Moving from Corporate IT to Science?

EdinBear asks: "I've been working as a SysAdmin in an increasingly corporate internet services company, which has been hit hard by the fallout from the .com bust. When I started some years ago, I felt I was helping small and interesting companies get benefit from the burgeoning Internet through useful and attractive web services. However, since the Internet became 'normal', the focus has been purely commercial - and instead of helping an enterprise get exposure in an interesting way, it's all about money and finance. I now feel I want to move into Science to use my skills in a productive, 'big picture' kind of way, rather than just helping a client get more rich through financial services. I'm interested to hear if other people have found themselves in a similar position; is the transfer to Science/Research/Academia difficult? Is the grass greener on the other side? The money is less, but is the job satisfaction more?"

Comments

The politics of Academia

[Damion]

One major pitfal to be wary of if you aim to return to Academia is the politics. The life of a new professor is not an easy one, and the climb toward respect is a long one.

Re:The politics of Academia

[Verizon Guy]

No doubt, the battle in growing a professor's beard and maintaining it is an uphill one.

Re:The politics of Academia

[Tony Hammitt]

The politics are so bitter because the stakes are so low. Seriously...

Consider a protestant church's group of deacons, eders and commitees, it's pretty similar to students, associates and professors. There is usually nothing important to argue about, so people tend to inflate their status by taking a stupid stance and sticking to it.

It's pretty annoying to have a thesis comittee argue about what the name of your new major should be. That doesn't stop them from doing it.

That having been said, I'm jealous. I wish I could go back to college. Just the normal, I-hate-my-job return to the womb that most of us want. Good luck!

Re:The politics of Academia

[cascadefx]

That's assuming he wants to be a prof. Admins are slightly sheltered... at least ours are. Yes, there are definitely politics at play... but within the university IT groups it is usually internal to them.

As others have said, you have to bow to the faculty demands. You definitely have to be more flexible. But the benefits (if the pay isn't) are good (heck I get 24 vacation days a year... renewing every fiscal start... no accrument). You also get the opportunity for side incomes. I teach one class a semester which kicks in about another $6K a year. Others get their names passed around when outside industries call for consultants.

It's not a bad gig, even if it isn't the greatest. It is stable and you can sleep at night; literally because "on call" is loosely defined and figuratively because helping academia is a zero-conscience crusher. Unless your Uni is helping design diseases and/or weapons and other "bad stuff" you are probably helping the greater good more often than the greater bad and that, as Martha Stewart would say, is "A Good Thing."

rags to riches

[paddyponchero]

SO basically you've been pedaling bullshit for a few years and now you want to be an authority.

Pretty much the same

[Anonymous Coward]

I have BS degrees in computer science and physics, and have played both sides of the fence.
Slashdotters who find political situations in the work place difficult, will find much of the same in academia.

They are actually quite similar. Those 'greedy' clients chasing dollar bills will for the most part just be replaced with 'fame greedy' co-authors who want to make a name for themselves. In science it's all about your reputation, and it's managed in the much the same way porfolios are in the business world.

This isn't true of everyone of course, but in my opinion the grass is pretty brown on both sides of the fence.

boring and repititive

[mojo-raisin]

As a molecular biologist (with a BS) who's worked in several academic and industrial labs, I say steer very clear of doing wetlab work - it is boring and repetitive, and most of the day you are not really using your mind.

Basically, I prep DNA, ligate DNA, do PCR reactions and transform bacteria. Run the gels, digest DNA, yadayadayada. It doesn't pay well, and is not galmorous. No scientist that I know really enjoys doing that crap. After decades of work, you might be lucky do direct your own group of minions to do this crap so you can analyze results and think of new experiments all day long (the fun parts).

Go into a field that mixes computers and science. Like say bioinformatics or molecular modeling. I'm fairly ignorant on these subjects, but they seem much more interesting to do on a day to day basis. So that's where I'm trying to head.

Re:boring and repititive

[Mercaptan]

See, I've got a microbiology degree and a good deal of computer science under my belt. I'm working a research technician job that's 50% wet lab work and 50% bioinformatics computation work. The job is great really because I get to do both and the people I'm working with are very enthusiastic and young, plus I think doing the wet benchwork is very key.

You're right, the lab work can be very boring, but by the same token programming on big projects can be pretty mind numbing too. It's when you can live on the edge of both that it gets interesting, but that's a rare combination to find in one person.

I've been around a lot of different people trying to get into bioinformatics. You have biologists who are trying to learn the programming and software skills. They have a hard time adapting to thinking in binary and not fearing computers in general. Then you have computer science and IT people trying to pick up some molecular biology. They have a hard time grasping the messy world of genetics and cell biology.

It boils down to this. If you have the wet lab skills, you have cred with the molecular biologists. If you can program, you have cred with the computation people. It pays to have both.

