Interview With Gaël Duval of Mandrake Linux

jukal writes "Open for Business's Timothy R. Butler talked with Mandrake co-founder Gaël Duval about the company's past, present, and future. Worth a read, clip: "GD: For one year, we had a so-called "World Class Management" team that left us in a very bad financial situation, and engaged the company in ventures (such as e-learning) that we should never have been involved with. But that's all part of our history now, so I'd prefer to not dwell too much on that. ""

Comments

how funny

[geekoid]

is it that the saying at the bottom of the /. page was:
"All problems are the fault of the last person who quit, until some else quits"?

"problems? why, there the fault of world class managment, hrumph. hurumph. eveythings fine now though."

I don't know there situation, and this isn't a comment about Mandrake per se, but I founf the coincidence very funny.

Re:how funny

[Mudhiker]

And if it's been ages since someone quit and that excuse don't work anymore, blame it on the NEW GUY!

Mandrake Business Plan revealed!

[KNicolson]

Plan v1.0

1. Employ "World-class Management"
2. ???
3. Profit!

Oops, that didn't work, let's try v2.0

1. ???
2. ???
3. Profit!

Re:My prejudice

[leviramsey]

Or as I like to call it "unethical RedHat".

Considering that Mandrake has a much stronger policy regarding Free Software than Red Hat, I find that interesting.

Either that, or IHBT.

Re:My prejudice

[HaggiZ]

Yep

Why is it unethical? I remember as a newbie I had lots of problems getting X up and running in slackware, and just generally having how I want. So I tried RedHat, that was a lot easier. Then I gave KDE a shot, and woah!! Wasn't that a breeze!!

I fail to see why just because it was easier, it was "unethical". Things shouldn't have to be difficult just because they can be.

I think many other newbies are the same as me, and maybe it's a sad reflection of my generation, but slackware (and at times redhat) took too long to do what I wanted when I was learning. I want to make some changes, compile, see the difference. I dont want hours upon hours of trawling config files when I'm learning, I want immediate reflection of my actions so I can learn it quicker.

Once I'm learning it, and starting to actually understand what I'm doing... then I'm willing to spend hours understanding it in more depth.

More power to KDE, if it wasn't for them I probably would have walked away altogether, and I'm sure many others are the same.

Re:My prejudice

[TheTomcat]

to me Mandrake is still RedHat+KDE ... Am I the only one?

I used to think the same thing.

I'm a pretty die-hard Debian fan (100% of my server installations have been Debian for the last year). However, when Woody came out, officially, I tore my desktop apart (time for a backup of critical and wipe of the garbage I'd been collecting). I tried Woody.. liked it just as much as any debian I'd tried (started with slink)... I I also decided to try Mandrake9.0beta (since my machine was in a "confused" state, anyway).

I've used Mandrake before (7.1+). It was always "decent", but had its problems.. I must say I'm impressed with 9.0, and I'm running GNOME on top of it right now, as my primary (home) desktop, as I type.

It's no longer just Redhat + KDE. RedHat can do that on its own.

With 9.0, my opinion is that Mandrake is finally holding its own. It's actually decent to work with, and while I miss apt-get (and can't find a decent MDK-9 apt-rpm repository) greatly, I honestly can't be bothered trying to get all my stuff working on Debian, where with Mandrake, it all works nearly out of the box. And it's no longer impossible to find config files (they're starting to be, for the most part, where you'd expect them).

I'm not bashing Debian, by any means.. just praising Mandrake (9).

S

Mandrake Foundation

[InodoroPereyra]

I read this article earlier and submitted the story myself. What really caught my attention was this paragraph:

For the future, we are thinking about a "Mandrake Foundation" which would be a non-profit organization that focuses on developing the Mandrake Linux distribution exclusively. It would be financed partly by Club memberships and/or donations and/or by a "Street performer"-like system, and partly by companies that make money with Mandrake products, including MandrakeSoft. We think this approach would be much clearer for everyone to understand, and would also provide a more secure future for the Mandrake Linux distribution. It would also help MandrakeSoft become a more successful and profitable company by cutting most of its development costs.

Uou. That is to me some pretty cool idea. I am not sure this is the way to go, but it sounds promising. The other viable model for Mandrake would be to sell solutions (customized desktop environments plus support) to big companies, which is what redhat seems to be trying to do with their upcoming "corporate desktop" thing. Mandrake should go ahead in the same direction. They have a much more polished desktop product.

What a bunch of crap

[Screaming Lunatic]

GD: For one year, we had a so-called "World Class Management" team that left us in a very bad financial situation, and engaged the company in ventures (such as e-learning) that we should never have been involved with. But that's all part of our history now, so I'd prefer to not dwell too much on that.

The above quote is the answer to one question out of about a dozen. 3 lines out of a 150 line article. And is misrepresenative of the article. Duval answers the question and moves on. He tries not to bitch, he tries not to complain. What's this "I love X distro, Mandrake sucks!" crap?

