AOL Releases Client for Mac OS X with Gecko Browser

DietFluffy writes "America Online released an update to their Mac OS X client. The built-in browser is powered by Gecko! However, America Online plans to stick with Internet Explorer for their Windows client. Will this make web designers think twice about tailoring their web pages to Internet Explorer? Or will they ignore this, given that the Windows client will still have Internet Explorer as the default browser?" And if this goes well, will the Windows version eventually use a Gecko-based browser, too?

Comments

Do we hate AOL today?

[joshua404]

I can't remember - Is AOL the evil corporate empire today or are they the champions fighting against M$? Let me check my calendar..

Re:Do we hate AOL today?

[Atzanteol]

I don't think companies are evil, per se. It's their actions that are good or bad. Here, slashdot is pointing out a favorable change in AOL. Many will think it is a Good Thing(TM). If they then mandate 20 pop-up ads when people load their software, it will be a Bad Thing(TM).

Re:Do we hate AOL today?

[psicE]

Well, do we hate Apple?

I have good reason for predicting that, within a year, Apple will buy AOL from AOLTW.

Right now, "convergence" is out. Convergence-based companies, like Vivendi, Time Warner, Disney, Viacom, and more are looking extremely bad. Many of them are on the verge of breaking up.

So let's say Time Warner breaks up. They put publishing and print-based materials in one company (Time), and multimedia/interactive materials in another company (Warner). That leaves America Online; the service that Apple went to special lengths to enable on Mac; the service that powers Apple's new iChat; and the service that now offers the Gecko browser by default on Mac.

Why wouldn't Apple jump to buy America Online, integrating it with OS X, and morphing the Mac AOL client into both a new, fully standards-compliant Galeon-style browser, and a new, fully standards-compliant MSN Explorer-style browser? They've got the money, after all, being one of two profitable computer companies. I think it'll happen.

Re:Do we hate AOL today?

[MouseR]

I have good reason for predicting that, within a year, Apple will buy AOL from AOLTW.

I think methadone can help you with this.

AOL is worth about as much as Apple, and Apple needs to keep it's 4.3 billions worth of cash in it's balance sheet, for Apple is alone in it's market, and it needs the money to guard against dark times.

Back in the Apple Dark Ages (1994-1997), Apple's 2.1 billion in cash is what saved it (then, the iMac picked up the tab and the rest we all know about).

I could see Apple doing strategic alliances, but not a buyout of that magnitude.

MacOs and Win

[joe_fish]

Mozilla has always had a greater percentage market share on MacOS compared with Windows, so it makes sense to start there when moving browser components.

But it's about protecting your userbase. No point in alienating your users too soon. It'll come but not in a rush.

8.0 Uses Gecko

[spring]

The Win32 / 8.0 version of the AOL client does use Gecko as the rendering engine.

Re:8.0 Uses Gecko

[jmu1]

Based on what information? Do you have a URL? As I've heard it on NPR several times that they won't be switching.

Re:8.0 Uses Gecko

[Jugalator]

Whoa... Time to sign... Heey, you almost tricked me into becoming an AOL user!

Re:8.0 Uses Gecko

[Ami Ganguli]

We don't know that yet, and in fact the latest beta reverted to IE.

AOL has been really coy about their plans in this regard. Nobody knows what they're up to. Latest evidence suggests that Gecko will go to smaller platforms first (Compuserve, Mac) and larger platforms later on. This makes some sense for AOL, since it reduces the risk of alienating their mainstream customers.

Re:8.0 Uses Gecko

[kalidasa]

There are both Gecko and IE betas. It looks like (to an outside observer) they're going to stick with IE for 8.0, but I'd guess that 9.0 will be Gecko.

Re:8.0 Uses Gecko

[jmu1]

Compuserve, as it is, is not AOL. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of AOL/TimeWarner. The latest release of the AOL "browser" was reverted to IE. Why? Who knows. I'd love it if they used Gecko, but it doesn't seem that it was working as they had planned. As for Compuserve, they really wouldn't care if it tanked or not, so they just threw that client together in a haphazard manner. Not meaning to argue, but it's just the facts.

Re:8.0 Uses Gecko

[Captain Large Face]

AOL is indirectly using Gecko under Compuserve 7.0 on Win32 already.

Since Compuserve is part of AOL, it would seem logical that AOL will follow where Compuserve has been. Whilst there is no evidence per se, it seems that this announcement would pave the way for such a move.

Re:8.0 Uses Gecko

[kalidasa]

Or, 8.0 could allow the user to choose...

Maybe, but I would not expect it to. After all, this is AOL, and adding that kind of customizability to a lowest-common-denominator product would probably be counterproductive. Can't you just see the average "Isn't AOL the Whole Internet" user's blank stare when told they can use either IE or Gecko as their browser engine?

Besides, allowing users a choice now locks AOL in later. If they decide they do not want to use the IE engine at all in the future, and their users had a choice at one point, it will look like by taking away the choice of IE they are taking away a feature.

Re:8.0 Uses Gecko

[MindStalker]

Don't worry too much, its common knowledge that there is a AOL beta with gecko in it, then that there was a later AOL beta without gecko in it. So nobody really knows whats going to be in 8.0 though the speculation is that IE will be in 8.0 if 8.0 comes out soon. While gecko will be in 9.0, but if 8.0 doesn't come out soon they may switch depending upon how well the Mac test goes.

