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Wireless Dilemma at Newton's House?
"The alternative approach just seems silly:
Proposed: Add another 128k ISDN line and 2 ordinary phone lines in one building (for office use) install 2 phone lines in another building (for other use) and continue using the existing 128k line in another building (used for free public internet access) - the network option would come from using the Internet and a VPN (the 4th building wouldn't be connected in this scenario). Hard line (cabled) ethernet cannot be used as it will be both be too expensive and involve digging underground which is not allowed.
Being a charity, The National Trust (the owners) aren't going to invest in some experimental wireless kit that might not work. But surely someone out there in the Slashdot community can help to ensure that it will. It must be possible, surely?"
If there are existing phone lines, is it not possible to set up some sort of VPN over DSL that does not require the addition of more phone lines?
... why does this historic place need to be networked? :)
Also
the blood has stopped pumping, and he's left to decay
the me that you know is now made up of wires
T'aint cheap, but maybe a laser to laser connection set up between buildings. You should only have to point the access points out the window at each other.
If a half dozen cubicle walls can drop WiFi to background noise, I have _no_ _idea_ what stone walls would do.
Can you beg borrow or steal a 2.5 Ghz cordless phone and see how well it works?
As far as exposed antennae, 802.11 basestations get along with 6" antennae. My unit works a good 1500 feet out the back of my house (wood structure) the unit sits on top of the Fridge, and there are quite a few windows on that side of the house.
Place the basestation on somebody's desk with a good view of the other buildings. I'll bet it'll jump the gap.
A card is less than $100, a Basestation is less than $180(us), have some fun running aroung the campus with netstumbler, it's good for a few days exercize.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
When will people get it into their heads! This is a historical site.
Use the correct solution for the problem, people!
Strap packets to the legs of carrier pigeons and get them to transmit the information between the buildings.
--
Employing incompetence: $35/h
Fixing the resulting mistakes: $1000's
Employing me: Priceless
This sounds like a job for RF1149.
No need for antennas, just an open window.
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
IP Over Apples Falling From Trees. I'd have to look up the RFC -- I don't have it handy.
This is an absurd question. The person asking this question knows the answer and even nearly admits it in the question.
The restriction against high-gain antennae is prohibiting typical aesthetic eyesores from being attached to the building. Wireless networking antennaes are nothing like digital sattelite dishes, or big tv aerials. Wireless networking antennaes are essentially invisible and wouldn't violate the restrictions mentioned. The could even be obscured from sight within faux lamposts, etc.
seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
EDITORS: Can you post a picture of the buildings, diagram? A VRML or other CAD file? Notes and diagrams on existing wiring would be enormously helpful.
Can you run fibre through the plumbing system?
I'm sure we (as a community) can come up with something inexpensive and innovative.
On the assumption that you can't concentrate a 802.11 signal strong enough to punch through the brick walls...
:) Assuming that the rooves are slanted, it would be no effort to put a high-gain (directed) antennae in the roofs to point to one or two other buildings. It might even be possible to use omni-directional antenna, and cut down on the number of antennae needed.
I seriously doubt the roof is made of brick, too
There are also 802.11 amplifiers available. In the US, you're allowed to pump them up to 1W before the FCC come knocking. That should be plenty, even with an omnidirectional rather than directional amtenna.
Go get the local high school drama club to make up some mock bricks out of styrofoam that carrier waves can easily pass through. All they really require is a weekly paint job to keep them looking authentic since they would need to stand up to the elements...
...ok, ok I give up! stop hitting me!...
Unfortunately, digging underground is not allowed.
Actually 1 Metre is 1.09 yards... Close enough for a rough estimate.
Britain (not just England) uses SI units for most things...
Though for beer we still use pints... And not those American 16 ounce pints, but real imperial 20 ounce pints. And speed is usually in Miles per hour... and distances in miles...
Z.
-- Under/Overrated is meta-moderation, and therefore is Redundant.