I mod this Slashdot story -1 Troll. Despite the fact it was a decent interview.

If you don't use Mandrake that's fine. Is it kind of a Newbie-Linux distro? You could argue that. It was the first distro I used.

There is place in the Linux-world for as many distros as anyone wants to put out. Deal with it.

Re:My prejudice

[Afrosheen]

"Am I the only one?"

In a word, yes. You may have been around for awhile but you obviously haven't tried Mandrake for years. They ceased being Redhat+KDE about 2 years ago.

Mandrake has steadily built a strong foundation over the years of opensource tools it readily shares with others. Rpmdrake, harddrake, drakgw (the gateway/internet sharing frontend), there are dozens of good tools.

Mandrake also tries to stay as free as possible, as in speech and as in beer. The only cash they care about now is the cash that feeds their developers. Reading the article pretty much reveals this point better than I can express it though.

Bottom line: Mandrake != Redhat+KDE.

Re:My prejudice

[Hercynium]

Mandrake is still RedHat+KDE

Amendment to your statement sir: Mandrake is RedHat+KDE+more flexible installation+insane internationalization support+excellent config tools+an upgrade procedure that *actually* works! (at least for me, it did)

Not only am I using Mandrake on the desktop, I'm beginning to get friends into it w/ dual booting and jut today I used their minimum installation option for a server and I was *highly* pleased at how compact and easy it was. Last RedHat ver I tried was 7.1 and the same config would have probably forced me to install 500+ meg of software, vs. only 150 for mandrake and I splurged on documentation packages and some other niceties I wouldn't have otherwise! (this box will be doing mac&windows file sharing, as well as doubling as a mysql+php test server. Don't ask me why, ask the client.)

Mandrake Club is a charity

[vlad_petric]

I was one of the people who responded to Duval's call in March. I thought I was doing a good thing (and actually still am)- giving some money to the company who created the distribution I had been using for one year on a couple of computers. The fact that I was getting something extra for my money was an even bigger incentive

The months have passed and I have discovered that the "benefits" were only marketing "painting"

the extra rpms were in their vast majority obtainable from their vendors

StarOffice 6.0 - well, you actually pay for it. Only 120$+ members can get it, not the 60$ ones

the unsupported rpms, made by volunteers, sometimes cause more trouble than .tar.gz source compiling

direct trading ? yeah sure, what a benefit. Even if I were investing with my heart, I would still prefer a regular stock market.

not to mention that we, mandrake club members, don't even have a priority ftp!

Overall, I don't consider I was ripped off. The quality of Mandrake is reasonably good. And because the distro is so user-friendly I'm actually migrating my girlfriend to Linux as well (with some Codeweavers help). But there's no real advantage in MDK Club, and I fear the worst for Mandrake in the next year, when the 2001 March memberships will expire.

The Raven

Re:Mandrake Club is a charity

[deno]

Raven,

I'm the guy who came with idea of the MandrakeClub in the first place, and I'm the one who developed it from "idea" into the status you can see today, and I can tell you one thing: MandrakeClub is NOT a charity. It's a busines model which has been used in various sectors for a long time, with more-or-less success, and which can work well for Linux because of the internet. Let me name a few sectors which have similar financing schemas:

- churches
- public radio stations
- Non-governmental organisations

Last but not the least important, there is a long tradition of "street music", which happens to be very strong in Paris, and which has given a name to this type of busines model ("Street performer").

The fact that this model has not been used in software busines until recently is completely irrelevant, unless you want to apply for a "bussines patent" in US. But, I'm transgressing, let's go back to Club...

You are right in one aspect: benefits one gets with MandrakeClub are peanuts compared to the value of MandrakeLinux distribution - which everyone can download free of charge.

This isn't a secret, nor have we ever tried to hide this fact - In fact, this is clearly written on the front page of MandrakeClub site:

As explained in the announcement, your membership in MandrakeClub is, above all, a sign of your financial support. Membership
fees are directly used to cover the costs of developing the distribution and the various services that are offered free of charge to
all Mandrake Linux users. The Club isn't meant as a replacement for paid support or similar services -- you are here because you want to help make Mandrake Linux become even better in the future.

Nevertheless, Club members do receive certain privileges and benefits.

etc.

However, you are also wrong: MandrakeClub is NOT a charity, and even the direct/short term benefits are getting quite interesting with a time. Indirect and long-term benefits (most notably the influence club members have on future of MandrakeLinux) on the other hand are enormous, and yet many people tend to dissmiss them as not interesting, like you did.

Let's take just the example of "RPM-voting" system which you were so quick to dismiss: this system gives you a chance to get new RPMs built because you asked for them. There is a testing stage, in which the folks who asked for a new pack are supposed to report problems, and in the end the system produces higher quality RPMs than what you'll usually find outside of the main distribution. RPM-voting system is now about one month old, and there are still some rough edges to streighten out, but it's quite clear that it's quickly developing in a right direction.

