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Wanted: Female Game Testers

BaronVonDuvet writes "The BBC is covering this story regarding the lack of female testers for the new Tomb Raider game. Given that there are a number of female gamers (admittedly far fewer than male gamers) why are they having so many problems finding women? Is this a sign that the female gaming market has never really taken off? Is the way men and women approach a game really that different? Are they really interested in finding women testers or is the whole thing a publicity stunt? If you're an interested woman maybe you should get in touch."

13 of 453 comments (clear)

  1. Women Don't find.. by Sourtimes · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I guess women don't find large breasted Animation as exciting as Males?

  2. Would You Test It? by krmt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe it's not that there aren't any girl gamers, maybe it's just that Tomb Raider sucks and they don't want to play the next piece of trash they're putting out on that franchise.

    I mean, if the games didn't teach them, then certainly the movie would have!

    --

    "I may not have morals, but I have standards."

  3. Men and women are different by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We are two different species. (ok, not really, but close enough) We think differently. Anyone that doesn't realise this has never lived with the opposite sex.

    And seeing as how most game developers are male....why should these games appeal to women?

  4. Where's the sexism? by Infonaut · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Go ahead, gun me down for this, but I'm curious about how Tomb Raider *the game* is sexist. Yes, the marketing of it is pathetic, but I don't see how the game itself is sexist.

    Lara doesn't get naked (admittedly, I've only played TR 1, so maybe I'm missing something that occured later in the series), she's not stupid, she routinely guns down bad guys, she's strong, and she's capable.

    She does, however, have large breasts, which coincides nicely with the fantasies of 14-18 boys (and 24-38 year old game designers). But some women do in fact have large breasts.

    True story: several years ago I bought my then girlfriend a Playstation and Tomb Raider. I didn't see her on weekend afternoons for a few months, because she was always playing Tomb Raider. She loved it. The fact that this woman also had large breasts might have something to do with why she didnt' seem to mind Lara's physique, but it does beg the question: Why does the appearance of a large-breasted woman automatically make something sexist?

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    1. Re:Where's the sexism? by Myco · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Two answers here. First, to answer your question directly, the large breasts are rather disingenuous. Yes, there are some women actually built like Ms. Croft, or with after-market modifications to that effect. But they are not the norm, they are the extreme. The choice to use such an unusually-proportioned model for Lara is clearly motivated not by realism (come on, she's supposed to be athletic, those things have got to get in the way) but by tittillation.

      Secondly, whether or not the accusations of sexism are valid, they are nonetheless widespread. If you're looking for an explanation why female gamers wouldn't want to test this game, you must look more to the game's reputation than the merits thereof.

    2. Re:Where's the sexism? by styrotech · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah but the men in most games don't bear the slightest resemblence to most gaming geeks either.

      They are the extreme not the norm :)

    3. Re:Where's the sexism? by geekette.pl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Beings that I'm a woman and an avid gamer....

      Lara is supposed to appeal to males with her figure and her brains and strength appeal to females. I find her figure much less offensive than models and actresses, who look (and possibly are) anorexic. Lara couldn't possibly be anorexic.

      Another poster was accurate when he/she said (to paraphrase) just because a character in a video game has big boobs doesn't mean it's sexist.

    4. Re:Where's the sexism? by safiume · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am female. This discussion forces me to quote Neal Stephenson: "... nothing more than sexism, the espoused by male techies who sincerely believe that they are too smart to be sexists." The sexism is in the marketing and packaging. It might be in the game itself but I haven't played it. Maybe if we're lucky the game defeats the old hollywood sexist sterotypes where the lead female role always sucscums to somethign that the lead guy, or love intrest is immune to.

      There was a time I would have thought testing games were cool. A good buddy of mine clued me in to centipede, and I wasted countless hours on tetris. But Lara Croft? Really now. Maybe if she would swap that I-wanna-look-like-bad-girl barbie push up bra for something more realistic. When I first saw the posters in one of the local gamer shop, a few years go, I thought: cool, a chick for a lead character. Until a few seconds later when I saw the rest of her profile. How crass, no hot shot sniper would dress like that. Her breasts would get in the way of shooting any large automatic weapon. Seeing impossibly, unrealistic breasts makes me think of when the aging character will have had numerous chemos, spinal taps, back surgery, and the last ditch effort mastectomy. Lets start the save Lara fund.

      As far as the 14-18 range thinking back to when I was in that range: I didn't really have free time to devote to gaming, computing resources were scarse and I didn't have any extra money to pay for a computer games. If I had the time, and cool computer, I probably would have played doom after hearing about it from a friend.

      Until a game can duplicate the fear/fun, release of addreninal factor of nearly getting myself killed cycling the GGB at night, in the dark, in heavy fog/rain, gusts of 30mi, I'm sticking with RL.

  5. Duh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is this a sign that the female gaming market has never really taken off?

    Most of the women I know find the majority of computer gamedom less than interesting. And that's no surprise if you consider that so many of the games out there are designed specifically to take advantage of male fantasies: the player becomes the hero, the conqueror, the savior, the avenger. What's more, the player often achieves victory through violence which becomes more and more graphic and gory as memory gets cheaper and processors become faster. And as others have mentioned, many games are overtly sexist.

    The computer games that women seem (to me) to enjoy the most are those that are nonviolent and don't require immersion for long periods to gain proficiency. Puzzle-based games are good bets. The games that the women I know enjoy the most are Tetris, Shanghai, Solitaire, Minesweeper, Pac-Man.

    The computer game industry has largely ignored women, and the games that have been hits with women have largely been pleasant surprises for the industry. My guess is that one of the real problems for the industry is that (I presume) there aren't many women designing and writing computer games. I don't think it's impossible for men to design games that women will want to play, but it won't happen on a large scale without some serious market research from the industry, and earnest sensitivity to the results from designers and publishers.

