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MMORPG: Money, Money, Money

JTacomis writes "There's an interesting article up at Business 2.0 magazine about Sony Online and EverQuest. It says that EverQuest makes Sony over $5 million a month. Star Wars Galaxies is expected to make even more than that. It's a long and in-depth articles that takes us through the whole back-story to EverQuest. One interesting fact: EverQuest almost didn't get made. According to the article, the idea was originally turned down inside of Sony."

19 of 288 comments (clear)

  1. The truth why George Lucas introduced Ja-Ja Binks by Bramley · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since everyone hates him, I can see a long queue forming just to kill him off in the game...

  2. Is 5 million a lot ? by tmark · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm just not sure whether 5 million a month is a lot ... it doesn't seem like it would be a lot for a company the size of Sony. And if the Star Wars game gets popular, you have to expect that a lot of it will come at the expense of cannibalizing the Everquest ranks. MMORPGs, like MUDs, after all, require a very particular type of person to pay to play.

    1. Re:Is 5 million a lot ? by Hittite+Creosote · · Score: 2, Insightful
      5 million dollars a month may not be much, but 40 per cent gross profit margins are rather attractive.

      Seriously though, the market will only expand if it offers differing types of online game. If they are all D&D/Star Wars type universes, they'll be competing for the same market. The Sims looks like a promising idea for tapping a different section of the online population.

    2. Re:Is 5 million a lot ? by Elanor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't think the players of everquest will stay faithful to the world they've invested alot of time in? I can understand people trying out a new world, but it'd have to be significantly more entertaining to overcome the homesickness!

      - Lnr

    3. Re:Is 5 million a lot ? by Ryvar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is all gleaned from developer quotes, interviews, and gamasutra articles:

      $5 million is quite a bit as it comes out to $60 million a year. Keep in mind that most games are LUCKY to break 100,000 copies sold (x$50 = $5 million), and thus Everquest makes Verant as much in a month as most games do in a year.

      However, a solid chunk of this goes to upkeep of the servers, bandwidth, and salaries for the shoddy-at-best support staff. IIRC, slightly less than 50%. So that leaves $30-35 million a year to play with a year. But wait, let's assume I'm way off base and those fees rack up 80% - that's still $10 million a year net.

      Guess how much it takes to develop a good MMORPG? Between 8 and 11 million dollars. EQ has been running a few years now, which is why Sony/Verant can afford to develop four new games simultaneously (EQ2, SW:G, some MMOFPS I believe called Planetside, and some MMORTS).

      Frankly, the whole business makes me sick. Everquest is terribly unfun to anybody not hooked on it, yet it's like crack to the poor souls addicted to it (many dropping out of college, ignoring their marriages, and in one case neglecting their newborn to the point of death). In exchange for making a shitty game Verant reaps ungodly amounts of money as far as their industry is concerned. Perhaps worst of all, though, is the way Verant hits new heights in censorship of its playerbase - going so far as to remove the accounts of players who post 'objectionable material' in message boards, or those trying to write their own software to act as third-party servers for the game client (DMCA, anyone?). While they're certainly entitled to write any crazed demands into their EULA that they wish, they'll never see another cent from me again.

      For a story about a relatively sane MMORPG company that built its game cheaply and (for an MMORPG) fairly bugfree using a mix of licensed proprietary client software and open source software on the backend (smart combination, that), check out Postmortem on Mythic Entertainment's Dark Ages of Camelot (free login required).

      --Ryv

    4. Re:Is 5 million a lot ? by Restil · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't see much that the government can do about this. First of all, a person who isn't addicted to Evercrack and can play it 30 minutes a day and go on with his/her life won't suffer any physical/mental/emotional side effects. Drugs, even the legal ones, present a real physical danger to those who abuse them. Evercrack presents no such danger. Someone might run their life into the ground while playing it 14 hours a day, but there are plenty of other activities they could waste their time on if they felt so compelled.

