Do You Know Where You Live?

An anonymous submitter writes "Thanks to GPS, it seems quite a few people are discovering they don't live where they thought. Prior to GPS, state, county and city borders were part law, part measurement, and part guesswork. Now, they're able to go back and discover where actual borders should be, and it's making many people unhappy. Some familes in Rhode Island are finding out they may actually live in Connecticut. Each state, county and city wants as much land as possible, because it means more tax income. The people caught in the middle simply want to know where they'll send their kids for school."

Comments

Related problem

[JUSTONEMORELATTE]

I used to work in the Oil-n-Gas business (petroleum, not Taco Bell) and that industry is grappling with the same question about well spotting -- the exact surface location of a well. Historically, they are identified via footage calls from a known location (e.g. 354' N, 287' E of SW corner of such-n-such)
While the state agencies would love to have nice, precise lat-lon coords, the property owners often refuse access to the survey crews because an accurate survey may show that the property line is incorrect, and Farmer Smith never really owned the well, it's on Farmer Johnson's land.
The real financial impact can be huge.

Re:Related problem

[maeka]

Let a surveyor (try to) clear this one up.

Adverse possession is the term for the situation. It's entirely up to the decision of the courts, but a few things they take into account are:

1. The encroachment must be open and known to both parties.
2. Intent of the original deed does hold weight
3. Platted land (i.e. lots) is almost never subject to adverse possession - boundaries were set forth in the original plat, (you'll see your deed most likely referring to lot #x of So-and-so's subdivision in Plat Book y)
4. Who pays taxes has little if not nothing to do with deciding the argument. The auditor is not the recorder. Auditor's map boundaries ALWAYS close, even if they have to force it, they are not always precise to the recorded legal description of a parcel.
5. The time period for adverse possession is usually 50 years.

Re:Related problem

[pod]

I don't want to know what state YOU live in.

The described situation is called trespass. If someone can't be on your land without your permission, or can be removed by you if you so wish, you can use necessary force to remove them. Out in the middle of nowhere this usually means waving around a rifle or a shutgun.

Re:Borders

[Medevo]

If you read history, in about 1900 Canada and the USA were fighting over Alaska (and those coastal regions). Since Canada was still pretty much a British colony the British and Americans formed a group of 5 (2 Americans, 2 British, 1 Canadian) that heard arguments from both sides, and were to vote based on the arguments. In the End the British decided to vote for the Americans to help improve relations (this is one of many times the British sold of Canada to create favors for themselves).

Medevo

Re:use common sense...

[stoolpigeon]

such as taxes, etc, that's fine...they don't directly effect your day-to-day life

You must not have a job yet.

There is also a lot more than taxes or schools involved that directly impact peoples daily lives. State laws can vary greatly. I'm in the middle of my state. But what if I lived near some other state and suddenly things I own are illegal (I've got a rifle that would fit this easily in some places)

This is a pretty big deal and I think what will have to utlimately happen is people will need to move if they really don't want to live where they really live.

Re:use common sense...

[Zapman]

The problem with this is that both RI and Conn. are planning on sending taxes to these residences, and BOTH expect to collect. If they don't they will take these people to court in either RI or Conn, where they will be guilty.

What do you do in that case? It certainly will impact you, especially if one state is a tourism state (collects lots of revenue from sales tax) and the other is a property tax state.

--Jason

RI Surveyors

[electric_yak]

I used to work for a surveyor in RI, and this situation doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Surveying is really more than just right-angle trig, it also involves a careful assesment of existing markers, the path of previous surveyors, and "known-good" boundaries to measure from (ones whose choice will be accepted by a court). In a rural town like Hopkinton, there are no good comprehensive plans to reference-you have to search back in the title records (in some cases, back to the 1640s) when "legal deed" could be as vague as "my property is five rods by the Old North Road on the west, five rods by Farmer Joe's land to the North, seventeen-hundred cubits by the land of Cooper Ptarmigan III in the east, and finally five rods bordered on the south by the property of the Widow Fenimore, now deceased, to the Old North Road and the point and place of beginning."

The rest of the properties in town are similarly well-described, which means you have to start your measurements further away from the actual property you are concerned with, in some cases, starting in New York would be a good idea:) The local governments tax property on the assessor's best guess of how much land you own, so there is no incentive for accurate public land data. Hell, the City of Providence can't even prove where it's own north border is-most of the markers are gone and the records are non-existant.

Oh, and one final thing: until GPS receivers have 1/100" precision _and_ accuracy, don't expect measurements taken using one to stand up in court-adjudicated property dispute.

Re:use common sense...

[Dynedain]

But where does that funding come from to pay for the kid's schooling? Property taxes. No state is going to want to take a decrease in their property taxes without the associated decrease in students. So a change in tax structure will affect everyday lives. The money to pay for that kid's education doesn't just appear out of loopholes, and it would cost more to transfer the money between states than it does to send that kid to school.

And what happens when the parents have another kid? Does he/she go to the same school or to one in their "new" state? How long does it get grandfathered? One generation? One continuous family line? Does it stick with the property? If so, then give the property to the state where the people are using the tax money.

And there's more than just taxes to fund schools...you also have roads, sewer, zoning issues, etc. etc. etc....

Part of why the US isn't a true democracy is because the majority typically overules the minority. So, by correcting state lines, some 50 people out of a combined population of a couple million are affected....an extremely small minority that probably won't notice much of a difference anyways.

Re:Borders

[Rolker]

Why did the quebecois have to steal the "poutine" name from a traditional Acadian dish? Don't they have any creativity? Here's a real poutine!