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Microsoft: No Xbox for You!
Markel writes "According this this story in the Sydney Morning Herald, Microsoft is very concerned about a man having been acquitted after allegedly selling [mod chips for a PlayStation]. So concerned in fact, that they are saying: change the law, or they will have to reconsider selling the Xbox in Australia. Not selling the Xbox is well within their rights, but putting it in a (I paraphrase slightly) "change the law or we'll .." context seems assuming a bit too much. I guess well see how many of our MPs are XBox gameheads."
I think they have every right to do this. Not only is it THEIR product, but the mod chips hurt them very much. As everyone has heard a million times, they loose money on the console... and then makes it up in the games. When people are actualy allowed to do this in an area, they should be able to say "Stop this, or we can't sell to your area." It's just the bottom line, and they are well within their rights.
Nintendo, Sony, and other companies over the years have had to deal with mod chips and people who like to mod their hardware. Last I checked, these companies are not having financial difficulty because of modding.
What bug is up MS's butt?
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
This is good news in my opinion, more PS2 and Gamecube fans.
However, if they do this, what's stopping them from saying "Ban open-source or you lose Windows?"
Bugs are just features that have been fixed.
...couldn't Microsoft just be saying this to try and kick up sales of the Xbox? If the government refuses to change its position, then there'll probably be panic buying of Xboxes before MS withdraws them from Australia.
Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".
I don't think they'd change their law for a GAME console
Maybe in 20 years from now we'll all need to move to Australia to have some rights
"The majority is always sane, Louis." -- Nessus
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I would assume they're worried that it will set a precedent for people who sell any kind of mods in Australia. If the PS2 guy gets off, how can MS stop the evil guy who does it with their precious Xbox? ;)
'Cause neither the poster nor the submitter appear to have read it.
Jesus Christ, Taco, are you paying people to do this shitty of a job? I sure as hell hope not.
the business model is fucked up. Price the DOS-box accordingly, and separate the games from the hardware. This is like giving mobile phones away for 10 cents and then bringing in the money on charges... totally fucked up as a long term business strategy. I bought a relatively expensive home theater system to watch DVD:s. Now, if they had sold this system for a bargain and then would have tied it to DVD sales for 50 bucks a title, I would never had considered buying DVD:s in the first place. Likewise, I have no game console, because the games prices are outrageous, which of course spurs pirating (unlike the DVD market, where prices are not unreasonable; the talk on piracy there is Valenti baloney). If anything is hurting M$, it is their own greed. Selling an expensive DOS-box plus fifty cheap games would benefit both Microsoft and the customer much more than selling an inexpensive DOS-box, ten expensive games and thirty pirated games. Furthermore, if there was no such licensing hassle, it would be a god damn big plus if the DOS-box could play PlayStation games! It would kill off PS, because DOS-box hardware is newer and better.
frawaradaR anahaha islaginaR!
PS/2 + modchip = CanPlayThirdPartyGames
Canon + adapter = CanUseThirdPartyLenses
Could this be that a country has recognized that a PS2 or an Xbox or other high-tech toy is really not any different from a toaster? Sunbeam has no say over what we do with a toaster after we buy it. If we choose to turn a toaster into a robot, or modify it into a rotisserie oven, that's our right. We can modify it in any way we choose to. If I were to offer a modkit to turn a toaster into a rotisserie oven, that is my right, but more importantly, that is the right the consumer has under common law. Current IP laws are in direct conflict with this, how it ends is any ones guess, but it is an interesting fight.
Do the words "significant non-infringing use" mean anything to these people? It's their own fault really. If companies would drop this price-fix^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hregion-coding nonsense so that the only real use of modchips was to play copied games, I might have a tiny bit of sympathy for them, but not as long as they keep sneaking in these extra restrictions that have nothing to do with copyright. Don't let the door hit yer ass on the way out, MS.
If their business model is so dependent on you buying certified Xbox games then why don't they just make a contract that you have to sign when purchasing it? It could be for say a duration of 12 months during which time you can't modify the hardware, then after that time you can do what you want with it. Afterall it's your peice of hardware in the end. Although really, it looks as though they are running around like paranoid monkeys. Do we see Sony threatening not to sell Playstations in Australia?
