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Xandros 1.0
Mr. Smoove writes "Despite the quick-off-the-mark review from Newsforge this morning, the Xandros 1.0 desktop is finally here! No free download so you'll have to shell out US$99 for it but you do get an enhanced (?) version of KDE 2.2 and built-in Cross-Over Plugin and Office! Finally a decent challenger to Lycoris and also what Lindows should have been..." There's also an interview with a Xandros executive.
what the cross-over plugin is, and I don't want Office. Even though 100$ is a low price for office. But as for the enhanced version of KDE 2.2, it's gotta have some crazy enhancements to make it worth paying for. KDE3 is free and suits my needs. I'll wait for a lot more people to buy it and tell me about it before I see if the enhancements are worth the cash.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Yes, it is legal to make a GPLed project only available for pay.
The fact a product is GPLed means basically two things:
If you give someone a copy of the product, they are allowed to give it away to anyone they like, and you cannot stop them.
That's ALL. There. It's said. Now you don't have to complain about the $99 thing, right? Becuase you all get it now. So shut up. There's a nice FAQ here if you're still confused.
I'm too late by now, aren't i?
'Tseems the site has all but yielded already. You can find some info at Distrowatch
Don't forget the roots, either: http://linux.corel.com/
No. You only have to give access to all source to your customers.
Of course, nothing prevents any of those customers to just set up an ftp site with all the source and binaries for anyone to get.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
No. You are only obligated to make the sources available to those who receive/buy the binaries.
As a good citizen of the open source community you should feed your patched upstream but you are not required to.
Unfortunatly there is non-free software included in the Xandros desktop so posting all the binaries is a no no.
Incorrect!
GPL faq says:
Section 2 says that modified versions you distribute must be licensed to all third parties under the GPL. "All third parties" means absolutely everyone--but this does not require you to *do* anything physically for them. It only means they have a license from you, under the GPL, for your version.
Translation: If you take a GPL'd program and make modifications it and release that program you must make the modifications available to anyone who had a license to the original program or any derivative version of it!
from the GPL:
3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
* a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
* b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
* c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)
E-mail is fine and dandy. You can even charge costs, and you only have to do it for three years.
"The shipping version of Xandros has two CDs. One is the main desktop that we think is good enough and stable enough, and easy enough for people to use. The second CD is basically KDE 3, so the bleeding edge users can try it out to see what the fuss is all about. We are trying to satisfy both worlds, as opposed to just satisfying the bleeding edge.
take the GPL quiz, They must send you a copy, only email or only over the internet. Suitable is taken to mean by the same delivery method as you recieved the binaries, e.g. Post.
also from the FAQ's
" You're supposed to provide the source code by mail-order on a physical medium, if someone orders it. You are welcome to offer people a way to copy the corresponding source code by FTP, in addition to the mail-order option, but FTP access to the source is not sufficient to satisfy section 3 of the GPL.
When a user orders the source, you have to make sure to get the source to that user. If a particular user can conveniently get the source from you by anonymous FTP, fine--that does the job. But not every user can do such a download. The rest of the users are just as entitled to get the source code from you, which means you must be prepared to send it to them by post.
If the FTP access is convenient enough, perhaps no one will choose to mail-order a copy. If so, you will never have to ship one. But you cannot assume that.
Of course, it's easiest to just send the source with the binary in the first place. "
" "Valid for any third party" means that anyone who has the offer is entitled to take you up on it.
If you commercially distribute binaries not accompanied with source code, the GPL says you must provide a written offer to distribute the source code later. When users non-commercially redistribute the binaries they received from you, they must pass along a copy of this written offer. This means that people who did not get the binaries directly from you can still receive copies of the source code, along with the written offer.
The reason we require the offer to be valid for any third party is so that people who receive the binaries indirectly in that way can order the source code from you. "
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I think that charge comes from including CodeWeavers's CrossOver Office, $55, and CrossOver Plugin, $25. CrossOver Office will run MS Office 97 and 2000, via wine, on your Linux box. And CrossOver Plugins will allow you to view Quicktime and other formats.
