The benefit depends on the person using it. Take an investment bank and an algorithmic trading system. Most of your money is made on volume, the faster you reply the more deals you get, the more volume you have, the more money you make. I've seen a lot of presentations at investment banks where every 5 milliseconds they shave off is $50+ million/year more money they make. Keep in mind that most of these companies have gotten to the point where they can do round trip for the whole trade transaction in 5 milliseconds or less. So each millisecond is like a 20% improvement.
Re:Off Topic but figure I would ask your perl guys
on
Perl 6 Essentials
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· Score: 1
Yeah... I came to the same conclusion... I would have though someone would have tackled the problem before now though...
Off Topic but figure I would ask your perl guys...
on
Perl 6 Essentials
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· Score: 0, Offtopic
Can someone tell me if there is a perl to java code converter out there? Open source or proprietary is fine....
If not can someone tell me what the difficulty in writing one would be?
Missing features! Where is UDDI support?
on
Eclipse in Action
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· Score: 1
Can someone point me at a UDDI plugin for Eclipse? That is one of the features I most need that they are lacking.
Yeah, it looks good on a crt... but what makes it look so much better is they really went all out with cleartype integration in the new version of office. All documents are show in cleartype first. (in case you don't know Cleartype is a set of fonts+ui contstructs that are designed to impove viewing quality especially on flatscreen type devices.)
Been using it for about 9 months... Trust me it works great. Especially if you have a nice flatscreen. Between the improved look and feel and the "real" XML integration this is truly the first office upgrade thats worth it since office 97.
Still not good enough for enterprise...
on
Opengroupware
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· Score: 4, Insightful
This still doesn't cut it for really big enterprise. Exchange has excellent features for things like VOip, blackberry, etc. That this solution simply can't meet... now or in the next few years.
That being said it is nice to see that there is an option for mid-sized businesses finally. They were the ones who really got nailed by the MSFT tax.
Education is supposed to be a much more immersive experience, in which your entire world is focused upon whatever subjects your learning for certain spans of time Bullsh*t... if that was true your first year would be science/math, second year english+humanites, third semester trivial crap, fourth year something somewhat related to the degree...
All college before graduate is a joke... and your immersive experience is crap... most elite people learn more on their own than they ever ever will from a class. Only at the MS/PHD levels is it worth it to have a teacher and then only to tell you what types of ideas have been tried/shot down.
I meant you can't tell the windows location in relation to other windows(not created the thread). For instance maybe I want to add a tool box(separate application) that is aligned directly to the side of the IE browser but not actually in the same window.(just one example.)
The above is actually a security flaw. I can use the same trick to read data off any window which I shouldn't be able to do. It is nice though that use can use the windows apis to get access to any forms based control any any window regardless of wether you wrote the application or not... makes it handy as hell when you need to write a program to extract data from some proprietary application.
It's also easier to get screen resolution, add items to sys tray and some other things...(all of which can be hacked around in java).
PS. Sorry about being snide. Been dealing with far too many idiotic VB programmers recently.
Funny thing that... You would think that with all the fallout from the dot com era that most of them would have gone and found another industry to work in... that so many are still around just defies common sense... and I agree that can justify the most idiotic things... "I can too write a native NT service that transimits data using completion ports in vb6...." agh!!!
You wouldn't want to use absolute layout management in java. Since you can't tell where the window and its state relative to the desktop... (which is a nice feature of MSFT... although one with certain security implications.;-)
You give fairly bad examples. The path thing was bad application coding on MSFT's side. Modal dialog boxes are also bad application coding.(has nothing to do with the API) I was mearly talking about the UI. OSX UI wasn't implemented in JAVA so you have still failed to show me a Java alternative.(I freely admitted there were other linux based api's that were as good.)
