Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft foils Xbox hackers with new Config
randomizer9 writes was among several readers who noted that Microsoft has changed the configs on the XBox and really messed up the hackers who have been trying to coax the box into being divx players, linux boxes, microwave ovens, white noise generators and so on. Kinda doubt the conspiracy angle, but it certainly is annoying.
You, of all the people, are giving Microsoft benefit of the doubt?! Not had your coffee yet, Taco?
Nonsense. If *course* they made changes to the system to foil hackers (described as 'security' chances).
Even the article says "Microsoft has tried several tactics to discourage such hacks."
Microsoft has a *LONG* history of doing this sort of thing, going back to the Dr-Dos days. And, for them, it is a legal and legitimate response to a threat on their business model.
An arms race will ensue..
M$ is probably going to do this everytime they start a new production run. The end result however will be that they are going to end up with a whole series of slightly incompatable versions of the xbox. This will be a support nightmare for developers and will in turn lead to yet another buggy unstable M$ product that we all know and loath.
- adam
I might have bought an XBox if I could use it as a general purpose entertainment device. Now I won't buy one at all. That's an odd way of moving units and increasing your market share.
I don't think it's that insightful, but people buy stuff if they like what they can do with it. Nobody that I'm aware of has a black market XBox manufacturing plant - every piece of hardware is purchased through Microsoft. Nobody that I'm aware of without an XBox is buying XBox games. If I can't get my hypothetical XBox hacked, I'm not buying one, and I'm sure as hell not buying an XBox game or dozen.
and play your DivX, VCD's run Linux etc etc. Sure it's fun to hack the XBox, but if Microsoft insists on playing idiot games, let them. Just get a PS2..
where there's a damn about to burst, and it keeps springing leaks. All they do is stick their fingers in the leaks... eventually, they run out of fingers, and start using toes. Then the toes run out.
Eventually Microsoft will run out of digits (as in the fingers & toes). If you want to keep a system secure, you can't be reactionary. You can't wait for a leak to spring up, and then stick a finger in it.
And that's part of the whole problem with the MS culture - it's not a problem until it's exploited. Then you fix it. This is the best reason I can give you as to why not to use MS products. 'Cause they don't give a fuck until something's seriously broken. And then, it's too damn late.
-- james
Hey MS...do you even remeber that your fortunes are directly linked to the fact that your software runs on the worlds most cutomizable and hackable(in the good sense) hardware platform...hell you console is just a hack of that hardware platform...
Not quite. Keep in mind that the Xbox is sold at a loss, with gains realized on the sales of games and accessories. Every Xbox sold for hacking around would not generate the income to cover the cost of the console itself. In this case, its understandable that they would do this to discourage further losses.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
The main reason why it's security is to try to cut back on the pirating of the games that go along with having a modded X-Box so they can start to make back the initial investment of the hardware. They do this so they can stay competitive in the console market with their pricing since all hardware is sold at a loss. If people don't buy the software the money is never made back up. All companies do this, MS just gets more coverage because it's "evil".
Yes it's your product you bought, but when it's being used to screw with another market, i.e. console prices, then steps should be taken to prevent this as much as possible. I don't want to buy a 500 dollar console just because someone decided they wanted to run Linux on the Box as it's only use.
And you can do whatever you want to it... Just don't ask Microsoft (or sony, or nintendo) to give you support in doing it.
If you buy an xBox just so you can hack it and use it for some purpose other than what Microsoft intended, and then you discover that recent changes to the hardware of said xBox prevent you from doing so, who's the idiot?
As an (xBox | ps2 | gamecube) hacker, (Microsoft | Sony | Nintendo) owes you one thing only: a machine that will play fully licensed copies of the games for that particular platform.
The whole point of a console like the X-Box is that they have complete control over what they can do with it. Why on earth should they care if or if not someone uses the box to run something else on?