Re:boring and repititive

[Mercaptan]

Because machines are more expensive than research technicans.

Plus some of these techniques are a bit of an art.

Re:boring and repititive

[Trepidity]

As a molecular biologist (with a BS)

I think that's your problem right there. To do anything really interesting in academia you need a PhD. The guys with a BS are going to be working in labs running PCR reactions, while the guys with PhDs (after a bit of experience) are going to have their own lab where they'll be coming up with the experiments you're carrying out and writing papers about the results (and attending conferences and such).

Now that might not sound interesting either (especially if you hate writing papers and attending conferences), but it's what's usually thought of as "academia" -- the non-PhD guys who just work in the labs are just "employees" or "staff" rather than "faculty", and as such end up with the more crappy jobs (usually).

[Note: I have no idea what industrial labs are like; I'm only referring to academic labs here.]

Politics, Finance, etc.

[chill]

Politics in academia can be a nightmare. Also, if you think you are escaping the bean counter mentality, it depends on where you end up.

Was it Slashdot that linked a story a couple of days ago on some Canadian University inking a deal with Microsoft and in return all CS/EE majors would need a class in C# to graduate?

And the link between corporate money and University research is something else you need to be wary of. Heaven forbid your project funding is cut because it won't be "marketable".

Still, it can certainly be more rewarding at times.

Re:Politics, Finance, etc.

[elmegil]

Still, it can certainly be more rewarding at times.

And at other times it can be maddening. I went the other way, sort of. I was a University sysadmin, and I now work doing support for Sun. I have to say I like the corporate world MUCH better. I never had any money for training in adademia. I had to teach myself, buy my own books, got to go to one conference in 7 years, etc. I was appreciated, but only extremely rarely in any meaningful way. Had to do everything with nothing, in other words. And while these days things are so fat in the corporate world as they used to be, they're still way better in terms of the resources I have to draw on than they ever were on even the best days at the university.

Alternative

[weregeek]

You might also find a more comfortable fit doing building/maintaining infrastructure for a university or college. Gives you a chance to experiment, and worry about something other than financial services for a change. You get a chance to work with the students in most cases, and there is always something interesting going on. I thought about moving toward science, and instead ended up very happy doing the things I love working for a University. It's a wonderful change from the corporate grind.

It all depends...

[HisMother]

You don't say what your current qualifications are, or whether you're willing to go back to school, and if so, for how long. "Going into Science" could mean anything from being a sysadmin for a biotech company, to getting a Ph.D in Chemistry and becoming a Professor who does research in computational chemistry.

It's hard to become a professor. There are typically hundreds of applicants for every opening. Unless you're really hot stuff, it's not much of a career plan -- only a few notches above "win the lottery," actually. And it takes years to get the degree.

OTOH, There are plenty of places to sysadmin besides ISPs. You might find that supporting intelligent, educated researchers was more gratifying than supported clueless dialup lusers.

Science is like any other business

[electroniceric]

It has its ups and its downs.
On the one hand, most research scientists are not money-motivated people at their core - they are interested in ideas and in the development of knowledge. If you relate to those goals, which it sounds like you do, you will relate well to the academic community. The scientific operations I've worked in are also less hierarchical than most business, and you get a strong team spirit from those you work with - you're working together on the same quest, rather than battling each other for approval.

Academic organizations, despite being filled with free-thinking people, are incredibly staid - both in terms of being set in their ways, and in terms of not making the wrong kinds of waves. It makes straightforward negotiating about things rather difficult. This is a nuisance when it comes to doing things like introducing new software or migrating a server. A professor in my dept (I'm a grad student) still writes C and PostScript to make plots, and nobody can or will convince him otherwise. Furthermore, many scientists fancy themselves quite the computer expert by virtue of having written a model in FORTRAN or some such.
Overall it's not a bad place to work, but the pace of things is very different from the corporate world.

Been there, done that

[cDarwin]

I made this transition about eighteen months ago; and, though your milage may vary, I found that it really did not satisfy my desire to 'be part of the solution'.

What I encountered were a lot of very egocentric political schemers who were far more interested in self promotion than in the advancement of science, or in what we might call 'saving the planet'.

None of the people to whom I was answerable had any knowledge of how to manage IT people and projects (I am not over-generalizing, really). Their demands were unrealistic. My hours were as insane as ever (with no over time). The pressure and deadlines were just as gruelling.

Also, as you mention, the pay sucks in the academy (although, the benefits can be very decent).

Now, I'm back in the private sector doing more interesting work with more interesting people for more money.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

Moving from Corporate to Not-So-Corporate

[EvilTwinSkippy]

I have had a rather busy life as a programmer, sysadmin, and general hacker. I started off at a univerisity, worked at a major chip manufacturer, A Dot Com, and finally a science Museum. I have been at the science museum for 4 years, which is longer than any other company so far.