Also you critized my use of direct placement when I told you my solution to your very criticism. My solution(using a layout control that auto resizes/moves every control on the form) resizes correctly and I never had to worry about aligning left + x amount of space, etc... Its just faster and less hassle in development.(I hate writing GUI's so anything that makes it easier is better for me)
Haven't used swing in over 18 months. It was a great improvement over AWT which was useless but it is still slow for many things.(albeit that could be the sheer amount of ram it needs and all the paging). Don't know about you but I'm tired of the fact that every time I use a swing based app(like some of the popular IDE's) I need a minimum of 512mb of ram. I use a lot of differnt machines and some of them I can't alter the hardware config on.(like machines at work, and no I can't just demand a new machine).
PS. Don't be snide... Any developer that has used windows forms for any length of time has used VB. It was the ultimate tool for banging out windows UIs. Doesn't mean I didn't write ATL based COM objects or that I haven't written a lot of java. (I'm mostly write middleware so you have to be flexible in languages)
I still can't get over how thick this statement is. Aparently MVC is only for application developers and not GUI API developers?
Yes. V = View after all. The GUI is the view. What should the GUI api also implement MVC?
MVC isn't the solution to everything. There are other patterns out there more appropriate for other types of software design. I would put forth that MVC might not be the best way to design a GUI api... Design a GUI yes... and API? no...
As for forms you make a good point about how many of the form controls store the data... but just as many have a databinding model where you can bind them to your model. Even if they didn't you could write the control code to clear the state and update.
I think the ASP.NET forms rock. Much better than JSP.(Although JSP plus Struts is about equal. MSFT tools are more efficent right now for that type of development but some of the stuff coming from BEA and IBM are correcting that.)
I found you comments amusing about how layouts suck in windows forms... That has always been my feel about awt/swing. Why the hell should I align things left and right? Top/bottom? I want direct placement... I don't wont to align it to anything... Then just drop one of those controls in that automatically scales the distance and size correctly and your done. There is a reason that windows UI's kick ass... and it ain't swing... Take a look at any office 2003 application and tell me it isn't beautiful to look at... Windows forms rock...(and yes I know you can reimplement that look and feel in swing but it's insanely slow, memory intensive comparatively and quite difficult to do besides.)
I so agree. Although adding in IM is a little more sophiticated but several of the digital dashboard products could do it. Bottom line, this is nothing new.
This reminds me of the digital dashboard concept from MSFT and others a while back. Basically the dashboard aggregated email, stock feeds, etc... and displayed it all together... Reuters, Avaya, and some other companies even came up with slick features to display IM, and Voicemail inside the email discussion thread as well.
I really don't see this as anything new or noteworthy... Seems like they got a long way to go.
The Windows Forms API looks like it was designed by a 12 year old. Not MVC based making it horrible to work with if you want to do anything complicated.
Makes me wonder if you even understand what MVC means? You as the developer should implement the MVC pattern for your app. The Forms API is great. In my opinion it still doesn't really have an equal in Java. I would even put forth that linux doesn't have anything better... maybe equal... but not better...
Yeah, I can't understand why anyone would like to get paid a lot of money working with a bunch of bright people at a company who can change the world.;-) Quit being silly...
Be glad Miguel went the route he did. It is one of the best things that could have happened to the open source community.
Oh, and your comment on the windows registry is misplaced... Do you remember windows before the registry???? A million little ini files... Drove me nuts... The biggest problem with the registry is that it should have been implemented as protected XML file. That way you could do fast compare and replaces when you need to. But you can't argue that it doesn't have good structure and that it wasn't desperately needed.
A lot of the web service intermediaries have these kind of capabilities... You plug in their agents on the network and they slowly become aware of each other through message exchange. When one section of the network goes down the agents talk to each other to figure out which agent can be used to relay a message around the broken link.
It's really wierd to be up in layer 7 and see the same modeling of behavior of lower layers in the stack...
If you want Mozilla to be usable by corporations you got to support NTLM.
I have worked for numerous corporations that have hundreds if not thousands of applications written using NTLM. They can't recode these applications(cost and time issues) and we shouldn't expect them to. Instead we should make the browser support what is out there.
