Palm Introduces Affordable Zire

the beava writes "Palm has officially announced the release of their latest handheld, the Zire. At $99 dollars (retail), it looks like they're trying to market this thing to people like parents and children. " Not a bad looking unit for the price.

Comments

No backlight

[Howwie]

This thing doesn't have a backlight.

Re:No backlight

[c.derby]

yes, but the m105 was originally more expensive. it only dropped to the $99 range when it was discontinued. btw, if you know what avantgo is, you know where to get it. if you don't have it and dont' know what it is, do you really miss it? besides, this unit only has 2MB. avantgo would only fill up the "entry level" amount of memory. yes, i think that the lack of backlight is a big mistake. i could never own (another) pda without a backlight. but remember, this unit isn't for the pda connoisseur. its for the k-mart, target, walmart crowd. an "affordable" palm handlheld to get them hooked on the technology.

parents and children?

[tps12]

Parents and children don't need handhelds. I was all excited about handhelds a few years ago, but these days the only people still using them are CS grad students (not that there's anything wrong with that). I only keep mine around because my watch broke. Once the novelty wears off (and it has), the ability to play Asteroids at a movie theater isn't all that great a selling point. Palm is on its way down, and PDAs will be remembered as the pet rock of the late 90's and early 00's.

Re:parents and children?

[shri]

Electronic shopping lists could be a real blessing for parents, specially those of young kids. Imagine putting your shopping list into your palm, then either syncing it with the grocery stores website or walking into the grocery store and beaming the shopping list to the store's computer. You can then sit at the coffee shop (more business for the store!) while someone packs your groceries for you and brings them over.

I am still hoping that GPS prices fall and there is a GPS that can plug into the Palm.. or perhaps a bluetooth based location detection system. This would allow you to program a 4 dimensional alarm system (location (X/Y/Z) + time). Imagine a $200 device which could be programmed as follows ... "when you're out to lunch and walk past the video store, pick up DVDs for the weekend".

Pity no one listens to me. :)

Re:parents and children?

[Cutriss]

Electronic shopping lists could be a real blessing for parents, specially those of young kids. Imagine putting your shopping list into your palm, then either syncing it with the grocery stores website or walking into the grocery store and beaming the shopping list to the store's computer. You can then sit at the coffee shop (more business for the store!) while someone packs your groceries for you and brings them over.

Probably won't happen, for the same reason that a lot of good things don't happen - money.

If I program my list into my PDA and sync it to the grocery store, I probably about brands enough to also record which brand of something I want. That leaves it open to interpretation. Imagine the nightmare of having to resolve vaguely shopping items with a database of similar matches...50 times (an assumed average number of items for a shopping trip).

This means that, ultimately, certain brands would likely get weeded out, as they'd lose their shelf visibility, and thus their marketability. Price would soon be the only attracting option for those purchases...and you'd probably be a lot less inclined to invest in the purchase since you probably don't know the brand name (since you were never in the store to see it).

Also, stores don't just put on sales to attract customers to shop there. Sometimes it's a calculated risk. Let's say (fake numbers) that I have a $0.20 margin on a gallon of milk. If I lower the price by $0.10, and it sells three times as much, I've still made money. Most of us have been in college before...What happens when you see "8 for a dollar" ramen noodles? You stock up, right? If you don't ever go in the store to see the prices, you'll likely be a lot less inclined toward impulse purchasing of stuff like that. Also in the impulse-purchasing category, you wouldn't see some other things in the store that you would consider purchasing, only to let it sit in your pantry or fridge.

It's unfortunate that all this is the case, of course. It's rather likely that all these boosted sales would be outweighed by the cost-savings of implementing a fully-electronic store. Logistics would be a one-time expense...you'd need fewer staff...and costs would go down. Naturally, though, the corps only see things in terms of profit and growth...

Re:parents and children?

[ChaosDiscord]

Once the novelty wears off (and it has), the ability to play Asteroids at a movie theater isn't all that great a selling point.

If that's why people are buying PDAs, of course it's going to wear off. And I do know a few people who bought PDAs for novelty value, or purchased one without quite knowing what they would use it for. Sure enough, these people stopped using their PDAs within a few months.

On the other hand, I knew exactly what I wanted a PDA for. I had been carrying a small datebook and pen with me. This significantly helped keep my life organized. It also provided me with a place to write notes (work todo items, shopping lists, reminders to email people information). I also kept contact information for various people, mostly phone numbers, in it.

