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Undersea Deposits of Frozen Methane Found
geoswan writes "The CBC is running a story about large deposits of
Frozen methane off the
coast of Vancouver Island .
The deposits may be 850 meters deep. The story doesn't say how the methane came to be a
solid. Pressure? The story doesn't address what technology could be used to mine these deposits,
if the decision is made to develop these resources. The CBC showed pictures taken of the methane
hydrate. Sure enough, it looked like a big snowbank. It is an environmentally sensitive area. So, how about it, should it be exploited?"
Who owns the area where the deposit is? Is it owned by Canada, or is it in International waters? And how will they decide who gets to "exploit" if they decide to?
I saw this on tv; there's butt-loads of solid methane on the sea floor in the Bermuda Triangle area. One theory of the vanishing planes is that the gas bubbles up to the surface and creates a big area of methane gas above the surface. The planes flew into the gas, and their engines ignited the gas, blowing them up. Possibly the same scenario with vanishing boats. I forget how the layer of solid methane got there, but apparently this is common in many places around the world.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
There's more of this stuff in the North Sea -- I've seen a cool film clip where a scientist takes a chunk of it and sets it on fire!
...by ENORMOUS, I mean quantities larger than gets released in decades of industrial/agricultural activity. Vast vast vast amounts.
However, the last time I heard of these deposits, some folks were worried that mining them would destabilise the mass, causing an uncontrolled release of ENORMOUS quantities of methane. Which would mean bad things for the environment, what with methane being a greenhouse gas, and all.
Someone claimed to have found a similar phenomenon off the coast of Florida, around where the fabled "Bermuda Triangle" was supposed to be. Theory went: every now and then, seismic activity would crack the methane crystal, releasing some methane gas in the process. This now-liberated methane bubble would rise to the surface, and everything was cool if its path toward the atmosphere was free of obstacles like boats or planes... however, on the off-chance that a ship might be passing right by where the methane was surfacing, that ship would become unable to maintain buoyancy--as it now rested on a bubble of gas instead of a blanket of seawater--and would go down. Same thing for the planes: if the methane bubble, which has become more of a loose cloud now that it's free of the ocean, happens to be in the path of an airplane, that plane will dramatically lose almost all lift from its wings (since they're made to be working lift from normal air, which is much heavier than methane), and it, too, hits the sea. Weird.
"Has frozen methane ever been released before? 55 million years ago, 20% of the world's frozen methane reserves melted. This sparked cataclysmic changes in the atmosphere: global temperatures rose by 13 degrees Fahrenheit, melting the ice cps and forcing many species to extinction. 80% of all deep-sea creatures became extinct, and there were severe consequences for land animals. If vast amounts of methane were released, the highly explosive gas would be ignited by lightning, scorching huge area in a fiery hell-on-earth."
Now, do you want them to touch it? :))
This is a SF novel from 1994 which covers exactly this scenario. The long-term effects of global warming include the melting of the ice caps, as we know, but this book is about the shorter-term effects. An overall rise in the sea temperature, due to a huge release of clathrate methane, enlarges the hurricane-spawing areas of the ocean (areas above 27C). The result is larger and larger hurricanes, until, well, you can guess the rest from the title.
Reviews: here and here.
Ouch. Do you still want to touch those deposits?
(this is not a
I used to work as a fi$herman on large trawlers in Ala$ka and I'll tell you first hand that anything that wasn't the fi$h we wanted was immediately thrown overboard, with rare exception- fi$h is where the money is. It's hard for me to believe that a deckhand would actually pay attention to something that must have resembled a rock or piece of ice, but then again I bet boats have been pulling this stuff up for a very long time and it went ignored just for that reason.
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
I challenge you to find ANY study that "all the academics and industries can agree with." Doesn't have to be earth-shattering or anything. Just one. In a real (printed) journal. Go on, we'll wait...
Yeah, right.
People should concentrate on using solar power, wind energy,
Solar = destroy you planet faster... The process for making silicon solar cells is very very VERY nasty and pollutes worse than dumping raw gasoline directly into a lake (Which by the way 1 gallon of gasoline will pollute 1,000,000 gallons of water to undrinkable levels) as for wind power, you need to get the idiots and morons who sit on boards of light and power, and city/county/state governments to pull their heads out of their butts long enough so that you dont have to spend a year fighting to get a tower erected to put your windmill up and THEN spend another year getting permission to tie into the electrical grid so that the excess power you create goes to benefit mankind.
until people start voting in smart politicians we will be doomed that way.... and I have never EVER met a politican that wasn't as dumb as a stump, but though he was a genius...
The only other resourse is to do gurella alternative power... you just do it and hook up without permission or permits... something that is happening quite alot lately... just pick up a copy of home power magazine.. or look at their website here
and you can make your own high efficiency wind power generation systems from crap and junk from here
but the absolute best thing to do is to figure out how to reduce consumption.. over-insulate your home.. change all lighting to compact flouresent... buy all appliances that are energy star compliant and at the very top of the efficiency graph. (Note: instead of spending $45,000.00 onm your beloved yukon that get's 4-12 miles per gallon... buy an aztek WITHOUT 4wd that get's on average 25-27 Miles per gallon if you need big for carrying things... or get a honda insight for the highest fuel efficiency.)
