Lindows.com Hypes An Upcoming $199 PC

prostoalex writes "After having struck a deal with Walmart on $299 PC, Lindows is planning to introduce $199 PC. ExtremeTech has the story, the official message from Michael Robertson, CEO of Lindows, is posted on Lindows.com. Robertson claims that "for under 200 dollars, you'll be able to browse the Internet, check email and run a variety of software products for far less than the price of most handheld devices! A certified version of LindowsOS will come bundled with the PC"." I wonder if such a machine would fare any better than Larry Ellison's ThinkNIC.

Comments

CUT THE HYPE.

[Vengie]

You know, i often get sick of seeing this. 199/299 is not the FULL price. There's no freaking monitor included in this system. OK YES -- Its still 199/299 for a box, which for most of us is all we regularly upgrade, but for joe public, A MONITOR IS NECESSARY. "You can browse the web, etc etc /snip/ for $299" -- no you cant! you need a monitor. Jesus....what people will write just to get onto /.

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you want them to say, "$199 without monitor, up to $13,198.99 with monitor"?

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[An Onerous Coward]

Y'know, if you're so strapped for cash that you'll buy a $199 computer, you're strapped enough to buy a monitor for five bucks from a thrift store or a garage sale. That's where I've gotten my last three, and I have no complaints.

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[hugesmile]

OK, for $199, you'll be capable of browsing the internet, reading email, and run a variety of software... BUT the following items are required:

• a monitor
• an internet account
• power
• schooling to learn to read
• food
• water
• shelter

ALL of these items are necessary, where do you draw the line? We all take for granted that you have food, water, shelter, power, schooling, an internet account... why not assume a monitor as well! For that matter, assume the PC, and you can do it all for free! :)

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[Reality Master 101]

You gotta be jokin' me dude. COMPAQ 15" monitor: $69.

Large quantity wholesale pricing? I wouldn't be surprised if you get something down to $50.

Not to say we're talking GOOD stuff, but...

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[Vengie]

Have you tried following the link *IN THE ARTICLE*? If Not: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?cat=395 1&dept=3944&product_id=1870914&path=0%3A3944%3A395 1%3A41937%3A86796%3A96356 *sigh* its a direct link FROM the article.

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[ncc74656]

Honestly... how can you sell a computer for $200 with a monitor? The cheapest, (refurbished) CRTs that I've ever seen are like $170.

The last CRT monitor I bought was a 15" Acer for somewhere around $100. That was new, BTW. If refurbs are OK, these guys just down the road from me have 17" NEC MultiSync M700s (with built-in speakers and mic) for $100. They probably have cheaper monitors that aren't listed, or you could see what the local Goodwill has available.

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[hendridm]

Let us not forget the $99 membership to the Click-n-Run warehouse. Without it, it takes away from the appeal of Lindows.

That is how partially how Walmart sells a $299. They almost automatically are gaurenteed another $99 upon booting the thing up. What newbie can live without the Click-n-Run Warehouse? Or maybe they just have really good source code compiling instructions?

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[Reality Master 101]

That's the $299 Wal-Mart PC. Granted, that's evidence, but not conclusive.

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[Sj0]

Use the win98 cd. It's a fully functional Windows 98 bootdisk.

Learned that one from a foiled Windows 2000 installation on a system with no floppies(I designed it that way).

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[dmarx]

Because Joe Sixpack never sees computers without monitors. He thinks "computer=box with that TV-like thing attached to it". If they're trying to sell this thing to the general public, they must understand how the general public thinks.

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[Cryptnotic]

Joe Sixpack doesn't buy computers. He only buys six packs of beer and drinks all of them in the back of somebody's pickup truck parked outside a sports arena. He is kind of a useless, irrelevant person.

General Public, on the other hand, is the guy who buys computers and tanks and ICBM's and rocket powered grenade launchers. The general knows how to kick ass and take names. I don't know why he would care about a $199 PC, unless it had hard-core encryption software or could be used to control space lasers on sattelites orbiting around the earth.

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[Ninja Programmer]

OK, for $199, you'll be capable of browsing the internet, reading email, and run a variety of software... BUT the following items are required:

• a monitor
  
• an internet account
  
• power
  
• schooling to learn to read
  
• food
  
• water
  
• shelter

ALL of these items are necessary, where do you draw the line?

