Slashdot Mirror
Changing Face of Linux?
standards writes "Reuters is reporting that pony-tailed Linux Users have been seen mingling with executives in short-sleeved golf shirts. The article suggests that real technology guys don't wear shorts, T-shirts or baseball caps." the article is mostly about the business focus of Linux these days, although I think the writer is a couple years late since I think this was really the case about 4 LinuxWorld's ago ;)
the article is mostly about the business focus of Linux these days, although I think the writer is a couple years late since I think this was really the case about 4 LinuxWorld's ago ;)
;)
If so, doesn't this mean Slashdot is ALSO a couple years late with this story
That will do it...
Wall Street loves Linux!
VA Software
Redhat
An interesting chart with comparisons
I have been pwned because my
You see, four years ago, back when Taco was a paper millionaire, he purchased some clothing that normal, self-respecting people wouldn't mind wearing in public. He is proud of this fact, and is therefore telling us this story which has about as much relevance to us today as my hot stock tip on VA Linux does. (Short it!)
I'm just wandering, what kind of rebellion will next generation choose ;-)
Linux is 11 years old today.
While it's good to read about some Linux hackers (not crackers) who don't fit the stereotypical "GNU hippie" mold, I wonder whether this might have a negative effect on the position of Linux in the marketplace. It seems to me that Linux has always to some extent banked on the "outsider" images of its users and community. If it starts to look like we've all turned into suits, then we lose what little appeal we have. So don't shave your beards yet... ;-)D
(that's me winking, with a beard!)
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
Actually, I think I'd only thank you if you were using unscented deodorant and NO perfume/cologne. Maybe that's just me, though.
Well, it's up to me to choose my poison. I can drink beer or even apple juice. Who cares ?. I'm still a linux geek at heart.
-- Live Long And Prosper
The funny thing that I found about this is that most "real" IT guys are clueless idiots.
It isn't about what you wear. Besides, if you business has a dress code (most do), then you are going to have to abide by it.
What a stupid article.
Fucking dress-code nazis...
Rant level: high.
Why, oh why, must every non-technical magazine make these 3 stupid things every time there is a linux article?
stupid thing 1: Every linux article seems to mention that only X% of the _sold_ servers are running linux.
And non-internet servers? What about intranet servers. file servers and so on?
What about all those servers that the admin has bought a $5 magazine with a linux CD and installed linux on?
stupid thing 2: Linux users spent only $80 million on the software, less than one percent of the amount spent on all operating systems for all computers.
yes, what is so suprising with this? even if you buy a boxed version with support it's still a lot cheaper then windows.
Why can't a single article mention this?
stupid thing 3: Linux sales are expected to grow...
yes... that's good. But what about _actual_ usage?
Don't forget all those computer that uses a downloaded or magazine bundled copy.
I all basicly boils down to one thing.
There is no way to really know how many computers/servers are running linux.
So stop compare it with how many windows/other servers there are.
You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
I've been a sys admin for about 10 years now, and I've spent plenty of time in front of clients. Maybe it's just the companies I've worked in, since they are IT services and integrators, maybe not. It has ranged anywhere from executives and clients taking tours of the data center to being the technical lead on various projects for the clients to architecting the solution for contract bids. Just because you are a sys admin doesn't mean appearance and hygiene isn't important. I have yet to see a company, at least a traditional IT company, that would have found what you describe acceptable.
In my universe I'm perfectly normal, it's not my fault you don't live in my universe.
Dress code has frequently come down to praticallity.
Long hair has long been the choice of the gentry because they it takes a hell of a lot of looking after and shows that you are of a high enough class to have long hair.
Finger nails are the same, a working class woman could never praticly keep long finger nails, they would break, long nails show you status in society.
During the revolutions accross europe that shunned the upper classes short hair became the fassion because it was a pratical way of not dieing! and it has been that way ever since.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
In the latest Clint Eastwood movie, Blood Work, the computer geek was a Linux guy (based on his bookshelf full of Linux books).
so buisness is using linux more. so what ?
i don't mind if people make money out of linux or save money by using it as long as they don't make it "un-free" !
i think that as long as the developers keep cranking out the level of software that we have come to expect, i could care less what they wear.