Re:8.0 Uses Gecko

[Darren Winsper]

AOL no longer has that deal with MS. It expired last year IIRC and they couldn't negotiate a new deal. MS wanted AOL to drop Real and go with WMP, but AOL refused.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Web Developers will stick with IE

[squaretorus]

The reason being that its easy. Most clients of web companies use PCs with the latest version of XP and IE installed - why?

Because its easy. IE has its flaws, but its pretty much universal and good enough. With .NET you can actually SMELL the IE bias as soon as you start building a page. This keep development costs down and delivery schedules easy to estimate.

By building for IE and offering to 'do a mac version if you get complaints / lose customers' most web houses cover their arse while keeping it simple. And the carrot? 'Its cheap as chips to do in IE, but a bitch to do cross browser - so it'll costs lots more - it'll be cheaper in the long run to do two versions, and you probably wont need the second version anyway!'

IE is here to stay.

I use and support the following

[DeadBugs]

AOL is not all bad. I use the following

Gnutella

WinAmp

IM

Mozilla

Re:Decent Web Designers shouldn't worry...

[mccalli]

Oh yeah - all web designs should also work with Lynx, because we really love those geeky people who feel the need to surf in text

Well...there are also blind web surfers. Both CSS and HTML explicitly support markup and styling for non-graphical browsers.

Cheers,
Ian

Mac IE != Windows IE

[salimma]

Mac IE is a totally separate product from its Windows counterpart. I'm not too sure about whether it exposes itself as a DCOM component like WinIE, and thus is easily embeddable into other programs, but its rendering engine is definitely different - MacIE passes Mozilla's rendering tests, whereas WinIE does not.

On the other hand, MacIE has incomplete support for certificates - try going to a site with a certificate from an unknown (to IE) provider in MacIE and it would not let you in (in version 5.1 and under at least).

Besides, they already have a browser product that uses Gecko - the one used by their subsidiary, Compuserve. It makes sense to migrate AOL on Windows last, since there is no pressing need.

Aren't they already ignored?

[Lethyos]

As far as I recall, web designers/builders/maintainers/whatevers have traditionally ignored AOL, passing them off as irrelevant (for a variety of reasons from the custom browser they used to use, to the fact that AOL users are stupid by stereotype). To answer the question posted in the story, yes, I think the trends towards developing for Internet Explorer will (sadly) continue, for two reasons. First, the irrelevance AOL is considered to embody (read up), and second, because web design doesn't pay what it used to. As a result, those who want web sites built want them built as quickly as possible. Making cross-platform web sites is more expensive than IE-only.

It's still good to see yet another large company "support" open source software... Even if they do nothing other than lend credibility to a particular project.

Where Free Software Fails

[jvmatthe]

Recent big moves by the tech industry indicate that free software is moving forward, for the good of all. IBM's offerings, Sun's offerings, Apple, and now AOL with this full embrace of Gecko on MacOS X (the newest UNIX on the block!). We have free software replacements for web browsers, desktop environments, office productivity apps, and on and on.

Yet, there is one very painful area in which free software has not stepped up and provided GNU replacements. This key area is preventing the adoption of free software for the standard desktop, and it must be remedied soon, or all will be lost.

Thus, I propose that the FSF take up the following projects as soon as developers can be found:

• GNU Hunter for BSD - A deer^H^H^H^HGNU hunting simulation game. Finally, the unwashed masses can put down their weapons, leave their Windows machines behind, and massacre virtual deer on a free operating system. Expansions for various critters should be developed by the community using a plugin system. A lucrative deal with Wal-mart will follow.
  
• GNASCAR for GNU/Linux - Utilizing OpenGL for mind-blowing 3D graphics, this brings all the thrill of speeding around oval tracks to the free software world. I suggest a "dynasty mode" that includes famous names like Earnhart and Petty.
  
• WWE: Wrestling the GNU Way for GNU/Linux - Enter the ring against Raymond, Stallman, Moglen, Perens, and the king of them all TORVALDS! Unlock secret characters like CmdrTaco and Roblimo.
  

Until this hole is plugged in the free software front, we are fighting a losing battle.

I wish my competitors ignored AOL...

[alexhmit01]

AOL is the SINGLE most important demographic for anyone in the B2C space. They are followed closely by people that use MSN's search engine. People that use Yahoo's search engine are a distant third.

People that run NS6/Mozilla are meaningless. Google searchers with any browser are kinda worthless.

NS4 users are important, you get people at work at low-tech companies.

I mean, it depends what you are doing. If you are building crazy flash sites with loud annoying noises, ignore AOL. My sites try to make money, like hell I'll ignore the largest contingent of shoppers, just because people think that they are stupid.

I'll take an semi-illiterate user running AOL 5.0 on an 800x600 monitor visiting my site over a "1337 Linux Hacker" running a Mozilla beta shopping me and 12 competitors to save 50 cents...

Alex

Re:pop-ups

[Jay L]

I doubt it, as I understand it the popup killing code is part of Netscape/Mozilla not Gecko the rendering engine.

Wouldn't matter anyway, as those popups are rendered by the AOL client, not the browser. (Even if they're HTML windows now, they're still launched by the client, not other browser windows.)

However, that doesn't matter, because since 1996 you have been able to disable all popups at keyword MARKETING PREFS.