Installing the ML 2006 on this MB is quite eventless. It works. Watching DVDs works fine (i.e. it`s not too slow for this task) out of the box. Haven't tried the divX yet. No idea how much faster the SP8000 will be when I re-compile the Xorg, but "out of the box" the 3D stuff is deadly slow.
I added the plf and contrib as urpmi sources, and installed the pre-copiled ivtv and myth* rpms. Also seems to work OK, but m still missing the fb device associated with PVR350. Now I'm stuck on trying to get a frequencies list for Austria.:-(
In the meantime I tried recompiling the kernel, which just proved what we already know: this machine shouldn't be used for CPU intensive tasks.
BTW, the machine needs ca. 40W, and runs withouth any fans. Its getting somewhat warm, but seems to be stable for now. Let's see hw long will it survive..-)
I've used the LDAP+kerberos at home for a while now, and what I missed the most is some friendly front-end that will simply do the user/group/pass/etc. managment for me with LDAP&kerberus in the back.
Another thing would be kerberized services, such as IMAP, ssh, NFS...
Sure, it all can be done, but one year ago it was a general PITA and DYS all the way. Have things changed in a meantime?
For me it just does not feel right to think that samba will soon be the simplest way to get a secure linux-only SOHO.:-(
I'm currently downloading the M2006, and I wonder how will it work with SP8000 mini-ITX motherboard.
It took me a while to decide upon actually buying such a slow system, but I presume it will be fast enough for a job at hand, which is: "quietly sit in my living room, act as a web, DynDNS, login and file server for my local network, and do the multimedia stuff when needed (mp3, TV, DVDs and DivX).
The problem is that VIA doesn't really play nicely with Linux, and one had to do quite a lot of work on his own in the past before getting a reasonably well working system. Wonder how much work has been done in this direction (if any) by Mandriva folks since 2005LE?
Is it just me, or is this news really at least 2-3 years late?
I mean, IBM was a sitting duck in late 90s. Then they re-focused their strategy around Linux, and came back as a completely new "big blue", one we can actually *like*.
In y2000, IBM has already been the greatest promotor of Linux, helped open the doors for other Free Software/Open Source in the companies, and got a really nice ROI on this investment - both in term of $$, and in the mindshare.
We are in 2004 now, and someone suddenly discovered all this? Oh, my!
I assambled a little living-room machine few months ago, and went for a nforce2 based MoBo and an underclocked Athlon (2500+) as well.
The whole machine needs around 60W now, and thanks to temperature regulated fans isn't very laud, but I still have to switch it off whenever someone stays overnight in my place.
As soon as I get some free again, this machine will become a "workstation", and I'll get something that makes no noise at all for the living room.
I don't know about other folks out there, but *MY* next computer is going to be a SILENT one:
No fans, possibly no moving parts at all, and with power consumption low enough that my living room and my electricity bill don't need aditional cooling either..-)
I've been watching the VIA EPIA based mini boards for a while, and I like what I see. If AMD wants to compete in this segment, I may buy an AMD offer again - they stil have a few more months to make up thir minds.
I'm somewhat surprised to see drupal forgotten in this comparison. FYI, I've evaluated most of the packs mentioned on that site lately, and choose drupal in the end.
Sure, my needs aren't everyone needs, but I got the impression that drupal is quite popular out there...
Difference between Dell and HP IMO goes beyond the simple copycat/inovator level.
For me, Dell is just an overgrown no-name company with zero appeal. HP on the other hand stands for quality products, and has a certain appeal.
Sure, I wouldn't pay an order of magnitude for comparable products, but as long as the price difference isn't too big, HP winns by a big margine.
As far as printers go, the only real choice is between HP and epson. I'm simply not rich enough to buy "cheap" Lexmark printers, and wouldn't even consider an Dell printer. (Do they even make any printers, or is it just relabeling?)
"Service": MandrakeClub is a service. I fully agree with you that this is the future. "Boxes": This is indeed a dying model. Sure, tehre will always be a place for a few boxes, but this is not where one can expect the big growth. "Hardware": This is for "big guys". Forget it for now.