In fact I remember a meeting where someone brought up the fact that the html design of an application wasn't compliant with Open Source browsers. One of the people in the meeting made a comment that it was a moot point because open source browsers were unusable because they couldn't support NTLM so there was no point in worrying about it till they did.
You'll notice that FUD is everywhere... One of the things that all tech geeks suffer from is that they like to fight religious battles.
I admit to being guilt of this as well... Whenever I hear someone arguing for Windows or Linux I frequently take the other side of the arguement just so I don't hear useless religous babble...
My point is that you shouldn't be surprised if someone takes these sides. Even if they are wrong. It's just a flaw in most technical people... Time usually cures it since arguing for a technology solution that isn't a good fit usually results in something blowing up in you face.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but MS SQL is in every enterprise data center I know. In fact it is slowing taking many of them over... I know of several companies with 700+ MS SQL db servers in house.
Developers tend to write things that sit on top of this infrastructure. Examples being: Office / Email / Instant Messaging(although this requires both programmers and developers), and yes the badly designed HR application.
There are bad programmers and bad application developers. But when an application is written the right way it can actually make the company money!
My point is still the same... Both kinds of people are neccessary and both are just as important.
Sorry, my fault that I didn't explain myself well enough.
I thought the java syntax was fine... I just never liked the apis(UI apis were a joke, data access sucked as well),the tools sucked as well(slightly better now) , and last but not least.net is about MULTIPLE LANGUAGE SUPPORT. That is why I like it better than java. I could code in c++/vb/C#/cobol etc... and it all works well together and it can run on multiple platforms!!!!! I work in a large IT group and do you know how many differnt languages/platforms we have???? Way to many. I need to be able to leverage my infrastructure and exisiting code base..Net allows me to do this. Java doesn't. In my mind that means java was not the answer to my problem.
My BIGGEST issue with Java was that it was a NEW language. But I must admit that at current mono only supports C#... the future should fix this however... that was why XIMIAN backed it...
Your also clueless.... Those vb programmers ARE just as valuable as the people who can craft inline assembler into their c routines...
There are programmers and there are application developers. They are two completely different animals. Each one has that use. Quite being so narrow minded.
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The benefit depends on the person using it. Take an investment bank and an algorithmic trading system. Most of your money is made on volume, the faster you reply the more deals you get, the more volume you have, the more money you make. I've seen a lot of presentations at investment banks where every 5 milliseconds they shave off is $50+ million/year more money they make. Keep in mind that most of these companies have gotten to the point where they can do round trip for the whole trade transaction in 5 milliseconds or less. So each millisecond is like a 20% improvement.
Yeah... I came to the same conclusion... I would have though someone would have tackled the problem before now though...
Can someone tell me if there is a perl to java code converter out there? Open source or proprietary is fine....
If not can someone tell me what the difficulty in writing one would be?
Can someone point me at a UDDI plugin for Eclipse? That is one of the features I most need that they are lacking.
Yeah, it looks good on a crt... but what makes it look so much better is they really went all out with cleartype integration in the new version of office. All documents are show in cleartype first. (in case you don't know Cleartype is a set of fonts+ui contstructs that are designed to impove viewing quality especially on flatscreen type devices.)
Been using it for about 9 months... Trust me it works great. Especially if you have a nice flatscreen. Between the improved look and feel and the "real" XML integration this is truly the first office upgrade thats worth it since office 97.
This still doesn't cut it for really big enterprise. Exchange has excellent features for things like VOip, blackberry, etc. That this solution simply can't meet... now or in the next few years.
That being said it is nice to see that there is an option for mid-sized businesses finally. They were the ones who really got nailed by the MSFT tax.
Education is supposed to be a much more immersive experience, in which your entire world is focused upon whatever subjects your learning for certain spans of time
Bullsh*t... if that was true your first year would be science/math, second year english+humanites, third semester trivial crap, fourth year something somewhat related to the degree...
