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Support Your Local ... DNUG?
Akallabeth, the Arch-Lich writes: "New to town, I was trolling around for a LUG or two, and found this. Find your own DNUG here. Now, I can see the need for a support group for .NET users group, as no one really knows what it does. But, an UG founded by for-profit companies? That are Microsoft Certified Partners? With prize givaways listed on the meeting schedule? Something don't smell right. Oh, and they have banner ads too." However genuine or organized, local "support groups" seem like a good idea to me. Maybe we could all go toss a frisbee?
I don't see the problem. You admit that there's a need for .NET user groups. Who cares that they're run by for-profit groups or by Microsoft partners ? I don't even care if they charge people to use them, since nothing is preventing anyone from starting a "free", more traditional user's group. If there's a need, it's GREAT to see it being served - however it happens. Do you have a problem with Open-source companies charging for their consulting time ?
Geez, ten seconds and I'm already a troll.... dosen't ANYBODY watch Monty Python's flying circus?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?
I'm done with sigs. Sigs are lame.
Get your sandwich boards and banners ready!
.net people's physical locations we can show up and protest!
Now that we know the
Why protest? Because we don't like anything Microsoft!
No... really... a better idea would be to show up and hand out slackware and debian CD's.
Get your Unix fortune now!
LUGs attract people to Linux... usually just out of shee curiosity... I imagine that Micro$oft et al. are trying to accomplish much the same thing with their DNUG in terms of attracting people to .NET... even if only out of sheer curiosity...I mean, after all, how many install nights has your LUG had??
Oh god, that woman is John Romero!
I don't remember anyone making a big stink when US Robotics started Palm User Groups. What's the big deal? It's not like people are being snatched off the street and forced to attend these groups as if they were "political re-education camps." Besides...who else would be better suited to start such groups...Red Hat?? No, maybe Oracle...uh, no...AOL?
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
This doesn't really seem all that strange to me. My mother was a member of DECUS (Digital Equipment Corporation Users Society) in the early 1970s. When I tried to go to their homepage, I was sent to encompassus.com -- encompass is HP's user group.
There are lots of these out there. Just because it's for profit doesn't mean that it can't have a community behind it.
Bill
I'm a senior developer for the company I work for and I've been using .NET for just over 2 months. Management has it in their heads that they want to move our web-based contract negotiation software to .NET in the next year or so, somehow we have to get everyone up to speed on .NET as fast as possible. DNUG sounds like an ideal way of getting people started.
"Something don't smell right"
I hear that bias clogs ones sinus cavities.
crazy dynamite monkey
Many of the comments have been of the form "$OtherCompany has created UGs for $OtherProduct, so what's the big deal?" And I agree, if that is all this is, then more power to them.
However, given Microsoft's long history of AstroTurfing, I think folks are right to be suspicious of this - is this real grassroots support or is this manicured AstroTurf?
Remember, real grass gets weeds, Astroturf doesn't. If these are REAL UG's, then there will be plenty of "Hey, this (doesn't work | sucks | is too hard)" type complaints, both in the meetings and on the web sites. If this is AstroTurf, then it will be all smiles and roses and drink the KoolAid, and Microsoft will point to these pseudo-UGs and say "See all the support you get from the user community? Just like Open Source!"
www.eFax.com are spammers
We have product give-away door prizes at our local Linux Users Group. Next month the give-away is Yellow Dog Linux CDs.
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
There are also Java User Groups going up all over as well, and have been for several years. I'm not sure if they were founded by Sun or are funded by them, but Sun does have a website listing info about them, and it seems there are currently 954 of them.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
Actually they're 12-Step programs...
Picture a dozen people on folding chairs in a church basement. A guy stands up.
Guy: "Hi, I'm Larry. I'm a dot net user..."
Group: "Hi Larry!"
Sorry -that just popped into my head when I saw that it was a DNUG - I figured it was for people who wanted to stop using it.
Forgive me, it's late here...
Cheers,
Jim
-- My Weblog.
Sure, ther presentations are going to be slanted toward ".NET good, everything else bad". And there's nothing wrong with that! Any rational consumer is going to expect a slant at ANY user group. It's not "astroturfing" or propaganda, it's giving the people what they want! You aren't going to see "How XP Saved My Life" at at a LUG, either.
If the sponsor does not organize well and provide good content, the members are free to vote with their feet; and almost certainly will.
Bringing likeminded geeks together is a good thing. (As long as there is adequate ventilation!)Would you have the same reaction to say, IBM sponsoring a LUG?
Not so much a sig as a lack of one.
Get'em all, from Slashdot too :-):
sgis ddo ekil t'nod i
I'm all against "Microsoft" crap in general okay? I think it's scary what they do as a corporation and that they act without conscience. I think the U.S. Department of Justice is really dragging their feet and with the help of other governmental agencies, will simply get away with their criminal behavior.
That is my preface opinion of Microsoft.
That said, I have to defend their 'free speech' rights and rights to assemble. Sure, it's "unpopular speech" but unpopular is based on which circle you find yourself in the middle of, not any universal moral code.
