Slashdot Mirror
Great Firewall Becomes Greater
Jay writes "This article on Yahoo! mentions China's new restrictions on websites as of September 1st. Apparently it's more advanced and doesn't censor the entire webpage, just portions. It also forwards requests for search engines, like google, to less effective search engines. They also mention that this might just be temporary during a Communist Party Congress. Anyone have a mirror?"
A different AP article spins things slightly differently, emphasizing that Google is apparently no longer blocked in China and mentioning the selective blocking of web content only in passing.
The wiley will find ways around it.
The rest won't miss it.
At least its stepping up the challenge for those who are wiley!
(I think it's pretty devious that they aren't blocking google searches, just sending them to a less efficient search engine! ha!)
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
As any parent can tell you, telling your child not to look in the "forbidden closet of mystery" undoubtedly ends in your child doing the opposite. I think it's only a matter of time before the people of China put an end to the censorship.
-- My hovercraft is full of eels.
All it takes is one box being set up to mirror, or finding an unblocked box to route through...they're shooting themselves in the foot. For every major page they want to censor, there's a thousand more that aren't as prominent that will have the same political gist...
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
I am sure there is one in here somewhere.
Michael Loves Me!
Actually, the Yahoo article says that it blocks portions of websites rather than whole websites. Blocking parts of individual webpages would be a bit tougher
I suppose the Chinese government dedicated little effort to alerting users of a modification. This is an ideal method by which to distribute propaganda. ;)
Do you like German cars?
Effective and efficient are easily interchangeable words, don't feel bad.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
Yeah, it's off his latest album, entitled "My right to download all the music and software I want is constitutionally protected according to 1337-dude39 on slashdot.org"..really long title, the spine of the cd formats it really poorly.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
How insidious.
"Why would you want to view these sites? They're all crap! Where's the content?"
"Go back to your homes, read the newspapers we print for you and for Mao's Sake Don't get knocked up! We have enough people as it is. I repeat, DO NOT SCREW!"
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Except for use it without a flash plugin... Sheesh, it should at least have skip intro or an explanation of what the page does.
The only limit is yourself, at ZOMBOCOM!
I love that site. When newbie 'net users ask me which sites I frequent I always point them to that one just to see their reaction.
What is?
There are 8 camaras on my 1 mile jorney two work, and i live in the country side.
The UK governemnt is talking about killing people for the peace of the world.
I can be free from the bondage of work, but I will probably die or be arrested if I take up the freedom.
And look at the streangth gained by Ignorant voteing.
China fits the Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength bit i suppose.
But more in the
'Religion is unpure thinking therefore we ban Religion, and save your neck by doing so.'
'Greed is the greatest temptation so well stop you from knowing whats out there because you might just become tempted.'
Oh and were all a bunch of power mungers must fit in there somewhere, but then thats the case with most countries.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
No problem, dude : just set your browser with 203.93.218.65, port 80 as proxy. I just tried it : Google isn't blocked, and it returns the same pages as here (I made a search for censorship , hope I won't cause problems to the poor fellows that own that proxy =)
Xenu brings order!
Sites that link to controversial Chinese sites. don't necessarily promote these idealogies; they are merely acknowledging their controversial nature. It reminds me a little of the Monty Python sketch about the world's funniest joke , and anyone who heard or viewed the joke would die of laughter. The premise of censorship is that offensive content contaminates the hearts and minds of people. But you can only have censorship if someone can judge content without himself being contaminated. This contradicts the premise of censorship, which alleges that these contaminating powers exist inherently in the offensive material. On the other hand, if a censor can censor without being contaminated, that implies that offensive content does not automatically contaminate the mind or heart of a person. In that case, you would be admitting that censorship is unnecessary. That is the contradiction of censorship.
Test China's Firewall
Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston
Now if we can just get them to recognize that the legitimate government of China sits in Taipei....
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Oh but I do, unicron, I do!
[winces towards the sky in anguish, followed by howling and the gnashing of teeth]
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I know that I'm going to be modded as a troll for not conforming to the masses yet again, but comon, at least be more imaginative than comparing every to 1984.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Now, if only the Chinese Government would prevent e-mail from escaping their country, about 75% of the SPAM I receive every day would disapear.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
China is only communist by name. In reality, their economy is a mix between communism and capitalism, and they're on their way to convert even more things to capitalism. If you walk around in China, you'll be flooded by ads everywhere. Lots of people own small shops or companies.
