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Jabber Could Get An IETF Working Group
21mhz writes: "There is a story on CNET news that provides an analysis of what is happening with
SIP/SIMPLE, AOL protocols and Jabber/XMPP in the IETF. It says that Jabber is close to securing a dedicated IETF working group, in spite of political struggle and corporate maneuvering."
Nice
to the f1r5t p05t
n1g6azz
where mah penis birdz at!?!?!
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I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
Here's to all the hard-working trolls that keep digitalteenz and goatse running. Just because the office is closed doesn't mean we're not out there and doing what we do best. Keep on trucking, brothers.
Jabber Central (more pratical information on jabber)
Jabber Powered (an initiative to create products based on Jabber)
Jabber Studio (the development hub of the Jabber community)
Old Jabber documentation
Jabber FAQ
A nice overview of Jabber
Jogger (a jabber based weblog)
Jabber Python module
Unofficial Jabber user guide
Programming Perl(an O'Reilly book)
..i still don't really know what jabber is and the jabber website couldn't tell me this either in simple words.
I tried some Jabber client some months ago but couldn't really do anything with it.
Could anyone of you guys be nice and explain what it is? (perhaps compared to widely known things like irc, icq, napster...)
THANK YOU!
For those of you who want to try out jabber, psi is a great crossplatform client, with support for windows, linux and mac OSX. I've been using it for some time, and with the msn, icq/aim, etc transports, there isn't really any reason to use anything else.
I really do hope the jabber folks are able to make jabber a standard.
Jabber is an open protocol for instant messaging, based on XML. It allows for communication similar to current aim, icq and msn messenger protocols/programs. However, it is able to surpass them based on the openness of the protocol (lots of non-braindead clients for many platforms), features such as ssl encryption on messages (if client and server support it) and through use of transports which allow users of a jabber network to openly interface with clients on other networks (msn messenger, icq, aim, etc).
The ability to log on with only one username/pass and have all contacts on all of your networks be contacted through a consistant interface alone is worth trying jabber out. I recommend psi as a good starting client, however you can find many other clients on jabbercentral .
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Jabber, fantastic technology that it is, really should be made standard. For too long, Instant Messaging has been in corporate pockets and completely useless.
The IETF should give Jabber recognition as the industry standard, and then it is up to the other software manufacturers to comply to the Jabber standard or fall behind.
Now, I would never really say this, but... "w00t w00t!". Okay, I'll come quietly...
catch (HumourFailureException e) { e.user.send("You, sir, are a humourless idiot."); }
Sometimes a little conformity isn't all that bad.
Jabber is not only the product of one company but the collective effort of many Open Source developers and companies: Jabber servers are available for linux and , and windows.
Clients are available for any platform.
You can choose your preferred server or client and they will work with each other!!
My experiences with IETF and it's working groups are not just positive. The organisation seems to be very slow moving, full of politics - and also, full of clever minds. It is ofcourse good to get official recognition and other good things that can come out of it, but one of the obvious minuses I see is: it s ..l ...o ...w .e..s. d...o...w...n . . .t..h..e d..e...v...e..l..o..p...m..e...n.....?
See here. Admittedly a pleasant troll but, a rose by any other name....
Unlike propietary networks like icq or msn, jabber is a distributed network of multiple jabber servers pretty much like email. Users have a profile hosted by a server and are identified as user@jabberhost in a similar way to email. This is both its strength (anyone can set up a server) and its weakness (you need someone to host a server). Endusers without the ability to run servers themselves and without a provider offering a jabber server have to rely on one of the public jabber servers. Unlike with the big messaging networks, however, there are no central servers where you can permanently host your jabber profile. There are plenty of public testing servers but these may go offline at any time.
Because of this, many people download a jabber client, figure out that they need a server and are told by the jabber faq that they might try this or that server without any guarantees that it will still work next week. Not very convincing.
For people to adopt jabber as an alternative to current propietary messaging clients, a reliable, available server that will host profiles for free is needed. As long as servers are lacking, jabber will remain an interesting technology that is mostly used in corporate intranets.
If a good public server was available, I would have been running jabber years ago.
