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More on the KDE League

Posted by michael on from the pushing-the-needle-too-far dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Timothy Butler published a nice clean-up on the misinformations that were published by dep on Linux and Main. Most of what that has been alleged by Linux and Main turns out to be wrong. Especially, the KDE League has no obligation to disclose financial information. On dot.kde.org, Mathias Kalle Dallheimer, KDE e.V. president, explains that the KDE e.V would authorize the KDE League to disclose its books to the KDE e.V members. However, the KDE e.V is not the only member of the KDE League. Other members would have to approve this."

10 of 108 comments (clear)

  1. good job by Karma+Sucks · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am glad that these misinformations are not allowed to persist. It's tragic when someone else sets out on a PR war crusade against an Open Source project with the only goal of causing damage and mistrust.

    Thank you Tim, Kalle and Slashdot for your efforts to combat this.

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    (Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
  2. Here we go.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny



    Corruption in multi-billion dollar corporations. CEO's going down faster than a hooker on ephedrine.

    Now, here comes the OPEN SOURCE book keeping. Does this mean we'll get to see the live, play-by-play webcasted extortion, with the source code to match?

    god, getting people busted pwns.

  3. Rather troubling... by Sheetrock · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This isn't the first time I've seen a segment of the Open Source/Free Software community turn on itself. What is it that causes these kinds of conflicts and mistrust? Are inflated egos allowed to remain because of their coding ability where in the business world they would have been let go? Is it because people invest themselves more personally than if they were working for money? Or is it just a situation where muckrakers can thrive because everything is done openly?

    I worry that this sort of thing feeds into the 'crackpot' image many in business seem to have of the community...

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    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    1. Re:Rather troubling... by subgeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      me too!!!!

      sites like linux and main should not fall into the trap all the mainstream media has of sensationalizing everything. news about linux should be informative and well-researched, not the extension of someone's agenda. but that is not the case. people in oss/fs have very strong opinions, and bending the truth is ok as you have any kind of excuse to promote what you like and trash what you do not like. that's why people get tired of the community. or the crackpot image you mention.

      if we would be well informed, quit pointing fingers, and just stick together, open sourcerors would have a better reputation outside the community. let's promote what we love, but maintain some tolerance. if people think you hate them and their ideas, chances are pretty slim they'll ever listen to you. if you present your self as knowledgeable yet understanding, they just might think you have something to say that is worth listening to.

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      you probably shouldn't have read this.
    2. Re:Rather troubling... by TilJ · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The book the cluetrain manifesto has something to say about this. Here's my take on it:

      Traditionally, markets use the language of conflict. Battles over mindshare, control of a critical market segment, etc. These sorts of internal conflicts still occurred, but they were not makde public.

      The open source community makes it's internal conversation public. To me, this is a strength, not a weakness.

      Doc Searls explaisn this much better than I do, for those that are interested :-)

      --
      "The purpose of argument is to change the nature of truth." -- Bene Gesserit Precept
    3. Re:Rather troubling... by novas007 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > What is it that causes these kinds of conflicts and mistrust?

      Human nature. Contrary to popular belief, os/fs coders are human. Though some seem to have magical time-stretching powers that allow them to do more than a human should be able to in one day.

      There are inflated egos among os/fs coders, because, once again, they are human. There are many inflated egos that don't belong to coders as well.

      The reason this seems to crop up connected os/fs projects is if/when this happens at a company, _it doesn't get out_. The company doesn't want to lose image points, so conflicts stay internal. On the other hand, how do you keep an os/fs conflict internal? Have the developers talk mind to mind? They talk on public lists most of the time.

      And sure, we're crackpots. Some of us prefer to fix something we don't like in software we use. Fixing something you didn't write? Horrors! Putting your heart and time into a project that doesn't make you any money! CRACKPOTS! She's a witch! BURN HER!

      --
      To smash a single atom, all mankind was intent / Now any day the atom may return the compliment
  4. Re:Sigh... by a.out · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dilbert may hold the answer

  5. Re:politicians by spakka · · Score: 5, Funny
    Mammals really suck sometimes

    Yes, by definition

  6. The KDE League is merely a "Fan Club"! by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What *I* don't get in all of this is - isn't the KDE League getting its money from private corporations (I see NO individuals in the members list, only corporations, several of which are rather large)...one of whom is KDE e.V. (Am I reading this correctly)? Who in turn says they've got no reason to believe anything funny's going on? It's THEIR money - if THEY don't think anything wrong is being done with it, why the heck does anyone who DIDN'T give them money care?