You draw the line after "internet account" and before "power". Anymore stupid questions?

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[MsGeek]

You can get 15" SVGA monitors for $20 at Goodwill Computer Centers. They're used, you won't have years of use out of them (they are usually fairly played out by the time they get there) but you can get 'em there.

I'm guessing this is based around VIA's Eden Platform, aka EPIA. Which means that there won't be a floppy because EPIA HAS NO FSCKN FLOPPY CONTROLLER. If you want a floppy, use a USB floppy. Teac makes a fairly good one.

With floppy drives barely above $5 at the computer shows and prolly $5/drive right on the dot in the OEM channel, the lack of floppy makes no sense unless they are using EPIA or something like it.

BTW EPIA is not a power-user platform by any standard. The VIA CIII is very underpowered and best for low-stress applications. TANSTAAFL applies here.

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[antirename]

I'm thinking about getting one of these for to use as a "public computer" on my home network... something for the roomates to use to check e-mail and whatnot. They won't be getting my $99 bucks... I'm going to format it's ass and load redhat. I'll play with Lindows for a day or two first, but I really don't see myself using it.

Re:CUT THE HYPE.

[dublin]

Maybe it's just one of the few advantages of being in the middle of the dot-com bust, but used PC stores here in Austin are awash in very decent used brand-name 15" and 17" monitors, most around $50. Most are OEM-brands (Dell, Compaq, and IBM) but there are a good number of Nokias, ViewSonics, and NECs, too.

If you're strapped for cash and don't mind a few more cosmetic blemishes or a small amount of phosphor burn, you can easily talk your way down to the $20 range.

Ahh, the advantages of a market glut. Just don't expect good deals on LCDs just yet. Maybe next cycle...

Emachines

[SanLouBlues]

Wow! $200USD! That'll be a great reliable system, just like the eMachine I threw in the trash last year!
Seriously, you get what you pay for.

Re:Emachines

[hendridm]

> That'll be a great reliable system, just like the eMachine I threw in the trash last year!

True, it won't be a very good primary desktop machine, but I could see it being a good secondary machine. Some examples:

1. I want a PC in the living room so my roommates won't use my computer all the time, but they are too cheap to help out much.

2. I want a computer next to my bed/in the kitchen so I can minimize e-mail down time. Oh yeah, and I don't want an appliance that I can't customize either (*ahem* I-Opener)

3. I'm a budding young MCSE who wants to set up an Active Directory for study. I've got my primary machine as the DC, but I need to clients to work with. Voila!

Just some ideas. Of course, #3 is unlikely to subscribe to the Click-n-Run, which will piss off the Lindows peeps.

Re:Emachines

[tcc]

I still use my modified Iopener, and it does exactly that for about that price :)

Re:Emachines

[antirename]

Exactly. Having roomates use your machines suck. One of mine got a virus in her email, she was annoyed that nothing happened when she double-clicked on the .exe ( I run linux ). I found a previous roomate staring at the Matrix screensaver... I asked her if she was OK and the answer was that she was "trying to figure it out". She thinks linux is from outer space and assumed that I was connected to the "real" matrix. Yes, I do some weird things with my computer but not that weird. A disposable comp for the roommates to use sounds great to me.

Re:Emachines

[dublin]

FWIW, I use an E-machines box (E-monster 600) as my primary computer. It's dead-solid reliable, reasonably well built, and completely compatible with every goofy OS I've loaded on it, which is the real advantage of buying a generic Taiwanese white box over a name-brand PC. (FWIW, I've tried various versions of Caldera, RedHat, Mandrake, Corel, and more recently, NetBSD and FreeBSD, which is now my open source environment of choice.)

Kinda hard to beat cheap and good in my book.

A lot of people seem to slam E-machines, but my experience has been very good - good enough that I'll definitely consider them when it's time to upgrade. I'd buy E-machines over Dell or Compaq any day, and either keep the money left over or use it to buy all the stuff I wouldn't be able to afford if I went with their proprietary hardware.