On the down side, every year I got a new datebook. Any information I wanted from the previous datebook had to be manually copied to the new one. If my datebook was lost or damaged, any information in it was lost. The physical book didn't make it easy to reorganize the information, to collect the scattered notes to identify which are still relevant and which aren't.

I needed a smart datebook. And so I bought a Palm III.

My Palm was exactly what I needed. Appointments actually beeped to remind me. I could easily reorganize information without my address book turning into a message of scratched out information or pages thin from repeated erasing. I have effectively unlimited scratch paper for notes which I use to keep all sorts of useful information.

I'm on my third Palm (III -> V because I was sick of replacing the batteries and wanted a smaller palm, V -> Vx because I was starting to read e-books and needed more space). I use my Palm several times per day and I really value it. I know a number of people who feel the same way about their Palms.

PDAs are not just a fad. Sure, some people got them because of the fad, but I don't care about those people (in this context at least). There is a real market of people who value a good PDA. These people are the ones that continue to buy Palm (or PalmOS devices) over the various Windows based PDAs because they know that Palm got it right. Mostly people following the fad, people who don't know what they want, are drawn to the shiny Windows based PDAs. Many serious PDA users see no need for Palms to upgrade to ARM processors. Sure, more processing power would be nice, but my Palm does everything I need. I don't need games, I don't need video, I don't need MP3 support. I need a smart datebook, address book, and notepad that I can back up on my computer. The Palm does exactly this. I'm really frustrated at the superficial media which keeps reporting "Look at all of the advances in Windows PDAs, Palm hasn't advanced at all. Palm is on its way down." I know many serious Palm users, but I've never seen a serious PDA user with a Windows PDA. Serious users know that Palm gets it right, and Microsoft focuses on superficial glitz.

Re:parents and children?

[legLess]

Blockquothe the poster:

I use my Palm several times per day and I really value it. I know a number of people who feel the same way about their Palms.

Does this even need a punchline? :)

The one killer app I see...

[Docrates]

Is for those supermarket and logistics people that get to buy $800-$1200 rugged versions of palm for their inventory and tracking applications. Somehow I think that 10 cheap palm devices last longer than one expensive tough one.

Re:The one killer app I see...

[Faggot]

Put a barcode reader on this, and you'll have proprietors of even small-time grocers in the (ahem) palm of your hand. Especially for the price of a few tanks of petrol. :)

parents /or/ chidren

[Bandman]

so just who exactly is /not/ a parent or a child?
We are ALL children of SOMEBODY...

it's probably too early....

Geez

[ksplatter]

No Matter How cheap they make those things I'll never get one again. I need a to-do list to remind me to update my calander to set off an alarm when I need to write a memo. Just a waste of my time.

And no colo[u]r screen ...

[Draoi]

Thank goodness ...

2 Meg of ram?

[TheLoneCabbage]

With only 2 meg of RAM it's not going to be worth much more than an organizer. And you can buy those now for $20 (and some look much cooler than this).

Personaly for my tastes just sell me the husk, and let me buy the memmory as an option. I would think that a unit with NO memmory would be cheaper to manufacture and the modularity would allow it to have a wider market apeal (for the same manufactureing line).

Re:2 Meg of ram?

[TheLoneCabbage]

Like I said, as an organizer it will do just fine. But little else.

Map and news paper cost me $5 at a news stand (especialy in Manhattan, and even then the maps are usually free).

I'm talking about real funtionality. If you had a low powered computer strapped to your hip at all times what would you want it to do? You have to justify spending $100, when $10 will do.

Beep when you had an apointment? OK, but there are hundreds of lowcost devices that already do that.

Keep phone numbers? See above.

Scribble notes? I prefer papper thankyou. It's more reliable (it only breaks when I get it wet, but so does a PDA)

What I really would want are things like:

Translators
e-books (think library, or tech manuals, while you are on a job)
wireless internet (IM, EMAIL, syncronicity with an Exchange server)
Educational software (for those rediculously long trips)
Telnet/http connections to a remote server (serve maintenance)

For the most part, you need much more expensive units to do this. And for the life of me I don't know why! It should be a cake walk to build a system that could let you plug in a wireless network device (isn't that why we invented USB?), or more memmory.

Why wouldn't it be cheaper to build a system that has NO features but is just an infastructure for plugged in addons?

A few features of zire..