So far so good. And now to more interesting part:
"We don't need the company on our back": Yes. I am quite sure that you are perfectly ready to do all the work on distro development on your own and without asking anythign in return. Get a life - building a distro costs, and SOMEONE has to pay for it. (Yes, even Debian has a funding, even though it's not centralised but shared between the companies that have a vested interest in it. That's why Debian is such a good server, and bad desktop - the folks who pay for the development want to have good server distro...)
"Artificially induced success": now, that's a nice neologism! Every success is "artificial", because in order to be succesfull you need to persuade the people to buy your product, or get the money elsewhere.
1) A company that sticks to the values of Open Source/Free Software movement, and then has to remind the users from time to time that development costs. 2) A company that does not stick to these values, and try to turn Linux into proprietary system by putting its proprietary licenses on key parts of the system, and such.
The point is that companies of the second groop inherently have less interest in keeping the prices low and quality high than those of the first group... You just got rid of Microsoft BECAUSE they were the company of the second type, and now you are begging for a Linux-clone thereof? Does not make sense to me.
Mandrake is in the first group, and that's a Good Thing For You (TM), because it assures that you really OWN your software, and that the company can never become a big bad monopolist that does not care about your (customers) needs.
As for the MandrakeClub, it happens to be a very nice service that's worth the money you pay for it. IMHO, the 'Club' model is the future of free software financing, at least as far as SoHO and home users are concerned. All the other models I've seen so far are either:
Service offers targeting big companies
or:
Based on the idea that free software must be wrapped in proprietary license in order to sell it the classical way.
Yes, *I* do think that RPMs save you from dependency problems. On the last count I wasn't exactly a total newbie.:-)
Funny thing is that (in my experience) it is exactly the newbies who complain about dependency problems with RPMs. this is how the story (usually) goes:
A: This damn thing doesn't work!!!! B: Which damn thing? A: urpmi! It's all broken! B: Could you please elaborate this a bit? A: It wan't install packages!!! B: Eer... Which packages, if I may ask?
SCENARIO 1:
A: grmkn-0.01-alpha.tyr.gz B: We are sorry, but urpmi is made for installing.rpm packages, not tarballs. Also, please note that alpha releases aren't exactly the stuff that newbies shoudl use... A: HOW DEAR YOU !!! I have used windows for 10 years, and know all shartcuts by heart, and now you tell me I'm a newbie! Take your broken software and stuff it... (etc.)
SCENARIO 2:
A: grmkn-0.01-alpha.i386.rpm B: This does not look like a mandrake rpm package. This does not mean that it wil not work on Mandrake system, but the source from which you are getting it probably doesn't have the info needed for urpmi/rpmdrake to work properly. That is, you have to download it, and define a local rpm source.You'll also need to download all the files it depends on, too. In the worst case (i.e. if it requires some libraries, and the lib-rpms are badly built) this will not work at all. A: AARGH!!! This rpm stuff is all broken, I knew it! Take your broken software and stuff it... (etc.)
SCENARIO 3:
A: grmkn-0.01-alpha.i586.mdk.rpm B: This is a cooker RPM. A: I know, but I really want to install it. B: What is exactly the problem? A: Well, when I try to install it with urpmi/rpmdrake, it tells me that it will download 50 other packages. I don't want all this!! B: I am sorry, but the package you asked for requires the latest KDE to work properly, and KDE is rather big... A: AARGH!!! This rpm stuff is all broken, I knew it! Take your broken software and stuff it... (etc.)
This IS indeed a lot of trouble to go through for a Mandrake user.
No, I don't claim that they (ie. we) can't do it, but I must admitt that I haven't compiled anything myself in the last two years, simply because I didn't have to.
You know how it is: at first you have no money and plenty of time, so you opt for doing it all by yourself and saving a few bucks.
As the time goes on you have more money (ok, at least theoretically) and less time (this one is for sure), and then you really start appreciating the DVDs you don't have to burn yourself, and ready-to-use Nvidia RPMs from MandrakeClub...
Right. One month of trial membership, and you can even keeep the "alumni" status afterwards.
It's good for advertising, as the folks will get a chance to take a look at the Club on their own, rather than listening to various FUD that's circulating.
Guess what: MadnrakeLinux has no proprietary components in the core of its distribution.
Interesting difference with some other folks, no?
