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New Small Form Factor PC Reviewed
Beau Mundt writes "You guys haven't touched on the small form factor PCs in a while, thought you
would be interested in this
review of a Lex System SFF PC. Its arguably the tiniest PC around and could
be used for many cool things like a Linux gateway, a wireless workstation, or
just a silent small foot print system. The other neat thing is the reviewer
stuffs a P3 1.26 and a Radeon 7500 into the system. Perfect for bringing to LANs!"
this definitely has potential in the right place, the right place IMO being a wiring cupboard or somewhere else where space is at a real premium. I wouldn't use it as a standard desktop, purely because if you have space for a monitor you have space for a slightly larger unit (I'd hope).
I wouldn't say the savings of a few inches are enough to make me use a laptop hard drive and one of those crappy 'blade' (or whatever) CD roms that you can't just swap out/upgrade/yada yada.
But then again, I like my PC's to have lots of growth space inside, YMMV.
In the example of a Linux gateway or wireless workstation, there is a better solution. Buy a 1U rack mount case (they can be had for under $150 with a 300w power supply). They accept standard ATX motherboards and many have removable drives.
With this method, you can use any off-the-shelf parts to repair the system.
This is the method I use for a webserver and Linux firewall. I have both mounted (among other things) in a old telecom cabinet. Works like a charm.
it does not seem like a review at all. Instead, it is a full load of marketing words without any neutral statements. No data to base decisions on. I have seen more neutral marketing brochures.
Why isn't this used more often? It would be the first step to the ultimate silent pc. Is there any reason why an external power supply doesn't make sense for all desktops? I realize that many of them use the fans for heat exhaust, but with a well-placed rear fan, this problem is negated.
Is that a real poncho? I mean, is that a Mexican poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
I like the Shuttle boxes, because you can stuff standard parts in them, standard drives and the likes.
This however, has too many limitations to be of use to me. Sure, you can attach a lot of USB peripherals (Is it USB 2? I didn't see that in the review), but if you want a PC small enough to lug around, then you don't want to lug three other boxes (all possibly with their own PSUs!).
Where is this going? Mobile computing is best served with a laptop, IMHO. The costs for good performance are high, enough so to put off LAN partiers on a budget.
These boxes fill that niche, but I think that this one in particular is crippled too much by the laptop hard drive, slimline CD, less expansion, etc.
If you want an appliance at home, this is no good either. Server? At the moment the max 2.5" HDD is 60 Gigs, I think. and if the machine breaks, you can't just buy another PSU, for example, and slot it in the box - it's all non-standard. Buy a proper server and shove it in a closet, or quieten it down with custom fans and heatsinks.
Other appliances? There are cheaper custom-built mp3 streamers, DVD-recording video recorders, and so on available.
This thing is a no-no, in my opinion.
Note to ACs: I won't mod you up, even if you are being funny or insightful. So take a chance! It's not real life!
Those cases have been around a while. I built quite a few systems with them when working for a small-time pc manufacturer 6-7 years ago. Guts may have changed somewhat, but the layout is identical. Hopefully they don't overheat as much as they used to.
Shuttle SS40
Gigabyte G-MAX Series
The Good: CD-Rom Drive
The Bad: Price ($200 USD)
...but it's taken a while for small boxies to make a return. One of my favourites (an obsession, even) are my Quadra 605s. Only marginally larger than the Lex reviewed, and about 8 years older.
One big bonus of the SFF pizzaboxes is the incredible ease of -getting- to components. All placed on one layer, there's no tangling of cables, or need to remove one major component to reach the others.
A pretty decent structure for a box that doesn't need to be constantly expanded/changed.
a grrl & her server
I haven't seen one yet. So, I might be wrong and they might already be readily available.
Here's the thing, I have a nice Sony WEGA Trinitron TV in the living room. I am also wiring the whole house for CAT-5. My plans include having a central "Media Server" to house all my music files.
Next to the TV will sit a PC with a connection to the TV, the stereo and the home network. I like the idea of a small form-factor system, partly due to the low-cost associated with some of these designs. I would really like to see one with a built-in S-video port.