You will find many of the same pressures, personalities, and conflicts in the non-profit sector. Do not kid yourself for a moment that job satisfaction is instantly had by working for the right cause.

That said, why am I working for a non-profit? Well actually all of the tech companies I have ever worked for were running at a loss, so perhaps I should say 501c3 organization..

But I digress. I work at the Museum for one simple reason: I am a shark in the guppy tank. The Alpha geek. When something needs to be done, they ask me how to do it.

In 4 years I have redesigned the network, switched the datacenter to Linux, and introduced new concepts like Workorders, and Inventory Control. I can't think of a place in the world that would let me change so much in so little time.

Alright who am I kidding. I really took the job sysadmining at the Science Museum because they have 2 T1 lines, 3 class C subnets worth of IP addresses, a toplevel domain I can spell over the phone, and a window overlooking my apartment from whence I use 802.11 wireless to suck down bandwidth like a dwarf on a firehose!!!

Academic politics preferable to industry bullshit

[TekkonKinkreet]

I think you're going to get a lot of people giving you the Kissinger line: "Academic politics are so vicious precisely because so little is at stake". I have a different take.

Last week I had lunch with a friend in the academic fold, to which I'm poised to return myself, and she complained with some rancour about the abundance of talentless hacks that cop credit and brown-nose their way to the top.

After four years with a VC startup (now being lowered into the earth) it all sounded quaint to me. I'd rather have talentless hacks stealing my work for a few years than watch the PHB lie his ass off to the board quarter after quarter without even a concept of shame, while the entire ill-conceived edifice crumbles around us all.

That is to say, go for it. Your reasons are exactly the ones I'd give, extrapolated a bit: I'd rather contribute in some infinitesimal way to the progress of science, however political or tedious the realities of research (who said "most of science is about as glamorous as ditch-digging", was it Asimov?), than help one more heinous moron pay off his SUV.

As for the money, I bet I'm not the only one here prepared for noble poverty, if such a thing still exists under the sun. Go, don't look back!

Anyone who thinks science=$$ is a fool

[t0qer]

Just yesterday on oprah they had a story about a whistleblower at a pharmacutical company.

Basically what was happening was Doctors were recieving kickbacks from the pharmacutical company for prescribing their pills. These kicksbacks ranged from vcr's and tv's all the way up to exotic trips to lavish resorts.

It didn't just stop at bribary either. The phamacutical company went as far as to show doctors how to overcharge medicare and keep the difference..

Unless you're digging ditches or pushing a lawn mower, most corporations are devoid of morals. Bottom line is to make investors happy, screw the employees and customers.

My best advice, do whatever the hell makes you happy and keeps your interest. Yeah times are hard now on all of us computer geeks. My friends that worked construction during the .com boom love to remind me of how i'm out of work now. I love to remind them that I have to charge them now VS fixing their computers for free. It's funny to watch their faces turn white when I tell them $50@hour

Re:Of course, I did the opposite...

[swb]

I worked in the administrative department of a University and moved out to corporate IT.

Crap aspects of the Univerisity:

• I worked in the administrative area, so there was no academic politics but there was politics, often hostile and highly personal.
• There was never enough money, we ran our systems until they broke, without software that would have made many jobs much easier. The lack of resources often made who got what resources *intensely* political.
• The paychecks were small and the standard bennies lame, especially the manditory state employee pension plan and the group death, er, health plan made all the bad things I've heard about Britain's National Health sound good.

Good aspects of the University:

• Lots of campus discounts and freebies. Classes could be taken for next to nothing, if they weren't out-and-out free. Deep discounts at the bookstore on software and computer bits (this meant something 15 years ago).
• Awesome internet connectivity and network access. Our office's specific technology sucked goat nuts, but campuswide there was a shitpile of stuff that could be utilized and lots of smart people.
• A really relaxed atmosphere -- from the bucolic surroundings, to pretty easy work and no slave hours.
• I got laid A LOT. Time, place, people, general zeitgeist? Who knows, but it was sure easy.

I moved to the corporate world because I kept getting told by lifers that if I didn't soon I wouldn't be hirable in the private sector, as gummint employees were seen as having too much lead in their asses. I also moved to the corporate world because I just wasn't making enough money to live on. I was sick of working a second job, sick of having to share a hovel with others. Poverty motivates.

There I days I miss the easy aspects of the old job -- better hours, nicer people -- but then I remember that I drive a nice car, have a nice house, travel at will and don't worry about money like I used to and it seems worth it.

IT may be greener

[Java Ape]

I used to work as an aquatic biologist. Since I only have an M.S. it's possible that my experience is substancially different than those with PhD's. But I've been much happier as a geek.

Funding for primary research has pretty well dried up, and directed research systems tend to be very intense, short-sighted, and goal oriented -- not a good environment for good science. The primary research positions are underfunded, and staffed by the "old dogs" with twenty years of publications under their belt -- you won't get a shot there easily.