They might be even "more capitalist" than us. The shops and restaurants there don't hesitate to stay open all night if there are enough customers (so they can ear more money). I don't see West-European shops or restaurants do that, they close after 10 PM no matter how many customers.
And Cisco is not the only U.S. company in Beijing's pocket. Let's not forget our friends at Yahoo!
This is a sad reminder of how large American companies have abandoned the idea of corporate ethics. The Chinese government is probably arresting, and maybe executing, pro-democracy advocates based on the work of companies like Cisco and Yahoo!. The U.S. government should prosecute the bastards at Cisco and Yahoo! responsible for providing these tools to the Chinese government.
Wow, you've been censored!
I viewed the same link as you, and got these top 3 results:
antiw*r.com "leave china alone"
english.peopledaily.com.cn "foreign f***n g**g activists asked to leave"
hyperm*rt.net "yankees leave china alone"
And then some news articles about the North K*reans seeking asylum in China then moving to South K*rea.
I starred out things above so hopefully the Great Firewall of China won't block this post and you can read it.
I have a friend in China and we often ICQ each other to test the firewall and verify things he's researching, and we've ran into several surprising differences....
Dr. Demento On The 'Net!
In what year do we live again? Right, 2002. 2002 - 1989 = 13. Any big revolts since 1989?
Oh, about "ran them over with tanks": where do you see people getting run over? I see tanks, but I never see anybody getting run over by tanks or flat dead bodies.
> its more like articles on how comunism doesnt work or
This is hilarious. They've switched half of their economy to capitalism and is still continueing to do so!
Communism and capitalism are *economical* systems, not political systems.
> Capitalism assumes private ownership
Lots of Chinese *own* shops and companies. Yes, you read that right. *Own*.
Can't get Google?
Try the recently released Googlemail
http://www.capescience.com/google/index.shtml
send an e-mail to: google@capeclear.comwith your query in the subject line.
Of course, google cache is probably not accessible
So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
I love zombocom!
OK quote the word in my post that might mean "capitalism is evil" or "I hate corporations" and I'll give you a cookie.
This is not a joke, China really is partially capitalist. People can *own* companies, and *make profit*.
> It gets old.
So does that story from 1989.
Read this:n ists/wi ckham/wick045.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/comment/colum
Yup, that's a US news site.
In case anyone thinks this poster really lives in China (moderators, I'm looking in your direction), note that our beloved Slashdot is on the blocklist.
> Wow. You're ignorant.
Then enlighten me with your wisedom.
> 1. The gov't would do their best to censor any
> news of any revolts from leaving the country.
I left the country by... filling an emigration form to The Netherlands and then stepping in an airplane, 8 years ago?
Wow, my parents must have really searched through a lot of illegal sources! My god, we'll be killed if we visit China!
Oh wait, I've visited China 3 times already ever since I left! What the hell is going on? Enlighten me, oh wise NineNine!
> 2. People in China who even *think* about any
> such thing are summarily "disappeared".
You mean they invented mass-mind reading machines? I wanna get one!
You all might think that china is far behind civilization with their censorship of the internet/free speech, but in fact you couldn't be further from the truth. They are actually years ahead of us all!
:)
Just remember, in a few years time when DRM is mandatory and free speech is crippled by 'national security' and the need for everyone to be protected from alternative ideas, china will be leading the way in firewalls, and filters, and they'll be teaching _Cisco_ how to do it
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
yeah, seriously people, i'm trolling for +1 funny, and getting +1 interesting.
stupid moderators.
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
Or maybe it's because they don't WANT a bloody revolution and war.
Hey, things improved in the last 10 years, I don't see a reason why things won't keep improving, especially now that they get a new government.
What's that you say, Mr Bush? No, I don't think Tibet has any oil. Why do you ask?
Hello? Hello? Mr Bush?
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
The shops and restaurants there don't hesitate to stay open all night if there are enough customers (so they can ear more money). I don't see West-European shops or restaurants do that, they close after 10 PM no matter how many customers.