Guess further: what will be the next step when some distro gets you hooked on because of some proprietary add-on they have? By-by the reason for having Linux in the first place.
Corel was for all intents and purpose a garbage. I rember an old Professor at university who tried installing that monester on his PC, and finally called me to give it a try.
I believe in free choice, and I've been using various Linux versions for years by then, but that beast woudl simply not work as advertised.
In the end I gave up, gave him my mandrake CDs, and said I'll come to install and configure the machine the next day. Guess what - next day his machine was already up and running, so I had nothing to do...
Paying for something you don't use is really not something I woudl ask you to do - even if it ends up feeding me..-)
Not paying for something one does use (which is what many people do these days) is on the other hand a very stupid thing. One day you wake up, and the "free lunch" is gone...;-)
In spite of the very unfortunate way MandrakeClub is "advertised" (ahem), MandrakeClub is not a charity, but a service.
I am in charge of MandrakeClub, and i have worked very hard for last 12 months to build that place into something really special.It isn't finished yet, but it is indeed on a good way to become by far the best "service" for private users and small companies.
I wan't bother you with the details (as if someone would care to read anyway), but there is a whole bunch of people there who are really happy to be Club members today, so I must have done something right after all.
I know that everyone on Slashdot is telling you that Club is no-good, but maybe you should just go there once, and try to build your own meaning.
OK, it wan't be a very excitiong trip (site is not made for anonymous users, and it is in fact even quite unfriendly towards them), but maybe you could still get a feeling that it isn't "just charity" by browsing trough FAQs, and looking at the discussion in the "future" forum on MandrakeClub.
Slashdot Mirror
Installing the ML 2006 on this MB is quite eventless. It works. Watching DVDs works fine (i.e. it`s not too slow for this task) out of the box. Haven't tried the divX yet. No idea how much faster the SP8000 will be when I re-compile the Xorg, but "out of the box" the 3D stuff is deadly slow.
:-(
.-)
I added the plf and contrib as urpmi sources, and installed the pre-copiled ivtv and myth* rpms. Also seems to work OK, but m still missing the fb device associated with PVR350. Now I'm stuck on trying to get a frequencies list for Austria.
In the meantime I tried recompiling the kernel, which just proved what we already know: this machine shouldn't be used for CPU intensive tasks.
BTW, the machine needs ca. 40W, and runs withouth any fans. Its getting somewhat warm, but seems to be stable for now. Let's see hw long will it survive.
Hi Buchan,
:-(
I've used the LDAP+kerberos at home for a while now, and what I missed the most is some friendly front-end that will simply do the user/group/pass/etc. managment for me with LDAP&kerberus in the back.
Another thing would be kerberized services, such as IMAP, ssh, NFS...
Sure, it all can be done, but one year ago it was a general PITA and DYS all the way. Have things changed in a meantime?
For me it just does not feel right to think that samba will soon be the simplest way to get a secure linux-only SOHO.
yup. Which kind of explains why I prefer using mdk instead of epios. :-)
I'm currently downloading the M2006, and I wonder how will it work with SP8000 mini-ITX motherboard.
It took me a while to decide upon actually buying such a slow system, but I presume it will be fast enough for a job at hand, which is: "quietly sit in my living room, act as a web, DynDNS, login and file server for my local network, and do the multimedia stuff when needed (mp3, TV, DVDs and DivX).
The problem is that VIA doesn't really play nicely with Linux, and one had to do quite a lot of work on his own in the past before getting a reasonably well working system. Wonder how much work has been done in this direction (if any) by Mandriva folks since 2005LE?
Is it just me, or is this news really at least 2-3 years late?
I mean, IBM was a sitting duck in late 90s. Then they re-focused their strategy around Linux, and came back as a completely new "big blue", one we can actually *like*.
In y2000, IBM has already been the greatest promotor of Linux, helped open the doors for other Free Software/Open Source in the companies, and got a really nice ROI on this investment - both in term of $$, and in the mindshare.
We are in 2004 now, and someone suddenly discovered all this? Oh, my!
I assambled a little living-room machine few months ago, and went for a nforce2 based MoBo and an underclocked Athlon (2500+) as well.