The scarcity of funding has led to other undersirable characterists: disposable labor and fraudulent research. Basically, many programs are hiring staff as they need 'em, working them like dogs, then letting them go when they quit working 70 hour weeks. There have also been many disturbing rumors of falsified research, and of course almost nobody is wasting time reproducing other's work.

In addition, unlike the science of the last few decades, information is no longer freely distributed among researchers -- the push is to make money by patenting every little discovery. In short, the ivory tower has crumbled, and what's left is a dirty little sweatshop pursuing the almighty dollar with the same intensity as the most callous prostitute. I've been in IT for a number of years now, but work extensively with large numbers of scientists and engineers. They envy me, and I daresay rightly so, which is unfortunate -- science was my first love.

Re:Of course, I did the opposite...

[duplicate-nickname]

Well, I've been a sysadmin on both the academia side and administrative side of a university.

First, I'm not sure where you were at, but both Universities I have worked for offered great beneifits (paid medial, dental, drug Rx, life, tuition reimbursment, good vacation time, retirement plan), and these were public universities. The pay is about 20% lower than the corporate world, but the benifits made up for half of that. Job security was great....there is no chance for layoffs. :)

An the academic side, we were well funded. We had plenty of equipment to play with. However, dealing with faculty is a lot different than dealing with staff. Faculty want to do everything their way, and for the most part, you have to listen. This meant you had very little control over the desktop and had to accomodate a lot of different configurations on the server end (Win9x/NT/200/XP, Linux, Sun, Macs). Of course, our department did have a lot of research $$$ coming in....others did not, so I guess it's the luck of the draw.

On the administrative side, we didn't have as much money for equipment. We were mostly self-funded becuase we offered paid services to the university (stores, printing, etc), so occasionally we could get a chunk of coin to spend. Administrative deparments that are funded by the university's general fund probably have much less money for IT. Anyway, the administrative side of the university was much more corporate like, but still laid back and informal.

You're not going to get rich working for a university or the government, but it certainly has a lot to offer during these down times.

Here's a solution!

[irishkev]

Are you sick of doing the bidding of idiot PHBs, slaving away for nothing? I'm convinced that the answer is not, "More school." You'll just wind up in a different hamster cage or a non-corporate PHB structure, i.e. a university. The answer: Let's all move to Oregon and build a Yurt village! If you think I'm kidding, think again:

* Yurts are incredible! I've actually visited Pacific Yurts in Oregon. Too many benefits to list. Check out http://www.yurts.com/

* We can build our own wireless freaknet with cheap 802.11 gear, and bring the Internet (WAN) connection down from the skies. Hell, we may be able to get a cable modem connection.

* Organic gardening.

* Totally off grid: Solar, wind, hydro.

* Chicken tractors. Again, if you think I'm kidding, type "chicken tractor" into google.

* No mortgage!

* No PHBs for miles and miles!

* Once your show is set up, what will the costs be? Once you cut out the mortgage/rent and other allegedly essential BS, it's not that expensive to live.

Getting off the hamster wheel is NOT easy. We need bold action. This isn't thinking outside the box, it's saying, "I'm not playing this game anymore."

Now, clearly, this isn't for everyone, but I suspect that there are a bunch of potential off-grid yurt freaks lingering in the slashdot crowd. Hey, let's fire it up. Let me know!

-Kevin

I did it

[trandles]

I was a coder in industry for 4 years before going back to the university department I graduated from...physics. I went back as a linux/unix systems administrator and the department webmaster and have loved every minute of it.

The past 2.5 years have been bliss as I've been able to develop really great working relationships with several research groups and have even participated in their research from a computing perspective. My boss let's me develop my own projects. A university's organization is a lot more flat, with greater flexibility in picking/choosing/developing the work you'll do. Industry just doesn't have the luxury of time that a university does. You can take months really doing a project right without having some PHB breathing down your neck wondering why your deadline is slipping. Besides, an academic setting is totally tailored to the development of new ideas and research...

Computers, Perl, and Bioinformatics

[tgibson]

Go into a field that mixes computers and science. Like say bioinformatics or molecular modeling. I'm fairly ignorant on these subjects, but they seem much more interesting to do on a day to day basis. So that's where I'm trying to head.

A year ago I left the programming and management world to go back to get my Master's. The university I'm attending just started offering an option in computational biology. Once I started the computational biology option, it's been tremendously exciting. I've been approached by biologists who want me to roll my thesis work into their efforts--data mining biology-related data, etc. I've also been told by the department that biotechnology companies are just throwing grant money towards bioinformatics like crazy. If I decide to get my Ph.D., I'm assured it will be paid for.

And the best part of all? Check out BioPerl and bioinformatics.org. Open Source is quite popular in this field. It's incredibly refreshing to be hacking away at problems that don't involve the same old corporate data warehouse.