P.S.: Performance is decent, too - I did some early iSCSI testing using this machine as a client, and although it wasn't able to run wire speed, it did far better than I expected, with a good high-performance NIC like a SysKonnect or the Tigon2-based 3Coms.

ThinkNIC?

[JamesOfTheDesert]

I wonder if such a machine would fare any better than Larry Ellison's ThinkNIC.

ThinkNOT

Hmmmm

[sheepab]

Damn I was going to make a really cheap pc here from pricewatch....but it came to about 175, so hell 199 is really good, cept itll be a pos and last about 9 months.

Ooo, I have one! I have one!

[glassware]

I got my X-Box last week! It runs all my favorite Microsoft software.

$200 cheap? try $1.25!

[Anonymous Coward]

for under 200 dollars, you'll be able to browse the Internet, check email and run a variety of software products for far less than the price of most handheld devices! A certified version of LindowsOS will come bundled with the PC

Ummm... my SparcStation 4 can do all of this, and I only paid $1.25 for it on eBay!

Re:$200 cheap? try $1.25!

[garcia]

these are not targeted at people who can use a SPARC. Nor are they targeted at people are who EBay savvy.

Get real.

Re:$200 cheap? try $1.25!

[mendepie]

Get real.

He did :-)

Okay this is a bad joke... BUT

[sofar]

Imagine a BEOWULF cluster of these!!!

(damn that will save some pennies, and who said you NEED a monitor?)

Robertson's looking for information?

[bshroyer]

Note: This is an honest question, as I'm confused.

In his letter, Robertson (CEO of Lindows) comments on their legal battle against Microsoft over the trade name, and asks all of us out in userland to chime in, as they'd

"like to hear from anyone who had personal experience in the industry during those early years and can recall the history of the early windowing products such as Xerox's Star, VisiCorp's VisiOn, Apple's Lisa, Digital Research's GEM, Quarterdeck's DesQ, IBM's TopView, and others. "

This strikes me as odd - shouldn't it be pretty easy to get copies of not only the documentation, but even the software to which he refers? Is this a real request for information, or merely a request for sympathy?

Re:Robertson's looking for information?

[reallocate]

Half those companies don't exist, and the products haven't been marketed for years. Even if documentation could be found, Robertson's real interest is probably in the cultural and historical record and the interplay between those windowing products and Microsoft's. One way to break Microsoft's stranglehold on the word "Windows" is to demonstrate that Microsoft brought no new concepts to the mix, only its own particular implementaton of an accepted and common interface.

Re:Robertson's looking for information?

[DrCode]

You would think so; Google finds lots of information about GEM. Funny thing is that it's now owned by Lineo (Caldera), and is, I believe, GPL'd.

Just the same, I sent a quote from my old 'Gem Developer's Toolkit' mentioning 'windows'. Maybe they'll send me a tee-shirt like when I answered Mozilla's call for help:-)

Re:great

[An Onerous Coward]

The lawsuit has already been fought, though I'm not sure where the case stands today.

And what's that?

[gatesh8r]

The Linux on the X-Box project?

Re:great

[CynicTheHedgehog]

Last I heard the courts were debating whether or not "Windows" was even trademarkable, and Microsoft just kinda backed off after that.

Actually...

[11thangel]

I have a ThinkNIC that myself and several friends bought a year ago to tinker around with. It's actually quite the capable little machine. It runs Linux, comes with a basic TWM based X11 setup, Netscape (with proper plugins, etc), a terminal emulator, and a few other neat little things. It boots off a combination of an NVRAM chip and a CD. The CD they give you is the basic system, but we asked them for some information and they gave us the ISO for that same boot CD. They were even polite about it. We hacked it up a little bit without difficulty, so the machine is slightly configurable.

The downside is that yes, it lacks a harddrive. Personal preferences, like Netscape bookmarks, etc, get stored in the NVRAM, so you don't lose everything. But it's alot like web tv, where you get to surf, use basic email, but don't have the full complications of a complete computer. I admit, I wouldn't use one of them for my home system, but I'd easily give one to my grandmother if she ever changed her mind and decided that the internet was not in some manner connected with Satan.

Re:Actually...