-.-
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Research "As mentioned above, the Lex Thin-800E is the smallest case we have ever looked at." Here is one for the author to look at that is smaller than the one they reviewed: http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/Sumi/Sumi.html
This is what I'm waiting for too - I understood that Shuttle were suppoed to be bringing out an Athlon version of their recent P4 release.
Not that I'm a platform fan as such - I don't mind about the Intel/Athlon wars and I'm not a PC gamer either so the nForce graphics are just nice to have. However, the current Shuttle P4 offering won't run Linux, whereas an nForce-based machine ought to be fine.
At least, so I believe. Anyone know better?
Cheers,
Ian
You said arguably the smallest, and I'm gonna argue.
First things first, the Lex system *is* neat because of the socket 370, but it edges out the Via Eden platform in one dimension by 10mm. Doesn't sound like a lot, unless you're making some really cool custom pc's.
In fact, I've built my own router (running Linux of course) in a 1/10th scale Celica using the VIA. 10mm more in either dimension and it wouldn't have fit. In fact, it looks just like the two projects I just now linked.
The via comes in 500 and 866 mhz flavors, and pulls VERY little power resulting in a low heat motherboard/processor solution. There's so little heat, they don't even put a fan on the processor, which is great when you have your 1/10th scale Celica routing your dsl in your living room where you want to hear other people and/or the tv instead of the computer.
So for those needing those extra mhz, the lex looks like a good solution. But for a Linux gateway/router and a couple other applications, the slower C3's do just fine, but pull less power and have the possibility of going completely fan free (if you can find a fan-free powersupply).
A PC case that has the same form-factor as the rest of my HIFI seperates system. Ideally something that looks indistinguishable from a DVD player, so I can stick it in the rack.
I'm sure that the mobo's etc used in modern desktops could be used to give it a decent spec, my TV would make a adequate Monitor for the sorts of uses I have in mind; games/div-x/MP3 Playing, DIgital image viewing etc.. given a front-pane USB/Firewire and cordless mouse/keyboard etc..
I'm sure there is a market for a case like this, but have never seen one outside of a one-off special made by a decent modder (which I could do, but probably rather badly..)
"Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
"The Lex case ships with an external power supply which allows the PC to be as small as it is, while also cutting out a major noise factor in the PC."
Isn't this kind of cheating. I've got a PC the size of a cable. It's just got this external power supply and mother board and cdrom and floppy....
And it's not like the case was smaller than say, a laptop. I don't get what's the big deal. If I want small, I'd go with a laptop. If I want a desktop, I want it big enough to add stuff, and not to have extra parts like a power supply to drag around.
better still, build the psu into ups, always bugs me that the ups sits there converting it's output to AC and conditioning it, when it then gets turned straight back into low volts DC at the PSU at the other end of the power cord. Most modern home/office peripherals, and with a TFT even the monitor, also want DC.
:-)
of course you don't want a combined ups/psu for carrying to a lan party with cff case - weight wise they aint easily portable
With the 533MHz CPU, it needs no CPU fan, and is still plenty zippy for all of your favorite gateway tasks--we use them for web caching, DHCP, DNS caching, masquerading, NATting, routing micro-uber-boxes. Even with all of those services running, these little boxes will push a T1 line chock full of goodness with plenty of power to spare. We'd like it to be even smaller, of course, but I don't think the Lex box in question is the right way for us because we don't want a big hot Intel CPU in there.
We're popping an Intel dual NIC into the PCI slot for the firewall enhanced version (that's three NICs total), giving a nice Internal/DMZ/External separation in a very nice little low-power package.
Anyway, I'm enjoying the relative quiet of these boxes so much, that I'm considering getting an 800MHz one for my desktop machine. All of my real work goes on in the machine closet anyway, so I might as well have some peace, quiet, and an easily moveable machine out here in the civilized part of the office.
Just for interest's sake, I took a look at the site. It says that the dimensions of this thing are 6.2cm x 27.2 cm x 25.2 cm.
Now, if you look at the Cappuccino TX-3, you see that it has dimensions 5.63 cm x 14.38 cm x 15 cm. That seems quite a bit smaller to me. So, I would find the claim that this is the tiniest PC around arguable indeed.
