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Nokia 6650, Super 3G Phone
Ch_Omega writes "Nokia has announced the 6650, which in short, is the first phone ever to meet the 3G-standard! It combines GSM and WCDMA into a single handset, then throws in a VGA still camera and video camera with sound. More info on Infosync and and Nokia forums!"
3G has been hit the hardest when the economy went south... how will 3G gain a foothold in the land of disposable cell phones?
Finally, the beginning of the end for IPV4!
I live in the US. Crap.
They're going to be soooo expensive.
Reminds me of an old Spitting Image sketch featuring a puppet of Alexander Graham Bell and his mum. Went something like this..
*Phone Rings*
Mum: Hello, '2'. (quoting her phone number)
AGB: (disguising voice) Hello lady, what colour knickers you got on?
Mum: Alexander, I know that's you!
Made me laugh anyway.
I think that 3G's time won't come until PANs become the norm. I'd love to have my cellphone talk to my PDA for its phonebook, and for my PDA to use my cellphone's transmitter to access the web, and for both of them to use my pager-sized solid-state drive for storage. I'm just not sure I need to watch movies on a 1" screen.
-- Hamsterboy
From the website:
My Ericsson T68 with the battery bar at half:
I've never had a Nokia even go close to this phone. I get about 5 hours of talk time on my phone, and I've verified it's battery reporting function too.
I'll stick with Sony Ericsson
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
It's interesting that Nokia is positioning this phone, seemingly, as a "multimedia" phone vs. a communication tool. Their website seems to emphasize "movie making" and picture taking, but not better communication or interactivity with your office. However, I'm wondering who'd actually buy it for those features rather than just take a digital camera with them. I know that I'm a big fan of having a phone that communicates really well and a camera that takes pictures really well, not a convergence device. I'll probably sing a different tune in a couple of years when some magic device takes care of all of my pocket garbage, but until then give me a phone which handles one thing and handles it really, really well.
Frankly, this is plain old blah. I want my cell phone small and simple and cheap, but capable of interacting with PDAs. Then, if I want all that multi-media crap, I'll use my PDA - which happens to be a much better platform for that functionality.
So - gimme a Bluetooth-enabled Tungsten and a small 3G-device, and I might think about it. For now, I'll stick to my regular GSM that I can upgrade to GPRS if I (want|need) to.
Stop the brainwash
It's okay, if you look at
this
you'll notice you really don't want to be anywhere near this phone. Apparently it's "connect anywhere / to anything" ability has rather a microwave-oven effect on the people beyond the lens of its camera.
cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
Why does every new device come with a built in camera now?
Is it because people actually want them? Or just because it is now a really cheap feature to throw in so that you don't appear to be technologically behind your competition?
The cheapo cameras that make their way into these gadgets are treated like "hot items" at Christmas... once you show your friends that you have it, you never bother to use it again.
camera, sound, ten frames per second, 4096-color display, up to 128 kbps and you can even make a phone call! ...but they forgot the coffee machine!
My spirit takes a journey through my mind...
All the 3G in the world won't change the fact that 99.9% of cell-phone conversations are moronic anyway:
What we need, for example, is technology that will summarily strangle anybody who actually uses a cell phone. That, I think we'll all agree, will improve quality of life for everybody, just like Jesus meant for technology to do.
Until then, I'll just go on tripping morons who walk down the street yapping into their fists and bumping into each other.
"Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive" -- hey, that's me!
Will these phones only be able to send video that you've recorded with the phone? Or will you be able to upload images to them? For instance, I'd love to be able to beam nude images of the Brazilian women's soccer team to people from my computer using this phone. I can't seem to find a data sheet which talks about the upload capability.
--
What happens when you outlaw guns
Everything invented now seems to be for the sake of p0rn or entertainment. Just think, these phone probably could be setup to send pics directly to webserver. And you thought you didn't have enough upskirt photos already. You could probably remote control these from a computer and set them up all over the place and take pictures every minute or so.
Seriously though, there are two sides to this. You could be being watched at any point in time and not know it (well, we are right now but I mean up close), or this could be the start of a turning point in moving more countries in the world towards democracy. When you can't hide what you are doing to your people you tend to be a little more scared of doing something bad. What are they going to do, ban cell phones?
Shango
--ngoy
Nokia have (here in Belgium) a very good reputation.
IMHO they deserve it. Good phones, well designed.
But Europe's mobile phone market is very sick.
The operators paid heavily for near-useless licences.