    Women represent a huge and largely untapped market for game publishers. It's astonishing that more attention hasn't been paid to women and their awesome purchasing power.

  6. Discouraging comments by CaptainEcchi · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I know I shouldn't expect a better caliber of responses around here, but I must admit that I was discouraged by the kind of responses to this story. A large portion of them have been of the "of course women don't want to play test this game, women don't think like us/women don't like being competitive/most women aren't hardcore gamers."

    I think it's the essentialist ones that peeve me the most. Take it from someone who has studied a good deal of evolutionary psych; there is not a whole lot of evidence that there are personality differences between men and women which cannot be accounted for by environment . In essence, the only real difference you're looking at is in naughty bits. There is nothing, nothing about having female naughty bits that means that you don't like to play video games but do like to make cookies and shop. If you don't believe me, say to yourself, "Women don't like video games because they have vaginas" and realize how ridiculous that sounds.

    I am a female gamer (my current obsession is Morrowind, for the curious; I spent money I didn't really have to get a Geforce 3, *just* to have the advanced water effects). Furthermore, I know, plenty, plenty of female gamers. No dearth of them; from my housemate who stays up until 3 AM playing Okage, to my Soul Caliber ass-kicking close friend. I don't know where you're looking if you can't find female gamers. (I suspect the answer involves parents' houses and subterranean areas). Go to a convention, for chrissakes!

    Admittedly, there probably are more male gamers than female (I base that on environmental, not biological factors), but I suspect that the reason they're suffering such a dearth of play testers is that well, many women gamers have distinguishing taste in games, and let's face it, Tomb Raider suffers in originality. For example, I don't tend to play many FPSes because I don't think they're very interesting. It's not that I'm not "competitive" or don't like violence or don't "want to be feel powerful"--everyone wants to feel powerful!--but that they tend to be ugly and monotonous to me after a while. I much prefer strategy games, especially ones like Alpha Centauri or Civ III which have an endless amount of possible endings, or games that have been well-crafted (hence the Morrowind obsession) to suck you into the experience (so much for the "theory" posited above that women don't like to enter into the world of the game). I think a lot of distinguishing gamers, male and female, would agree with me on this.

    Please think before you make generalizations about what women like and don't like. Don't tell me I don't like to be competitive, don't tell me I don't like to feel powerful, because it's a lie. And for goodness sakes, quit reading the John Gray, it's bad for you.

  7. Maybe it's just because by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Women aren't dumb enough to work 12-16 hours a day playing the same game over and over and over again until they're sick to death of it and never want to see it again, in return for tiny amounts of pay, with no creative input or influence, only - perhaps - a token mention on the back page of the manual.

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  8. Women WILL Buy Games!!!! by DebH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Crucini said: "First, I'm not condemning Tomb Raider. Game makers have no obligation to cater to women, who in any event will not buy many games."

    Can I say two words? The Sims.

    Oh, wait a sec. I want to add a third word if you don't mind: Myst.

    Women WILL buy games. We will buy them by the truckload, and we won't flinch at popping out the plastic for the lame, overpriced expansion packs. You know, the one that lets the characters go on dates, then the one that lets them go on vacation, then the one that lets them have pets... ad nauseum.

    I don't have statistics, but I'd be willing to bet more than a handful of women also bought the first Tomb Raider game. Why? Because it wasn't all about shooting and gore. It was basically a puzzle game. It had cool (for the time) graphics and a female main character. Oh, yeah, and Lara's breasts were a more manageable size back then.

    What we don't buy, no matter how many times you guys remake basically the SAME FRIGGIN' GAME, is an FPS where the whole point is to run around fragging (or for most of us, being repetitively fragged by) 14-year-old hormone spouting boys pretending to be big macho men. Ugh. In what way is that supposed to appeal to us? Well, ok, the thing about getting to take out some of our aggressions by blowing away a few testosterone OD cases does have a certain appeal, but you have to practice WAY too much to become good enough to do that. Meanwhile you have to be humiliated over and over again by swaggering male figures... and basically, we get enough of that in real life. ;)

    So look, what I'm trying to say here is, game companies could make a lot more money if they would make games that appeal to men and women both. Sure, they could just keep doing what they're doing and marketing to the pubescent males, but the real money comes when you create a game that appeals to both sexes. Of course, the game would have to have a PLOT, and CHARACTER INTERACTION (spraying the other person's brains all over a brick wall does NOT count), and interesting SITUATIONS or PUZZLES to solve... oooh that's just too much work. It's probably a lot easier to just make another FPS with, I dunno... bigger guns or something. Or more realistic gore. Yeah that's it! More gore! :P

  9. Re:Girl Gamers Unite (at my house) by RhetoricalQuestion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's evidence to back this up.

    The American Association of University Women did some extensive research into why girls don't tend to get into computers -- and one of the things they studied were games.

    And they found that the typical computer game (Go Forth and Shoot Things) did not appeal girls because they generally found them boring and repetitive. ("Oh look. Yet another game where you make things explode. Been there, done that. YAWN.")

    Games ostensibly designed for girls (Talk, Shop and Be Popular!) also didn't appeal to girls because they generally found them inane and dumb.

    Games like Myst, however, which was more goal-oriented and focused on problem solving, were a huge hit with girls. (Note that games that girls would tend to enjoy would also appeal to boys.) That is, girls like games that make them THINK, not mindlessly shoot things.

    I'm female, and it irks me to know end when the knee-jerk suggestion for a "Game for Girls" is something like "Chat with the Computer". Here's a clue -- why would any woman chat with a computer when there are REAL, LIVE people to talk to?

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