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Xandros 1.0
Mr. Smoove writes "Despite the quick-off-the-mark review from Newsforge this morning, the Xandros 1.0 desktop is finally here! No free download so you'll have to shell out US$99 for it but you do get an enhanced (?) version of KDE 2.2 and built-in Cross-Over Plugin and Office! Finally a decent challenger to Lycoris and also what Lindows should have been..." There's also an interview with a Xandros executive.
What about the GPL? It seems that the only way to get the sources is by emailing feedback@xandros.com. Is that legit?
'ARRGH! Pirate Designers of the Internet, we be!'
Since you aren't entitled to the sources unless you obtain the binaries legit, then what is the problem? The GPL doesnt say anything about giving the sources out free to everyone. It says if you give out a binary to someone, that person is also entitled to the soruces free of charge. (ie, email them and they will be required to send it to you)
/. a hundred times.
If someone buys the $99 dollar copy, then posts the binaries and sources on his website for free download, that would be fine, but so far, nobody has done that, so you must pay $99 dollars if you want it. GPL isn't free beer.
Go read the GPL, this question has been answered on
Two infinite things: your stupidity and mine. But I'm not sure about the latter. If my sig offends you, I'm sorry.
Is this a viable alternative to anything? Seriously, I can't believe they don't offer some sort of free trial version. I don't understand how companies expect they will ever gain traction in the marketplace when they don't do something substantially better. Incremental improvements, if that is what they are in this case, are not enough. Sure, I admit it, I haven't used the product. But what is my incentive? Why should I shell out $99? Based on a review? No chance of that. Not when I can get something almost as good for free. Or, not when I don't see a major improvement for making the leap. Of course, I suppose you could rain on my parade by saying this is an OS so the rules are different. But, I don't think that is a good argument; not when I can get an OS for free. Do I want to run Windows? OK, then I'll use Wine or maybe I'll go for Lindows. This is just my quick, early post, $0.02 and I'm probably wrong in a major away. Here are some rotten eggs to throw at me -- have a blast throwing them at me.
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Big, big mistake. In fact, if they don't provide some kind of live-cd, ala SuSE, they'll completely flop. It's that simple. No one will pay for an OS that they haven't used at a friends house or can freely try it out on their own, especially when the packages are so out-of-date (all these "Windows-killers" seem to use that same outdated version of KDE). Check out the Xandros page at distrowatch and see for yourself.
LindowsOS saved itself by coming pre-installed on WalMart PC's--Xandros will have to try and pull some similar maneuvre. As I see it, there's no way in hell other *NIX users will pay for something they already have, and Windows users are skeptical of change as is ("You mean to tell me they're making this for free?" usually sets them off).
If Xandros were the best desktop distro ever, it wouldn't matter if they couldn't get people to try it, and then buy it. I hope they do in the future, because I'm actually interested in this.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
Buying both Crossover Office and Crossover Plugin will set you back, in total, almost $99. KDE 2.2.2 has seen some improvements recently, many of them given back by Lycoris. I have a great way of thinking about Xandros. Think of it as a braindead simple way of getting Debian and both Crossover Office and Crossover Plugin in the bargain.
:-P At least with Lycoris' "Iris" simple software installer it costs you only $20 per seat, forever.
Of course, if Xandros is trying to pull the same Lindows crap and charge $99/year "subscription"...then screw that, I'll wait for Debian to put out 3.0 with the Progeny installer.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
you seem to mistake no litigation with no teeth.
the FSF tries to save money by trying to work with the infringing company to fix the gpl violations. if it comes down to it, the FSF tells the infringing company that it must stop using the software of face litigation. no company has tried to fight the GPL, so in ecense it does have teeth since it keeps infringers from using the product out of fear of litigation. about it holding up in court or not, I do not see why it would not....copyright give authors control over the agreement with other parties who want to use there creation....if I say you have to give this to one other person in order to use it, then you have to give it to one other person or you don't get to use it.....
very simple stuff.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
We're not following the traditional Linux distribution approach where you've got six calculators, four text editors, three of this and two of that -- you get one of everything with us.