Well, I see you are a consultant, something which I am not. That alone probably gives you infinitely more contact with clients than me.
I sit in the air conditioned server room eating Doritos making sure users have their passwords and generally keeping things in order. My appearance is completely tangential to the work I do.
Perhaps if I ever decided to give up the technical side of server administration and go into the side that prances for customers, then perhaps my grooming habits would change. As it stands, I'd rather keep my dignity and do a job that can be respected than sell my soul like that. And as long as I'm doing what I love, my grooming habits have no bearing on how well my duties are performed.
As a consultant, I can understand how your appearance would make a difference, though.
What does the lenght of hair to do with respect?
mp3: l33t term for empty.
Being a geek used to be bad (80s) then trendy (90s) and now it is seen as necessary.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Hmmm...not only does Reuters not want to call those that attacked WTC and the Pentagon terrorists, (we don't want to OFFEND the Islamic world, now do we?) they also can't figure out that Linux went mainstream quite some time ago. Go figure.
It's time to put an end to media giants. Vote with your wallet.
Lack of "grooming skills" goes hand in hand with a gross lack of social skills: The ability to interoperate with other people in a productive way. Show me a bearded, stinky UNIX "guru", and I'll show you someone who absolutely no one can stand to be around (hint: They're the same person!)
What does the lenght of hair to do with respect?
That question goes either way: While one could rant about the tyranny requesting that they look presentable in the workplace, on the flip side what exactly are they hoping to achieve through their look? Let's face it: Most people pursue a certain look because they want to be stereotyped-> Wear gangland outfits to be perceived as "tough" and not to be messed with, and grow a big beard and forsake things like bathing and you'll be a "Unix guru", regardless of actual knowledge of skill.
Say what you will about my social skills, that isn't what I was hired for.
/dev/null.
If they wanted another nerf-warring, hacky-sack, frisbee pseudo-athlete, then I'm obviously the wrong choice. If you want someone who is dedicated to keeping the business computers in a usable state, then I'm your man.
If you think the computers are put off by my attitude, register your complaint with
Actually, I have been everything from the guy who administers the servers while sitting in an air-conditioned room eating Doritos to a desktop support manager to a technical lead for project teams to a consultant supporting external employees. In every case I interacted with clients.
As it stands, I'd rather keep my dignity and do a job that can be respected than sell my soul like that.
Funny, I haven't changed, I still have my dignity, and I have a hell of a lot of fun in my job. I usually wear Dockers and a polo shirt, my hair isn't particularly short, but it is well groomed. Currently I'm a senior technology consultant. My job can be respected, my customers save money and implement better systems because of me. Some of the implement Linux because of me. Or is it somehow not respectable to provide expertise to people who don't have it? What is the open source business model? It's about providing services rather than intellectual property.
As a consultant, I can understand how your appearance would make a difference, though.
My first job in IT was as a help desk technician for a small ISP. I did that part time while I went to college. The owner expected decent appearance as well as ability. It's been that way ever since. It's not "as a consultant" that appearance makes a difference, it's in general. It is a matter of perception by employers, co-workers and customers. No matter the old saw about not judging a book by it's cover, perception and appearance is reality.
In my universe I'm perfectly normal, it's not my fault you don't live in my universe.
What does the lenght of hair has to do with a presentable look?
mp3: l33t term for empty.
Well in the corp I work for, a dress code is mandatory. Sure, it's business casual but that does imply collered shirts and pressed slacks.
Sure, some of those dudes have the classic pony-tail and guru beard, but the clothing doesn't make the man. Hawaiian shirt or not, the guy in the polo and dockers is just as big of a loser as the rest of us.
Wait a minute...
What is music when you despise all sound?
I can sympathize with you on dress codes. I have been a Unix Sys Admin for the past 8 years. Since I have moved to Colorado, I have wore jeans and hiking boots to work for the past 6 years which I have thoroughly enjoyed :) I, however, do bathe and use deoderant and also have my hair short which is my preference (low maintainence). I also like jeans because they are also low maintainence.
The lifestyle of Colorado as with the other Rocky Mountain states is considered very informal. People wear jeans to Church as well as high class resturaunts as well.