      I was addicted to UO once, for the first six months of its release. I played it a bare minimum of 8 hours a day. One day I saw the light and quit playing it cold turkey and never even felt the desire to go back. It might have been an addiction, but it wasn't a dependancy. Walking away was no problem, just so long as I didn't PLAY it. However, after I quit, I haven't
      spent any less time on the computer. I just now spend my time on other things, some of which are more productive.

      At least now though, I don't spend every minute away from the computer eagarly awaiting an opportunity to get back on it. I no longer spend my entire day at work planning strategies and reading message boards for a game. I no longer dream about a video game every night (like I used to).

      I'm willing to believe that no matter how hooked on Evercrack or some other game someone is, they could walk away from it and let it go if they really wanted to. The government has no place telling that person what to do with their life. When they can no longer afford internet access, they'll become productive again by necessity.

      -Restil

      --
      Play with my webcams and lights here
  3. More MMORPGs == less bucks for EQ by codexus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With all the MMORPGs in development, I think people are going to play more diverse games. And since, playing a MMORPG takes a lot of time, people aren't going to play more than 1 or 2 at a time. So either all those new MMORPGs aren't going to be popular or the current big ones are going to lose a lot of customers.

    --
    True warriors use the Klingon Google
  4. Re:The truth why George Lucas introduced Ja-Ja Bin by msoya · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Or, more likely, you will be able to play as a Gungan (or whatever he is) Imagine it - hordes of little kids with their parents credit cards, swarming you with their characters, blocking the only way out with their dead bodies. I'd pay a lot of money to see loads of dead Jar-Jars.

  5. MMORPG's are great, but... by mrgrey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Would you rather pay $150-$200 for a game and not have monthly charges, or pay $40 for a game and $12.95 a month to play it? I think MMORPG's would be more successful, in the terms of user numbers, if they would stop charging by the month. Maybe that's why some people are still playing MUD's and MUCKing around....

    --
    -Tolerate my intolerance
    1. Re:MMORPG's are great, but... by jukal · · Score: 4, Insightful
      > Would you rather pay $150-$200 for a game and not have monthly charges, or pay $40 for a game and $12.95 a month to play it?

      No. if I start to play some MMORPG, I tend to do it for a long time until there is not much to see, do or try. I will eagerly pay the monthly cost if that makes sure that the server exists also tomorrow. If there is no monthly cost, it usually means that the server gets hosted by a third party, whose main business is somewhere else - and as that third party does not have much incentive to keep the service running, it is easy to shut it down.

      What would be best, I think, would be that the game was freely downloadable without any cost, and if you want to develop your characters (play for longer than a few fays test-period), then you would have to start paying a subscription fee.

  6. Then there's Blizzard.. by CBNobi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Blizzard is on the other side of the spectrum in terms of how they make profit. They initially charged $60 for Warcraft III.

    It reportedly sold one million copies, which means roughly $60 million - about as much as Verant makes in a year with Everquest.

    If Blizzard plans to sell Worlds of Warcraft, their massively multiplayer version of Warcraft for about the same retail price, they've got a huge cash cow waiting for them, especially with the current trends of higher monthly pricing for MMORPGS - from $10 to $12.95.

    (Assuming they can get it out before the market becomes stuffed with major contenders such as Star Wars, Everquest 2, and Asheron's Call 2)

  7. Re:Money, money, money indeed by Evro · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Same with EverQuest. Honestly I'm glad they charge for it because otherwise people would be changing their name daily, which really makes it hard to keep track of who is who. $30 is enough that it would discourage people from doing it casually, but not so much that it would keep people who have a dumb name and are truly unhappy with it from availing themselves of the service.

    --
    rooooar
  8. Drug Dealers Make Lots of Money Too by grendelkhan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When the whole concept of MMORPGs was explained to me, I thought "Wow, this is pretty cool!" But when I was told that I would have to pony up $10 a month after paying $50 for the game, as long as CS and Battlenet are still out there, I think I'll pass.