Face it guys, the reason the changed something was because they wanted to, and they don't give a shit about caring for the X-Box hackers compatibility. And, might I add, they shouldn't do so. If you want a PC, buy a PC - an X-Box is not a general purpose machine.
I can't stand MS anymore than most others here, but this story is absolute bullshit. Fight them where the battle is at, not just everywhere.
--
Free as in mason.
By the same token, Microsoft should be able to do anything with the hardware before you've bought it. If, for whatever reason, that prevents you from "hacking" it after you've bought it, then don't buy it!
Whats good for the gander, is good for the goose.
After reading this topic, I have to confess to feeling a little uncomfortable. Most likely it's because of the sudden urge to defend Microsoft here when all rational thought say not to, but here goes anyway.
1. As far as the changes go, all systems evolve and change as time goes on. Video game systems are no exception. When I was deciding on what videogame systems to get last year, I decided to get Gamecube and PS2. PS2 was established already and wasn't a real decision on how to go about purchasing it. I would go to the local video game store and make the purchase. Easy.
The Gamecube though was different. I didn't know how availability would be in the US and the big consideration was "hey, maybe I should import". Was it because I'd be able to get the games earlier? Yes and no. It factored in, but the real reason was that console hackers will all tell you one thing: get the system's first release. The original PS2 in Japan had region lockouts easily disabled. I believe that the early Saturns were the easy to Mod ones.
This isn't really shocking. Console modding is 50% staying one step ahead of the console maker.
2. Doesn't Microsoft have a generally good track record hardware-wise? Say what you will about the XBox, but it's certainly a pretty system when played (huge and strangely designed, but pretty). I've generally enjoyed a reasonable amount of reliability from Microsoft mice and joysticks. I don't know how it's been for anyone else.
Sorry. Just needed to get that out.
"If the good lord had intended us to walk, he wouldn't have invented roller skates." -Willy Wonka
While I do agree with you that once you own an X-Box, you should be able to do anything you want with it. But this doesn't mean that Microsoft has to make it easy for you. These boxes are sold for $199 each, less than comparable PC hardware. If people could easily modify the X-Box, then people would buy them for the purpose of having a cheap computer, rather than buy them for the purpose of playing X-Box games - which is what Microsoft wants you to do. So, Microsoft makes it harder to hack the X-Box. Too bad. The only reasonable response isn't to whine about it - it's to hack harder, or give up and don't hack the X-Box. Attacking Microsoft for attempting to prevent the unintended use of its product, which incidentally destroys its business model, is silly.
144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
If memory serves, Sony made iterative changes to the PS1 over the course of its run, which negated mod chips that worked in earlier 'generations'.
Also AFAIK, even the uber-friendly Dreamcast wouldn't boot burned CDs after a certain point in production. I believe if the date on the bottom of the dreamcast was before 09/01 (or something like that... I don't remember exactly) you were good to go, otherwise burned CDs might not work.
I don't see what the big deal is about this either... it's not like they are arresting people for trying to hack the systems, they are just making it more difficult.
Mark
what I dont expect is for them to use this and other FUD to portray someone who is using his/her own equipemnt as a theif.
Well, if he/she is chipping his/her xBox to run copied games, then he/she IS a thief.
but to do it for the sole purpose of keeping people who buy it from uning it any way they see fit is what makes them scumbags..
There are a LOT of reasons to hate Microsoft. But if you are picking this one, you need to get out more.
Why would you want to use an xBox as anything other than a console gaming device?
Everyone talks about how great an xterm a $199 xbox would make... did they not read the stories about the $199 linux boxen being sold at walmart? Go buy one of those for heaven's sake, it'll come with a keyboard and mouse too!
Oh, wait, I guess then you wouldn't be "stickin' it to the man" or something.
You do own what you purchase. If you bought an old xbox, you can still mod it. IF you bought a new xbox, you can still TRY and mod it.
What, you think MS should send a step by step guide on how to play free games on it?
The XBOX is suppose to play games. It still does.