Well if Microsoft holds even the slightest chance of changing the law, then I suggest anyone in Australia should go and tell their local Federal MP that they don't want this to happen. See How to Get Politicians' Attention and How to Visit a Politician for tips on dealing with politicians. Of course it has to be said that visiting your local MP in person is the most effective way of getting your point across.
Jeremy
Melbourne, Australia
Jabber Australia
"Change the law or no native australian Xboxes"... thats what it sounded like. Everyone will import them from US or Japan, and play games on them, with the modchips that let them do so.
Someone at Microsoft didn't think this one through. Austrailia appears to be well on the ball regarding the rights of its citizens to access content they've purchased. The ACCC (http://www.accc.gov.au/) routinely stands against region restrictions in various forms, whether its games or dvds.
Will they budge? Who knows. This is all saber rattling on Microsoft's part, since whether or not they cut XBox sales in Australia, they'll still get the (well, negative amounts of) money when consumers start importing.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
All Microsoft is saying is that if it isn't profitable to sell XBoxes in Australia, then they won't sell XBoxes in Australia. Its not a threat to the Australian government- its the reality of business.
"The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
Did you take into consideration the fact that Microsoft loses money on every Xbox, trying to regain it with software sales? If they stop selling Xbox's in Australia, then they won't have to produce as many, and therefore not lose money on Xbox's there. The smart move for Microsoft would be to stop selling Xbox's in Australia, but keep selling Xbox software there.
Oops!
XBoxes or Windows... does anyone remember when Micro$oft made comments some time back that an unfavorable DOJ ruling would force Micro$oft to reconsider selling Windows??
Another example of how Microsoft thinks of its customers and of itself in relationship to them.
Yes, they may stop selling XBox in Australia. Will this matter in the long run? Probably not. Those in Australia who really want an XBox will buy one by other means and the world will keep spinning in the same manner as it always has.
The only concering thought is that Microsoft thinks they will prevail and if they do, what other products will they threaten to pull?
What about Windows XP and updates... now that there is some feedback to Microsoft about what copies of Windows are used and where is it conceivable that Microsoft may use this new data as justification to stop selling or disallowing users from certain geographic areas to download needed product updates? Mmm our records show that x% of users from IP blocks designated to your county, province, country are actually pirate copies. Change the laws or we will cut all of your country off from updates.
MS is probably willing to go to great lengths to keep the XBox market alive. They just reported huge earnings and have something like $30B cash so they can comfortably lose money on the XBox for years until they gain market share. For them to give up just because something didn't make economic sense right now wouldn't be like Microsoft. Look at their history, for crying out loud.
And if they do pull out just to spite you, well, no big loss. PS3 will probably be out before you could change your laws anyway.
From the article quoting Steve Balmer:
"If there are aspects that are not allowed, it would encourage us to require a change in the legal framework. Otherwise, it wouldn't make economic sense."
If the legal frame work of a given locality doesn't support your business model, don't use it. In the past few years we've all seen a bunch of crazy business models crash at full speed into the solid wall of reality. What Balmer is proposing here makes even the worst dot-bomb plan look sterling. Even groups like the RIAA and the MPAA can claim that "times and technology have changed" when they go to try to change laws. In this case MS is the newcomer to an existing markeplace that has had to deal with the problem of mod chips for quite some time. I suppose that this just shows that you don't have to smart to help run a multi-gajillion dollar company.
Hopefully the "change the law" business model doesn't become as popular as the "put it online and they will buy it" model was. If this takes off one can just imagine the headlines: "Company fails to buy law, declares bankruptcy." If that wouldn't be grounds for a mismanagement suit on the part of investors, I don't know what would be.
Never disturb your enemy while he is busy making a mistake.
Mandatory Princess Bride quote...
... And Australia, as everyone knows, is peopled with criminals and criminals are used to having people not trust them...."
BTW: There really is a print version of "The Princess Bride", in an abridged version by William Goldman, (Because the original by the esteemed S. Morgenstern is much too long and horrible to read.)
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What's broken is regional lockouts. I do not support using mod chips to play burned games, and I don't know if those are even available now that xbox games come on DVD. There is no reason I find acceptable to keep me from playing Japanese or European games on a North American system. Companies should bring games to all three markets in a timely fashion. Too many games never make it to certain markets, mod chips actually increase sales of those games for the market it was released in. Plenty of games get brought to NA with awful voice acting in place of the great Japanese. I'd far rather play the Japanese version, especially when the Japanese version has an English subtitles option.