However, two months ago, I had my annual review with the boss and he mentioned that times are different now and because of the dot com bust, he mentioned that the jeans and the boots have to be left at home and I need to wear dress pants and shoes. Dress shoes are not that practical (especially with th snow) and are uncomfortable. Hiking boots on the other hand are comfortable and are nice when it snows.
I was pretty pissed and I am still pissed about it. I inquired on why the change and he mentioned that some higer ups who work in the Wash. DC Office put out an edict saying that appearance and seriousness about business must come first as suggested by the Marketing group. WTF ! I myself have no customer contact and no "high up" contact. I do have to move equipment and nice clothes don't last long when doing physical labor.
The Dot Com revolution was nice since it unshackled the workplace from all the unreasonable rules and regulations. From what I understand, this recessionary time is being used to return the shackles. Also a marketing group representing the clothiers who sell suits are pushing real hard to get the suit returned to the office and they have sponsored Dress Up Thursday. This means more of my hard earned money has to be spent on bullshit such as suits and the dry cleaning bill that accompany them.
This year was the first year I ever went to the LinuxWorld Expo and let me tell you I was very dissappointed. It was ALL business. And it was like all the companies were jerking each other off. We've partnered with this company, that company, we have this product with this company, that product with that company. The HP party was even pretty much all exec's trying to look cool as linux tech heads, but you could see through the fake pocket protectors they were giving out at one of the booths
My opinion, return linux to its root, give it back to the people. There seemd to be NO innovation with in the linux world(except at the open-source boothes:debian, bayonne, etc etc). Despite what business people tell you, businesses actually hinder innovation.
Just my opinion.
B.C.
ReactOS, WINE and Mingw are the next step. It only took 9 years to clone UNIX via Linux. Now it is time to take the battle to the next step. We need to do what is left to make WINE and Mingw share a common header system while importing the WINE dlls in to the ReactOS win32 subsytem. The best part is with it being free and not M$ you can have a working posix subsystem.
Free Unix? Free Windows. http://www.reactos.com
Really?
(/me looks down at shorts and "Got Root?" t-shirt, as well as Teva sandals)
Hmm, guess I must not be a "real technology guy".
Seriously, who do these people think they're kidding? There will *always* be a contingent of us who wear shorts and t-shirts, and quite frankly we don't *care* what other people think of that.
To conclude, I leave you with a quote:
Nathan's blog
As stated in sub-thread
ReactOS, WINE and Mingw are the next step. It only took 9+ years to clone UNIX via Linux. Now it is time to take the battle to the next step. We need to do what is left to make WINE and Mingw share a common header system while importing the WINE dlls in to the ReactOS win32 subsytem. The best part is with it being free and not M$ you can have a working posix subsystem.
Free Unix? Free Windows. http://www.reactos.com
I completely agree. if you have no customer contact, what's the sense in dressing up? hauling computers and dressing nicely makes no sense. marketing needs to be all prettied up sure, but's it's not practical for IT. I'm still working in dot-coms (what's left of em) here in Austin, but I'm worried that my next job will require some dress slacks and button down shirt. they seem to use the dot-com bust as a model for why causal dress failed, it didn't fail, companies with no business plans failed; dress had nothing to do with it.
P
Strange how fashion at times has come down to un-practicality, proving chic-ness and how rich you are by how impractical your actions are.
Blue bloods were called that because they were so pale that their veins showed through their skin. They weren't like the field workers, out in the sun all day, and they wanted to prove it. Now that normal jobs are inside and not outside, I find it a bit ironic now that having a tan now is chic, showing that you're not stuck inside all day.
A couple Halloweens back I had one of those long frilly shirts (don't ask) with the lace on the cuffs. I was thinking as I wore it, I'd end up ripping them to shreds or accidentally killing myself if I wore it regularly. Totally impractival. But it proves I don't have to do anything, I have servants to do it. How cool I am!!
What is so bad about slacks and polo shirts? I like jeans like everybody else, but after 10-12 hours in front of a keyboard the jeans stretch and look like crap. At least dockers look the same way by the time you are out of the office.