They cannot get WCDMA to work (first pilot in Finland was cancelled).
They cannot change to CDMA2000 (against their license terms).
They cannot sell or trade their licenses.
Basically, Europe's telecom regulators have screwed it and lost their world lead with GSM.
For Nokia, this is very serious: Europe is their main market.
Look at Japan: CDMA2000 got 2m subscribers, WCDMA got 150,000. In the same time period.
Qualcomm is looking like a very interesting company. They will find themselves in a monopoly position.
Not because they have twisted anyone's arms. Simply because their technology is better.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Unfortunately, I'll bet it won't be cheap at all. I have GPRS on my phone, and bluetooth connect from my PowerBook when I'm mobile. But I have to use it sparingly because my phone service provider charges by the MB, and it can get very expensive.
If 3G can be charged by the minute, or even better at a fixed rate like Cable and ADSL, then it stands a chance at being widely used and accepted. If not, then they will just price themselves out of a market.
I fail to see what is so funny about this, but I did't get it.
About pop3, I have a sony ericsson t68i and it has a pop3 email client. I tried to configure it but I have some problems in the wireless data configuration. For some reason it wants use pop3 over wap, when I just want a regular dial-up connection (in operator (vodafone portugal) wap is about 10x as expensive as a regular data call, go figure that)
But it supports email download (full or just the header), smtp sending and lots more I haven't got the time to explore fully.
Plus it is very small, with a reasonable color screen, and the digital camera that plugs in it is ok for 640x480 daylight photos. I can send pictures as MMSs, but these are expensive and more important, I don't know anyone with a MMS capable phone to send them. And as MMS the photos are sent as 140x80 or something like that.
GSM 900/1800/1900, IR, bluetooth, and a a calendar that at first sight is not that much different from my palm m100 calendar.
Great little phone. If only I could get specs and program for it, I would make a Goo clone taking input from the digital camera.
Oh my god. You have no clue do you? WCDMA is the 3GPP standard that UMTS uses. It is certainly 3G. Peak bandwidth of 2 megabits/second qualifies.
"With Nokia, xx10 is the 900,1800 freq. so basically Everywhere else but U.S. xx50 means the U.S. version. I learned this the hard way when I was in the Philippines a few years ago I had the 8210 which has an infrared port -- when I came back to the U.S. I got an 8250, but it didn't have the infrared port. They dumb things down for the U.S. market, and then they jack the prices...Good strategy if you ask me."
You are correct that xx50 used to mean that it was an US verison, but only on earlier phones that had the xx10 designation in Europe. This way of defining versions of different Nokia models, cannot be transfered to the phones with x650 modelnumbers(7650, 3650, etc), or any of Nokias triband phones. The 3650, is f.eks. a triband GSM phone targeted towards both the European and Asian markets, as well as the US one. 6610 does also have triband, and nothing should prevent it from being used/sold in the US, as oposed to the older dualband-phones(900MHz/1800MHz) such as the 8210 and 5110, where they needed to make an own version for the US 1900MHz networks
The x650 model designation, simply means that it uses the Series 60, symbian-based OS, and have imaging(vga camera) capabillities.
I have IRC running on mine. Now with a color display, maybe I can use BitchX. :)
Why the hell do mobile phone companies keep harping on about their integrated cameras. Come on, think about it can you honestly imagine even a contrived situation when a mobile phone camera can do something that a disposable or digital camera can't do just as well if not better. I get tired of it. My current mobile phone is a Nokia 7110. I plan to continue using this thing until it falls apart: predictive text messaging, vibration function and even WAP is in there, and I got it dirt cheap too because it was already discontinued when I got mine. And I don't even use the WAP.
This isn't really ideal I suppose, though the manufacturers really need to just focus on more useful things. Broadband-speed, permanent near flat rate wireless access would rock: some other poster in a different story mentioned that his student brother/friend/acquaintance was working in Japan and could stream MP3's off his home machine and off his mobile phone on the way to work (and this guy was a student so he's hardly loaded). I want to be able to do that. Then there's all this fuss about personal area networks: you've got a mobile phone in your shirt pocket, connected to the internet and you can check your email and the like on your PDA. Or if you're in the car you can have a headset which uses a wireless bluetooth link to let you talk to people behind the wheel or initiate calls by voice: I want that too. All of these things would seriously rock.
But for crying out loud, as for these worthless gimmicks take your damn FM radios and digital cameras and integrated mobile phone/PDA jobs and shove them.
WCDMA is a component of UMTS, the world wide 3G telecommunications standard being put together under the auspices of the ITU.
CDMA2000 is US PCS technology company Qualcomm's rival 3G standard.
The reason for CDMA2000 is primarily because Qualcomm wants to keep control over CDMA technology, and because UMTS has limited capabilities to integrate with old cdmaOne type networks such as that used by Sprint PCS and Verizon. It's also strictly a one-airinterface-technology standard.
KMSMA (WWBD?)
While all manufactures now offer 900/1800/1900
phones now, Nokia does just 2-band leaving
out north american customers.
"3G doesn't seem useful on a tiny cell display like that. Browse the web? The most text you could fit is 32 columns by 7 rows or so. My Palm Vx is 160x160 and I don't like reading text on that. This is even smaller."
That's a bad thing? I have an Ericsson T68i, and I've played on the web a bit with it. That tiny screen means that the sites you go to have to get do to bidness. (At least the ones supported by it...)
Go to a news page? You get a logo, and a one-line summaries of the interesting news stories. Click one, and you get the story.
Go to a news page on the web? You get a 'portal' like site where you have to hunt around to find what you're looking for, banner ads, popups, and if you don't have Flash installed you're likely to be pestered by it.
I'm not saying I'd prefer to read the news on my cell phone, but if I could get to the point that fast on my computer those dudes'd save me a lot of time.
Oh, and as for video, it'd work fine. You can watch video just fine at 160 by 120. Just to give you an example: I once took an episode of Quantum Leap, captured it, compressed it down to 160 by 120 @ 7fps and a really low bitrate so that it'd fit on a 64-meg flash card. I then played it on my PocketPC while on a flight to LA. Guess what? Not only did the episode translate just fine, but the guy next to me wouldn't stop looking over my shoulder.
It's not the type of thing you throw on your big-screen, but on a portable device it works just dandy at that resolution.
Nokia is certainly not the first phone to operate on 3G. It isn't even the first phone to work on WCDMA 3G.
For those who don't know, the ITU defined a set of 3 CDMA-based standards for 3G; WCDMA, CDMA2000, and TD-SCDMA.
CDMA2000 services have been rolling out for quite some time. There are currently over 16 million subscribers (Korea alone accounts for 12 million and Japan with 2.14 million.) This is the standard rolling out in the US with SprintPCS and Verizon.
WCDMA on the other hand has very few users, on the order of 0.13 million.
Panasonic WCDMA device launched in September 2001 by NTT DoCoMo obviously beat this Nokia. NEC has a couple models launched in October 2001 for WCDMA as well.
Now, most CDMA2000 devices are 1x (low bandwidth first iteration.) Full blown 1xEV-DO (2 Mbps) devices were launched a while ago for the Korea market. These include LG LG-KH5000 in May 2002 and most recently the Samsung SCH-V300 launched in September 2002.
See 3G Today for a very extensive list of 3G devices.
The world is neither black nor white nor good nor evil, only many shades of CowboyNeal.
While Telco's aren't super stocks anymore, they are still moving on, most of the rest of the planet has suffered less in the last year because they didn't have as big a bubble that burst and haven't faced enough corruption.
GSM and 2G exploded in Europe and Asia well before it took off in the US.
This won't fail because the US doesn't do it.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
I'm glad you are impatient, but I'm afraid you're going to have to wait a bit longer. After all, this posting is about the cosmetic launch of one of the first commercial WCDMA phones (excl. FOMA). Cosmetic, since the phone itself won't be in stores until somewhere in the 1st half of 2003. But at least we get to see the slideware already.
Before WCDMA will be launched massively, some things need to be sorted out. There need to be phones of course, or any network launch is useless. And some mandatory features like roaming (shown last year between Vodafone Spain and J-Phone Japan) and WCDMA to GSM handover (hand off) are a must. Last week we saw reports of the first demonstrations of such a handover in the Telia/Hi3G network in Sweden, with a Sony Ericsson handset. And we saw a network launched (Mobilkom Austria). But what is such a launch worth when there are no handsets. That said, it's excellent news that Nokia already shows us the slides.
CDMA2000 has been launched earlier, yes, since it's a relatively small upgrade from IS-95. On the other hand, upgrading from GSM to WCDMA is a revolution in the radio access network. If EU operators are looking at any alternatives to WCDMA, it would be EDGE, a natural upgrade from GSM, delivering throughput in excess of 384 kbps and therefore labeled "3G", and somewhat behind WCDMA in network development. No phones announced either. Will probably fly high in the growing American GSM markets.
The situation in Japan is particularly curious, since they're looking at 3 operators each deploying a not-interoperable wireless access technology. There KDDI's CDMA2000 1x (offering 144 kbps), NTT DoCoMo's proprietary FOMA system (a WCDMA dialect), and J-Phone's true WCDMA. KDDI appears to be winning, which is not because CDMA2000 is technologically superior, but because there's variety and choice in phones.
Let's see where WCDMA is going, there's a big test for one of the keenest WCDMA investors coming up soon.
Q: Whats with all the cameras?
A: transferring images uses up minutes. or kilobytes, if you're metered that way.
This AC is right on the money.
SMS, if you remember recent history, was never intended by the networks to be a killer app. However it had such overwhelming grassroots support (albeit mostly outside the USA) that the networks have climbed on the bandwagon and now produced this: a way to charge you for as much bandwidth as possible without much meaningful communication occuring.
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
Depends on the Nokia phone :)
I have the Nokia 6310i, which has absolutely amazing battery life when running in the USA:
Talk time: 4h - 7h 30 min
Standby time: up to 17 days
Of course, the phone isn't very fancy. No color screen or anything. Just a slimmer 61xx-style phone, but with all the stuff you really want: GPRS, Bluetooth, WAP.
Of course, the phone isn't very fancy. No color screen or anything. Just a slimmer 61xx-style phone, but with all the stuff you really want: GPRS, Bluetooth, WAP.
:) (Fully charged is about 6h-6:30)
Well, I got a nice color screen so I'll take my 1 hour shorter battery life
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Basically what has happened in Europe is that Telecom companies have paid about $90 Billion for the spectrum and rights to roll out 3G services but are *only* allowed to use W-CDMA. The problem is it doesn't work yet, and who knows when it will. Meanwhile in Japan, South America, and elsewhere they are using CDMA2000-1X and they've signed up millions of users.
The Eurocrat regulators' stance seems to be "na na na na, I can't hear you, na na na na na na na" while telecom company debt builds up to the point where it may crush some companies before they ever get to actually roll out any 3G services.
You think 3G camera prohes won't change that?
A: Look what I just did in the terlet!
B: HUH HUH HUH!
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
That's a bit like saying, back in 1995, that 'Linux is doomed - Windows has more users, more desktops, high economies of scale, ...' Of course, back then Linux was not really ready for prime time the way it is now, with nicer GUIs, installers, more apps, etc.
W-CDMA is not really finished yet, as other posts have pointed out - NTT DoCoMo launched too early with a sort-of W-CDMA, but its phones didn't have any roaming onto the local 2G networks, so you had to buy a large expensive phone to get tiny coverage in a couple of big cities. Not surprisingly, it failed.
The real test will come when W-CDMA phones have integrated roaming onto 2G networks (mainly GSM) - only then is there any chance of serious uptake. These phones will have a much bigger potential market than CDMA2000, so as long as the phones and networks work well, and have good services at reasonable prices, it's possible that W-CDMA will gradually come to dominate. But only time will tell...
My T68 is being repaired for the second time in a month - it goes into a state where it refuses to make or receive calls, mainly on GSM-1800 networks. Along with the frequent crashes and spontaneous switching-off in my pocket (even though keypad lock is on), this is making me less than impressed with SonyEricsson...
If the Nokia 7650 wasn't so chunky I'd buy one like a shot, and I may still do just to get phone software that is faster and more stable.
My T68 is being repaired for the second time in a month - it goes into a state where it refuses to make or receive calls, mainly on GSM-1800 networks. Along with the frequent crashes and spontaneous switching-off in my pocket (even though keypad lock is on), this is making me less than impressed with SonyEricsson...
I'd ask for a replacement phone. I know 4 people that have T68's and have never had any problem. There is a bug with the keylock though, and you can turn the phone off. I've done it before, but forgot what the key combo was.. I remember thinking it was really stupid. I turned AutoLock on, and it went away (go figure) and doesn't do it anymore. The only gripe I have with the phone is that the clip that holds the battery in is easy to pry open when you are digging in your pocket. I've popped my battery of twice catching pens and what not on it.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
I'm trying for a replacement phone but unfortunately I bought it on a UK network that doesn't make this easy. I usually get phones through Orange who have an excellent replacement policy as part of their insurance deal (free in the first year) - you just get a new phone by courier and send the old one back.