[heytal]

It has no backlight.It has date-book, address-book, memo-pad, and to-do-list manager. Also has a calculator, a palm expense program, and a clock.

A good review at techtv.com.

ZIRE: an extinct language of New Caledonia

[XNormal]

ZIRE: an extinct language of New Caledonia

SIL code: SIH

Region: Bourail, coastal plain.

Alternate names: ZIRA, SIRHE, SICHE, SÎSHËË, NERË

Classification: Austronesian, Malayo-Polynesian, Central-Eastern, Eastern Malayo-Polynesian, Oceanic, Central-Eastern Oceanic, Remote Oceanic, New Caledonian, Southern, South, Zire-Tiri.

Comments: Zire is reported to be extinct. No mother tongue speakers. There are apparently a few who learned it as second language. Grammar. Extinct.

I just don't get it

[i0wnzj005uck4]

Okay. No backlight and 2 meg of ram. The Palm m105 has 8 meg of ram, and a backlight, plus that clock button and retails for the same price (I got mine for 10$ lower!) with identical features. Oh wait, the m105 also comes with the Office applications for spreadsheets and word docs on your handheld. Oh, and the m105 uses palmOS 3.5 while the Zire uses 4.1. But aside from that, the change is mostly cosmetic. Thoughts on this?

two nice features

[night_flyer]

1) rechargable batteries
2) usb support

Re:two nice features

[Pulzar]

Exactly, I was surprised to see those two, which are usually only in more expensive units ($199+). A refurbirshed Visor Edge at $149 used to be the cheapest unit with rechargable batteries and USB.

If it had 4MB, I'd get one right now :(.

Anybody know any other PDAs with rechargable batteries, usb, and at least 4mb of ram at below $150?

only 4 buttons

[abe ferlman]

Since it only has 4 buttons instead of 6, a lot of games for the palm pilot are not going to work properly on this thing. Maybe you could play zap2000! by remapping the power button (!) to fire and neglecting key number 6, but at the very least it'll be a pain.

If this thing is for consumers, games are important.

"Parents and children" is a bad example

[PhysicsGenius]

I think you are right, "parents and children" are unlikely to need to play "Wormz" at the mall--and if they do, they can use their cellphones. There's nothing on this $100 Zira that a normal (and free) cellphone can't provide.

However, I think the idea of a cheap PDA is a good one in another field. Many's the time I've been at a collegues desk and we'll get into a "debate" about the molar mass of yttrbium or what the fifth-order solution to Schrodinger's equation is. At times like these, when your geeky rep is on the line, it is absolutely essential that your have some firepower to back yourself up. A handy periodic table app, or some high-powered number crunching will save your pimply, fishbelly-white ass someday. $100 is not to much to pay for this piece of mind--and the sleek silver case doesn't hurt either!

ePocrates

[StCredZero]

Other kinds of grad students in different niches also use these.

There is a formulary and clinical drug database program that is very popular with young doctors and medical students. It's called ePocrates, and it updates itself automatically when you are online and you hotsync. This is very useful because the books are very heavy, and the info changes almost daily.

I'd say this is a genuinely useful application.

(I am not an employee of ePocrates. Just a friend of a med student.)

Re:ePocrates

[jafuser]

I think the argument was against PDAs in general, not this particular 2MB PDA. Get a Cliè and a memory stick, and then 2MB is insignificant, so long as the application supports VFS. If this particular application is as useful as described, any extra costs are certianly justified for that kind of convenience.

BTW, I keep a local map of two surrounding counties, a dictionary, a complete calorie database, and several other very useful applications in my Cliè, and I still have 4MB free internal memory, and more than half of my 32MB memory stick memory free.

See how far we've come!!

[PeterChenoweth]

So in 8 years of progress Palm has gone from a 1MB Palm Professional with a backlight, a strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments and Expense. To a 2MB Palm Zire with no backlight, same strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense.

It's no great wonder that Palm Inc. is dying a slow death.

Re:See how far we've come!!

[Mr_Silver]

So in 8 years of progress Palm has gone from a 1MB Palm Professional with a backlight, a strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments and Expense. To a 2MB Palm Zire with no backlight, same strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense.

I argued this very similar point once on comp.sys.palmtops.pilot and got the following response:

In that time a top-of-the-line PalmOS device has gone from 160x160 monochrome with a 16 MHZ CPU, 4M of RAM and a unique internal expansion slot... to 320x480 16-bit color with a 66 MHz CPU, 16M of RAM, and an expansion slot that's shared with digital cameras and MP3 players... the lightweight devices have gone from 160x160 monochrome with 16MHZ and 2M of RAM to 320x320 color with 33MHz and 16M of RAM.