Political views

[mc6809e]

People have brought-up the issue of personal politics, but your general political views are also important. I work at a university with my wife who is a member of the faculty.

People don't get hired if they don't have the right political views. I'm not kidding.

Now, if you are politically very left, thats okay. You shouldn't have a problem. But if you are not, don't let your true feelings come out. Don't lie, but don't give them anything that they'll use against you.

A popular technique I've seen is the casual lunch. "Oh, lets have lunch while you're here for the interview." Say something verboten like "I think vouchers are a good idea" (real-example) and you are out of there.

Like I said, if you can agree with their political positions, or can shut-up about your own, then okay.

Just warning you.

We need people like that

[fpepin]

I've been working in various university labs in the last couple years (as an undergrad and now starting my Master's), and competent sysadmins are prized people there. Especially when you don't have any sysadmin at all (let alone a competent one). I've seen this especially in biology-related lab.

Successful profs will have pretty large amounts of money under their disposal, and a part of that goes on computers. But profs don't necessarily know anything about computers, and networks there have a tendency to grow by evolving rather than being organized.

Unfortunately, lots of them don't realize the value of a good sysadmin. They're afraid of spending the money there and don't realize how much of a difference it can make.

Of course, if you have an interest in biology and are not bad at programming/algorithms, a job with a bio-informatics component can be a blast (I'm biassed there, that's what I'm going into).

Even an ability to analyze the packages that exist out there and helping them decide what is relevant/useful for them. Then you can look at the algorithms used and see the pros/cons in each.

Of course, the pay is probably not that high there, and other people have posted a bit more about the work environment and such, but if you want to make a difference, that's one pretty good place.

And if you want to try science and stay in the corporate world, there are a bunch of scientific companies out there too, like pharmaceutical companies, that have big IT staffs there.

I did it, you can too

[forkboy]

Yep, after the third employer in a row either laid off of huge amounts of staff or went tits-up, I decided to go back to school for chemistry. (I was a network engineer previously)

I only had a year of college credits under my belt before, so I still have a ways to go before I finish my degree. I'm living off of loans and an 8.50/hr work study job in the chem lab. It's a far cry from the 70k salary I'm used to, but I don't live every day wondering if I'll have a job the next day and I don't have to carry a fucking pager/cell phone anymore. And I'm loving what I'm doing.

By the time I finish school now, I'll be able to get a job doing anything from pharmaceutical research to law enforcement. (minoring in Criminal Justice)

So, basically, if you can stand being poor again for a while, enjoy being free for a couple years while you get a degree in one of the sciences, and then enjoy your intellectual pursuits. It beats being on-call.

Re:Of course, I did the opposite...

[mc6809e]

The pay is about 20% lower than the corporate world, but the benifits made up for half of that. Job security was great....there is no chance for layoffs. :)

Job security IS great. I've worked at a university for a number of years and the fact is, if someone should be fired, they won't be. I have never seen it happen.

The worst that can happen to you for anything is that you'll be suspended with pay.

You don't even have to do your work. It is so difficult to fire anyone that they'll just hire someone else to do the work you were supposed to do.
The hours are great too: its strictly 9:30 am to 3:30 pm. You also get plenty of time-off. Where I'm at its 8 hours leave every two weeks = over 5 weeks off per year. You might have to tell them you have a tummy ache to get 2.5 of those weeks off.

You can even say things like: "Jihad is our path! Victory to Islam! Death to Israel! Revolution! Revolution until victory! Rolling to Jerusalem!"
without much consequence. Or maybe you'll
help found the governing council of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and then served on it.

Ooops, until you end up on O'Reilly factor shortly after the slaughter of 3000 people. Thats when the suspended-with-pay thing kicks in.

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20020701-7405733.ht m

You'll also get plenty of support from the faculty.

http://w3.usf.edu/~uff/AlArian/

Of course, this is only if you share your co-workers' political views. If you don't -- well, you wouldn't have been hired in the first place so it doesn't matter.

Postdoc

[jaoswald]

Note: for most academic positions in the sciences, you will be expected to go through at least one postdoctoral appointment (i.e. like grad school, but more pressure to create your own results in a very short time, somewhat better pay) before you are considered for tenure-track positions in academia.

Especially in the biological sciences, postdocs have become cheap labor, and multiple postdoc appointments are not rare. In physics (my field), multiple postdocs are a kiss of death: they mean you weren't good enough in your first postdoc to get some permanent or tenure track appointment, but in biology, what I hear is that there is a need for skilled laboratory ability (read: glorified technicians) and supervisors for large groups.

Even after a postdoc appointment, you'll aim for a tenure-track position, meaning you will have to work even harder for five to seven years, creating a research group from scratch, having to generate funding, while teaching the classes the senior profs don't feel like teaching. Then, if you've demonstrated an ability to bring research funding into the department, you might get tenure. Or, if you are turned down for tenure at a major research university, you might get offered tenure at a lower-ranked or four-year institution.