Furthermore, I dislike MOST "UG's" because they too closely resemble "church services." I've visited a few LUG meetings and the only thing missing were there random "ahmen brother!" responses from the audience. Slashdot is smelling of the same disease right now.
Let them do their DNUG. It's in everyone's best interest that freedom of speech and assembly be preserved. Respect the rights of others or you will surely find your own in jeopardy.
Oh wait... damn mozilla. Bannerblind is filtering them out again.
ObOntopicQuestion: Shoud we have a DGUG (Dot Gnu Users Group) then?
I thought I saw DUNG -- and I thought to myself "Now THAT is M$!" -- damn dyslexia...
Karma whorin' since 1999
And of course, they'll be PUG-ugly!
Sorry.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
Computer software or systems user groups have been around for a long time. There were often strong connections between the user groups and the company the groups.
Digital, IBM, and others used to give the source of EOL's software to their user groups to distribute. Company sales reps would demonstrate new product releases or use user groups as customer feedback groups.
Corporations want that kind of support, involvement, and buy-in from their user base and it is worth a fair amount of financial support to user groups to get it.
And the FPs'll be trying to deal with M$ (and M$'s habit of co-opting, folding, melding or simply stealing [plenty of evidence and M$ losses in court to that effect,] the competition's app.s, changing the OS specs [when the FPs can even get them,]) and trying desperately to become rich as Creosus themselves in an era when the world has come to see software for what software really is: overhead.
Software for profit is a mug's game and they're hurtin'. They NEED (ab)user's groups.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Would you have the same reaction to say, IBM sponsoring a LUG?
If IBM sponsored a LUG, it would be because IBM's employees are Linux users. They would not promote any IBM product exclusively. It would work like any other company-sponsored UG.
An ISP I used to work for hosted PLUG's meetings for a few months. The company was not promoting anything, they were simply letting PLUG use their facilities and network connection. Of course, this creates goodwill towards the ISP among PLUG members, which brings the company more money.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Whenever I read stuff like this I am reminded that most Slashdotters are fairly young and have little idea of what has been common practice for decades in the computer industry. Microsoft has had user groups for most of their products for years in fact the there's a link to finding local Microsoft user groups right of the MSDN front page.
In fact you don't have to take my word for it or that of MSDN, why not just Google for 'Microsoft "user group"' see how many thousand hits come back.
ObLegalDisclaimer: I work for Microsoft but this post represents my opinions and does not necessarily reflect the thoughts, opinions, strategies or plans of my employer
... who thinks it's just sad that the parent post is modded as "Interesting"
I have my threshold set to 3, and as I write this there are 9 comments - 1 "Funny" and 8 that are saying in one way or another "Big Deal."
.NET where the only thing they'll learn is how to adopt Micro$oft technology. Maybe we should form anti-support groups where we can get together and talk about ways in which we can sqash the competition (competition == Micro$oft if you haven't been paying attention) by using laws and contracts!
Come on, imagine what it must be like to be a Slashdot editor. It's a hard job trying to stir up controversy day-in and day-out. Then to post something like that and see everyone respond "oh, big deal" must break their hearts!
So here, timothy, this one if for you:
Yeah, how dare Micro$oft do this! User groups were founded in the spirit of helping people learn things that they could do with their computer without influence of commercialism (except when hardware and software vendors would be invited to give talks). They're just trying to suck people into
(I can't believe I just wasted 10 minutes writing that when I know it will be modded down as troll)
Them vs. Us is a pointless game to play. You're better off smoking crack. At least you'll meet interesting people.
_______
2B1ASK1
How can people mock things, without knowing what they are mocking? Usually this never stands, but because its Microsoft it's ok? C'mon, if you dont know what .NET does, you should take 2 minutes and figure it out.
.NET at this moment.
There's thousands of people developing applications for
There was a time when Microsoft had to _struggle_ to appease user groups- MUGs, for instance, Mac user groups. The fact that now they can just sort of mass produce them is no sign of a healthy computing environment. It does illustrate that Microsoft are getting disturbingly good at orchestrating every factor of public life that touches them, but that's no blessing either.
They're not doing it to be nice.
If Microsoft is giving away free nugs, I'm signed up.
I hear the stuff they grow up in that part of the country is pretty dank.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
There have been user groups since before linux existed....
.Net user group - if there are users then why not ?
I have belonged or belong to Progress user Groups (PUG), Windows NT User Groupsd, Windows 2000 user groups, (these actually supported by MS), Mac user groups, Unix user groups (SCO used to have some good ones) and many many others.
user groups are not just the preserve of Linux or OSS - this is a sorry indictment on the age of Slashdot Staffers and not worthy of a front page post - so what is there is a
Please post some actual news and insight instead of this ok.
I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
I disagree, but that's OK, because apparently Chasuk disagrees, too:
Then, although blank_coil and I seem to be saying the same thing, and although Chasuk has just agreed with blank_coil about the use of P2P software, Chasuk then says,
which is where I get lost. At this point I would normally say that Chasuk is spending too much of his life reading other people's
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
(When do they start handing out the free MS goodies?)
Your Servant, B. Baggins