Thank god. This is something I wish more distros would do. Most seem to think that if I get eight different crappy ways to set up PPP, I'll be happy.
From the interview:
A key message that we want to convey is that we are not trying to compete for the bleeding edge user. We want people to actually get their daily work done -- everything should just work. If you look at most of those other distributions, much of what's there either doesn't work, or it's too hard for the average user to understand or to use. That's the key difference.
So it's ok..they are not targeting you, me, the linux geeks & the bleeding edge crowd. I don't know many among those who would pay $99 for an up to date distribution anyway.
They're targetting business users, the office desktop, and want to make a cheap OS that just plain works, even in fields where Linux traditionnaly doesn't do too well (browser plugins, compatibility with Microsoft software) thank to a tight integration with Codeweaver's Crossover plugin & office.
So.. I'm not interested in Xandros, but that doesn't mean Xandros is not interesting.
!
^_^
I only wish I would have thought of the idea of throwing together bleeding-edge bugridden versions of software and giving it away for free, and calling that a viable business plan.
Some people just can't face reality.
Use Redhat.
Sorry, but what is the point in Xandros, Lindows, Lycoris, etc?
Infact, what is the point in the millions of distros we have now, (apart from special distros for non X86 hardware, and specialised applications)?
If you're a corporate user, use Redhat
If you're an ordinary user migrating from Windows, use Mandrake, or Redhat
If you're an average geek, use Debian
If you've already got *nix experience, use Slackware
They are all freely downloadable, (although I suggest buying an official disk set - it's usually cheap anyway, and it does help the distros to keep funding themselves).
I know this could be interpreted as a troll, but it's not meant to be. We don't need 'united Linux', we don't need a lot of distributions pretending to be Windows. All that does is to confuse the end user.
When people ask me why they should switch to Linux from Windows, I usually ask them, 'Well, does Windows do everything perfectly that you want it to', 'Yes!', they usually say. I tell them to stick with Windows until they can think of something about it that they don't like. Usually within about 10 seconds they think of something. Then I show them a Linux machine, and tell them that the reason it's better, is because it's nothing like Windows. If they want to benefit from Linux's superiority, they need to invest time to learn it properly. Otherwise, they're better off just putting up with their current in-adequate system.
You are incorrect. Look at 3b of the GPL. You can provide a written offer to provide a copy of the source code on a suitable distribution media (and the offer must be good for a minimum of 3 years) for the cost of physically providing the copy.
This is how GNU got $$ initially. RMS sold tapes with the source code to Emacs and other GNU software.
maybe it'll kick some Redhat/SUSE/etc. asses
? Why did Microsoft get as powerful as they now are? The main reason is marketing, marketing and a fanatical devotion to bundling...yes, two reasons. Sorry, for the cheap MP reference.
Anyway, how can a company with no market penetration, no free samples etc... hope to compete with Red Hat especially, but even Suse and the other distros. I have not heard any Linux people talking about "Gosh, I can't wait to BUY Linux from that new company", "yeah, boss, it's only 3 times as much as Red hat. I hope it's good" Hmm....not a great market entry IMO.
On the other hand, not having multiple choices about how you work and what tools to use is sure helpful, *sarcasm*Linux people hate choice*sarcasm*
Keep in mind that not all of the product in this case falls under the GPL. Portions are commercial software under seperate copyright terms, and as such they only need to provide access to the source to those components that are GPL/LGPL, and nothing else, resulting in quite possibly a broken, useless distro.
Reading over the posts, it seems many are miffed about Xandros not having a downloadable version for people to try. Apparently, the prevailing view is why buy it if you can't try it. Folks, this is so hypocritical. You see, I feel the same way about MacOS X. The only reason I would be interested in it is for the GUI, but if I can't even try that, I'm not shelling out the money so I can lock myself into their hardware. At least with Linux I can configure KDE 3 to approximate the look of OS X, and I've found I like it. But what I like best of all is that my desktop can look like Aqua, but I don't have to pay for the privilege to restrict myself to Aqua.