The tenure track is extremely stressful. Marriages are often destroyed in the process.

If you really want to be an academic in the sciences, it requires a great deal of sacrifice. Sure, there are theoretically other rewards. But it isn't easy to really find scientific problems that are simultaneously tractable, truly useful, haven't been done already, and can get funding. In theory, you can research whatever you want. In practice, if you can't get someone (government) to fund you, you aren't going to get very far.

Perhaps I'm biased because my Ph.D. thesis advisor went into the private sector (and is much happier there).

I recommend you read the book "A Ph.D. is not Enough!" for some insight into what is really required for success in academia.

Re:Postdoc

[Claudius]

Multiple postdocs weren't necessarily the kiss of death in physics when I went through the process not that many years back; I did two postdocs and had the luxury of turning down a couple of faculty positions before taking a staff position at a national lab. Either things have changed somewhat, or else much must depend on the field and the circumstances.

Alas, you never never never (never!) want to get passed over for tenure. If ever there were a genuine kiss of academic death, this would be it--no self-respecting university would opt to wear Princeton's or Stanford's hand-me-downs when they could just advertise in Physics Today and get 50+ highly qualified applicants who don't carry this baggage.

Personally, I just don't see what the allure is of academic life over, say, being a staff scientist at a national lab. I'd much rather just do research full-time and advise the occasional grad student and postdoc than put up with 300+ student intro courses, faculty committees from hell, petty university politics, and the pressure of bringing in enough research cash to satisfy a tenure committee. Your research ends up being very narrowly focussed while you try to carve a niche for yourself; this is the antithesis of creative scientific enterprise, IMO, and a great way of burning out during your most creative and productive years. All this while wearing the obligatory "I'm an assistant professor--kick me in the teeth" smile around the more senior faculty who control your fate.

I second the recommendation of "A Ph.D. is Not Enough!." It is an outstanding read and valuable information for those masochists who wish to try the academic route.

Some references

[Davorama]

I had a master's in engineering and was ABD with good career prospects when I finally realized that I was only moving towards being successful at becoming a miserable cog in the system

I came to the conclusion that for all but the true geniuses and egomaniacle sub-geniouses (the majority) happiness and job satisfaction were rare in the scientific community. Of course this is a gross generalization and I've gotten over it for the most part sence then but there is an element of truth to it.

Here's two references to give you a clue as to how I got so cynical about this.

Ziolkowski, T. (1990). The Ph.D. Squid. The American Scholar, 59(2), 177-195.

Imposters in the Temple, by Anderson, Martin

Lovin' Astronomy

[gnarly]

I made $20,000 per year or less for the first 32 years of my life. Last year, I got my PhD & now feel rich making over 40k/year as an astronomy postdoc, and yes I love my job. Most real working people are blown away when I tell them what I do for a living. They don't think its possible. Then they a sad look like "gee I wish I enjoyed my job that much." Luckilly I don't have any expensive habits like cars & TV.

The Academic environment provides a lot more freedom...just look at what D. Toresky has been able to do...(any Verizon employees want to try that on company time?). But yes there are ruts... if you aren't really excited about the kind of science you are doing, might as well to back to the corporate world.

WHO you work with is just as important as what you are doing. In most fields of science (especially the not-even-remotely-profitable ones like mine) you are expected to work hard, but if the results do not turn out as expected, or hoped, well that's part of the discovery process. This contrasts with the business world, where if expectations are not met, it is mandadory to find someone to blame.

PhD was required for my job, as with many, but there are some "loopholes" out there: for example part IT/admin and part research jobs which can evolve more in the research direction. These aren't easy to find, but you skip the 5 years+ of grad school...

The best academia job...

[mshiltonj]

The best academia is to be the guy that mops the floors in the math department at night. That way, in your spare time while the floor dries, you can solve the unsolvable equation left for the students on the chalk board. Maybe you will get to meet Robin Williams.

Re:Of course, I did the opposite...

[ader]

As someone whose tech support career started in academia, let me extend your lists:

Pros

• Dealing with everyone from the head of dept to undergrads.
  
• Opportunity to lecture (e.g. training first years on college systems).
  
• Wide, welcome use of open source software on cost grounds.
  
• Can reboot servers in middle of day. :-)
  
• When server goes down, people go for a coffee instead of running around like headless chickens and holding up your repair efforts.
  
• Intelligent, vaguely sentient colleagues not averse to reading manuals and learning new things.
  
• Opportunity to pursue research or higher degree. (Playing with new toys also counts as "research"!)
  
• Live like a student again, but with money.
  
• No sales or marketing people spoiling it for everyone.
  
• No open plan offices.
  
• Atmosphere vaguely like a dot-com, but with funding.
  

Cons

• You're unlikely to get your hands on any big iron (but you might be able to justify a Beowulf cluster).
  