The operating system has added a new file system, a new network stack, and a whole new collection of standard libraries... and it's still backwards compatible and mostly forwards compatible with the IIIx and V.

Meanwhile, the top-of-the-line Windows Powered device has gone from 240x320 8-bit color with a 70 MHz CPU, 16M of RAM, and a standard CF expansion slot to 240x320 16-bit color, a 400 MHz CPU that's not any faster than the previous 200 MHz one, 64M of RAM, and a less capable expansion slot. The lightweight model has gone from 40 MHz to 200 MHz, 8-bit color to 16-bit color.

The operating system has changed the user interface incompatibly, and added new drivers and applications.

So my figuring is that in the time it's taken low-end PPCs to cost as little as top-of-the-line Palms used to, Palm's increased CPU speed 4 times, display resolution 6 times, color depth 16 times, and memory 4-8 times. Windows powered devices have increased CPU speed 3-5 times, desplay resolution not at all, color depth 2 times, and memory 4 times.

The operating system has had significant UI makeovers and new apps, but the underlying functionality hasn't changed and some functionality has actually been removed from the UI.

If you extend the timeline back to the first models, the differences are even more striking. The first Palm only had 128K of RAM!

So don't tell me the Palm camp has been standing still, and expect me to believe you have the vaguest idea what you're talking about.

Something to think about. Although having said that, I do think that Palm are dying a slow death. If OS 5 doesn't take off (and there is nothing radically different about the UI which will make most people go "oh, nothings changed") then they're going to be pretty much shafted.

Makes sense IFF street price is lower...

[dpbsmith]

Like others, I'm scratching my head at this if the price is really $99.

The Palm m105 really does cost $99. (A quick check at Yahoo stores shows: Palm Online Store $99.00; Circuit City $99.95; Datavision $99.94; BuyDig.com $90.00).

Maybe the Zire costs Palm much less and is sold to retailers for much less; and, as with some other products, maybe the price at Palm's store will continue to be $99, but street prices at the Best Buys, Staples, and Wal*Marts of the world will be much lower.

If the price were really $58.88 or $49.95 or "39.95 after $30 mail-in rebate" I'd buy one for my wife in an instant.

Only major difference

[banda]

The Zire is rechargeable like the old V series.
The M105 uses alkaline batteries.

Personally, I prefer the alkaline batteries. I can buy new batteries anywhere. I can't always plug in a charger and sit around for a couple hours.

Same as Palm V

[D3]

This is the same as a Palm V with a different case. Go on e-bay and get a Palm V for about $75.00.

They were engineered that way.

[stud9920]

The people behind Palm had studies that showed that the greatest part of the market for palmtops are people that already have a desktop computer, a home computer, a laptop. Heck, with a price tag of hundreds of dollars to start with, only geeks and your boss could afford one, and only AFTER buying said devices.

Those are better fit to run full screen, full motion, full color videos and play mp3s. I don't need that on my palmtop. Besides, how long a video can you fit in even 64 MB of RAM ?

That's not what a PDA (Personal Digital Assistant) is for. That's why these should be black and white, lowres. That's what rules about Palms. That's what sucks about $700 Windoze CE devices. If I want to play a video game, I buy a Gameboy, that's much cheaper.

Besides, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense are only the surface. You're free to add dozens of other little softwares. The Hacker's Diet. AvantGo, to cite a few.

If you want to whine about the lack of evolution in Palm devices, complain about the fact that batteries still last for about three weeks only.

Re:Whatever Happened to paper

[schussat]

3. High Encryption level. nobody can read my handwriting.

You've clearly not used a Palm. It encrypts your handwriting on the fly!

-schussat

I checked the prices...

[puppetman]

of this thing in Canada - $99 US, $169 CDN at Future Shop.

But I can get the Sony Clie PEG-SL10 with 4x the RAM, Palm OS 4.1, and a 320x320 screen (the Zire is 160x160) for $60 CDN more, plus a way nicer layout, etc.

This thing needs to be $60 US, $100 CDN. It's a rip-off at this price.

Damn Bejeweled

[unicron]

I got a Handspring Visor Prism for my birthday. One night, I show my wife Bejeweled. I want my PDA back..I really do.