    Don't get me wrong, more power to these guys, but really, we're talking about the same mentality behind selling heroin, except that the first hit isn't free. Now if the game was a free downloadable, I might consider it. Hats off to these guys for the scam of the century, but my money is going towards something without ongoing expenses.

    --
    Wu-Tang Name: Half-Cut Skeleton Get your own Wu-Na
    1. Re:Drug Dealers Make Lots of Money Too by goldspider · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It's not called "Evercrack" because it's cute, man.

      I myself am a relatively new EQ player. At first I balked at paying $12/month for a game I had already purchased, but after I looked at it and put it all in perspective, $12 for a month's worth of entertainment isn't that bad, considering you're going to pay more than that for 2 trips to the movie theatre.

      And I know you gotta buy the game (got the whole kit-n-b kaboodle, game and 3 expansions, for $60) but that's just a little overhead.

      --
      "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
  9. are you joking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    really, I am not sure if you are joking or not.

    Any death is tragic, any death. Are we to now limit our lives because of some that are irresponsible and undisciplined? Look at automobile fatalaties, should we all walk (it would do us fatties some good :)

    I don't think that saying anything related to your statement is fair or accurate, as it implies that the existence of the game killed that kid. While sickenly enough it might testify to the power of interactive gaming, the reality is that it did not _cause_ any harm (the game that is). Plus, we are not talking about anything that is inherantly dangerous in and of itself. You take motorcrossing, that is rather dangerous but many do it (it's loads of fun). You have your skydiving, skateboarding, baseball, softball, swimming, diving, hiking, camping, etc.

    I think you are making the same mistake many of the gray haired gentlemen on the hill make, that of confusing something new with being a totally new idea instead of a new implementation. Even once we get full immersion (VR and the like) with full sensory i/o, that will be just a new implementation.

    The real problem with ideas as yours are that it also implies that humans are incapable of thinking for themselves and acting in their best interest. Perhaps what we should all focus on is teaching our youth the lost art of responsibility and accountability that the baby boomers sold out for orgies and drugs. When a society trully cherishes the individual above all else, then as a consequence it will fight harder to protect the individual. The individual will be stronger (sort of a learned social darwinism) and synergistically add to the strength of the whole society. However if we sell our individuality for rhetoric, sound bites and temporary convenience then we become like the sheep who is stalked by the wolf. The sheep better hope that shepard can be all places at all times.

    I seem to remember a case where a mother sued MTV over Beavis and Butthead because of Beavis's constant infatuation with fire (more often the word than anything he himself did). one of her kids set fire to the house and died along with a brother and the remaining brother had severe inhalation and burn damage. Sadly for the kids (and this sets a precedence), the children were left unsupervised OFTEN like this while the mother was either trolling for that week's latest boyfriend, or was busy testing the mattresses with said boyfriend in another room. An avid smoker and drinker, there was not a place in the house that lighters, cigarettes and highly flamable spirits were not easily accessable. The children, whom never should have been allowed to watch the show in the first place, had a short history of near arson accidents before. However that stopped not the flagrant negligence of the gold digging demon that was their mother. Some day she will wake up in her cozy bed, in her well equiped bedroom which overlooks her swimming pool in the lush neighborhood all bought for by the MTV winnings. She will wake up and scream until someone stops her. She will scream because it will dawn on her what a terrible monster she is.

    However, back to earth now. The point is self reliance and responsibility. The game is no more at fault for anything like this, than is the drugs at fault for the addict.

  10. ROI for these games (long rambling) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    I am often intersted in what the costs are for running a game such as this. When you factor in the normal development costs (of non persistent games) plus the live dev and support teams, then add in the network connectivity, hardware and such it certainly might be impressive.