That looks like where the cash comes in, but do you really need it. OpenOffice is a great replacement for CrossOver Office, and Xine is a great replacement for CrossOver Plugins. And then you are getting a KDE desktop that in one revision behind the time.
Translation: If you take a GPL'd program and make modifications it and release that program you must make the modifications available to anyone who had a license to the original program or any derivative version of it!
Read the FAQ again -- it explicitly says that you do NOT have to do anything. You don't have to make the modifications available to anyone; you just have to permit them to use your modifications, if they should happen to get their hands on them.
The only people who have a *right* under the GPL to get their hands on your modifications are the ones you give the modified software to.
This doesn't matter. Odds are almost 100% that Xandros has already released all their modifications as patches. The main reason they're not giving it away is that they're heavily integrated with non-GPL, and in fact non-free software. They couldn't give that away if they wanted to, and they shouldn't.
-Billy
I think that's why the FSF doesn't consider Apple's open source license as a Free Software license, becasue you are required to send changes back to teh original creator.
It's not only the nicer-looking themes that make KDE 3.1 worth it...the KDE Usability theme has changed the Control Center quite a lot - OK I guess the Xandros people will have done this as well, it would make sense anyway.
On top of that KDE 3.1 is quite a bit faster (esp. compiled with GCC 3.2, which won't work with 2.2 I guess, but am not sure about that).
I agree that KOFfice is indeed kinda irrelevant, as is noatun (XMMS is much better) and most other kdemultimedia apps.
For companies it might actually make sense, if it runs MS Office really good and opens and writes MS Word docs without a hitch...you wouldn't care about the greatest themes and whatnot, in that case (as a company).
So yeah, you actually have a point, but as for me personally, I'm not going to switch back my desktop OS from KDE 3.x to 2.something. So it'll have to be big companies that buy their OS - which I seriously doubt is gonna happen (a very clear explanation why not is on top of this thread if you sort on highest score).
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
OpenOffice's "Impress" is equivalent to MS Powerpoint, and reads the MS .ppt files just fine. I assume it writes them as well, but I've only used it to view .ppt presentations.
things like the two crossover packages, which by the way, cost together near 99$. Xandros is a pretty good deal like that, especially if you are a new linux user (who they are targetting).
"The reason Linux has the market on servers and covers less than 1% of the dektop market is because consumers are computer illiterate. (Which is not their fault)"
So what do we do to change that, instead of contributing to it?
"The only way for Linux to have a shot at becoming a major OS and compete with Microsoft is if it can become dummy-proof and easy to use for the average PC owner."
How many other devices you know are as versitle as computers, and "dummy-proof". And if you say cars I'll smack you. Try watching an episode of "Worlds Worst Drivers" sometime."
"Xandros may not be that solution, but it's a step in the right directin to bridge the gap between linux and user-friendly needs."
The problem with the "it's gotta be like windows crowd" is that their own history puts that to a lie. From DOS to WindowsXP there's great enough difference, that if one was to use the same argument? Windows users never would have migrated as far as they did. So I guess they'll have to come up with another "reason" Linux has to have, for users to change over.
BTW the problem isn't so much the width of choices, but how their presented. People have the false impression that less means easier to use. Problem is answered by asking the question "Will I always be a newbie?". Real life tells us no. The way to accomedate both is by having an interface that gradually presents more and more of it's power as the user grows, and their needs change. Most interfaces seem to flirt with either end, and leave out the middle. To start:
1-Choose intelligent defaults.
2-Organize the menus along goals, while going from general to specific. Ending with the tool(s) desired.
3-Keep the overall appearance clean at all times (ask yourself:does this need to be here at this time?).
4-If a task needs to be followed in a particular sequence? Follow the same approach used in books. Subtlely guide from beginning to end.
5-Make your interface playable. By that I mean that the user can try different things without breaking anything. Remember trial and error should make the former easier, and the latter less likely.
6-If something is going to be unreversable, let the user know in a non-threatning, and non-insulting way.