The whole machine needs around 60W now, and thanks to temperature regulated fans isn't very laud, but I still have to switch it off whenever someone stays overnight in my place.
As soon as I get some free again, this machine will become a "workstation", and I'll get something that makes no noise at all for the living room.
I don't know about other folks out there, but *MY* next computer is going to be a SILENT one:
.-)
No fans, possibly no moving parts at all, and with power consumption low enough that my living room and my electricity bill don't need aditional cooling either.
I've been watching the VIA EPIA based mini boards for a while, and I like what I see. If AMD wants to compete in this segment, I may buy an AMD offer again - they stil have a few more months to make up thir minds.
I'm somewhat surprised to see drupal forgotten in this comparison. FYI, I've evaluated most of the packs mentioned on that site lately, and choose drupal in the end.
Sure, my needs aren't everyone needs, but I got the impression that drupal is quite popular out there...
Difference between Dell and HP IMO goes beyond the simple copycat/inovator level.
For me, Dell is just an overgrown no-name company with zero appeal. HP on the other hand stands for quality products, and has a certain appeal.
Sure, I wouldn't pay an order of magnitude for comparable products, but as long as the price difference isn't too big, HP winns by a big margine.
As far as printers go, the only real choice is between HP and epson. I'm simply not rich enough to buy "cheap" Lexmark printers, and wouldn't even consider an Dell printer. (Do they even make any printers, or is it just relabeling?)
Let me see:
"Service": MandrakeClub is a service. I fully agree with you that this is the future.
"Boxes": This is indeed a dying model. Sure, tehre will always be a place for a few boxes, but this is not where one can expect the big growth.
"Hardware": This is for "big guys". Forget it for now.
So far so good. And now to more interesting part:
"We don't need the company on our back": Yes. I am quite sure that you are perfectly ready to do all the work on distro development on your own and without asking anythign in return. Get a life - building a distro costs, and SOMEONE has to pay for it. (Yes, even Debian has a funding, even though it's not centralised but shared between the companies that have a vested interest in it. That's why Debian is such a good server, and bad desktop - the folks who pay for the development want to have good server distro...)
"Artificially induced success": now, that's a nice neologism! Every success is "artificial", because in order to be succesfull you need to persuade the people to buy your product, or get the money elsewhere.
There are only two choices:
1) A company that sticks to the values of Open Source/Free Software movement, and then has to remind the users from time to time that development costs.
2) A company that does not stick to these values, and try to turn Linux into proprietary system by putting its proprietary licenses on key parts of the system, and such.
The point is that companies of the second groop inherently have less interest in keeping the prices low and quality high than those of the first group... You just got rid of Microsoft BECAUSE they were the company of the second type, and now you are begging for a Linux-clone thereof? Does not make sense to me.
Mandrake is in the first group, and that's a Good Thing For You (TM), because it assures that you really OWN your software, and that the company can never become a big bad monopolist that does not care about your (customers) needs.
As for the MandrakeClub, it happens to be a very nice service that's worth the money you pay for it. IMHO, the 'Club' model is the future of free software financing, at least as far as SoHO and home users are concerned. All the other models I've seen so far are either:
Service offers targeting big companies
or:
Based on the idea that free software must be wrapped in proprietary license in order to sell it the classical way.
Let me see...
:-)
.rpm packages, not tarballs. Also, please note that alpha releases aren't exactly the stuff that newbies shoudl use...
Yes, *I* do think that RPMs save you from dependency problems. On the last count I wasn't exactly a total newbie.
Funny thing is that (in my experience) it is exactly the newbies who complain about dependency problems with RPMs. this is how the story (usually) goes:
A: This damn thing doesn't work!!!!
B: Which damn thing?
A: urpmi! It's all broken!
B: Could you please elaborate this a bit?
A: It wan't install packages!!!
B: Eer... Which packages, if I may ask?
SCENARIO 1:
A: grmkn-0.01-alpha.tyr.gz
B: We are sorry, but urpmi is made for installing
A: HOW DEAR YOU !!! I have used windows for 10 years, and know all shartcuts by heart, and now you tell me I'm a newbie! Take your broken software and stuff it... (etc.)