    However, I have noticed that IMHO, persistent world games are released half (or less) baked. This can be a QA issue and/or content. It seems the working strategy is to release a partially completed product so that you can recoup some costs while building up a following (this is the hope at least), while further development is touted as 'additional content' and modifications. Sure it is nearly impossible to balance a game until it really goes live, so I am not really referring to that. (although like many other software products, it is better to produce a well designed and robust system that can better adapt internally and externally (meaning programming changes) as well as design the SYSTEM to be more 'realistic' in its modelling of real world adaptations and balancing) Visiting the many forums of these games, you find that while you have the assortment of fanboys and trolls the normal folk have issues with the system as a whole. I believe it falls under the catagory of 'better to spend more now and save later.' It seems to me at least that often, the designers take short cuts in the name of expediency and cost cutting, that ends up costing much more when the very innevitable changes are required. (DAOC is a perfect example of this, they seemed to forget all knowledge of what has been learned to date about MMOG's and made many poor design decisions). Think about car manufacturing. If the designers made a less standard (if only by their internal definition) car that was less modular and adjustable and merely hacked it together, then that would indeed save a lot of initial cost. However, how much more will that design cost in the mid to long term when you factor in things like customizations, retoolings required for various packages (perhaps they want to make a 4x4 model), fixes to the design and then ultimately quality for the customer. If the customer pays for a vehicle that does not work reliably, then they will loose business. If the vehicle is so unreliable as to cause accidents, then they will now have more bills to pay from the litigation... and more bad publicity. Then what about next years model. Can they reuse this years design as a starting point? Probably not if it is poorly designed (except as a lessons learned).

    Other costly factors could be the growing trend of dead weight inside the companies. Management that absorbs tremendous resources while producing very little except frustration, inconsistency, and a destruction of team work and collaboration. Much like a cancer in the body, these management tumors seem to always take more blood and internal nutrients (resources) that since are not finite, must be starved from working areas of the body, like brain, muscle, GI, bone, etc. The result is a body that functions less than it should and could possibly die. However, this model is inaccurate becuase the brain (parts of it) and endocrine system are the bodies decision makers and they probably did not create (hire) the cancer. So that means it is even stupider when these organizations willingly hire those, and create a fostering culture, that only destroys itself from the inside.

    Imagine if your body wanted to get some more oxygen to a particular area. Well through the magic of biology it increases blood flow in the area and perhaps changes the chemistry a bit to be more conducive to 02 exchange in that region. What about signatories though. What if the body used the mindless bureacracy of many organizations. We would never live past birth (which creates an intersting paradox I suppose). Sure many bureacrats will get angry and defend their policies, yet when they do so they themselves create a paradox. They claim to have those policies for a particular reason (the spirit behind the rules if you will) yet if confronted on the gross negligence those policies produce _FOR_ said reason, they ignore it and say 'nothing is perfect.' (reminds me of many voters) Nothing is perfect, that is true... but are we to always make excuses for processes simply because we are too lazy to change them. What if the airports said, 'nothigns perfect' and never tried to improve security. They would just sit by while armed terrorists boarded the planes, all because it would be too much trouble to change the policy.

    Anyway, to end my rant, I will just say that if I was a major stock holder of a company that produced these games I would be very intersted in an internal audit of the company to find out where the innefficiency was. While often it is the lower end workers that are let go, the irony is that the decision makers that often caused the problems the company has (and are the cause of the layoffs of course) are kept. Isn't that unwise? Government and large corporations have become a haven for stupidity, waste, and inefficiency in a way that totally reverses social darwinism. The higher up in the chain you go, the more your stupidity will effect. It would be better to prune from the top as that will have the effect of setting a good example to follow. As it is, you learn from the bottom that it is not hard work or competence that is cherished as much as BS'ing skills and the ability to confuse and hide your stupidity with an array of buzzwords and paperwork.

  11. Yes by Kohath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Would you deprive hundreds of thousands of people of years of safe entertainment, and thousands of people of employment, and millions of investors of a good return (for providing the entertainment and the jobs) just on the off-chance that this incident could have been prevented?