    I've only seen one entity that actually ever had anything to do with the KDE League complain, and that's Shawn Gordon, whose company apparently USED TO BE a member (but are not any more, as far as I know. Unpleasant 'break-up', perhaps?).

    I keep seeing comparisons with the Gnome Foundation, which is a completely different type of group. The Gnome Foundation, as I understand it, is directly involved in steering Gnome development - it's actually an official part of the Gnome project(s). The KDE League is purely promotional - to put it bluntly, the KDE League is a "Fan Club". They have no more involvement in 'steering' or otherwise influencing development than any other fan of KDE does.

    It's also been pointed out elsewhere that $120,000 is a lot of money when it's sitting in a suitcase on your doorstep in the form of small unmarked bills, but it's a pittance when considered as a yearly budget for any kind of corporation. I think the highest-paid individual there is said to have been paid $36k/year salary to run it. Take out that, rent on facilities, purchase of equipment, and so on, and there's not much left...

    Now, as to whether or not the KDE League is effective at DOING anything, I couldn't say. I do certainly get the impression that they've not been active at all (basically, as far as I know, they've spent the little funding they had by just merely existing, and not really accomplishing anything), but given that the unrelated-except-by-name-and-theme KDE Software projects (that is, the actual developers, etc., who have no relationship with the KDE League as far as I know) seem to be doing just fine without the KDE League's additional promotion, I'm not too concerned about it. For all I care, the KDE League could have spent all the money on cheap prostitutes, malt liquor, and pornographic videos featuring necropedobestiality, and it will have still done no more harm than wasting a few thousand dollars each from a handful of private corporations (there are 10 listed on the members page - if they all donated the same amount, that's a "whopping" $12,000 each. That's barely pocket-change to corporations like IBM and Fujitsu-Siemens...), who don't seem to even care what happened to THEIR money...

    'Scuze the long post, I'm just utterly baffled at all the screaming going on over this thing. I could understand a chorus of "Ha, ha, member corporations, you wasted your money", but shrieking hatred of the sort reserved for Enron and Worldcom and so on just makes no sense to me at all...

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    Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
  7. Re:Some background please? by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · · Score: 5, Informative

    The KDE League is essentially a "fan club". It was formed, independent of the actual KDE software projects, to promote KDE.

    It would be like ME setting up "The Microsoft League" in my basement, and selling Memberships to, say, Compaq, Intuit Software, Ziff-Davis, and a handful of other corporations who like Microsoft. I would have no direct relationship with Microsoft, I'd just be claiming I want to "promote Microsoft".

    In this hypothetical case, Compaq, Intuit, etc. may end up having wasted the money they gave me, but it still has no effect on Microsoft...

    Dennis E. Powell posted a somewhat sensational story claiming that the KDE League had ceased to exist, asking "what happened to the money?" and so on. (Several people have accused DEP of having a sort of 'vendetta' against KDE in general over political disagreements he had with people on a KDE-mailinglist-hosted-but-not-KDE-related mailing list (i.e. the 'all topics other than KDE' mailing list) - DEP had posted an editorial which began with an implication that maybe the "K" in KDE was there because it resembled a goose-stepping soldier) Andreas Pour of the KDE League posted a response to DEP's story on the KDE League saying, in essence, "It's merely a clerical error, we're getting it sorted out, and we really can't say much more without approval from our members". DEP posted a story in response saying (my interpretation/summary) - "Delaware says you're a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, so you have to tell us WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MONEY!". The most recent exchange here seems to be Pour saying "We're not a 501(c)(3), We called Delaware and they said A)They didn't say we were B)Nobody there should say were were and C)No, we're NOT a 501(c)(3)", and DEP's response that he "stands by his story".

    As I posted above, I am puzzled why all the noise is coming out of this - it looks like what we have is a handful of rabid pro- and anti- KDE people all getting caught up in the sensationalism. The small handful of ANTI-KDE folks yelling because they want to discredit KDE, and the PRO-KDE folks yelling because they either feel they're being slandered or are worried that the KDE software projects are somehow being "ripped off" by the KDE League (presumably in the mistaken belief that the KDE League is analogous to the Gnome Foundation rather than merely a 'fan club'). The sheer volume of the screaming seems to be bringing attention from a whole mess or more normal people who are trying to figure out what all the fuss is about...

    Disclaimer - the above is entirely my interpretation, except were indicated, and could very well be wrong. That IS how I see this issue, though...

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    Hacker Public Radio is our Friend