24-hour businesses are quite common in America.
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
The spam is only *forwarded* from open SMTP servers. But the spam themselve are usually from America or Europe.
Obviously some geeks are helping the government out in implementing this, no? The selective blocking software is non-trivial. What are those guys thinking? How can you be part of the technology sector and still help limit people's access to it? Do these guys realize that they're going to Geek Hell?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
So that makes it right?
As for revolt, I seem to remember a little incident a few years back where chineese student protestors were gunned down in Tianamen(sp?) square.
Mao was no fool when he said that political power came from the barrel of a gun. Any significant attempt at revolt by those without guns (the chineese people) would quickly be put down by those with guns (the chineese government and its thugs).
This is ultimately the agenda behind the efforts by some to disarm the american public. George Washington called fireams "the people's liberty's teeth." To disarm is to disempower. Those without power are always at the mercy of those who have it. The fact that there are factions and groups in this country who fear the idea that free individuals would be empowered and collectively hold more power than the government says a lot about what these groups are about. It says that they have something to fear from free men and women, which is a pretty good indication that they are the enemy of free men and women. They have motives and agendas that are contrary to the wishes and well-being of the public. They know that the only way they'll ever be able to shove their agenda down our throats is if they have all the power and we have none. These types are present within any political party or group you care to mention, although there is a heavy concentration of them on the left. To disarm is to disempower and to disempower is to ultimately disenfranchise. Protect your freedom, it is the only thing more valuable than your life.
I see little reason for me to respect a government whose authority is not derived from the consent and endorsement of the governed. That is not what the chineese government is.
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
It's not that easy. When the US seperated from Great Britain, this was the situation. A rich colony with tons of native resources and great leadership fighting a (compartively) upstart World Power who was an ocean away, busy fighting other wars, and didn't care all that much about keeping the colony anyway. In China, the situation is very different. You've got an entrenched government, supported by afformentioned rich colony, with a huge amount of millitary and intelligence resources, in a country with a thousands-year history of repressive governments, vs a billion relatively poor people with few natural resources (under their control), no leaders, and no communications network to speak of. The modern police state has made the conventional revolution very difficult. Without strong leaders, especially, no uprising can happen. And it is exactly this kind of thing (the firewall) that prevents strong leaders from rising. Take the SSR as an example. Did the people there overthrow their communist government? Hell no. It collapsed due to intense competition with the most powerful nation on earth, and even then it took internal forces in the government itself to finally open things up.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
But not in the capitalist Europe.
Back during the revolution a crowd of 1000 protestors would be dispersed by a bunch of police, who could do nothing but drive them off. With modern riot control gear it is now possible for a relatively small group of police to effectively detain entire crowds (use CS foam to block exit paths, push crowd into corner, pluck them out one by one). Also - it is common for the Chinese to photograph large demonstrations and use modern technology to form databases of suspected dissadents. Facial recognition has its shortcomings, but it probably works to identify a good chunk of those present at what otherwise would be an anonymous protest.
That isn't to say that the people of China need to fight for themselves. However, in reality most revolutions are led by a distinct set of leaders - and China is quite good at nipping anybody who could fulfill that role before anybody even hears about them.
But not in the capitalist Europe.
Didn't know there was one, these days. Maybe Hungary or someplace.
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
The sad thing is that China, a market socialist dictatorship, is doing fairly well compared to many African countries (such as Zimbawe, Ethiopia, or Angola) where people are starving or near starvation.
A market socialist dictatorship that keeps the peace is better than a market-destroying dictatorship that fights civil wars.
But at the same time, I think the people of China will eventually realize that political freedom is good once they run out of the ability to grow their economy under a market socialist dictatorship.
China had a need - cisco filled it !
Nazi Germany had a need and the companies that built the gas chambers filled it. I suppose you view that as another example of capitalism at its finest.
If it was against US law for a company to support a goverment trying to take away rights of their people, thats a different story altogether!
There was a time when most U.S. companies had the moral fortitude to not only obey the letter of the law, but also to behave ethically.