In Oz, it's essentially illegal to enforce region coding, which this stoush seems to be about. It's considered anti-competitive. Similarly, a company cannot stop a product from being imported into the country, even if it already sold there (no anti-grey marketting laws). So basically you could still get your xboxen if you really wanted to and MS can do fuck all about it.
It's interesting to note that Visa and Mastercard are thretening similar action if the Reserve bank doesn't back down on some reforms.
One day, when we get rid of all the evil corporates, Australia will be the perfect place to live.
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I really don't think they're going to ban the X-Box in Australia. (Just like they're not going to ban Windows in China, which is reported to have a very high piracy rate.) They're just fluffing hot air to manipulate opinion.
On the other hand, maybe some of these 'Microsoft sanctions' we've heard about would result in a laughable embargo against Australia. Gooooo Balmer!
It's no surprise to me that Microsoft is becoming more and more aggressive with it's dealings in Australia. They just recently lost their single biggest customer (Telstra). That deal is not finalised and it will be at least a couple of years before it has true impact, but the tide is turning here... against Microsoft.
The legal precedent in question took the nature: "If I buy a car, am I allowed to re-fit the engine?" The law granted that unless Sony gave a lifetime guarantee they had no further right to any single PS2 once it was legitimately sold to a consumer. The consumer had full rights to do whatever they wanted to that one instance of hardware because it is their property.
Personally, I back the argument in question and say that Microsoft should get a new business model (or make good on their threat and stop selling their shite here).
Since the PlayStation was (and perhaps still is) a loss leader, and we know for CERTAIN the xBox is a loss leader, your statement doesn't make sense.
The thing that hurts Sony is somebody buying an MS game instead of a Sony game. Nobody makes beans on the hardware, and anything that broadens the set of people who buy software is good for the licensor.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
It really is sad that some great games don't make it to other regions. Americans at large _still_ think that the Sega Saturn was a fruitless platform, when some of the best games of that generation are Saturn exclusives.
Ever since I was young, reading about all the games released in Japan for the Famicom and PC Engine that would never make it to the NES & TurboGrafx-16, I've always wished that the American arms of Japanese game companies wouldn't pick and choose on behalf of the American market which games to release, particularly regarding sequels. The infamous example: Secret of Evermore is _not_ as good a game as the game that should have been released here in its stead, Seiken Densetsu 3 -- sequel to Secret of Mana.
As an American, my heart has to go out to the PAL region gamers. Not just is availability of most Japanese titles more limited than in the U.S. (with the odd notable exception), but the quality of the gameplay often suffers because games weren't programmed with the PAL video standard in mind, or the translations from the European publishers can be very bad (from what I'm told).
< tofuhead >
It is still the dark of night.
Not such a valid reason these days, since the vast majority of modern TV sets (and lets face it, how many people likely to buy a PS2/Xsux/Gamecube *really* will be using an ancient television?) sold in Europe are more than capable of displaying NTSC signals. Makes sense really since the TV manufacturers don't have to make everything twice.
Additionally, how the images are output to TV at hardware level has nothing to do with the game software at all.
It's just another excuse to fix prices.
--
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
Microsoft is threatening to not sell the XBox in Australia due to a guy being acquitted for making mod chips. Now just above Australia, is China. Wasn't there some crazy stat that 78% (2000) of the software in China is pirated and Microsoft is still selling there? If I was a Microsoft share holder I would be concern on the focus of Microsoft. I think less XBox mods are going to sell compared to copies of Office or XP.
Sorry for the late post, but I just saw this article and I have to wonder if it isn't a bunch of crap on Microsoft's part. Let's say Australia calls the bluff, and doesn't do a thing. Is Microsoft seriously NOT going to sell Xbox in that market? And miss out on the chance to purchase that much more mindshare? Please. It would just be a bigger incentive for the modchip makers.
Microsoft is just full of itself, and trying to spread FUD like usual.
-ZOD-
"If they're going to go so far as to threaten the government of an entire country "
Erm...how does refusing to sell a video game console "threaten the government of an entire country"?
Are they really that important?
A modern day witchhunt.