Jilles
I was at the Jabber BOF and it was quite interesting.
One thing is that jabber was presented as a solution not for instant messaging (IM) or presence protocol (PP) but as a solution for asynchronous transfer of XML. Another BOF, XML Conf, was suggesting there was a requirement for this sort of stuff to provision routers and such.
Most people seemed to feel that Jabber had major issues from a security and privacy point of view for doing IMPP. Remember that the IETF did look at jabber a few years ago for doing IMPP and it was rejected. Since then, many protocols have been proposed. IM can send message in "page mode" where you are just sending a one time message or it can set up a whole session between the clients for cases where you are going to transfer many message back and forth. This second mode is called session mode. Right now the SIMPLE group more or less has a good proposal for page mode and setting up sessions but is debating how to transfer messages in session mode.
I believe that the following companies have said they will support SIMPLE: Microsoft, Yahoo, Lotus, etc. Unlike what the CNET article said, I was told that AOL filed documents with the FCC saying they would do SIMPLE.
If there is a IETF WG on jabber, which I believe might happen, the interesting thing will be to read what that groups chatter is to do - I bet it won't say that it is gong to developed a complete IMPP solution.
On a side note about how this effects open source development, I work with the vovida.org project which develops voice over IP and messaging open source software. We have talked to the jabber.org and jabber.com multiple times. It's always been difficult to figure out how this all fits together from an open source point of view. You see, jabber.com has patents on stuff you need to implement jabber. At the Jabber BOF at IETF I specifically asked them if they would make this IPR available in a way that worked for open source people. They answered that people had implements this stuff and they weren't suing them. This is like yah, DUH, of course when we are trying to get people addicted to the drug we don't sue them. They have NEVER made any commitment to allow this IPR to be used in open source products. They are a desperate company looking for a way to make a business model out of jabber. If you think jabber is the best for open source - give that some careful thought.
Cullen
I would say that JXTA is alos close to securing its own working group fo standards inclusion..
The major difference between Jabber and JXTA is that Jabber runs like a standard IM in that there is a centralized server..
JXTa however does not use any central server.. its straight P2p decentralized..
INfo:
http://www.jabber.org
http://www.jxta.org
Now guess which one is imune from DMCA legal attacks? JXTA! Jabber deployment would stil get your compnay in hot water because they would go after the company that hosts the central server..
Don't Tread on OpenSource
hey, I know this is totally off topic, but I'm trying to host some filespace for a webserver and my university has a block on all request to a server from outside the LAN (despite our having "real" 130 ip addresses this year). If you're on the lan, the server works like it should, but once you're outside, it can't be found. Can anyone give me a few pointers as to how I can circumvent this?
I have some ideas for an experimental groupware system that I would like to play with. One problem that I was anticipating was to sync-up system users when they are online.
I had thought of requiring people to set up a separate email account (finally, a use for those "get 5 POP accounts" ISPs) that would be used to distribute temporary dial-up IP numbers, etc.
Looking at Jabber, using a few public Japper servers looks like a good alternative for syncing-up users when they come online.
The question: has anyone else used public Jabber servers for something similar? (i.e., use the protocol and free servers for new uses)
-Mark
I sure hope someone is ready with a Jabber plugin for Trillian when version 1.0 comes out. (which will allow plug-ins.....incidentally, their beta version of 1.0 -- which is under tight wraps but it leaked so it's not hard to find -- has a Slashdot plugin, which is kind of cool)
Trillian is in my opinion a much better way to have interoperability with the Yahoo, MSN, ICQ and AOL, than by using Jabber (trillian's interoperability is client side, jabber's is server side). Trillian works great and doesn't add an extra, unnecessary layer to communication with the non-Jabber people.
Still, I'd like to use Jabber as my "main" account on Trillian, if only it supported it. That would be the best of both worlds. Trillian's client is by far the best I have seen.
BTW, I'm told that version 1.0 will also run on linux and OSX.
How stupid. You typed Jabber into Google and copied and pasted most of the first 20 links. In EXACT SAME ORDER too, with the exception of that oreilly link... LOL.