7-Levels of preference tied in with experience gained. See #1 as well.
8-CLI's & GUI's can get along. Tied in with #7 one can set it so an action in one can be reflected in the other. i.e. KDE's explorer. By typing ls *.rpm the consequences are reflected in the icon view. By selecting all the jpegs in icon view, a command line is outputted that would accomplish the same.
9-If you've read this far down congradulations.
Keep in mind that Linux needs to look at the problems other OSs (not just Windows) have dealt with[1], and their implimentation. Then ask themselves. Is this the best way? Can I do better?
[1] Sidenote make certain that the problem really is a "problem", and a "common" one at that. Viruses on one and not the other for example.
What it really indicates is that Xandros is using a more recent (i.e., not otherwise commercially released) version of Crossover Office.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Okay.. let me clarify myself after spending a lengthy period of time reading the gpl carefully.
1. Everyone who has the binary and is licensed to use it is entitled to the source code(to my understanding excludes some random person stealing the binary).
2. Everyone who had a license to the original work or any derivative works of the original work also has a license for the modified version (even if it is distributed for a 99$ fee - perfectly acceptable).
3. Distributor of modified version to my understanding is not required to provide either the binary or a source to a third party (original version license holder) but if this third party happens to come across the binary somehow they have the same rights as anyone who acquired it directly from the provider of modified version.
4. A third party can acquire a license also if someone who bought the software from you distributes it to them.
5. If a third party has acquired the binary and have a license to use it they can demand the source code and the provider must provide it or they are in violation of gpl.
Now, I wonder what the implications are for a case where a third party original license holder who does not have the modified binary "steals" it from somewhere. Technically it is not even a theft since they were licensed to use the software anyway.
Why? Simple. The file manager [xandros.com] is brilliant in terms of what it does, how it looks, and how it can be incorporated with existing machines, and especially, domains. You ever wonder what Linux has been missing? Well, this is it.
...
Does anyone else here, especially those bitching the loudest, actually administer users? I don't know about you, but any tiny change will cause an uproar. A rollout of Mandrake, Redhat, or SuSE would cause numerous heart attacks where I work,
FYI, Mandrake 9.0 installation allows you to join a windows domain. After installation, any domain user will be able to log into the machine.
Then, fire up konqueror, hit the services button, and double click the Network browser, and you will be able to browse Windows/samba shares, FTP servers, web servers, and with KDE3.1, ssh servers (via kio_fish).
The only thing needed now is a true, open source Exchange-connecting email client
Await next KDE release
I know everyone's balking about the cost, the GPL source tinkering, and the rest, but from a sys admin's POV, this OS has done more in one release than Redhat did in five.
Off the backs of all the other distros, contributing none of their stuff back to the community (ever wonder how they do the windows domain thing?, they use winbind from samba, just like Mandrake).
It's a good thing they are around (provide focus to other distros), but it's not where money should be spent, it would be much better spent on a fully open-source distro.
...and it never once worked on my Thinkpad 600. I was sent 3 different versions and none of them would boot to install. I've booted from the CDROM to install Windows, Redhat, Mandrake and Debian. Now to be fair to them, Corel Linux wouldn't boot from the CD neither and Xandros is based upon that former distro. YMMV.
No. The ones that receive binaries from the original customers have the right to get the sources from those customers, not from the company that put it out originally.
What? Please back up your position with a citation from the GNU GPL or the GNU GPL FAQ.
I'll back up my position. From the GPL (my emphasis):
From the GPL FAQ:
Will I retire or break 10K?
If this is really "A system that is complete and functional as soon as you finish installing" does it still gracefully handle the power of dpkg/apt through XandrosUpdate?
From the Xandros website:
* Advanced users can direct Xandros Update to point to other Debian package repositories including the Debian GNU/Linux servers.
This is left as an exercise for the reader.
You can call kppp from the command line and tell it to connect using a certain account. you can also kill an existing connection. heck there may even be something you can do with dcop. check kppp --help from cli.