I agree, america = spend BIG and screw everyone else.. I live here.. I watch the masses of idiots who refuse to obey the speed limits and further reduce the MPG of their gas guzzlers, still throw trash out the windows and leave their homes with every light in the house on. It wont change until it's required, or energy gest's so expensive that it forces people to change... as they will not change willingly it must be forced.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
There's been a series of stories about oil wells refilling themselves lately. One of the ideas is that our current source of oil is from methane that was trapped beneath the Earth's surface at the big bang, and from fosilized animals. This story could actually be further evidence of that idea.
t ml h tml 6 8/202-8329969-5193459 o p.html
An alternate theory is that their is a biomass layer bacteria below the surface of the Earth that is producing methane. That methane is then changed into oil by heat, preasure, and the filtration to the surface of the. Haven't you noticed that most oil well are dug where there is a large amount of sandstone and other porous rock?
<Useful links>
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.07/gold_pr.h
http://people.cornell.edu/pages/tg21/recharging/
http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Energy.html
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/tg21/origins.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/03879854
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/margins/seeps_worksh
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
times more than the world's conventional natural gas preserves.
Fascinating article from the US
DOE says we've known about this stuff for a century: Methane hydrates
form in generally two types of geologic settings: (1) on land in permafrost
regions where cold temperatures persist in shallow sediments, and (2) beneath
the ocean floor at water depths greater than about 500 meters where high
pressures dominate. The hydrate deposits themselves may be several hundred
meters thick.
Methane is hydrophyllic under certain pressure and temperature regimes. It can easily form a slushy substance known as methane hydrates. These are not only a resource, but commonly a production problem in deepwater (5000') offshore environments where flowing temperatures are low. They can form in lines and plug things up. I am doing an undergrad project on these and I have friends doing grad work on them as well. It's neat stuff, and the vast quantities mean a tremendous future for good ole clean burning natural gas. Wanna see something really amazing? Check out the methane resources beleived to be associated with geothermal brines.
I saw a report on the global warming flash points within earth. Basically the idea traced the carbon output of rainforests. Geologically global warming was gradual but intensived at certain time periods. These time periods were centered around forest fires in the rain forest areas. The general map is this. Rain forests can only act as a carbon sink for so much carbon before the dead material created by the forest begins to add to carbon output instead of the plants breath cycle decreasing it. In natural historic global warming (without man made intervention) the increase of life on earth slowly moved carbon distribtion until the atmosphere warmed this slow warm hyper excelerated in the last phases. This caused quick changes in temperature followed by a dramatic cold period. The key was the current rain forest model. It appears rain forests hold more carbon than predicted. In tracing this carbon it was found that dead organic material was carried by the rivers and decayed producing methane. But instead of the gas being released in the atmosphere this material was pushed into the sea depths and froze. Methan ice packs have been hit by oil drilling before and than come up a boil. The theory is that this extra carbon sink accounts for the rapid period of global warming in the geological evidence. Slow global warming slowly raises the rates of forest fires releasing more carbon from the forests when temperatures hit a point of affectin sea temperatures the methane in the ocean becomes gas. These large storages are dumped almost instantly creating a dramatic and quick rise in temperature which melts the ice caps and glaciers. This changes the saline levels of the ocean changing the heat distribution of the currents and flipping into a cold period. So it is best to not bring up these carbon sinks but to leave them untouched. Again the drive should be to move away from carbon based fuel. Related links2 18_earthbelch.html
m l
/ 3_Methane.htm
a ges2/116.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/12/1
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/early-earth-01k.ht
http://www.hydrogen.co.uk/h2_now/journal/articles
http://superstringtheory.com/forum/warmboard/mess
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said: "I drank what?" - Chris Knight (Val Kilmer)- Real Genius
We have plenty of methane that doesn't even need to be mined. Most public landfills have to vent methane properly to prevent explosions. With the right business model, I'm sure state & local governments could use income from selling off methane to be refined into an energy source Hell, even the EPA supports this course of action. Why bother with underwater mining, when it's practically in our own backyards?
The article also speculates that it could cause a enviromental hazard if the water temperature rises and the methanes rises to the athmosphere thereby contributing to global warming.
There's an SF novel about this: Mother of Storms by John Barnes. It's a terrible book in many ways, but the premise - a massive release of methane from one of these undersea methane beds altering the global climate in sudden and completely unexpected ways - is interesting. It's also perhaps something to keep in mind when considering plans to liquefy carbon dioxide and dump it in the sea (as opposed to underground)
Idiot/Savant
"I'd like to see a weighted tax on fuel consumption and emission rate."
Actually those substantial gasoline taxes are a weighted tax on consumption and emission.
What I would prefer to see, as a midsized-car driver who is tired of seeing giant trucks with their bumpers at my eye level, is a different, more expensive, more strict drivers license for vehicles over something like 4600 pounds. Some people need big trucks that can tow and carry things, and they should be able to get them, but I want it to be inconvenient to use one for commuting. And a fedral regulation to lower the bumper height of new cars and trucks would be nice too. As it is, trucks are far too deadly to other vehicles on the road. The sad thing is that all the safety "advantages" of a big truck go away when everyone else has one too, and leaves the streets less safe on the whole.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.