Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Puts SourceForge Clone Into Beta
M$ Mole writes "Microsoft is working hard to build their .NET community and has released the beta of an online software project management site. The service being provided is very similar to SF.net, but problems are arising around Microsoft's license, which (originally) granted all rights to the software place on the server to Microsoft. MS has back-pedaled a bit since their 'beta' license and is working on a new, more "acceptable" license."
Though it will never be another Source Forge, VA Linux loses a lot more money than they make, and the harsh reality is that it may be a matter of time before it gets 100 "Fuck Points" on Fucked Company and bandwidth-devouring slashdot, freshmeat, and especially sourceforge have to go on their own to survive.
Microsoft has nearly unlimited resources, and developers of various large open source projects may have no choice but to move to Microsoft's site, at least to use their bandwidth, which is still holding up quite well under a heavy slashdotting.
What about Microsoft's MSN messanger crap, and hotmail? Didn't they make the EULA state they own everything that transpires on either network, then remove the clause from the EULA, only to reword it a week later and append it again? Doesn't MS learn from their mistakes? Besides, .net needs to run on XP, so the EULA on XP clearly states they own anything we do on it anyways, so doesn't matter where the EULA applies, be it before or after I submit my code... it's all owned by Microsoft at one point or other...
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Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
I'm not quite sure that argument would hold up, since publishing on the web is distributing (at least from the author to the ftp upload site) although I am willing to listen if you know more.
.NET on their servers gets "pulled" if it starts to take away from one of their commercial offerings. To my knowledge, this has not happened on SF yet.
I also suspect that the SF liscense is more like "we got this off the servers, so can you..." and I suspect the Microsoft liscense is more like "..all your base are belong to us.."
Seriously though, I wouldn't mind MS using something I wrote, as long as the obey all the other rules that go along with GPL. I really have a hard time believing that that would happen though, at least MS following the GPL for stuff that's posted on their "Forge." Do they even allow authors to publish GPL on their servers?....now THAT would be viral if we could free the contents of the entire server by storage there.
I'd also be looking for some type of protection that doesn't allow them to silence alternative code if it does get published on their site. I could easily imagine some situation where a "TiVO" app all in
I'm still skeptical, but I'm willing to listen if you show me where in the SourceForge liscense it grants such terms too.
As one who just went through .net training, I think I'll stick with Java for my personal projects. After all, VB.net is almost Java anyway, and the JVM has already been distributed with most copies of Windows, whereas the .net framwork (20Meg download) isn't anywhere near as distributed. Ugh.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
since publishing on the web is distributing
But are you distributing code or information? I would think that SourceForge would be well within their rights to pull code from the various projects and keep use of entirely in-house. Their primary purpose is to distribute other's code, not their own.
It might be a different matter ethically, but failure to follow a certain ethical code is not necessarily an actionable offense.
To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
RMS's head must be exploding. "Whip hand! Whip hand right there!!!"
"By posting Your Stuff, You grant to Microsoft, under all of Your intellectual property and proprietary rights the following worldwide, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty free, fully paid up rights: (1) to make, use, copy, modify and create derivative works of Your Stuff; (2) to publicly perform or display, import, broadcast, transmit, distribute, license, offer to sell, and sell, rent, lease, and lend copies of Your Stuff (and derivative works thereof); (3) to sublicense to third parties, including the right to sublicense to further third parties; and (ii) You agree You won't commence any legal action against Microsoft or any Participant or Visitor for exercising any of these rights."
If you were stranded on an island with an MS user, what would be the one thing ever published anywhere, ever, that you would wish you had with you to shut him up? Yeah, that.
# Erik
They could if that was allowed by my license. For instance, under the GPL you can download and use code for in-house products with no catches, as long as you don't redistribute it. SourceForge can take advantage of this, as can any random third party. I think most Free Software licenses have this property.
In order to demonstrate the SourceForce is doing something wrong, you'd have to show me the clause that allows them to redistribute code on different terms than those granted by the license I released it under. Then there'd be something to talk about.
So let me be the 103,345th person to point out the irony in Microsoft's position... With one hand they're painting the GPL as a threat to your intellectual property that could wind up "stealing" your code out from under your nose, and with the other... they're stealing your intellectual property out from under your nose. Ugh.
The only thing they distribute is information created by their source code. The HTML of their pages is all that comes out of them, therefore they are not distributing the code that actually creates it. It's the same way plastic.com was able to modify slashcode without redistributing their modifications.