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
Ok, I've been looking for a place that actually sells this case [the second from the bottom on page one] LIKE crazy (for MAMEing in front of a TV... two USB ports in the front is great!)
Where, oh where, can I find this case? I've sorta been interested in the DIGN case but there are no USB ports in the front and it's insanely expensive.... so anyone know where I can get the Cupid 2677 with USB?
I've taken an interest in small PCs recently... and I'm sad to say this one again seems to pander to someone else's wish list. I'd like a small form factor PC to accepts a couple of standard size IDE H/Ds and CD/CRRW. I don't need video or a fast processor - should have Ethernet (for connectivity) and USB/serial/parallel (for peripherals) and run silently - i.e. without a fan.
I'd give it wireless and broadband and a printer and voila, desktop priced resources available to my laptop. Am I the only one looking for this?
The best thing I noted was the power jack marked "12VDC". The native DC power feature and small size make this a cool platform for mobile MP3/OGG player, navigation system, sound processor, etc.
-This sig intentionally left blank
Get a laptop and a USB mouse for aiming, and frag away.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
That's the beast I have in mind. Didn't know it had a model number yet.
The reason I'm not interested in the current Athlon one is the lack of an AGP slot and the non-support of ATA-133. One of my primary uses will be to bung in a DVD recorder and use it as a video production machine, so a fast drive is important to me.
Cheers,
Ian
That looks like it is still larger than (and not nearly as cool looking as) my good ol' SparcClassic case. For small PCs, nothing can beat the size and shape of the Classic in my opinion...
Posted from the wireless couch.
VIA PLE133 Chipset, it's just an appliance. Buy it, show it off to your friends, get stuck with it.
So you really can't imagine a use for this? You don't think that it would be good for a firewall, mail server, web server, FTP server, file server, print server, fax server, NAT box, or some combination thereof?
Not every computer has to be used for first-person shooter games and attempts at setting SETI records.
They used a PCMCIA memory card for both permemant storage and RAM. Their cases were designed to allow heated air to escape out the top drawing cooler air form the bottom thus using natural conduction to do the work of the fan. I think they used a cyrix processor.
I used the CE boxes for admin staff that only used office apps (Word and Excell) from a Metaframe server. The Linux boxes were from people who needed more than casual access to the web (graphics over metaframe is not a great idea).
Anyway, I have been trying to remember the name of the companies I bought from while I have been typing this, but I can't. I have changed jobs and really had not thought about them for a long time. I could check my records when I get home if anybody really cares ( and nobody has replied with it by then.) I am pretty sure that WYSE makes them too.
___ I don't respond to Anonymous Cowards, and I Never Mod them UP.
1.) External means you can put it on the floor. So it's more quiet, simply because it's further away. Remember that there is no reason to put a small PC on the floor instead of putting it on your desk where it should be.
2.) You have a problem with a quiet PC: You need a lot of air to cool it. A lot of air is needed to cool the PSU itself. If you put the PSU outside of the box, you get the chance to cool both parts passivly. (The PSU-cube has 5 sides to spread the heat when outside, but only one if placed inside the box).
Bye egghat.
-- "As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
> Its arguably the tiniest PC around ...for the smallest form factor. I have a PC on my desk which is 15cm x 15cm x 4.5cm. (About the footprint of a CD case, but taller.) They're readily available under a host of different names. See www.paysan.co.uk for one supplier.
This can at least save me an inverter if I want to put a PC in a car - just some DC/DC transformer would do. That's a BIG save in noise, heat and energy...
But is it the most powerful destructive force in the two universes?
sic transit gloria mundi
First, it has to support dual monitors, for the Xray imaging app that we use.
It has to be able to run Windows, or be able to get to a citrix terminal server.
It has to support wheel mice within the ICA connections
It cannot have any fan, because of dust
Does anyone know of such a machine?
The other neat thing is the reviewer stuffs a P3 1.26 and a Radeon 7500 into the system. Perfect for bringing to LANs!"
:)
Also perfect for setting off smoke alarms!
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
think somewhere between the size of the average VCR and the average DVD player.
i saw some of these @ quake con, and to tell the truth, i wouldn't mind one of these at all. i came this close to winning one there, and it would have made an excellent TV for my dorm room (with a cheap video capture card ($25)) and divx box.
it'd probably be smaller if some fucker decided that it was ok to put the power supply on the OUTSIDE of the box. if they can do it for laptops, why not regular boxes? aggggh...
moox. for a new generation.