Plus let's be realistic. Until you own the business, somebody else is going to set the rules. It is obvious that if you are going to spend the day laying down ethernet cables and shifting racks and PCs it is completely retarded to force you to wear slacks, but if you know that for the whole day you are going to be playing meetings jockey or sitting at your desk answering emails and phone calls, then the slacks don't hurt.
At my previous job we got rid of the dress code and let managers set it to whatever. Within operations we let the production guys wear shorts, since they were spending the whole day lugging around video equipment. Everybody else was free to wear whatever they pleased as long as:
1. It was clean.
2. It was not torn, ragged, etc.
3. If it had any text printed it was a neutral messsage ("F*ck Microsoft" was not tolerated, but "All Your Base are Belong to US" was ok, etc.)
4. You understood that with reasonable advance notice you will be required to dress up to business casual or full business attire (client visits, business trips, etc.).
When I started interviewing for my new job I noticed that new employers did not really care about wearing a suit for the interview. They told me it was too hot to make me wear a suit plus they trusted me as a professional to know when and how to dress up. My current dress code: geek casual (dockers and golf shirts). The owner could care less as long as you don't walk into the office in flip flops and a mesh top, but he cares about our investors and clients walking into the office and see us looking like total slobs.
And yeah, I play golf too.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
As you can see, it's just an old wives' tale. Let's move along people.
That's it. Keep patting yourself on your back. Kiss up. Make yourself look like a fool. Everyone else appreciates the chuckle.
Me? I was hired for my abilities. Not only do I have the technical background, but I also have the ability to handle all levels of management and clients. I don't bullshit and I've never been caught trying to second-guess the right answer. And that honest accuracy has earned me a very positive reputation.
I've already proven my worth and out-lasted political kiss-ups like you. And part of my "reward" is being freed from the normal dresscode of the "corporate culture" around me.
I wear what I want. Sure - when there's a dog-and-pony show to do, I dress up a bit. But usually its jeans and a tshirt (both in good condition with no controversial language / imagry). No questions asked - not even from upper management who I come in to contact with occasionally. They don't even blink. They're more concerned with what I'm going to be explaining to them, rather than if I look CQ while doing it.
Do I worry about my job? Sure. Nothing is guarenteed. But the day that someone walks in to my job because they "look like management" is the day I need to be out of there anyway. Whoever the sucker is who "gets my job" will be loosing it soon enough because the place is going down in flames (and yes, I've jumped ship at the right time once before to avoid this fate also).
By then, I'll be on my next job proving my worth by what I do. And I'll be doing it comfortably.
"It only took 9 years to clone UNIX via Linux."
I'd rather say 10 years -- 1984, the start of the GNU project to 1994, when the Linux kernel version 1.0 came out. Cloning the OS kernel only took 2 years.
He saw some dirty arabs and fired. Too bad it was just some friendly kurds, BBC reporters and his fellow cowboys.
"player 4 hit player 1 with 0 stroms"
"Our stock price is in the basement! What do we do?" "Let's all change our clothes! That'll fix everything."
Any company whose management utters such a non-sequitor is in serious trouble. That makes as much sense as saying "because of the dot com bust, all employess must now shave their pubic hair weekly," or "because of the dot com bust, all employess must now whistle "Yankee Doodle" while walking backwards through the door when entering the office." It simply doesn't follow.
If the corporate reasoning is that flawed, I'd suggest you start looking for a new position before natural selection takes its toll on this company...
So tell 'em that if they want you to be a fashion model in addition to your other duties, you want a raise and an expenses allowance.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
NB: joke... I keep it in a ponytail, outside the comfort & security of my own home...
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
Why the hell it must wear the undesirable suit and take an old cell phone?
It should look like this
Is freedom, relative ease of migration for UNIX LOB apps from legacy systems, and the flexibility of the open source development model.
Let's face it, very little of your cost is in the upfront licensing costs. A Lot More is in the development of business tools etc. The more reusable code that exists, the better. The better application stacks that exist, the better, the better environments for server software development, the better.