No, those are pretty shitty reasons for A GOVT. PASSING LEGISLATION TO ENFORCE THEM.
Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft couldn't give a damn about the issues you stated. They want region encoding so they can charge outrageous prices and those people not have any other way to import games cheaply. By what you said thier logic, in one sentance is "well, you know someone somewhere might have a PAL tv and buy an NTSC disk: therefore we will create regions based on language/hardware and then further divide them arbitrarily (which look suspiciously based on what the price they can charge), try and force govt to enforce them all for the consumers safety!" yea right.
Region encoding is not bad in and of it self: the problem is legislation that FORCES you to abide by them. Give me one good technical reason why I should not be allowed to play, under any circumstance, a game from japan on my US console (all the technical reasons you stated have no effect on this: both ntsc, maybe I speak japanese, and I can mail order it). Techinical reason: none Thier reason: profit. They found they could not techinically force it so they have legislated it (and while they have every right to try and maximise profits govt should not pass laws only deseigned to maximise thier profit).
------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
I think it is more likely that MS will have a word to their staff in Congress to have a word to the Australian Foreign affairs department, who would be requested to alter copyrigh laws to "fall in line" with legal standards required in a global market.
John Howard is in heat for anything american at the moment and would fall over on his back with legs in the air to oblige.
matt
The games do have to be programmed differently if they are going to be run on NTSC or PAL.
Oh really? PAL has two variations: the 625-line, 50-Hz PAL used for European TV, and the 525-line, 60-Hz PAL/M used for Brazilian TV and for European video games. PAL/M gives exactly the same pixel count (about 720x480) as the NTSC signal used in Japan and the USA. Thus, NTSC-style games on modern PAL consoles will run in PAL/M mode. (Older PAL consoles often halted the CPU during the extra scanlines of PAL, resulting in a slower game.) Not only do almost all PAL TVs multisync to both PAL and PAL/M signals, many can also display NTSC signals.
Another reason Nintendo releases at different times in different regions is they have a policy of only releasing a game after translating it to the local language
Then why not simultaneously release in the United States and the United Kingdom?
The real reason for region coding is the fact that different companies may own the copyrights or the exclusive licenses under copyright on a given work in different countries. For instance, Peter Pan fell out of copyright a long time ago in the United States, but the United Kingdom has passed a statutory perpetual copyright on the work and on all derivative works. The region lockout is intended partly to enforce parallel-import restrictions on works in markets where they don't have copyright clearance.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Amazing.
Razor companies sell the handle as a loss-leader, making up huge profits on the blades. Sure, some third-party blades that fit the handle come out that are cheaper, and the original company complains somewhat, but the vast majority continue to buy the "genuine article", and life goes on.
Ink jet printer manufacturers probably don't make a dime on the printers themselves: the profit is in the ink carts. Yes, some people buy refill kits, but still the vast majority buy the real replacement cartridges. Token complaining aside, the printer maker is happy.
The same is true, I'm certain, with the X-Box. There aren't that many modded systems out there to make more than the tiniest dent in actual sales of X-Box games. In a sane political environment, Microsoft would whine a bit but really, there would be nothing they could do, as the console belongs to the citizen and it should be none of Microsoft's business what anyone does with it.
Microsoft, however, has the advantage of being on the "right" side of the WIPO treaties which forbid all this "digital theft", and effectively remove a person's right to do what he/she wants with their own property. The USA was a "leader" in this: by passing the DMCA in 1998, they were easily the first Western nation to ratify this crap into what is now international law.
Most countries that signed onto the agreement haven't yet ratified it, but most are getting close to doing so.
Seems the Australian court system wasn't told how to rule properly on this issue. Ballmer thinks that a nudge may be required to make sure Australia is in line. Must be nice to have that kind of influence.
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
Just to expand on this a little...
The reason that regional encoding in general is viewed so dimly in Australia is simply because as a small market, Australia frequently gets hammered on prices relative to the rest of the world.
So, regional encoding looks like it's really set up to be price gouging to Australians.
There's been several investigations into, eg why CDs cost so much more in Australia than in other countries, or at least used to, before the exchange rate bombed.
Of course, this is the great thing about the internet. You can find the price of anything in nearly any market.
Frequently governments find this troubling, because it means they are missing out on sales tax, duties etc.