The problem, as I see it, is that a combination of needing to be backwards-compatible, and failing to reevaluate gestalt hardware design, has left us with boxes that don't look fundamentally different on the inside than they did 15 years ago.
Here's what I envision: a physical architecture in which every component is an enclosed, rectilinear module which snaps in and out as easily as a PCMCIA card. No need to open up the case to do an upgrade. No need to fuss with screws and fitting cards into slots. I mean, honestly, screws? We can do better than this, folks!
I think this approach would work. I mean, is there any good reason why cards have to slot in perpendicular to the motherboard? Through the magic of electricity and a miraculous substance called copper, we could easily redirect the power and data paths to component bays as described above.
Hardware should be modular, and that implies loose coupling. All that's really necessary is to connect the components with the appropriate sort of conductive material. That's a really loose constraint, and yet every computer that comes off the line has the same pain-in-the-ass structure to it.
Well?
My deviantArt site
ThinkGeek has a tiny little thing, no bigger footprint than the CD/DVD drive. Still holds a P3 1.2, 30Gb HD, 512Mb RAM http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/computing/5a98.shtm l
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
To make a decent gateway out of such a box, one needs TWO ethernet ports. There is a slot there, but it would be nicer if it was integrated. So not only do I need to add the slim CDROM drive cost, but also the extra NIC card cost (which is not all that much, but now there is no more slot available).
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Er, a good modular crimping tool (i.e. Greenlee) will set you back US$50 alone, as will a 110/66 block punch-down tool (for the headend). A spare blade for the punch (they usually include a 110 or 1 66 but not both, and Murphy says they'll come with a 66 when you want a 110), is around US$15.
When I installed faceplates and connectors (Cat5, RJ14, 2xRG6/U), it came to about $20 a plate -- I installed 8. Headend stuff was about $20 for 110 blocks, and modular panels (each, not total). Figure $75 for Leviton wall-mount enclosures. I went through 2000 feet of Cat5e ($200) and RG6/U ($200) cable.
Don't get discouraged, but do realize that you should probably look at US$1000 to do things on the cheap (and that does not include the cost of a router/firewall, satellite multiswitch, RF-amps, etc.)
You could've hired me.
Yeah, I agree wholehartedly with your concern. I once purchased a generic "book PC" because I thought it was perfect for my crowded desk.
But the damned thing was so loud that I couldn't stand it . Many "white box" generic PC's are awful in this regard.
I later bought some HP e-PC's which turned out to be a lot quieter; in part because HP moved the power supply outside to a power brick.
This Lex Thin-800E PC also uses an external power supply. Good. The CPU fan should be reasonably quiet under normal circumstances, provided they used a good quality (i.e., not the cheapest) fan.
BTW, The PCI riser is a nice touch. The HP e-PC does not have one.
Finally I find the proper response to all this down the list. Really now, if you want a mini-pc this is the best way to go. Shuttle put enough of these out that the parts needn't be considered completely proprietary. With standard 3.5" drive bays you can put a real hard drive in there as well. Sucker has onboard EVERYTHING too. You can check out more at Tom's http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/02q3/020815/ind ex.html
Ability do in full size PCI and AGP cards without risers too. And if you want to keep it on the cheap you can even throw a 1.7Ghz Celery processor in there and you can quit your bitchin about cost. Don't forget how quiet it is too due to the heatpipe used on the CPU.
It's not so small.. (IMHO)
Remember the Acorn RiscPC? The most expandable case design ever.
Start with a pizzabox with 1 CD drive 1 floppy drive. Then if you need more room, just add slices until you have behemoth server case!
Would this be possible? Of course, you would new motherboard standard, with riser plates for PCI.
Just a thouhgt. (Oh and the RiscPC was quiet, no fans whatsoever needed!)
CowboyNeal used to post stuff, and now he's back. This is possibly the best move Slashdot has ever made. Drop him from the stupid polls and let him show his overall coolness once again.
Beware, Nugget is watching... See?