As for using KDE 2.2, do you think maybe the emphasis is on stability, not having the newest stuff? Doesn't Debian do the same thing too? And if you don't like the version Debian stable uses, you can upgrade. Guess what, you can upgrade Xandros too.
I await -1 troll (called posters hypocrites, mentioned Apple in non reverential tone), but I just can't get over the whining!
If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
It looks like I'm gonna have to stand up once again and go against the grain. I love everything I've seen on Xandros. I think the client is a great, great thing, and basing it on stable, bug-free code (KDE 2.2 instead of 3) is a very smart idea.
/. readers buying the distro: They want corporate accounts. And by the looks of it, they're going to get them.
These guys are off on the right foot. They don't want
Why? Simple. The file manager is brilliant in terms of what it does, how it looks, and how it can be incorporated with existing machines, and especially, domains. You ever wonder what Linux has been missing? Well, this is it.
Does anyone else here, especially those bitching the loudest, actually administer users? I don't know about you, but any tiny change will cause an uproar. A rollout of Mandrake, Redhat, or SuSE would cause numerous heart attacks where I work, with users complaining about everything from clutter in the menus (why are there 4 different configuration menus in Redhat? No one's really sure...) to lack of a decent resolution changer, something Xandros already has. Training is a big issue in large companies, and the more you can port from Windows to Xandros, the easier (and more compelling) a choice it will be.
OpenOffice should save companies lots of cash. It's compatible with Office 97->XP docs, and the savings on the lack of licensing on that product alone will be worth raising an eyebrow for the upper execs. Those who still need it for Outlook, Powerpoint and/or Access can keep their copies at little to no cost of what businesses are paying now, or simply buy the products seprately instead of the whole office suite. The only thing needed now is a true, open source Exchange-connecting email client (I know Evolution can use the calendars, but it costs $70 and I love Linux because 95% of it is free) and then they'll really be in high cotton.
I know everyone's balking about the cost, the GPL source tinkering, and the rest, but from a sys admin's POV, this OS has done more in one release than Redhat did in five.
While I'm certainly a big KDE3 fan, let's be honest (at the risk of being modded down as flamebait). Can you actually list offhand all the progress that KDE3 has over KDE2?
Okay, so it has a few nicer-looking themes, but let's think more about substance - Xandros isn't going for all-out flash. KDE3's got a better version of Konqueror, but that's not so important given that most Linux desktops use Mozilla. KDE3 has better printer support and an improved file manager, but Xandros has already heavily modified the file manager anyway, and it's not hard to imagine them including a printer setup wizard. Improvements to KOffice are kind of irrelevant given that this comes with CrossOver Office. Multimedia stuff (Noatun, etc.) - not important, there are non-KDE apps that can do much better still. Basically all that it's missing is a bit of a speed boost and some changes to KDE-PIM.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that KDE2 is better in any way, just that if Xandros has already put this much work into KDE2 to improve it, then it's not so bad that they're sticking with it rather than going with a more vanilla version of KDE3.
The first ever Ultimate Frisbee video game: here (now
The reason why they keep changing APIs is to correct design errors. They break APIs less and less often. Look at the changes beween KDE 1 and 2: they're HUGE! Now look at the changes between KDE 2 and 3: they're mostly source compatible. And compare GTK+ 2.0 with 2.1: they're planning on making 2.2 binary compatible with 2.0, because the API is good and mature enough.
At least open source projects are willing to break compatibility for the sake of better designs. The APIs become more and more stable as projects mature.
It is obvious from their website that, as has been stated already, they are not marketing to you or I. This is being marketed for businesses and for individuals who are getting sick of Microsoft but need to stay compatible with its productivity software and needs everything graphical. You don't have to sell to everyone to make a profit in business.