It's obvious that what really needs to be modified is the GPL to cover such situations. In this case, becoming more viral would be a good thing for the community.
Heck, it is called "SourceForge.net". OSDN has made it clear in e-mail to all SourceForge.net members that "SourceForge" the software development management system and "SourceForge.net" the public implementation thereof are two separate things. Heck, in the SourceForge.net logo, the ".net" part is in larger type than the "SOURCEFORGE" part. Did OSDN staff anticipate this competition from Microsoft? "Apparently, Microsoft is going to want to copy our idea for giving free hosting for open source projects' web sites, source code repositories, bug trackers, and mailing lists. Let's make '.NET' the biggest thing in our logo."
Here are some .NET projects on SourceForge.net: Projects that contain C# language code
Will I retire or break 10K?
And just how will you know when they will (or did?) use GPL code in their software and not abide by the licensing terms?
Exactly.
Anyways, if you want to have a look at a version of their site, check out their Russian cousin
I wish the release of VS studio .NET would have gotten more press. Especially the part of the EULA for that which says you are not allowed to write GPLed code with it.
War is necrophilia.
1. Ebay Fraud Article on MS sponsored site (MSNBC) with links to MS auction partner (uBid Ads). .NET development.
2. Switch (from Unknown Mac OS version to Windows XP) story written (apparently on a Mac OSX version of Word) by a contracted MS PR employee.
3. Sudden change of license for a Source Forge clone site geared to supporting
4. ? Stay tuned to Slashdot for the latest Microsoft Blunder...
With regards to #3: Didn't they say they were going to squash Open Source? Then why are they trying to do the same thing as the Open Source community? What, trying to beat them at their own game? Not happening. MS's "In The Know" bunch is a few hundred (maybe thousand) big business honchos and a few schools. The Open Source community's "In The Know" bunch is anyone with half a brain that wants to lend a hand, probably numbering in the millions.
We Are Open Source. Windows Existance Is Futile. You Will Be Humiliated...
Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
By running 'strings' on ftp.exe ofcourse.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
This all just looks very pathetic to me. M$ are trying to build something that has been there for years, and works just great. Do they really believe they have to code everything themselves, even though others have already done it better? Apparently they think that this is an excellent way to steal people's rights, and it seems to work out, too (see MSN, Hotmail, Passport).
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2B || !2B
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
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Server Error in '/' Application.
Runtime Error
Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.
Details: To enable the details of this specific error message to be viewable on remote machines, please create a tag within a "web.config" configuration file located in the root directory of the current web application. This tag should then have its "mode" attribute set to "Off".
Notes: The current error page you are seeing can be replaced by a custom error page by modifying the "defaultRedirect" attribute of the application's configuration tag to point to a custom error page URL.
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Am I the only one getting this error on gotdotnet.com? Past this, I was actually able to look at the message board where they posted the license update. To me, it sounded ridiculous.
First of all, the original terms were totally out of whack. Here's the quote:
By posting Your Stuff, You grant to Microsoft, under all of Your intellectual property and proprietary rights the following worldwide, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty free, fully paid up rights: (1) to make, use, copy, modify and create derivative works of Your Stuff; (2) to publicly perform or display, import, broadcast, transmit, distribute, license, offer to sell, and sell, rent, lease, and lend copies of Your Stuff (and derivative works thereof); (3) to sublicense to third parties, including the right to sublicense to further third parties; and (ii) You agree You won't commence any legal action against Microsoft or any Participant or Visitor for exercising any of these rights.
In short, all your base are belong to us!!! Huh? If I do post my project on gotdotnet, I will have to give up all IP rights to anything I create under that project to MS. I have to give them the right to unconditionally modify, redistribute, relicense for a fee, etc. and I won't have any rights to what I create. I have to imagine that someone actually sat down and thought that this was a fair deal! No shit they got a huge backlash from developers. Then there is the modified version of the license:
By posting Your Stuff to a Workspace, You understand and agree that you're giving a license under your intellectual property rights to all authorized users of the Workspace, including the rights to download, copy, modify, distribute and repost. In addition, you're giving Microsoft all the necessary rights to make Your Stuff available as part of the Project.
This has less legalese obviously, but all the details are now gone! There are no clear conditions that I am agreeing to; too generalized which makes me think that it eventually gives more power to MS to work out the details. These include and are not limited to:
- can I use my own license terms for use, distribution, modification, copyright notice?