[Tablizer]

(* I wouldn't use one of them for my home system, but I'd easily give one to my grandmother if she ever changed her mind and decided that the internet was not in some manner connected with Satan. *)

It *is* full of Satan. Porn, penis spam, gambling, Nazi-ware, etc.

Why do you think it is so popular?

Re:Actually...

[The_dev0]

AOL-AfterlifeOnLine: continue swearing at your computer and crying over your download speeds long after your death.

Re:Actually...

[Tablizer]

That must mean there's an Internet in the afterlife! :-) Hell can't be that bad after all! :-)

Yeah, but it is through a 5-baud modem.

First hand experience...

[Mustang Matt]

I convinced one of my room mates to buy a wal-mart PC with Lindos to ween himself off of Windows. It shows up and it's nearly unusable due to all the crap they did to it. They've got this active installer where they basically sell you the ability to install applications. It really really sucked. He would have been off a ton better just installing the latest SuSE.

The PC died before we could try it though. Took it back to a local wal-mart. Not sure what was wrong with the PC. It got to the point where only the fans came on. No beeps or video or anything and we didn't touch the inside of the box.

Try 10 cents

[11thangel]

Public library card. Free book. Paid 10 cents for overdue book. Show library card to librarian, allowed into computer lab. Free T1 internet. And I didn't even have to pay for shipping.

Re:Try 10 cents

[NanoGator]

What about those of us who like to look at po^H^H^H^Hanatomy pics?

$199 not full price

[Satai]

Ok. Besides the monitor and other issues that other posters have brought up, $199 will not get you what you need to do all that. Lindows comes very stripped down - all as an "incentive" to use the "Click-n-run" warehouse. In Robertson's message, he mentions that it comes with a trial membership.

Trial translates to THREE. You get THREE packages you can install - and if they don't work right on the first install, they still count. See this article for more information. A more accurate price would be $298, as the Click-N-Run membership costs $99.

Re:$199 not full price

[Chris Johnson]

Is Click-N-Run still $99 for access to public Debian mirrors, or did they actually come up with their own hosting by now?

Lindows and Wal-Mart deserve each other. Wal-Mart is one of the companies that's been caught taking out 'dead peasant insurance' and we already know about Lindows- mp3.com veterans have known about Michael Robertson for a long time.

Just be sure and get the word out to any of the people who might be considering this computer- make it so the most cursory web search will give them the resources they need to not pay Mike a cent of that $99. Put Lindows out of business- that kind of friend you don't need.

XBOX

[thelinuxking]

The xbox would be a better choice to get...costs the same price, and hopefully the linux kernel will be fully working on it soon. Also, it has an excellent video card...the lindows machine probably has a really crappy card. Also, you could even use the xbox with your tv, so you don't really have to pay for a monitor like you do for the lindows pc!

Imagine Support

[Frank of Earth]

"Ok, your Lindows levice lrivers are not working with your ATA 44.5 HD and Wintellisense chipset... hrm.."

Monitor too heavy to ship cheaply.

[rapidweather]

You'll get a better deal locally on the Monitor. The stores get theirs shipped on pallets, much cheaper than one-at-a-time on UPS. You can pay anything you want for a monitor, say $150-1000+ I got my monitors for $20.00 each. ADI MicroScan 4V, at a salvage store. I got lucky. A lindows computer is still Linux, and a "hardware modem" has to be installed, included in the $199 price. The hard drive has to be at least 20GB, so you could install Redhat too if you wanted ;-). That reminds me. Do you suppose they don't have a CD ROM drive for $199.00? That Warehouse setup Lindows has will be a download off the internet deal, not an "install via cd". I have installed Redhat without an "installed" CD ROM drive, but I have a $50.00 one that I temp-install until not needed, then I unhook it. The typical user of a $199.00 box might have only that one machine, however, and no spare cdrom drives, etc. Can't wait to see how they are going to market the $199 box, but looking at Lindows website leads me to believe that they will sell it direct, now thru Walmart.
Their legal dept is gathering info on the use of the term Windows before 1985 or so. I emailed them just now about the Coleco ADAM, with 8086 processor, than had ADAMCalc, a spreadsheet program, very nice, and no toy, that used Windows. You set up one window where you entered spreadsheet data, and another one down at the total's area. You could set up several. ADAMCalc was very very good for it's day, and considering that it ran on an ADAM, with no hard drive. ADAM's had two tape drives, and a floppy drive, and you could add more RAM. I had about 120K in mine, and had a nice chess game that required more RAM than the stock 80K. Any of you that has any information on the ADAM, might consider emailing the Lindows folks.
They did make about 200,000 ADAMS, and at one time, there was quite a following.