• Fixed term job contracts.
  
• Vulnerability to cutbacks.
  
• Lower pay (although in the right place and circumstances, without a family to support, it can be plenty).
  
• Every year, many of your friends leave.
  
• Limited career prospects unless you go full steam on the research.
  
• Ivory towers.
  

Ade_
/

Re:Of course, I did the opposite...

[swb]

Next time major in political science. [...]
You get paid for doing work, stop being lazy, and learn to be more political.

I *did* major in political science, and I tried to be as political as possible, but in an administrative department even the justifications we had for better equipment and software weren't popular enough, I guess.

What do you expect at a college campus?

Well, 15 years ago I guess I *could* have expected a previous epoch of computing; mainframes, punch cards, expensive metered access. Maybe we got a break as an administrative department, who knows. I do know that the campus networking people were pretty responsive to us, but that could have been because we just wanted stuff fixed, and didn't want to have a symposium about it.

Once again its a college campus!

I know, but lots of campuses are in bad environments -- too much concrete, too urban, etc. The building I worked in was in an old building on the old part of campus, which had lots of green spaces. It's a lot nicer than the concrete jungle I work in now.

Typical player arent you? Getting laid alot is nothing to brag about unless its with the same woman.

Except I'm not a typical player and its not bragging; I think it illustrates a different mentality/lifestyle/population at Universities. More liberal? More fun? Who knows. The people in the corporate world are, in my experience, far more image/status/suburban-style-success oriented and I work now in about the most liberal type of corporate environment. I'd attribute 25% of the difference to subtle age difference (skews slightly older now), but I do think the University attracted less conventional people.

Science != Academia

[StarkII]

There seems to be the assumption that working is pure sciences is equivalent to working for an academic institution. That is simply not the case. I have worked for two different companies for the last seven years that both specialize in research and pure science. My current employer specialized in artificial intelligence research. There are no politics involved in my job, just science. If you are interested in science, don't just look to academia, there are some truly interesting scientific organization out there that do not suffer from the same problems that academia does. (politics, pay, respect, etc.) p.s. My company has been in the black every year since I started.

Mucho "public service" opportunities for techies

[shoppa]

I now feel I want to move into Science to use my skills in a productive, 'big picture' kind of way, rather than just helping a client get more rich through financial services.

Wanting to improve the "big picture" for many people, rather than just earn bucks for your employer, is an admirable goal. But you might be dissatisfied with a job in science/academia because very often the objectives are arcane and specialized and do not have any obvious "big picture" payoff.

Think about what you could do to help a government agency, charity, church, organization achieve their goals via IT. There's a lot of unexploited opportunities for computers and the web in these realms. Many of these organizations are technologically backwards, which means two things:

1. There are many opportunities to do obvious things. You may end up viewed as a technological savior just for coming in with relatively basic skills and knowing how to apply them.
2. But there will be some (or much) organizational inertia against taking advantage of these opportunities. This can lead to frustration.

Good luck!

Just made the move myself!

[stopbit]

After earning a PhD in psychology in 1998 [perception & psychophysics research] I started working for the military in a post-doc position.....well, good old Bubba Clinton decided we didn't need military research anymore and closed tha base I was working on........since I did all my research on M$ and *NIX machines, I was able to land a quick job in the IT field without having a degree in it! {ahhh the good old days). I figured that I could do it for a couple of months until I could get back into academia.

Well.....here is is 4 years later and I am just getting back into academia! The past 4 years were HOT! Huge contracts with HUGE rates and frills meant easy student loan payoffs, houses, cars, etc. Then the other shoe dropped.......everyone was getting cut, contracts dried up, pay scales slid like so much California property into the ocean.......I was actually out of work for 3 months! LUCKILY....I grabbed and stashed all the dough I could when I was making it and managed never to buy any stock or take any options ["These days if you own anything but land, you own a popcorn fart!" Rodney Dangerfield, Caddyshack]......so I sold some stuff off and started looking. Here is what I found:

Infrastructure support seems to have gone the way of the dodo.....there is no need to double staff when you have competent programmers who can also provide support [if they want a job, they will!]. Contracting agencies are more like pimps then anything these days and we lowly contractors are their techno whores....they know we are stuck and they take advantage of us to the hilt.....

Once this realization hit...I started looking HARD at academia.....obviously the degree helped, but I was lucky enough to land a position at a VERY small libral arts college teaching stats software [SPSS] to undergraduate psychology students and support the psych dept M$ and MAC boxes........the position isn't faculty nor is it tenure-tract and the pay is A LOT lower then the contracting gigs but, it is PERMANENT and the benefits are HUGE. I work 9-4 [I am the work-a-holic of the department] and enjoy every July off.