Good damn thing you posted as AC, because if I ever saw your name on a resume I'd put it into the "hopelessly without a clue" pile.
Please close your mouth to breathe.
I hate these groups when many people talk their opinions about software. It always end up in slowing down the development. How hard can it be? Just install microsoft messenger and be happy. It has all those features you would need, except those that lame-ass ICQ patented.
The fact that there are so many clients, none of which is polished, is jabber's biggest weakness.
All the jabber clients are shamed by trillian, in my opinion. As I said in another post, someone needs to make a Jabber plugin for Trillian 1.0, I think that would do a lot to get people in the real world using Jabber. (assuming that's what we want....it is, isn't it?)
The fact that there are so many clients, none of which is polished, is jabber's biggest weakness.
Yes, Jabber suffers SourceForge Syndrome but two clients in particular stand out: Gabber and my personal favourite, Psi. Both are highly polished and robust clients. Psi's even multiplatform.
Trillian is a good idea done the wrong way. Why put all that code in one application which needs to be constantly updated as the big two (especially AOL) shift their protocol around and block non-sanctioned servers? It's the wrong approach. The smaller Jabber servers don't get blocked since they're well below AOL's radar and the end user gets a much smaller application with far less code to worry about keeping updated.
Nothing to see on that page you linked, everyone go home.
Well, in part it means programs like Trillian would no longer be needed (sort of) because because any messenger that was compliant with the standard would be able to communicate with any other messenger. The number of messenger clients to choose from would be limitless. People would make as many messengers as people make skins for WinAmp. Some would be really good and popular, others would basically suck. The problem with this will likely be that large companies who hate competition (I wont mention names) will try to squash out the standard by creating their own non-standard standard and then patching their Operating System so the real industry standard is incompatible.
Gaim seems to support all the protocols you mention. The user interface could do with a little extra polishing, but it is good fun to be able to use all the protocols at the same time.
I have some ideas for an experimental groupware system that I would like to play with. One problem that I was anticipating was to sync-up system users when they are online.
I'm not sure I entirely get your point here -- by "sync-up" do you mean giving late-comers the opportunity to catch up on messages that went before?
If so you might want a back-end designed for such a purpose, something like an asynchronous conferencing system like CoSy. That won't fit the bill as-is, but a while back I did some work on separating out the user and storage interface pieces (some documentation/code on that here. Lately I've been thinking that wrapping it all into a Jabber server (with extensions) makes more sense.
OTOH maybe I missed your point.
-- Alastair
I just re-read my own post and it was unclear.
The system that I have been thinking about is peer-to-peer and aimed at very small working groups so each client could maintain a socket connection with all other clients in the group.
Since many people have temporary IP addresses (e.g., dialup access), there has to be a way to "sync-up", that is, let other people online know your temporary IP address.
On Windows, I have played with groupware products like Groove, but I was thinking of something tailored to very small work groups.
-Mark
I had some offline conversations with Joe Hildebrand, Tony, and Peter and they have put together some strong statements about IPR that show my previous worries about IPR and jabber are not an issue. Attached below are some very clear statements of their position.I am very happy they are taking this position on patents.
Cullen Jennings
Hi. I am the Vice President of Open Standards & Alliances for Jabber, Inc..
In response to your message below and on behalf of the company, I will state
that Jabber, Inc. neither has, nor claims any patent rights with respect to
the XMPP protocol. Further, Jabber Inc. has no intent to claim any
intellectual property rights with respect to the protocol that would limit
in any way its free and open use. I hope this addresses your concerns. If
you have any additional questions or issues, please feel free to contact me
directly.
Sincerely,
Tony
Tony Bamonti
As Executive Director of the Jabber Software Foundation (JSF), I can state
categorically that the JSF does not now hold any patents, that it has not
applied for any patents, and that it never will apply for any patents. The
JSF is a standards organization founded to manage the Jabber protocol. As
soon as our new Board is installed (our annual meeting is being held one
hour from now), we will finalize our IPR policy and include a statement
about the fact that the JSF does not assert any IPR.
Peter
--
Peter Saint-Andre