keep them clean, they just go forever. The only trouble with these old tanks is that they're slow... newer laser printers may be faster (way more onboard memory, ethernet) but I wonder about the quality of the construction, plastic parts, etc.
Preferably on based on the Old Canon Laser Printer engine in the HP LaserJet II/III. These things run forever and cost $0.03/page to print plus electricity. They print well on okay paper. The print quickly. If you are running Linux I would recommend something like the Nec Silentwriter 2 290 or 990 which had postscript and PCL emulation. a2ps prints 8~9 pages a minute on my Nec without a problem.
Chris
Careful. The cartridges included with HP printers are only filled half way.
And your point is what? It doesn't matter if the carts are filled half-way or filled entirely. When they run out you are still going to have to drop $50+ to replace them. So why bother buying full carts for over $50 when you can simply buy an entire printer for $50? I'd rather just keep replacing my printer. Personally I (and I suspect many people) don't print enough that it makes a difference how full the carts are. I pratically have to buy new ones everytime I need to print something since the ink has dried up.
continuous inking systems allow you to modify your inkjet to use external pressure fed ink bottles. you can buy the ink by the pound(!), and only fill those colors which need refilling. most vendors also offer a range of specialty inks, and archival quality inks if you're a photographer trying to sell the print. google shows me a few like this:
http://www.getink.com
http://www.inkjetart.com/cis/index.html
http://www.nomorecarts.com
http://mediastreet.com/n2
We've got an 8550 at work and it is a nice printer. It takes a bit to get the first page out, especially if you've let the power save mode kick in. If you get one get the ethernet adapter for it, those nice full color prints take forever over the parallel port.
Bleh!
Well, it's good to know that printer sucks. I'd noticed them, but never really considered one. My reaction to seeing one was more of "Gee, would you look at that. Color laser for $1000. (I wonder what corners they had to cut?)" The features are moderately impressive, but (no surprise, really) they don't have 'em plugged in so you can get a demo page.
Personally, I'd love to have an HP 8550 (11x17, 24 PPM, ~$7000), but I'll have to wait until (1) they hit the used market, or (2) I win the lottery.
HP has a bunch of nice color lasers, and don't forget Xerox -- they've been doing the toner-on-paper thing for longer than I've been around. I imagine they have a few nice products as well.
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
The HP 8550 doesn't have quality like the HP 4500 series. They print a lot faster, but every one that i have seen prints a lot worse quality than their younger brother.
i hate pansy republicans
Well here is the simple 2-step solution I chose for this dilemma. 1) Determine just how much you really *need* color. For me the answer to this was mainly to print out digital photos or occasional projects for my son. The rest (vast majority) of my printing needs could be met with b&w/grayscale. 2)Keep your injet for above and purchase an inexpensive laser. I found that the Samsung ML 1210 works great...even grayscale and color links from the web (despite what some reviewers say). I got it for $129 after rebate from Best Buy(and, no, I don't work for BB).
or better yet, i've seen xerox offers for laser color printers were you get black toner free for life (something like 2 cart. a month. so you sell your extra cart or whatever nesecery to cover the cost of the machine and the color carts :)
-- botsex is {grep;touch;strip;unzip;head;mount}