This is probably going to sound like crazy talk to you, but there are more important things than making money. You might be able to make a fortune selling child-sized hancuffs to NAMBLA (The North American Man/Boy Love Association) members, but it would still be wrong -- even if it was legal. You might find Al Qaeda to be a willing buyer for fertilizer and diesel fuel, but that does not mean that you should sell it to them. You should be guided by higher principles than simply acquiring more money.
"That story" from 1989 better not get old. It represents all that China (and, arguably, Communism) stands for- oppression and dumbing down of its society so that they do not question the authority.
This is where Americans begin to sound very arrogant and ignorant indeed. As a person from a Chinese family myself, allow me to say this:
1. China is not a "communist" country any more than Hitler was a good Christian. Just because you claim to be something does not make it true. China is a corrupt political state, but that has little in the end to do with abstract economic theory. "Communism" is just a word used by the powerful to justify keeping all of the cash and power for themselves!
2. China does not "stand for" oppression and dumbing down of society. China is not a symbol, China is home to more than a billion people like you and me who are living everyday lives full of the human things: love, work, sleep, family, and so on. China's citizens and even China's dissidents do not exist to make political points for you; they are trying to live life and to make the world a better place. And let me also tell you this: they are not dumb by any stretch of the imagination. You seem to imagine a land full of little uneducated, unskilled sheep who have been fattened on a diet of propaganda. Not so!
Yes, you're trying to score one for "freedom" I understand, but you're doing it in such a disrespectful way that one wonders whether you really care about those involved, or you're simply another American jingoist trying to feel superior to everyone else.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
The Netherlands, Germany and France are 100% capitalist in case you didn't know...
I should write a guide to spotting a troll. Hitler / Nazi references, anyone?
Just cut the name-calling and address the question at hand. Nazi references are used because they are extreme and make a point.
When a government wants something, they'll find a supplier. If no suppliers exist, non-democratic governments will force someone to build what they are looking for.
I can see it now: Slave labor camps of thousands of workers being forced to make thousands of Cisco router clones. Programmers slaving away without sodas or coffee, copy the Cisco features while adding functionality to allow the filtering and spying features. The horror! The absurdity.
So let's take this back to my original point:
I believe that your line of reasoning drove the businesses that built the Nazi death camps: "If we don't sell them gas chambers, some other business will..."
Is that your point or not? Are you saying that the companies that designed and built the gas chambers in the Nazi death camps did nothing wrong because "when a government wants something, they'll find a supplier."
People like you in the U.S. government are partly responsible for a meddling foreign policy that has brought terrorists to our very doorstep. If the U.S. would mind its own business once in awhile (like Canada), we would have far less problems.
Yes. Let's ignore human rights violations, mass murders, Saddam gassing entire villages to death, China jailing people for expressing their beliefs, Palestinian suicide bombers killing women and children in marketplaces, etc. You're the type of person who hears someone screaming for help and then looks the other way. Criminals love your kind.
You've got a lot of nerve calling me a troll and then claiming that 'we asked for it' in regards to the terrorist attacks of 9/11/2001.
Jeezus Christ - more than once in the same thread? Is that the best you can come up with?
Yes. Can you come up with a better example of an infamous evil government than that? If so, tell me and I'll be glad to use that as an example.
The Netherlands, Germany and France are 100% capitalist in case you didn't know...
Ha. 100%? Aside from mandated short work weeks and the inability to fire workers, I suppose.
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
What's wrong with protecting the workers? Exploitation of workers is *the* reason why socialism and communism exists in the first place.
> you end up with countries like communist Russia and China
I think you're confusing economical systems with political systems. There's nothing that stops somebody from creating a capitalist totalitarian state or a socialist democracy.
And as I've pointed out earlier, China is a blend between communism and capitalism. How else do you explain all the capitalist Chinese companies and all the ads for Chinese products on street (in China) and on TV (in China)? Or that lots of people own small shops?
Oh, thank you for reminding me! Whenever I need a quick pickmeup in the harsh post 9/11 world I live in, I can choose between going on a personal development course, or sitting in front of Zombocom on my exercise bike. Thanks again.
"The unattainable is unknown at Zombocom"
"The only limit is yourself"
"Anything is possible at Zombocom"
"The infinite is possible at Zombocom"
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood