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BSD Still Won't Run on IBM ThinkPads?
omega_cubed asks: "'You've successfully installed FreeBSD, now your computer is going to hang at boot up!' -- That was what I just recently suffered. I've been running Mandrake on my ThinkPad X20 for almost a year. But the lack of high speed internet connection over the summer prevented me from keeping up with the various patches/updates. Many services--sendmail, apache, etc.--were shutdown one by one because of security vulnerabilities. Recently I decided that instead of trying to catch all those patches I missed in the last few months, I might just as well do a clean install of FreeBSD. I've done what I think was all the preparations necessary: I backed-up all my files, checked all the hardwares for possible conflicts (on FreeBSD.org) and supports, downloaded the ISO image. And I decided the computer should be able to take it. Unfortunately, I didn't come across the old slashdot article reporting a possible conflict between IBM ThinkPad's BIOS and FreeBSD's filesystem. So last night, after much struggling, I installed FreeBSD. It finished, rebooted, and the computer now just hangs at bootup (here's a more detailed report on what happened). It doesn't even go into BIOS. Does anyone have experience dealing with this? Is there anyway I can update the BIOS? The diskettes provided IBM were not able to boot the computer, and I am at a loss here. Thanks."
if you read the post more carefully, you would see that the machine cant even reach the bios. Might make installing something else a bit hard ..
Not being able to get into the BIOS or updating the BIOS has nothing to do with the OS installed. If you still think it does, then take the hard drive out and try to flash the BIOS.
The answer is here.
You might want to remove the hard drive, and see what happens when you boot it without a hard drive in. Maybe this will give you some sort of clue on what is wrong with it.
If your absolutely have to, buy a 2.5" hard drive adapter for your desktop machine. You can then format the laptop hard drive from that.
If the Hard disk partition is really the cause, try removing the HD before booting floppies. With the drive removed, there is no partition labeled 165, hence no hibernate.
If the floppies still don't work, you have more to worry about than the HD.....
If they do work, flash the BIOS, and be happy on your way...
good luck!
10b||~10b -- aah, what a question!
...i really dont like seeing posts that feed the *BSD is Dying trolls.
If I remember correctly, I think I blew away the restore partition before the installation, but I didn't screw around with the BIOS at all.
Am very curious as to what might be causing your problem.
And explain your situation, see what they suggest.
Quite simply that is not an acceptable state for a piece of hardware you paid a good chunk of cash to be in, without any hardware problems (eg it was that way when it left the factory), with no recorse offered. I would go so far as to say you could sue them the cost of a comparable laptop if worst came to worst.
I live in a giant bucket.
Head for the nearest IBM service center and show em the laptop. This doesnt sound like a FreeBSD problem.. hey, the same kernel that booted into installation is used to boot the OS. And if you cant boot from a floppy try removing the hdd, still cant boot? International Business Machines is at fault and not FreeBSD.
P.S. To the moderators of slashdot. How in the world did this posting ever make it?? Tone down on the free beer for a while...
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
I have an IBM ThinkPad T21 and was able to get Windows 2000 and FreeBSD on the hard drive (either combined or separately). The only thing that I needed to do was to download an updated firmware that fixed the issue with the Thinkpad BIOS and the BSD partition type numbers.
The only two things that I can't get to work under FreeBSD (starting from 4.5-RELEASE through 4.7-RC) is the Intel/Lucent Mini-PCI card (10/100 Eth + modem) and the integrated audio. I don't have any CardBus cards that I need to use with the laptop, so no worries for me there.
A couple of things to try is to update the firmware to the latest version, check to see if there are any hard drive firmware updates, and try to disable anything that you don't really need in the BIOS. Did that with mine and it works great. No if only I can chuck Win2K off of the hard drive permanently (I need to use the Shiva VPN client and other Windows-only tools for work... grr).
I've been running FreeBSD on my x20 for a little over 5 months now -- Type 2662.
I made a converter between laptop and standard desktop IDE cables, so that I could format the drive if it failed to boot properly -- but it did.
Install the most recent BIOS & controller upgrades and go to it.
Rod Taylor
BSD experience is much more useful for someone with commercial UNIX aspirations.
There is no single OS that rules, and learning that will be the best lesson you EVER learn.
"Total domination is bad. The Microsoft dominance already badly misled people about how to choose systems. Instead of 'what tool do I use for the job' it's 'well it was shipped with the box'. Linux is a tool, Windows is a tool and so are numerous other systems. It's really important people go back to looking for the right tool for the job. That will never always be Linux. No single tool can do everything well." Alan Cox
I've ran fbsd on a couple thinkpads 390 serives, A21m (which is similar to the laptop in this article) I had no problems with either of them. I even had the DVD player up and running perfectly running ogle. Other people in my dept had equal success in getting everything running.
Might want to check your APM settings in the BIOS. with how to suspsend your lappy.
Slashdot # 199661 the number that's the same upside down and right side up
Did you try installing NetBSD? It'll run on your toaster (just kidding - well not yet anyway).
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Why would lack of DSL/Cable keep you from getting updates?
I have a 56k modem and I get all my updates just fine.
Let's put your booting troubles aside for a minute. I need you to answer a question for me:
But the lack of high speed internet connection over the summer prevented me from keeping up with the various patches/updates. Many services--sendmail, apache, etc.--were shutdown one by one because of security vulnerabilities. Recently I decided that instead of trying to catch all those patches I missed in the last few months, I might just as well do a clean install of FreeBSD.
So, let me get this straight: You have a perfectly good operating system that you're pretty familiar with, but it has a few security holes that you didn't (at one time) have the bandwidth to fix them, even though a bunch of one-off fixes, when downloaded one by one over time, wouldn't really have taken much effort or time to keep up with at all.
So, instead of upgrading your Mandrake install, which worked perfectly fine, or patching your install to eliminate security holes now that you have bandwidth, you'd rather destroy all that customization and work you probably put into your installation to run an operating system that you quite clearly have not researched enough, which will probably also get deleted once you lose track of security updates for it.
My question is this: are you retarded?
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Eek... You seem to be a bit confused. What's on the HD on those Compaqs is just the BIOS setup program, a piece of software used to tweak BIOS settings and other low-level system settings. Note that that program is also often called the CMOS setup program (because it saves its settings in the CMOS), or just the BIOS (by those who aren't really paying attention).
The BIOS itself is still in ROM. If the BIOS was only on disk, you'd have a Catch-22; the BIOS would be needed to load itself from disk. (Well, I guess the system could have a second BIOS in ROM to load the first one from disk, but then, what would be the point of the BIOS on disk if there was already one in ROM?)
Anyway, while you can't "get into the BIOS [setup]" on those Compaqs without the hard drive connected, you can update the BIOS by booting from a flash-update disk. The BIOS setup program, although probably matched to the particular version of the BIOS on the ROM, doesn't need to be there just to flash the ROM.
Now, the problem with these particular IBM BIOSes is that, as soon as they're powered on, they see what they interpret to be a suspend-to-disk partition on the HD and try to load it to RAM and run it, without giving the user the opportunity to ignore the partition, or to run the bios setup program, etc. With the system in that state, not only can the user not boot off a floppy to repartition, but they can't even boot off a floppy to flash a new BIOS that doesn't try to resume like that onto the system.
Now, yes, you need a working BIOS if you want to boot off a floppy disk to flash-update your BIOS. And if for some reason the copy of the BIOS on the ROM won't work with disks anymore, the only solution is to yank the BIOS ROM chip off the motherboard and either fix it with a programmer and put it back on, or replace it with another chip.
But when you think about it, as the 2nd parent post suggests, if IBM releases a new BIOS for the malfunctioning systems that doesn't try to do the resuming, it's still possible to install it by unplugging the HD, booting off a flash-update floppy through the old BIOS (which will work fine as long as the hard drive with incompatible partitioning isn't attached) and doing the update, and then plugging in the hard drive again.
Any fairly new PC-land techies out there reading this still confused? I imagine that this particular hole exists in a lot of these peoples' backgrounds nowadays. So, it's time for:
Pre-boot PC Software Guts for Newbies
Terminology time.
(Assume I'm talking about x86 "IBM-compatible" PCs, unless I say otherwise.)
BIOS stands for Basic Input-Output System, which is a fancy name for a bunch of standardized routines that can be called to do things with the hardware (everything from hard drive access to keyboard input and more), and includes the Power-On Self Test (POST), the first thing that runs when you turn on your system (the thing that, if all the tests are passed, tries to load an operating system, and if not, brings you oh-so-useful error messages like the infamous "No keyboard attached. Press [F1] to continue.") Usually the BIOS routines have minimal functionality and sacrifice performance for compatibility. Also, these routines aren't really designed with modern operating system features (like memory management and multitasking) in mind. Because of this, once the POST passes control to the operating system, virtually all post-DOS ones only use the BIOS routines for as long as it takes to load more advanced drivers from the hard disk, and then they start using those drivers to run the hardware instead. The PC BIOS spec is very crufty; it contains a lot of routines that don't make any sense for even later DOS-era systems. (e.g. Bonus points for anyone who can explain how to get their post-2001 BIOS to display a "No ROM Basic, System Halted" message, and quadruple bonus points for someone who can produce a post-2001 BIOS that has a working ROM Basic of some sort hacked on. =) ). The BIOS is typically stored on a ROM (read-only memory) chip, although in recent times it's usually a flash-updateable ROM chip, so maybe the term "ROM" is a bit misleading.
CMOS stands for Complementary Metal-Oxide Semiconductor (if I remember correctly), which is a type of memory technology used in computers; but on PCs, CMOS has also misleadingly come to refer to a particular small hunk of battery-backed CMOS used to store some system settings. This kind of system data area is much more sensibly referred to as PRAM (Parameter RAM) on Macs and NVRAM (Non-Volatile RAM) on more proprietary unix workstations.
thats why he should put solaris x86 on his laptop instead of BSD.
someone who can't figure out how to use google and how to find the FAQ's.
Thanks to all who contributed useful comments. I am currently in the process of looking for a spare harddrive since the computer still won't boot with the HDD pulled out, which means that I might need to find some time to go home, dig up my desktop, and get a different partition scheme on the harddrive. Right now I am hoping that borrowing the HDD from some windows user would allow me to boot somehow and update the bios.
There's still one question:
I searched google groups and couldn't find the answer, because I heard that newer versions of BIOS might not be better in this case: i.e. IBM might have reintroduced the BIOS bug. If anyone has an X20 working, can they tell me which version BIOS to get? (I can always try them all... {= ).
Regarding to some questions posted:
If you'd followed the links, you would have realized that my primary goal WAS to install Debian. And FreeBSD is just a sidetrack since I will need to flush my system anyway. There's some really bad RPM incongruencies on my computer when it was running mandrake, and many things won't run properly.
And then there's the question as to why would I need a high speed internet to update my computer. There's nothing preventing me from getting connected: except for an ISP. I don't plan to get service from an ISP and pay 30 dollars for the two months I will be at home to use dialup. My parents run American Online, there's no way I can tap into that resource. Furthermore, there's the problem with those Winmodems. In short, without a lan connection, I have no connection at all.
W
--
werd smiler should've tried OpenBSD
Engineers also speak PDE, only in a different dialect.
Id love to find 2 of them for a similar reason, but never seem to have any luck..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
My 765L did fine.. though I've not bothered to get sound working yet.
Yes its old, but it does the job so why buy a new one.
Now if i could just put in a larger HD with out the machine freaking out.
---- Booth was a patriot ----