But Linux is not yet the most scalable operating system in the world (probably Unicos/MK is). But it is getting better.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Linux has set back the state of computing by inventing nothing new and reimplementing everything wrong. Witness the unstable under load VM that it's had for years and the lose-date-on-crash ext2fs that is prompting all those new filesystems to be written (and which will take years to debug). We need to let people know they have a choice in free operating systems. They can run FreeBSD, which is already stable and performs better under load than linux.
Absent an expensive media blitz, it takes the mainstream media a while to catch up. Sure, the fact that the "suits" are trying out Linux is yesterday's news. This kind of article indicates that Linux has reached the next stage. It's here to stay, and there's nothing Microsoft or anyone else can do to keep it out of the mainstream.
I hope that's not true... in most cases creative types are hard to manage. Then again, what good does it do to even TRY to micromanage someone like that? Creative problem solvers don't need it. As my boss told me, "I want to be able to point you at a problem and have it fixed. I don't want to have to tell you how to do it, and I don't want you asking for direction 10 times a day. At that point I could do it myself. I'll step in if I think you're off on a tangent, though". Which works well for both of us. And yeah, we have a dress code (not supposed to wear jeans unless it's Friday, etc) but it's not enforced. You would really have to push it to get called on a dress code violation.
I agree... if the marketing droids in my company tried something like that, and my boss didn't try to stand up to them, I'd see more problems ahead than dry-cleaning bills. Companies do stupid shit like this when they're so desperate for ideas that when a marketing droid spews out some crap like this at a meeting it actually gets implemented. Not good.
nuff said
It's not entirely necessary for someone thoroughly familiar with technology to have a scraggly beard, pony-tail, and D&D tshirt.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
The casual mention of MS's booth at LWE really pleased me. Yeah, just another company making Linux credible to the business types. No mention of any MS FUD or speculation on their possible ulterior motives. Just the bald fact: they were there, lending credibility. Somehow, I doubt that's the spin MS wanted (though I'm sure they were aware it was a possibility).
The rest of the article was pretty mundane, but no worse than I'd expect from the mainstream press (as opposed to industry press). Yeah, we've had suits at the shows for years, but the reputation of a system for "freaks and geeks" is still alive. Yeah, they got a few details wrong, but that's the press for ya. But the oh-so casual mention of MS I liked.
I almost always wear a shirt and proper trousers when I go out - does that affect my ability to earn a living writing php and mysql based applications, doing *nix admin, and general consultancy work?
If you are of that nature, best look for a government job, a National Lab or academia. That is what I did.
"player 4 hit player 1 with 0 stroms"
> How do you know a /.er was 15th on Mars?
There is a flagpole with a sign reading "First Post"
You really shouldn't be eating Doritos in the server room.
-- Ken Kinder ken@_nospam_kenkinder.com http://kenkinder.com/
Some software is created just for fun. Other software is created to insure that you have control of your computer. Don't confuse "commercialism" with the evil practices of current commercial software vendors. They are stupid and will be replaced. Much software created just for fun is of great use to all of us becuse it was licensed as free. Go visit clarity to learn what why and how.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Baby steps people.
I agree completely, I work for a fortune500 company as a windows system admin, and we are encouraged to make our appearence as pleasent as possible. Appearence of the employees reflects the company, and a repectable clean cut look can be the difference between making a big expensive deal or not!
i hope the face of linux is changing. because right now it resembles gerald, the guy who was briefly in my physics program. The breast pocket of his XXL t-shirt (think Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons) was always stretched down a foot, because he kept a 20oz bottle of mountain dew there. What an uberdork. He lasted 2 semesters before transferring to Comp Sci.
In my experience, you always have to watch out for the best dressed people at companies. They're usually dressed that way in order to compensate for their lack of anything else valuable to offer the company, but it's hard to get rid of someone who *looks* more professional that the people doing the actual work.
When those edicts come down i just get a business case from my manager.
I need to wear durable clothing because of the sharp edges servers have, along with the lifting and crawling around on the floor, etc... I hate having $40 -$50 pants ripped up with no reimbursement.
For work clothes my wife just shops at the outlet for whatever brand khaki's are on sale and generic polo shirts. and for footwear I find a nice pair of Red Wing boots shined once a month are servicable for a year. After all its work, not a fashion show for me.
Who run Barter Town?