SCENARIO 2:
A: grmkn-0.01-alpha.i386.rpm
B: This does not look like a mandrake rpm package. This does not mean that it wil not work on Mandrake system, but the source from which you are getting it probably doesn't have the info needed for urpmi/rpmdrake to work properly. That is, you have to download it, and define a local rpm source.You'll also need to download all the files it depends on, too. In the worst case (i.e. if it requires some libraries, and the lib-rpms are badly built) this will not work at all.
A: AARGH!!! This rpm stuff is all broken, I knew it! Take your broken software and stuff it... (etc.)
SCENARIO 3:
A: grmkn-0.01-alpha.i586.mdk.rpm
B: This is a cooker RPM.
A: I know, but I really want to install it.
B: What is exactly the problem?
A: Well, when I try to install it with urpmi/rpmdrake, it tells me that it will download 50 other packages. I don't want all this!!
B: I am sorry, but the package you asked for requires the latest KDE to work properly, and KDE is rather big...
A: AARGH!!! This rpm stuff is all broken, I knew it! Take your broken software and stuff it... (etc.)
In fact, I tend to agree with McGibby.
This IS indeed a lot of trouble to go through for a Mandrake user.
No, I don't claim that they (ie. we) can't do it, but I must admitt that I haven't compiled anything myself in the last two years, simply because I didn't have to.
You know how it is: at first you have no money and plenty of time, so you opt for doing it all by yourself and saving a few bucks.
As the time goes on you have more money (ok, at least theoretically) and less time (this one is for sure), and then you really start appreciating the DVDs you don't have to burn yourself, and ready-to-use Nvidia RPMs from MandrakeClub...
Guess what: that wouldn't do you much good with Mandrake distro.
And that's where Club comes in.
It's a tradition, you know.. .-)
Right. One month of trial membership, and you can even keeep the "alumni" status afterwards.
It's good for advertising, as the folks will get a chance to take a look at the Club on their own, rather than listening to various FUD that's circulating.
Guess what: MadnrakeLinux has no proprietary components in the core of its distribution.
Interesting difference with some other folks, no?
Guess further: what will be the next step when some distro gets you hooked on because of some proprietary add-on they have? By-by the reason for having Linux in the first place.
That was one of the options we thought of for 9.1, but it was dropped in the end - for better or for worse.
PPC port was never dropped, but PPc is releases once/year, not twice like i586 distro.
.-)
Which is in my eyes a plus for PPC, but some folks see it differently.
Honestly?
RC1 is a sign that even a bit "faint at hearth", but willing to help folks can try it out now. You can call it "beta 4" if you prefer...
Corel was for all intents and purpose a garbage. I rember an old Professor at university who tried installing that monester on his PC, and finally called me to give it a try.
I believe in free choice, and I've been using various Linux versions for years by then, but that beast woudl simply not work as advertised.
In the end I gave up, gave him my mandrake CDs, and said I'll come to install and configure the machine the next day. Guess what - next day his machine was already up and running, so I had nothing to do...
Paying for something you don't use is really not something I woudl ask you to do - even if it ends up feeding me. .-)
;-)
Not paying for something one does use (which is what many people do these days) is on the other hand a very stupid thing. One day you wake up, and the "free lunch" is gone...
What's the problem?
Everyone who likes the distro is welcome to join the MadnrakeClub, and I don't see why people should not download the beta anyway.
"the news of my death has been greatly exaggerated"
:-)
LOL!
In spite of the very unfortunate way MandrakeClub is "advertised" (ahem), MandrakeClub is not a charity, but a service.
I am in charge of MandrakeClub, and i have worked very hard for last 12 months to build that place into something really special.It isn't finished yet, but it is indeed on a good way to become by far the best "service" for private users and small companies.
I wan't bother you with the details (as if someone would care to read anyway), but there is a whole bunch of people there who are really happy to be Club members today, so I must have done something right after all.
I know that everyone on Slashdot is telling you that Club is no-good, but maybe you should just go there once, and try to build your own meaning.
OK, it wan't be a very excitiong trip (site is not made for anonymous users, and it is in fact even quite unfriendly towards them), but maybe you could still get a feeling that it isn't "just charity" by browsing trough FAQs, and looking at the discussion in the "future" forum on MandrakeClub.