A few pictures of Woolsthorpe Manor are here. I would propose putting the arials inside, against the windows in the attic (no tour groups go through there I would venture to guess). The 2.4Ghz signals could pass through the glass unimpeded and would not blemish the exteriors of the structures.
-- Greg
Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
Now, answering:
The mention of "high gain aerials" points the way.
Find a point in each building where rf-transparent material (glass would be best, but wood sheltered from rain would do (2.4Ghz and water, don't you know)) faces a spot of similar material on a building you want in the network. Finding a trail of thses, connecting the dots, you can then lace the campus together with 802.11 WAPs, pringle-can antennae, and some N jumper cables, and you're using 802.11 to bridge the buildings, probably for about $200US per building. Note that the antennae don't have to be at the exterior wall. Inside a nice DRY wooden cabinet, able to see the target through a window, will do nicely. Sure, the wall may block signal, but it's signal you don't care about anyway. I don't know of any WAP that can be both a bridge and an access point simultaneously, so you'd need a second wap in the building if you want to use 802.11 to the nodes. Otherwise, you just hang the bridging WAPs on the wired network.
OOH! Do these buildings have cupolae? If so, enough rf should shoot through the slits to propogate even during mild rain (put the WAP inside a tupperware container or something).
i presume that this may be read by non-techy people so I repeat what alot of peoplle know that read this page sorry about that but I am trying to convince charitys in the UK to use a cost effective solution and not go wasting their money on PC's and such I would much rather they employ a gardner or handy man to keep propertys in good condition than spend money on upgrading and just use the best solution
yes and you could do it with any modern OS (Microsoft Windows XP, Mac OS X.2 and yes linux )
the cost to a charity would be the decideing factor
I would use Debian debian or Redhat also look for a local Linux User Group (LUG) these people would donate their time and expertise I am sure (-:
find UK LUG's here
useing a linux based solution would mean that you may not have to buy any new machines as you could use any that you already have
in terms of presenting information (I presumne thats why you want them networked )
THE best solution is to make a website that as well as you can publish to the world through a website you can also setup Linux box as a kiosk so that you can view nothing else except what you want (just think of the web broser area in full screen ) have a look around www. I am sure they have a solution I just cant remember the link (anyone help out ?)
also remember that DSL or ISDN is a bill every month so you might want a private link to cut costs
also if you have a grant that you can only spend on network I would recomend getting a IR link between the buildings (I have a backup link for the fiber that is between two Uni buildings and no these are not like your IR link on your PC but about 1-2Mbps which is pretty good) I cant remember the people that make it anyone got any good recomendations for IR links ?
hope this helps please contact people in your LUG and when you have a solution up and running let slashdot know !
regards
John Jones
No need to dig underground. BT will probably have already done this.
Ask BT to install an EPS-8 or EPS-9 circuit. (Someone's already mentioned "alarm circuit", which is what these are often used for). These are just 4 or 2-wire circuits with no amplification. They are only available when the two end points are on the same local exchange. Cost is approximately £500pa. Of course, you'll need something on the end, these people sell equipment from Tut Systems. Ask to speak to Hannah & tell her Matt sent you.
Matt
If there are existing phone lines, is it not possible to set up some sort of VPN over DSL that does not require the addition of more phone lines?
MWAHAWHWAHWAHWAHWAHWAHWAHWAHWAHWAHWAHWAHWHWWA HWA WHAHWA WAHWHWAH WAHAWHWAHWAHAW HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
*wipes the tears from his eye*
DSL in Lincolnshire? You MUST be kidding right. Anyone who wants broadband in this farming hellhole has to pay $1500 to get satellite installed, and then a nice $120 per month to BT for 512kbps downstream and 256kbps upstream!
That said, Boston, Louth and Sleaford have DSL in the town centers, but that'd be like only Dallas and Austin having DSL in Texas.
To put it bluntly.. BT are a bunch of cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life,snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless,hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sacks of monkey shit who couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery.
mogorific carpentry experiments