All college before graduate is a joke... and your immersive experience is crap... most elite people learn more on their own than they ever ever will from a class. Only at the MS/PHD levels is it worth it to have a teacher and then only to tell you what types of ideas have been tried/shot down.
Get off your high horse...
I meant you can't tell the windows location in relation to other windows(not created the thread). For instance maybe I want to add a tool box(separate application) that is aligned directly to the side of the IE browser but not actually in the same window.(just one example.) The above is actually a security flaw. I can use the same trick to read data off any window which I shouldn't be able to do. It is nice though that use can use the windows apis to get access to any forms based control any any window regardless of wether you wrote the application or not... makes it handy as hell when you need to write a program to extract data from some proprietary application. It's also easier to get screen resolution, add items to sys tray and some other things...(all of which can be hacked around in java).
PS. Sorry about being snide. Been dealing with far too many idiotic VB programmers recently.
Funny thing that... You would think that with all the fallout from the dot com era that most of them would have gone and found another industry to work in... that so many are still around just defies common sense... and I agree that can justify the most idiotic things... "I can too write a native NT service that transimits data using completion ports in vb6...." agh!!!
You wouldn't want to use absolute layout management in java. Since you can't tell where the window and its state relative to the desktop... (which is a nice feature of MSFT... although one with certain security implications. ;-)
You give fairly bad examples. The path thing was bad application coding on MSFT's side. Modal dialog boxes are also bad application coding.(has nothing to do with the API) I was mearly talking about the UI. OSX UI wasn't implemented in JAVA so you have still failed to show me a Java alternative.(I freely admitted there were other linux based api's that were as good.)
Also you critized my use of direct placement when I told you my solution to your very criticism. My solution(using a layout control that auto resizes/moves every control on the form) resizes correctly and I never had to worry about aligning left + x amount of space, etc... Its just faster and less hassle in development.(I hate writing GUI's so anything that makes it easier is better for me)
Haven't used swing in over 18 months. It was a great improvement over AWT which was useless but it is still slow for many things.(albeit that could be the sheer amount of ram it needs and all the paging). Don't know about you but I'm tired of the fact that every time I use a swing based app(like some of the popular IDE's) I need a minimum of 512mb of ram. I use a lot of differnt machines and some of them I can't alter the hardware config on.(like machines at work, and no I can't just demand a new machine).
PS. Don't be snide... Any developer that has used windows forms for any length of time has used VB. It was the ultimate tool for banging out windows UIs. Doesn't mean I didn't write ATL based COM objects or that I haven't written a lot of java. (I'm mostly write middleware so you have to be flexible in languages)
I still can't get over how thick this statement is. Aparently MVC is only for application developers and not GUI API developers?
Yes. V = View after all. The GUI is the view. What should the GUI api also implement MVC?
MVC isn't the solution to everything. There are other patterns out there more appropriate for other types of software design. I would put forth that MVC might not be the best way to design a GUI api... Design a GUI yes... and API? no...
As for forms you make a good point about how many of the form controls store the data... but just as many have a databinding model where you can bind them to your model. Even if they didn't you could write the control code to clear the state and update.
I think the ASP.NET forms rock. Much better than JSP.(Although JSP plus Struts is about equal. MSFT tools are more efficent right now for that type of development but some of the stuff coming from BEA and IBM are correcting that.)
I found you comments amusing about how layouts suck in windows forms... That has always been my feel about awt/swing. Why the hell should I align things left and right? Top/bottom? I want direct placement... I don't wont to align it to anything... Then just drop one of those controls in that automatically scales the distance and size correctly and your done. There is a reason that windows UI's kick ass... and it ain't swing... Take a look at any office 2003 application and tell me it isn't beautiful to look at... Windows forms rock...(and yes I know you can reimplement that look and feel in swing but it's insanely slow, memory intensive comparatively and quite difficult to do besides.)
I so agree. Although adding in IM is a little more sophiticated but several of the digital dashboard products could do it.
Bottom line, this is nothing new.
