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What is Holding SAP-DB Back?
Derek Neighbors queries: "The current story about MySQL 4.0 has erupted into a Postgres vs. MySQL debate. We at GNU Enterprise, who have used about all Free and Propietary databases, would like to know why exactly people arent using SAP-DB? It clearly is on par with Oracle, is GPL and frankly has an awesome support team in SAP AG. There was a PG vs SAP-DB recently. Someone else mentioned that you can get CDROMs for free. So again the question is 'What exactly is hindering a wider acceptance of SAP-DB in Free/Open Software projects?'"
sapdb needs a lot of effort to set up and create a
database, sometimes even worse than the magic juju you need to go through with Oracle.
What surprises me more actually is that Interbase/Firebird is not more successfull.
It is free and as simple to set up/use as mysql in my opinion, but avoids most of the
mysql limitations.
that SAP DB isn't supported out of the box by Java, Perl, or PHP, etc. but one quick glance shows they support Perl through DBD::ODBC, have an ODBC driver suitable for PHP, and supply a JDBC driver for Java programs.
so now i'm wondering what the catch is. too big? bloated? slow?
well, the minimum requirements on Linux list a base memory footprint of 128 MB. MySQL runs on just about the smallest box you own, and most people tinkering with MySQL are on budgets of $0, meaning, no new bigger boxes for a long, long time.
MORTAR COMBAT!
One thing that bothers the hell out of me is that no DB out there is easier to setup and use than MS SQL server...
In my job I have used literally every DB out there and none of them are easier to setup than Microsoft. It also the easiet to use from the application side. With oracle and other db's you need to know all kinds of listener and config info about where you dbase is. With MS and a few others you just need the servername and dbname and it works. Thats how things should be.
I am quite happy with the way MySQL is coming along.. they finally have a decent admin interface and the other feature they have needed for years... now if installation and usage were just a bit easier they could really compete.
The company I work for uses alot of open source software in it's development - both in terms off server side (linux, apache, etc) and for the application side (Tomcat, JServ, etc).
We don't use SAP-DB because:
I dare say that if we had a pressing business case to learn the extra skill (i.e. we required some of it's fetures on a project that hadn't got the Oracle budget) then we'd consider it.
Then again there are other Dbs that would also cut it in that case too.
MYSQL has a big name in terms of Open Source software and that alone may prevent people from switching from it in favour of a less well known 'brand'.
Better the pride that resides in a Citizen of the world, than the pride that divides when a colourful rag is unfurled
It's "Industry Standard". /. about a MySQl update feature. People didn't give a shit.
I mentioned Firebird the other day when a guy asked
We use what we're used to, even if it's outdated or pointless. Other stuff is of no interest, Try telling a guy the advantages about Linux over WinXP and you'll know what I mean.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I know you're responding to someone else's claim about SAP-DB being on par with Oracle, but the meaningful question is whether SAP-DB deserves more recognition as a free software database solution, isn't it? What do you do if you need to work on your primary database machine and you're running PostgreSQL? You take the machine down in a maintenance window, and if necessary, put up a secondary machine that is "manual standby."
SAP-DB is pretty much the back end of SAP's commercial systems like SAP R/3. I'm sure there are things that Oracle does that SAP-DB doesn't (just like there are systems that actually do things Oracle doesn't, even though your Oracle sales rep won't admit it), but it's difficult to argue that the system doesn't have credibility in the enterprise.
It also supports Microsoft's cluster server on Windows, with failover; they're working on a cross-platform solution for hot standby, according to the website. It does have a batch mode replication manager, too, at least.
Large parts of SAPDB seem to be written in Pascal, which is processed by a transpiler to generate C code. This makes debugging complicated. In addition, the whole build environment (the transpiler, the project-specific make tool, and so on) have only been released as free software quite recently. This might explain why SAPDB doesn't attract developers from the free software community, but it doesn't explain why it doesn't take the user community by storm.
I hope to be able to use SAPDB some day, if PostgreSQL ever breaks for us. Currently, there's nothing pushing us away from PostgreSQL and SAPDB lacks quite a few features we like in PostgreSQL (the extensible type system, which allows us to store IP addresses directly, for example). The documentation seems to unclear in quite a few areas, too. In addition, it seems that native (non-ODBC) backends are no longer supported by SAPDB.
Theres an interesting parallel to that one. In Australia, there is the Fosters brand , which only tourists drink, as it's generally accepted to be shiet. There is also the much loved 'crown' brand.
Recently the glassie at my local bar told me that they where the same beer. I didn't believe him, so he did a test. He poured me a crownie and a fosters, and got me to blind compare them. I could not tell the difference. The moral here is that taste is *socially constructed*. That is in non sociology talk, we base our likes and perceptions on the social environment that we are exposed to. It's a wierd thing.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
SAP is sweet in that it is incredibly easy to control the flow of money and goods around a system, but everything requires customization. This is not OTS software. A typical install takes 2 years, and just handling an upgrade will be the hardest 4-5 days of your life. We did 3.1H to 4.6B in a 3 system (development, quality assurance, production) landscape in 2 weeks, and I think we darned near set a record.
SAP is definately only for really large commodity driven companies. If I were the CTO of a medium size business, I would not use an ERP like SAP. I'd use something much lighter weight. Of course, if I were Amazon, Dell, Anheiser-Busch, Pepsico, etc. I would be using SAP. Nothing else comes close when you need to know what, where, when, and how much.
-WS
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
Bzzt! wrong again... clients don't use oracle for their support (that's what trained dba's are for), or their db. They use them for their apps.
Oracle isn't about db's, only partially about support (to sell you more apps), and most definitely 95% about their application solutions.
Oracle could switch over to postgres is they wished and except for PR issues, it wouldn't significally change their ability to supply solutions to companies that need them.
It's just that for 99.9% of companies out there the apps are just way overkill... must people can get by with postgres or mysql with custom written stuff or downloaded stuff and do just fine. Of course give the open source community a few more years and there will be off the shelf apps that will rivel those of Oracle, I'd be willing to bet.
Toddlers are the stormtroopers of the Lord of Entropy.
1) Their site has a bunch of advertising hype for how wonderful the DBMS is but almost zero real content;
2) It is from and controlled by SAP. I have worked with these people in the past and I deeply distrust their code and processes;
3) Life is short. I have no time for YADB that has no compelling advantages that I can see;
4) I believe in the importance of things like replication and objrect-relational features that SAP puts down as irrelevant.