    I wouldn't.

    If too many people make _your_ choice, life's going to be a lot less worth living for the rest of us who don't have Shawn Wooley's problems.

  12. Shortsightness from the article by SageMadHatter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The article gave a false impression of what the future holds for MMORPGs, by focusing on the success of Everquest. Yes, this genre is coming out of it's infancy and there is potential there, however you have to keep in mind that these are still games. And if it's a poor game, it will not sell well and it will not succeed. i.e. Anarchy Online from Funcom, one of the newest MMORPGs, has failed. The company had to close down their other divisions in order to keep the game running longer.

    I think EQ's success has to do more with timing than anything else. They came into the scene right at it's sweet point. Nobody else had a 3D MMORPG out there and Ultima Online, The Realm, and Meridian59 had already paved the road of making the public aware for this type of game. Had EQ not snatched most of the players 6 month before Asheron's Call was released, we could be very well to this day be reading articles on how Asheron's Call is the #1 MMORPG.

    SageMadHatter

  13. EQ Free for almost 1 year now by Reductionist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're right about EQ being terribly unfun to anybody not hooked to it and how it's like crack to most of the regular players.

    My personal addiction to EQ lasted 2.5 years - from launch in March of '99 to 9/11 of last year. Yes 9/11 was the event that made me realize what EQ really is: a banal, empty escape from reality.

    I played on Mithaniel Marr, which is home to 'Afterlife', one of the most powerful guilds in the game. I wasn't in AL, but I used to visit Afterlife's website just to check out their accomplishments.

    Afterlife is for hardcore addicts only, the degree of their addiction must be mind boggling considering most of them play every single day 6 to 8 hours a day(or more). They literally have thousands of hours 'invested' in addiction, and it wouldn't surprise me if some of their characters had a 'played' time of 300 real world days or more.

    True to form they held a raid on the evening of 9/11, as nothing was going to keep them from their addiction, not evening the most horrifying attack on this country since Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on 12/7/41.

    Something about that really disgusted me, as it made it painfully clear for once and for all that EQ is an addiction that's just as harmful as an addiction to alcohol or drugs.

    I never mentioned this to anyone on the discussion boards. I just quietly came to the conclusion that for the sake of my own health and welfare I needed to leave the game.

    Initially I considered just taking a break for a couple of weeks, but I never played EQ again after 9/11. In early October I logged on for the last time and gave all of my items and wealth to a couple of my closest in game friends. Once my characters were stripped I said my goodbyes and bid the world of Norrath farewell. I immediately camped out and deleted my characters(56 War, 56 Shm, 46 Mnk) to make sure I wouldn't be tempted to come back.

    It wasn't easy, but it turned out to be one of the best decisions I ever made.

    Its been nearly a year since I left behind the world of Norrath. I don't have too many regrets since I always had a love/hate relationship with the game. In the end I decided the negative aspects outweighed the positive and that it just wasn't worth wasting my time.

    Since then I still occasionally play computer games, like Civ III, Medal of Honor, or RTCW, but they don't take over my life like the way EQ did. I started riding my bike again in March for fun/exercise, which helped my lose about 30 lbs of mush that I put on while playing EQ. I'm generally much more social with my friends in the real world, and I've even started dating again. I read a lot more and find it much easier to think clearly now that my mind isn't in a constant EQ induced haze.

    Being away from EQ has made me realize that reality is infinitely much more interesting and bizarre than anything I ever did in Norrath. Addictive MMORPGS such as EQ are ultiamtely a poor substitute for 'reality', 'community' or 'relationships'.

    This more than anything is the reason why I think MMORPGS will always be a niche category. Americans are already overworked and suffering from a society fraying at the seams. The last thing we need is a mass escape from reality that encourages people to once and for all drop out from society.

    Will most people will realize that it just isn't worth it?

    I'm not so sure..