For corporations, I've heard of situations where they simply go and set up a subsidiary in the country which offers the cheapest relative price and do a corporate wide deal.
Consumers don't have that luxury, but Oz seems to have some resistance built up re this nonsensical price fixing by global corporations.
So does Anonymous Coward have good karma?
NTSC and PAL are not regions. So that's a reason for 2 versions...
:)
And of course, no one speaks a different language than the prevailing local one. I'd never want to see something in that dreaded English language if I could help it...
Can you tell I think region codes are bad?
Another reason Nintendo releases at different times in different regions is they have a policy of only releasing a game after translating it to the local language, which takes time (some companies release English language games all over Europe).
Nani? And this prevents... uh... what? A misinformed gamer from buying an out of region game and going, "Ah crap! This one's in french! How am I suppose to play it?!" Cuz now when he pops that french disc in his console it just won't boot? "Ah crap! This one is busted! And trying to return broken software sucks cuz the store treats me like some kind of pirate!"
What it prevents is a gamer who knows Japanese from directly buying Japanese games, especially those games that are never released in his region. And preventing sales is good... uh... why? I need to mod my console to play legally purchased games... uh... why?
Back in the day we used to buy Super Famicom games for our SNES. We were told we needed to buy a $20 'converter' which plugged into the SNES and would allow you to play the Famicom games by plugging them into the 'converter'. I was shocked and outraged when it was explained to me that a SNES had the same hardware as a Super Famicom and that the 'converter' didn't actually do anything. The reason you 'needed' the converter was because you couldn't directly plug a Famicom cartridge into a SNES because Nintendo had added a pair of little plastic tabs which prevented you from inserting it completely into the console. After using some pliers to snap off the plastic tabs the cartridge inserted and played just fine.
A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.
Hi all. I'm an Australian. I know many people here who have purchased a Microsoft X-Box. Most of them did so as a result of the not-so-recent price drop.
I would just like to point out that Microsoft will not remove the X-Box (and games) from the Australian market. This is nothing but the usual FUD that many have come to expect (actually, it's synonymous with) from Ballmer, Gates, and Co.
The reason is simple. To do so would be a massive public relations nightmare for Microsoft in Australia. Sure, we are but a country of 20 million people. A drop in the proverbial population bucket, if you will. But the point still stands.
If Microsoft pulls the X-Box out of Australia, they can kiss-ass-goodbye to ever competing (on an even par) with the likes of Sony in the Australian market, ever again. There would also be a carry-on effect for their other products.
This is nothing but fear-mongering on the part of Microsoft.
It would be interesting to see buyer reactions to Ballmers comments, especially in the leadup to the Christmas buying period, if the mainstream press in Australia was to make his comments public knowledge to all.
This is cutting off their nose to spite their face. "Our business will be damaged by mod chips therefore we're going to destroy our business first.", has to be the most hollow threat ever.
Ok, consider a company that makes some kind of periferal device for the ms xbox, say a webcam or something. It is obviously not illegal to make such a device. Of course you 'll say a mod chip does something illegal, but a webcam doesn't. But it is not allways clear whether a device is legal or illegal. How about something like the action replay from the amiga days? would an action replay for the xbox be illegal? What if someone makes an xbox compatible machine? Will they be able to stop it? You can see where I am getting at. Does microsoft have the authority (or the power if you prefer) to control all the hardware that third party manufacturers produce? Can they dictate what kinds of plugins are allowed? IMHO they can't and will never be able to. That's what apple tried to do once and they lost the game to the pc. That's what IBM didn't try do and today there are pc's everywhere. But IBM wasn't able to benefit from that fact. Face it, the hardware can't be controlled that easily. Today IBM and Sun are trying to move from the hardware market to the software market. Do you think they are stupid? They made the mistake once, they know they can't rely solely on hardware sales. On the contrary where does MS go? Now they try to make their own hardware platform as if software weren't enough to keep them going. I say good luck to them, but it won't be that easy this time.
When you set up a loss leader marketing plan, some of your costumers are going to take the deal and leave the rest. Grocery stores do this all the time. Albertsons doesn't take you to court when you buy 2 12-packs of coke for $4.00, but refuse to buy the expensive potato chips on the other side of the aisle.
Why does M$ consider it the consumers obligation to make their gamble pan out?