- am I effectively giving up copyright when I agree to give everyone rights to download, copy, modify, redistribute and repost?
- can any user sublicense my work on their terms with their license for either commercial or non-commercial uses?
- what if there are patents involved? Am I giving up rights to my patents too?
- etc., etc., etc.
My understanding is that as one of the comments said in the reply to the above copyright change notice,
Why don't you just specify that you accept that the other authorized members of the workspaces will be able to work on the stuff in the workspace under the Licence the project owner defines... There is no need to give anybody a special licence... The wks owner tells that his project is under bsd licence for example, then, the only special right I will grant to MS is that I accept that MS will provide my files to others under the licence I defined. what is complicated here ? Why should they require something different ? If MS wants to use the file sin the project thay should also be bound to the defined licence, not the other way...
I think I have an answer why this is not going to happen; because MS is afraid developers will start using GPL for their works. With recent MS stances toward GPL apps, such as licenses that prohibit running or interfacing with GPL apps, I don't think they will allow developers to choose their own license. Rather, MS does want to force their terms on the developers. I am wondering how all this will play out.
In case you were wondering, here is the explicit ASP error:
..."
w .gotdo tnet.com&submit=Examine
"Server Error in '/' Application.
Runtime Error
Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.
More evidence that it's a security problem and not scheduled downtime. Security problems with IIS? I've never heard of such a thing!
But then again, downtime like this is nothing new:
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=ww
Do we have protection in the case that MS does purchase VA?
.NET and apologized for the inconvenience of taking down slashdot and SorceForge, but indicated that they were no longer neccessary for the furtherance of Microsoft's objectives.
What would happen if MS bought VA and "shut down" source-forge and slashdot? Has anyone given this serious thought?
January 13, 2003: VA Linux Systems, inc. formally announces it's acquisition by Microsoft Corp. today. When questioned about the acquisition, Steve Bhaller of Microsoft indicated that he was excited about switching all the terrific work bein done in the Linux community to
J2SE sdk and Tomcat != Visual Studio .NET. It's more like they are equivalent to the .NET runtime and SDK (which can also be downloaded for free).
VS.NET is a full IDE, etc.
DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
I read this and thought, "no way this is true, sounds like Free Software FUD to me." The article below talks about CIFS (common internet File System, which is file sharing NOTHING to do with VS.NET).
.NET; your use of Crystal Reports for Microsoft Visual Studio .NET is subject to your acceptance of the terms and conditions of the enclosed (hard copy) end user license agreement from Crystal Decisions for that product (a soft copy of the Crystal Decisions end user license agreement can also be found in the following folder: \Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio .NET\Crystal Reports\license.txt.).
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.NET Framework component of the Product to any third party without Microsoft's prior written approval.
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So I pulled out my VS.net disk and looked at the Eula. Can someone explain how this prevents release of software under the GPL. A google search led to little information on the topic.
At first glance, section 3.1(b) looks suspicious, like it's saying you can't make required redistribution of the source code changes to your product a requirement of usage (a core part of the GPL, obviously), but a closer read shows that it is referring to the sample code in the SDK. In other words you can't take SDK samples, make a product from them and make that product GPL. It's basically a licensing restriction on the sample code in the SDK. Is that right? It seems like Microsoft is worried that the GPL will "infect" it thru the sample code, which is ridiculous, I know, but there ya go.
END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE
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1.6 Visual Studio
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2.4 Redistributable Code-Visual C++ and Visual Studio
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DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
I just had a horrifying thought... maybe it's far-fetched, but it's worth posting.
What if Microsoft is doing all these stupid PR moves on purpose? The intent might be to make MS look like a big, goofy, harmless company rather than their usual Sinister Evil(TM) look. "Oops! We hired one of our PR people to write an 'unbiased' switching story. Oops! We put an insanely silly license up on our project management software. D'oh, aren't we goofy!"
I dunno, maybe it's just coincidence, but such a plan might actually help their reputation -- getting people who see them as evil bastards to think of them as merely incompetent goofballs would be a first step toward reducing resistance to their efforts. (After all, resistance is futile.)
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
I dont know about you, but as a web designer, i think that possibly has to be one of the most amaeturish looking pages i've ever seen. It rivals people with geocities creativity.
"Martha Stewart can lick my Scrotum......do i have a scrotum?" -- Sharon Osbourne