I don't think we will ever see another BOOM in IT again: the golden age is over, a 12 year old can become a MCSE now and he market is flooded with "certified" people willing to work for 1/2 of what you are.....so I am staying here for the rest of my life.

If you can get into it.....I highly reccomend it. Try to stay out of administration, too many politics and too much stress......work with students, it is very rewarding and a lot more fun.

Re:Of course, I did the opposite...

[cascadefx]

Pros

Dealing with everyone from the head of dept to undergrads.

Definitely a plus. It has been said that working at a University keeps you young. The average age (when you factor in the thousands of 17-23 year olds) hovers around 26. Every professor that I meet mentions this as one of the reasons they loved working at a Uni. That fresh-faced optimism and idealism (when not clouded by stupid drunken tricks) tends to rub off on you.

Opportunity to lecture (e.g. training first years on college systems).

Which can include supplemental pay. our rate for one class a semester is $2-3K. With three semesters possible, you can help the bottom line considerably.

Wide, welcome use of open source software on cost grounds.

Not at our shop, unfortunately . There are a few evangelists around (like me), but mostly we are an Apple, IBM Mainframe, and Microsoft shop. Our former department head was sold on Microsoft and they are really entrenched right now. Hopefully our state budget crisis will open some eyes and ears for a proposal I am working on.... hmmmmm.

Can reboot servers in middle of day. :-)

Ouch!!! That one hurts! It happens, though. You live through it, but people in academia don't warm up to the concept any more than in industry and students (and the student paper) tend to laugh and point.

When server goes down, people go for a coffee instead of running around like headless chickens and holding up your repair efforts.

Some of our people are the chickens and others grab a donut. It all depends on whether it was your server... or network segment... or classroom full of 30 computers... or exam software application server that went down. I've run with the best of them and my frame (thankfully smaller due to new applications of something called exercise) has been mishappen by the donuts.

Intelligent, vaguely sentient colleagues not averse to reading manuals and learning new things.

I totally agree. My current team is just that. We share knowledge and sick (practical joke based) senses of humor. Most of all, we try to teach and learn stuff to and from one another.

Opportunity to pursue research or higher degree. (Playing with new toys also counts as "research"!)

Show me one support person who has one workstation and I will show you an IT office administrator. Lots of time, encouragement, and opportunity to learn new things.

Live like a student again, but with money.

Sort of... on the money part anyway.

No sales or marketing people spoiling it for everyone.

Just technology committees made up of people who don't know anything about technology. Promises are made that have to be delivered... even if technically impossible.

No open plan offices.

I have my own office which I share with two student helpers. Small, but private. Plus, I only HAVE to see my supervisor (across campus) once a week... though I usually do it more.

Cons

You're unlikely to get your hands on any big iron (but you might be able to justify a Beowulf cluster).

True. There is definitely a show me first, before I will spend the money on it... only you don't have anything to do the show-and-tell with. There is a certain amount of magic involved in this. Prove it with a small system made up of scrap first. Turn it into production and then it becomes a line item. Evangelism is also required in some of the oddest circumstances.

Fixed term job contracts.

Ours are renewable and after so many years you have to be given (after first period) 6 months notice, (second period) 1 year, and (third) 18 months before they can let you go.

Vulnerability to cutbacks.

Depends on where you are and how contracts work (see above). At our Uni, open positions that are not filled go first. IT people, being so integrated into everything, are a little more protected than you think. The university is also aware that any position they let go is going to be harder to fill with incoming talent (willing to work at university rates) in the future.

Lower pay (although in the right place and circumstances, without a family to support, it can be plenty).

No argument.

Every year, many of your friends leave.

This is one of the saddest aspects. Your professional colleagues strike out of more pay and the student help (some of which you get quite attached to... like they are your younger brothers and sisters or children) renews every 4-6 years. By the time they come to work for you, they may only have 1 year or 2 left.

Limited career prospects unless you go full steam on the research.

Also true. But you could work (for a lot less money) towards advanced degrees and join faculty (some of which, depending on academic area, get paid quite nicely). You could also pick up side work like technical consulting and so forth that would not only suppliment your income but your credentials.

Ivory towers.

There can be some big egoes to contend with as well.

Overall though, I think it is a worthy plunge especially if you want to escape from or wait out the dot-com/business crash for a while.

Re:Of course, I did the opposite...

[cascadefx]

Blockquoteth:

Except I'm not a typical player and its not bragging; I think it illustrates a different mentality/lifestyle/population at Universities. More liberal? More fun? Who knows. The people in the corporate world are, in my experience, far more image/status/suburban-style-success oriented and I work now in about the most liberal type of corporate environment. I'd attribute 25% of the difference to subtle age difference (skews slightly older now), but I do think the University attracted less conventional people.

I am not sure what you are getting at, but a whole lot of sleeping around is one reason an office in the largest major city close to me has a really high syphillus rate. Maybe people are just trying to avoid something like that (let's forget about morals and so forth).