In fact, having a niche is a strength, not a weakness. Think about the rise of the SUV. So many people liked the functionality of a truck (riding high, cargo carrying, not being tied to pavement) but many didn't want to drive a truck, either because of the look or because of less passenger room. The SUV fits the niche between the two nicely, and you can't drive 10 seconds without seeing one. Of course, some will stick with their trucks, others loyally to their cars, but the SUV makers will rake in the dough. What's $99.00 for a functional solution that is taylored to someone's needs.
I think that they will do well with this.
..that they are putting non-free software in with the free software and restricting usage of the non-free software. This means that you cannot buy the software and redistribute it... you can only redistribute the free software that is included in their distribution, and I'm sure that they have made it so that it is not a working product sans the non-free software.
This is the business model for UnitedLinux, so you best get used to it. The days of freely copying linux CDs are numbered. Per seat licensing, here we come!
Use Gentoo or Debian. It's the only way to protect your freedom.
"To make a mistake is only human; to persist in a mistake is idiotic." Cicero
Xandros is based on Debian, which is designed and developed to be a production system. As such, it often lacks the "latest-and-greatest bleeding edge toys", sacrificing newness in favor of tried-and-true KNOWN rock-solid stability. In a corporate environment, most managers would avoid EVER upgrading software if they could, which is why there was so much fear and uncertainty about Y2K.
Again, corporate managers would really prefer to specify a mandatory standard for desktop appearance that applied company-wide. Your "half the fun" is ALL of there problem when they have to bring in a temp to cover for the receptionist or a secretary and the poor temp's eyes are hemorrhaging before noon because of some atrocious color scheme the regular employee "designed" to "improve" the appearance of their workstation. Computers in the corporate environment are supposed to be tools, not toys.
Xandros is going to have a tough go of it. They are taking on Microsoft head-on in a market that MSFT deems critical. The road will be long bumpy and dusty. I truly hope that they have the fortitude to stay the course. I don't think this distro is the Windows-killer, but It does seem to be well thought-out and put together.
utter rubbish
What is this distro really? And how does it compare to Corel Linux 1.2/Second Edition? What have they removed/replaced and what have they added? I have established the following so far:
- CrossOver Office and Plugin are installed but the versions supplied are NOT supported by Codeweavers
- Non-destructive (will you backup?) NTFS partition resizing is in as part of the install, and that I must say is a great innovation!
- OpenOffice is present
- It's basically Debian Woody at heart
- It seems the Corel File Manager and Samba integration suite are still alive and kicking
- The Corel X control panel seems to have gained multi-monitor support!
- They've gained a switch user function like WinXP
- Extended hardware autodetection including drivers for WinModems!
- They've put back in a text installer!!!!! No more you can't install if your video card brings down the installation system.
- Xfree86 4.2! Not the debian 4.1. I wonder if this is a homebrew or the test debian packages from X-Strike-Force (presume homebrew).
Right what has anyone else figured out, or even better does anyone out there have Corel Linux 1.2/SE AND Xandros 1.0 to compare and contrast? Some specific interesting (to me anyway) questions would be?- Can it play DVD's
- Does it do anything to prevent you using official debian apt sources (libc or
...)
- If this is really "A system that is complete and functional as soon as you finish installing" does it still gracefully handle the power of dpkg/apt through XandrosUpdate?
- What java suite do they use and how is it packaged and what licence is it under?
- How compatible are their chat tools and will they remain so? Are they actively developing or contributing to their devopment or just hoping for the best?
I presume there are a million and one other questions I have forgotten as I wrote this but I'll sum it all up by saying:I think Corel Linux was a great start to an OS project. I went far beyond anything any other Linux distro had done to reach out to the non-enthusiasts out there and offer them an alternative to Windows for their x86 computer. It wasn't perfect, it was a work in progress, and I hope that Xandros are actually able to take the ball and run with it as it had promise. The only things I question are the shift away from the home market, the lack of a Free CD and the inclusion of CrossOver Office which diminishes the impact of OpenOffice (Corel supplied a WP8 with their distro and let you choose the office tools you wanted on top of that, i.e. gnumeric or WPO2000 or StarOffice).
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source