Re:That's not informative...

[Reality Master 101]

But it is upsetting that you are using "facts" out of context knowingly to support a point.

Sheesh, calm down. You make a reasonable point, but look 3 up from the bottom. $77, no rebates. Whoa, $8 more. This Lindows thing might not actually include a monitor, but the point is that it's not out of the question that it might if you used cheap enough components.

Robertson's for free advice?

[dpbrown]

Hello Legal, I read your latest Microsoft Corp. v. Lindows.com Update on your web site. You should change your name and try to be a little more creative/original and less cute/clever. I really don't give a rats ass about the future of Microsoft or Lindows. You don't think Coke would sue if someone making soda drinks called there company Loca-Cola. Change your name and get back to work. Best regards, David Brown P.S. Your disclaimer is an admission of guilt, "Lindows.com is not endorsed by or affiliated with Microsoft Corporation in any way." Loose it.

$199 is a magic number

[Danathar]

Back in the early 80's the C64 was priced at that point and it sold like hotcakes. If this new machine is marketed correctly, it could sell just as well.

The monitor is a problem though. Maybe they'll figure out some way to output it to a tv....nah

Same price?

[freeweed]

Um, not to sound too trollish, but..

In order to run Linux on your Xbox, not only will you need an existing PC, with dvd-r drive (ok, there's a good $1000 at least), you'll also need an Xbox modchip (tack on another $70 iirc) and the skills to make something like 40 tiny solder connections inside your Xbox. Just a tad more money than $199.

Or has that damn hard drive finally been 'cracked'?

Re:Floppies

[Sj0]

then WTF was I using?

Re:Floppies

[Robber Baron]

Nope, only w2k is bootable.

Nope, Win98 (second edition) boots (and installs) directly from the CD. I ought to know...I've done this with many a client.

Some people already have a monitor

[jlower]

Seems to me a significant number of people might upgrade their CPU and keep their existing monitor. I see nothing wrong with pricing this way.

Re:You can already buy a new $199 PC at this site

[geoswan]

Well as quite a few people probably know, its today possible to build a PC for $199 if you get the right components.

It can be fun to build your own computer, once you know how. It isn't too hard, once you know how. It can be impressive, to those who haven't tried it themselves. I've built quite a few myself, over the years.

But I no longer try do so. Why? Because I can't save money doing so. I keep an eye on prices, and I can't build one for as cheap as my local clone shops. I can't build one as cheap, even if count the value of my labour at $0 per hour. So, I am going to buy a clone next time, at a place where they look clueful.

A friend of mine isn't convinced by this argument. She has started to build computers for her friends. So far she is doing for fun, and love, and is only charging for the parts. (But she thinks she could be making a profit, if she just got her volume up a couple of hundred percent.) And sometimes her buddies bring them back. I am cruel. When she asks for my advice, I tell her. "Just take it back to the manufacturer, and let them worry about it."

You can buy a brand new $199 PC (Yeah yeah minus the monitor) from this place and website...

Worth noting that while these computers may be "new", they are not really comparable to other new computers. Here in Toronto the slowest new computers are all 1 gigahertz. The computer you pointed uses a motherboard that maxes out at only 800 megahertz. Why is that? It is an old motherboard -- released in June 1999. Is it really fair to call it a "new" computer if it uses such an old motherboard? This motherboard is the old AT form factor version, not an ATX form factor.

Its a very decent configuration with an ASUS motherboard and can be easily upgraded later to a higher speed Pentium III CPU...

Okay, I just did a google search on this motherboard. It got some okay reviews, and some crappy ones. Here is the .pdf version of the manual. FWIW the manual doesn't say a word about mounting a Pentium III. Maybe the ability to mount a socket 370 Celeron implies that? I wouldn't know. I have stuck with AMD processors the last five or six years.