This reminds me of the digital dashboard concept from MSFT and others a while back. Basically the dashboard aggregated email, stock feeds, etc... and displayed it all together... Reuters, Avaya, and some other companies even came up with slick features to display IM, and Voicemail inside the email discussion thread as well. I really don't see this as anything new or noteworthy... Seems like they got a long way to go.
Yeah, I can't understand why anyone would like to get paid a lot of money working with a bunch of bright people at a company who can change the world. ;-) Quit being silly...
Be glad Miguel went the route he did. It is one of the best things that could have happened to the open source community.
Oh, and your comment on the windows registry is misplaced... Do you remember windows before the registry???? A million little ini files... Drove me nuts... The biggest problem with the registry is that it should have been implemented as protected XML file. That way you could do fast compare and replaces when you need to. But you can't argue that it doesn't have good structure and that it wasn't desperately needed.
A lot of the web service intermediaries have these kind of capabilities...
You plug in their agents on the network and they slowly become aware of each other through message exchange. When one section of the network goes down the agents talk to each other to figure out which agent can be used to relay a message around the broken link.
It's really wierd to be up in layer 7 and see the same modeling of behavior of lower layers in the stack...
If you want Mozilla to be usable by corporations you got to support NTLM.
I have worked for numerous corporations that have hundreds if not thousands of applications written using NTLM. They can't recode these applications(cost and time issues) and we shouldn't expect them to. Instead we should make the browser support what is out there.
In fact I remember a meeting where someone brought up the fact that the html design of an application wasn't compliant with Open Source browsers. One of the people in the meeting made a comment that it was a moot point because open source browsers were unusable because they couldn't support NTLM so there was no point in worrying about it till they did.
Something to think about.
You'll notice that FUD is everywhere... One of the things that all tech geeks suffer from is that they like to fight religious battles. I admit to being guilt of this as well... Whenever I hear someone arguing for Windows or Linux I frequently take the other side of the arguement just so I don't hear useless religous babble... My point is that you shouldn't be surprised if someone takes these sides. Even if they are wrong. It's just a flaw in most technical people... Time usually cures it since arguing for a technology solution that isn't a good fit usually results in something blowing up in you face.
Don't be a Troll.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but MS SQL is in every enterprise data center I know. In fact it is slowing taking many of them over... I know of several companies with 700+ MS SQL db servers in house.
Don't know if those are particulary good definitions.
I would say that programmers tend to write a lot of infrastructure. Examples being:
Linux/Windows / Message Queing / Email,web servers.
Developers tend to write things that sit on top of this infrastructure. Examples being: Office / Email / Instant Messaging(although this requires both programmers and developers), and yes the badly designed HR application.
There are bad programmers and bad application developers. But when an application is written the right way it can actually make the company money!
My point is still the same... Both kinds of people are neccessary and both are just as important.
Sorry, my fault that I didn't explain myself well enough.
.net is about MULTIPLE LANGUAGE SUPPORT. That is why I like it better than java. I could code in c++/vb/C#/cobol etc... and it all works well together and it can run on multiple platforms!!!!! I work in a large IT group and do you know how many differnt languages/platforms we have???? Way to many. I need to be able to leverage my infrastructure and exisiting code base. .Net allows me to do this. Java doesn't. In my mind that means java was not the answer to my problem.
I thought the java syntax was fine... I just never liked the apis(UI apis were a joke, data access sucked as well),the tools sucked as well(slightly better now) , and last but not least
My BIGGEST issue with Java was that it was a NEW language. But I must admit that at current mono only supports C#... the future should fix this however... that was why XIMIAN backed it...
Digitalch
Your also clueless.... Those vb programmers ARE just as valuable as the people who can craft inline assembler into their c routines...
There are programmers and there are application developers. They are two completely different animals. Each one has that use. Quite being so narrow minded.
Digitalch
This is a troll by the clueless... If you had done any research you would know that they cant do that for the api's that mono officially supports...
Now those ado and ASP.net API's I'm not to sure about....