With everything that they know now, the X-Box hackers won't take long to figure out a way to do this. It's always been this way with all consoles. Someone always finds a way.
Microsoft may have a lot of money, but they aren't going to keep modifying their manufacturing facilities unless it means saving money on production. I doubt that they are going to churn out a drastically different X-Box every month in order to thwart hacks...
I think that Linux and open source fanatics should put their money where their mouths are. Instead of complaining about Microsoft's "modifications" to the XBox, why not put together a spec for an open gaming platform?
That way everyone could pool their efforts to make the most hackable, mod-friendly gaming platform in existance. Just adopt a spec and require manufacturers to stick to it. Make a hardware-friendly gaming disto and require compliance. Of course the initial cost would be high, but soon enough alll those teens would be begging mom and dad for one for Christmas / Birthday / whatever.
Does anyone know of any efforts along these lines?
Huh? In what way does this address anything I said in my post?
Anti-piracy != security. That was my whole point. You haven't addressed that point in the least.
My gas cap can't be accessed without mangling the flap or hitting a lever inside the car. This effectively prevents people from siphoning my gas or putting stuff in my tank.
That's security.
If Honda sold me the car at a loss, but I could only fill up with a special, patented nozzle, only available at connocco that would not be security.
In what way does that bear the slightest relevance to my assertion that we aren't talking about security?
-Peter
The PS2 and XBox aren't that tightly integrated and have a bigger parts count. (Nintendo makes money on game console hardware while Sony and Microsoft don't. That's why.) But in the next generation, we should expect to see machines that are basically one big chip inside. This will be the end of modchips.
Yes, it's possible to open up an IC and modify it. The ATI/Nvidia article shows the millions of dollars of equipment needed. But even that doesn't help much. Now that everybody uses boot-time public/private key authentication, even opening up the chip won't get you the private key you'd need to make content that will load on an unmodified box. So far, no one has been able to get an unapproved program to load on an unmodified XBox.
There won't be backdoors. Read the license agreement for DVD decoder manufacturers.
The problem is that $200 hardware from WalMart is exactly that -- $200. It's probably (now this is just a guess) full of cut rate components. Where as from numerous postings of its components across the net, we know that the X-box contains some pretty decent hardware. Also, it's being sold below cost (or at least it -was-), so the worth of the components is actually > $200.
mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
But the only people they are going to lose are customers are:
1) People who want to use their XBox to play FREE games.
2) People who want to hack their Xbox for other reasons.
Obviously they don't care about #1.
What I'm surprised about is that people here think they care about #2. What are there... maybe 500,000 people who MIGHT buy an XBox just to hack it? 0.5% of the market? Microsoft wasn't trying to break into the "hackable computer market", they're trying to reach into the 3rd type of customer:
3) People who pay real $$$ for games.
Yes, obviously the major motivation is to cut software piracy, which is a pretty dubious usage of the word 'security'. On the other hand, another motivation is to increase security for online games - if the box isn't hacked, then games can be more secured against cheaters. Personally, I quite like the idea of playing on a gaming service where people can't cheat (or at least, not as easily).
The rub is that they make up the money on the games (after all how much does a game ACTUALLY cost to make?)
This comment is terribly uninformed.
The short answer: it costs millions of dollars to make a game.
The physical medium (the DVD and package) may only cost a few dollars to reproduce, but the data on that disc costs millions to develop.
Actually I used to work in the games industry (okay that was quite sometime ago) so, yeah I know how much it costs.
But you're forgetting that once you've written it, it's done almost all of your costs are done then. Pressing the DVDs, making the boxes doesn't cost much at all. The market is huge. BUT there is something you're forgetting - Microsost CHARGE all the other developers to get their game onto the XBox. This doesn't cost Microsoft a dime, and they make money on ever one sold.
Honestly this is how the console business works - that's why consoles are cheap. This isn't just how Microsoft's XBox works it's the same for Nintendo and Sony.
MS should be able to do anything that doesn't violate (antitrust) law.
Life is too short to proofread.