That's a direct/immediate benefit. There is also an indirect benefit, which may be even more important: RPMs Club members ask for will eventually be given higher importance than those noone asks for, and thus the Distribution will change...

The problem is...

Now the problem is: You say that you don't feel ripped off, although you don't find the direct/short-term benefits attractive, so I assume that you actually understood the value of the long-term/indirect benefits, and that you may in fact be ready to remain in the club next year.
At the same time, you discourage others to join the club by writing a comment which will be interpreted as "MandrakeSoft is lying about MadnrakeClub, don't join".

This is sad. :-(

We are not lying to anyone, and Club idea is clearly presented everywhere withouth any exaguration (on the contrary, I'm from Central europe, and can't stand false advertising - therefore Club benefits are rather deemphasised than emphasised), so why do you have this urge to present it in such a bad light?

Re:Mandrake Club is a charity

[deno]

Yes but...

Does the Oxford dictionary have a word for

"giving voluntarily, because you will be better off that way"

or such? It would be really cool if we would have such a word to stick to - "charity" unfortunately doesn't say anything about your motives, and there is a BIG difference between:

Giving because "someone" is in need and

1) you are such a good guy
2) he is working on something that is benefitial to you, and you want him to continue with that work.

I don't expect folks to join the Club because "they are such good guys", I want them to join the club because they really appreciate our work and want us to continue with it.

Reminds me of the two letters joke

[PaxTech]

The outgoing CEO sits down with his replacement and hands him two letters and says "You may get into some trouble you can't get yourself out of in this job. The first time it happens, open this letter. If it happens again, open this second letter."

Sure enough, the new CEO gets into some hot water in about a year and decides he has to open the first letter. Inside it says "Blame everything on me." He goes out and blames everything on his predecessor and the problem goes away.

Some more time passes and the CEO gets into some more hot water. He opens the second letter. Inside it says "Sit down and write two letters..."

"World Class Managment Team"

[namespan]

Malcom Gladwell of the New Yorker recently wrote an article about some of the problems with "World Class" management teams, and in general, certain myths revolving around the concept of "talent". It's an excellent read.

I also became a member

[Idou]

Eventually put in 120 bucks . . .

-The extra downloads are "extra" (consist of commercial packages) and only attainable from the Mandrake packaged distro not the mirrors. I don't think other vendors let you download Star Office.
-Star Office is like $72 . . . you wanted it for $60 and were considering this charity?(for who?)
-unsupported rpms are "unsupported," but I haven't had any trouble (are you using urpmi?). Plus, I found Mplayer that way, which has been worth the $120 (since I don't have enought time to find such software on my own)
-direct trading only applies if you wanna own their stock, but this really is a revolution in the trading of equity (all they did is put up a little system that allows you to trade stock at volumes as low as 50 shares, without having to pay a 3rd party commission. Nothing special EXCEPT no other company seems to be doing this . . . ). So let me get this straight . . . if you had the choice, you would prefer to pay a 3rd party commission just to buy a stock that you have already decided to buy?
- As far as the priority ftp goes . . . it is unfortunate. However, if you spent some time reading posts at mandrakeclub you would know that something of that nature appears to be in the works . . .

I'm sorry the club isn't what you expected but calling it charity seems a bit of an extreme. I wish you could be more specific about what you want out of the club instead of what you don't like.

". . . I fear the worst for Mandrake in the next year, when the 2001 March memberships will expire."

Mandrake 9.0 seems like it will bring in a lot of new members and another 13 new members joined in the last 24 hours so it doesn't seem as bad as you think. Of course, spreading your discontent here, instead of at Mandrakeclub really isn't helping the situation much (though I am sure a lot of mandrake folks visit slashdot on a regular basis).

In conclusion, I really just joined at first to help insure that the distro would continue. The "services" (call them what you like) were really just extra treats. Since I graduated college, I really don't have time to fool around with Linux the way I used to. My job, though it pays well, treats me like a drone and does not allow me to implement most of what I learned during my days in college (both from classes and from playing with Linux). Mandrake is easy enough for me to still play with during my short breaks and the mandrakeclub allows me to give something back since I don't have enough time to learn how to code. Oddly, I don't consider either side of the realationship to be "charity."

One more thing.

[deno]

In case that wasn't clear enough: I can't stand beggars, and they stand no chance to get any money from me. On the other hand, I'm handing out a lot of money to street musicians. So, what's the difference?

BEGGAR: this guy attempts to get money from me by showing how miserable he is. For many of them, begging is a profession of choice. Others really end up being beggars out of misery, but I live in supposedly "social state", pay high taxes, and demand from my goverment to take care of people who can't take care of themselves. Begging is a shame.

MUSICIAN (anod other street performers): These guys entertain me, make my kid happy, and generally "make my day". I WANT to give them some money, because I WANT to see them again. Beeing a street performer is not very lucrative job (they can only reach very small public), but there is no shame in doing it. On the contrary, a town withouth street performers would IMO be a very sad place.